Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:17 AM

Iceland's central bank cut official interest rates by 3.5 percentage points today.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:00 AM

Perhaps it will help when they know that Britain is lending Iceland
$225 000 000?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:14 AM

Maybe our sympathy should be going to you then, CarolC :)

LOL (or we'd all cry!).

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:21 AM

None of it makes any sense to me, and I don't try to make any sense of it. It's pretty crazy from my perspective. I just try to stay out of trouble as best I can.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:18 AM

My God, the Taleban have taken over Mudcat now. Sorry CarolC, I had no idea such lunacies were in operation. So I suppose when you say "He is a kind and gentle soul," that is code for "Skarpi is one mean bastard!" (Which is the real truth of course. Just try getting that bottle of brennivín out of his hands....)

Just a grammatical detail, but a third-party reference is not the same as addressing someone directly. Maybe you are allowed that much, on a legalistic interpretation of the Contraining Order?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:14 AM

This whole thread is a classic example of how nationalism is used to turn working people against each other, taking their attention off the profit grabs of greedy currency dealers.

One of the links provided further up is to a New York Times blog suggesting that the small Icelandic economy is being targeted by (named) dealers, trying to make it crash so they can scoop up the profit.

It also suggests that this tactic was used in earlier economic crises, such as the Hong Kong financial crisis of 1917-8 and a similar attempt at the same time on the Australian dollar.

British people turning on Icelanders is like the dogs with cans tied to their tails turning on each other, while their tormentors laugh from the sidelines.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:19 PM

I have met him. I don't know him well, but the time I spent in his company is the reason I felt the need to provide verbal support here in this thread. He is a kind and gentle soul who hasn't got a mean bone in his body, and he deserves to be cut some slack under the circumstances.

I have to refer to him quaintly because I am not allowed to directly address anyone here in the Mudcat. In fact, I am skating the edge even just by saying "he" to refer to another poster, since I am not allowed to directly reference other posters either.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:10 PM

CarolC, if you knew skarpi - "the person who started this thread," as you quaintly call him - you would know that he doesn't need you to protect him or interpret his words!

It seems that Brown's comments about Iceland must have been more prominently reported in the US than in the UK, where iceland has been far from the top of the agenda. The Iceland dimension certainly does not have the legs to constitute any kind of distraction from "Brown's bluster."

And Brown's bluster turns out to have shown the US and most of Europe a way forward out of the mess. Neither Brown nor most other politicians should be taking much of the blame this time. The real problem is a failure of capitalism, or at the very least a failure of free markets. But if there was one unequivocal political error it was Hank Paulson's colossal blunder in allowing Lehman Brothers to go under.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:06 PM

No hard feeling s .
All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:18 AM

Skarpi, I apologise for the 'Cod War' comment - it was over a long time ago and we and Iceland have been good friends ever since.

I was simply trying to show you that any government will take strong measures when it feels its security (and I include financial security) is being put at risk by another country's actions, just as yours did when it felt that British fishermen were putting your own fishing industry in jeopardy.

And eanjay's right, time to let it go.

Pax
J

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

You are welcome .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:29 PM

Thank you!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM

Sure I will , no problem .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Why don't you just leave it alone now, Skarpi?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:02 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/13/iceland-banking

a view from Iceland in guardian

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

and again , no you did not start war on Iceland

but you used a Terrorist law against us , do you get that ?
thats what this is all about .

this is something you dont do to a friendly nation .

why did not the coverment of Holland use the same law against us ?
we solved that problem in in US .

but Mr Brown had to go the hard way did he not ? just to get more
votes .

why did he not just take up the bloody phone and called our PM ?

what I write comes from my heart and what I see in the TV news
in Iceland .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM

We have NOT accused Icelanders of being terrorists (even though they behaved like terrorists in trying to kill British fishermen plying their trade during the Cod Wars)

One Icelander died after British warship crashed into a coastquard ship .he was welding down in engineroom ,


He writes - Sverrir Haukur Gunnlaugsson, the Ambassador of Iceland in UK has stated "I have been an ambassador and working for the foreign ministry for 38 years and I have never experienced anything like what we went through over the last week,"

"Our phone system nearly had a meltdown and we had to deal with very angry Brits," he added.

Armed police now protects the Icelandic Embassy due to threats that have been made." and you say that you re our friends ??


like I said if the story would be true ? read my message , and who is shoutin now ?? and again the head of this thread was to get atention
of the matter , using the law against Iceland, how do you feel
when they start use this against your self .

I can tell you that we had enough problem here at home , but when
brown used the law against us to freeze us , the problem got just bigger , and we were angry , but now we are more angry .



all the best , Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

My posts in this thread are not based on what is being reported in Iceland, but are based on what is being reported here in the US. And here in the US, we are hearing a lot of unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric from Brown about Iceland.

I have never heard or read the term "fucked-off" in my life. It's not about people in Iceland being angry. It's about the thread originator being traumatized. And I say again, I don't think the words of the person who started this thread should be taken literally. I think they are meant more in a figurative sense. People in the UK are constantly saying that the people of the US are too literal-minded, but I am finding here in this thread that people in the UK are no less literal-minded than those of us here in the US.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:30 AM

I have already recaptured the frozen Sarah Lee Cakes!

Rejoice!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

Well I don't suppose he'll be losing his.
Being sensitive and caring doesn't make you a multi-billionaire, does it?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:51 AM

Taken from the link in my previous post Sir Philip Green said yesterday:

"If you're on your way home and you go past a house with a sign outside saying 'half price', you're going to knock on the door, aren't you?"

A rather unfortunate way of putting it considering the number of people losing their homes!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM

The pensions situation is a disgrace but it isn't just pensions that will suffer either. Anybody with endowment mortgages could be in for trouble as well. The few shares that ordinary members of the public own have already plummeted and now some banks have been ordered to pay no dividends on their shares. I also feel sorry for some of the small businesses and those people who are losing their homes.

However not everybody will suffer.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM

According to BBC-TV 'Breakfast' programme this morning, the boss of (I think) RBS will 'fall on his sword' today and resign. He will retire (allegedly) on a £580,000 p.a. pension (that's around a million dollars a year, for the US contingent here).

It's a hard life innit?

Meantime my already-insufficient pension fund will be plundered still further as a result of the antics of the Get-Rich-Quick Professional-Gambler-Crooks in banking and the stock market.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:57 AM

Oh sure the banks will get baled out and a few fat cats will get slapped wrists and new jobs, or decide it is time to retire to spend more time with their money.

Its the small businesses and funds that are going to get squeezed dry.

The evictions are starting already on my street.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:45 AM

I think they worked all day yesterday and all night on the nationalisation of Britain's banks. Shares in some banks have gone down but that was expected. The FTSE had risen quite a bit this morning. It has fallen back slightly since but is still ahead. The banks have been ordered to stop paying dividends to shareholders until they are in a position to pay back the public purse.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:38 AM

Stock markets worldwide are rebounding with the news of the nationalization of Britain's banks. The US exchange opens in about a half hour. We'll see...

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:26 AM

From what has been reported;

when the USA's Lehmans bank went down they extracted money from their foreign branches, leaving their overseas employees with no funds, absolutly nothing.

when the British government saw the Icelandic funds being withdrawn they used the legislation available to stop it,

reasoning - I assume - that it would be far more difficult to get it back into this country than to retain it.

Although there were assurances that individuals would be able to access their money, it gradually became apparent that many organisations, charities and councils had got considerable sums of money in accounts which had - apparently - no guarentees.

My own county council of Dorset has not got the means to pay its employees this week or month unless it obtains permission to use Government money.

That is police, fire, ambulance services, healthcare - some pretty essential people.

The air around the town is one of shock and disbelief - the mood of the people is not angry, that might come later, but at the moment it seems that they can see that they are helpless to do anything but wait to find out what can be salvaged from the mess.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:10 AM

Carol, do NOT misquote me.

I didn't say we're as fucked as Iceland. I said we're just as fucked-off with the situation. Clearly American-"English" doesn't understand the term "fucked-off" - I guess your equivalent woiuld be "pissed". "Fucked-off" = "Pissed" or, as we say it, "Pissed-off". Compre?

I say again - we're as "pissed" (or "pissed-off", or "fucked-off") about the Financial situation as Skarpi and his chums. I have personally seen the pension fund I've saved in for thirty years 'bomb', just as I'm looking to retire in a year or so, so I face a retirement of comparative poverty and hardship, but:-

We did NOT declare war on Iceland
We have NOT accused Icelanders of being terrorists (even though they behaved like terrorists in trying to kill British fishermen plying their trade during the Cod Wars)
We have NOT threatened to bomb their fuckin' embassy.

Anyone who says otherwise is either a bone-head or a plain, simple liar.

That's all Villan and I, and others like us are saying. What don't you understand about that?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:43 AM

Most of the (mis) information appears to have come from Ice News a website based in Iceland which calls itself an "international Nordic news" service.
It is in a blog format.

There is an interesting blog about Norway's rare albino moose under threat etc but all the blogs on the situation between Iceland and the UK seem to emanate from Lenka Vaiglova the 'Online Content Manager, Consulting Department of Nordic eMarketing a PR firm based in Reykjavik .


He writes - Sverrir Haukur Gunnlaugsson, the Ambassador of Iceland in UK has stated "I have been an ambassador and working for the foreign ministry for 38 years and I have never experienced anything like what we went through over the last week,"

"Our phone system nearly had a meltdown and we had to deal with very angry Brits," he added.

Armed police now protects the Icelandic Embassy due to threats that have been made."

In another blog he quotes an interview with an advisor to Margaret Thatcher which said
'Gordon Brown is trying to make this situation "his little Falkland Islands"

Now I accept that the people of Iceland are angry and face an uncertain future but it isn't the UK Government that has created this situation however the PR blogger Lenka Vaiglova wants to spin this for domestic and world consumption

It has NOT been reported either why the British feel so angry that their leading cancer care hospital, childrens' hospices essential services and the pensions of many people are under threat.

Compassion is mutual.

Icelandic folks have not been accused of being Terrorists (even if this is how the PR firm seek to gain the world's sympahy)
The only people against whom this act was implimented and anger directed are the 'criminals' that have abused the savings of inhabitants of both countries.

I also request this divisive thread be closed.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:32 AM

When the draconian provisions of the various Terrorism Acts were proposed, spin doctors were out in droves insisting that none of these would be invoked except in cases of real terrorist threat. Here is what the Home Office website says is in the act:

The measures are intended to:

- cut off terrorist funding

- ensure that government departments and agencies can collect and   share information required for countering the terrorist threat

- streamline relevant immigration procedures

- ensure the security of the nuclear and aviation industries

- improve security of dangerous substances that may be targeted/used by terrorists

- extend police powers available to relevant forces

- ensure that we can meet our European obligations in the area of police and judicial co-operation and our international obligations to counter bribery and corruption

Do you see anything there that could justify action against Icelandic economic interests?

The point isn't to do with the Iceland problem; it's that once a measure is on the statute book, all the promises made beforehand go out of the window, because they aren't part of the law, and the measures can be used for anything that is currently useful to the government.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:10 AM

No, the UK is not just as fucked as Iceland. No Western country is as fucked as Iceland is right now. Iceland is in the process of ceasing to exist as its citizens know it. They face the possibility of having to be reorganized by the IMF, and even possibly losing their currency. Their country is completely bankrupt, and no world markets will accept their currency. They are worse off than all of the other Western countries by orders of magnitude. No other Western country facing the level of disaster that Iceland is facing at this time. And they are a very small country, so they don't have the kinds of resources to help them deal with it that other countries have.

And it is about compassion. Having the compassion to cut someone some slack when their country is at the lowest point it can possibly go.

The Netherlands government was able to work out a way to solve the problem of getting their citizens' money back without all of the heated rhetoric that the government of the UK is throwing around. It's not necessary for the UK government to behave as it has been in order to solve the problem. They are using Iceland as a scapegoat in order to divert attention away from their own culpability, and I am criticizing that on humanitarian grounds.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:57 AM

Cut Skarpi some slack folks, he's a gentle soul, who speaks from his heart, he doesn't have an ounce of cynicism in his body.
All he knows is what he reads in the newspapers, and sees on Icelandic TV. Now there's as much chance of their TV admitting Iceland might be to blame, as there is of GWB admitting he knew there were no WMD's and he just wanted Iraq's oil.
We all go on the offensive when we are attacked, and Iceland feels under siege at the moment. You see the people there have as much control over their bankers as we do. Not to mention the situation vis-s-vis sub prime in the US.
Also remember that English is not his first language, so he might not always use the correct words.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:55 AM

Backwoodsman got to it before me

Please can the moderators close this thread as it is offensive to British citizens and is not factual or correct.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:53 AM

compassion thread

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:49 AM

This thread is not about compassion or anything like that Carol.

It's about Skarpi, shouting his mouth off about things that are not true.

I personally feel very sorry for anybody who loses out due to this crisis.

However, I have no time for the big fat cats who are getting massive salaries and bonuses and the people who have taken the banks down or made massive profits by manipulating the stock exchange etc etc. At the end of the day, its these people who should be brought to account.

Maybe this thread should be closed as it is offensive to British people.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:47 AM

No I'm not, I'm back - just saw CarolC's post.

Carol, why don't you understand? We're just as fucked-off as Skarpi about the Global Financial Crisis, our banks are in deep shit too, we're going to be taxed up to the gonads to pay for the stuff these crooks have been up to. But we're equally fucked-off by the crap this guy's poured out about declarations of war, accusations of terrorism, threats to bomb embassies.

Lies, lies, damnable lies.

It'd make the Pope swear!

Now I really am out.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:42 AM

Amen, Villan.
Now I'm out - I've got work to do, helping my company survive the Global Financial Meltdown. Much more sensible and practical than these people with overactive imaginations squawking on about non-existent declarations of war, non-existent accusations of terrorism, non-existent plans for the bombing of embassies etc. Must be some great shit they've got in Iceland.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:35 AM

I don't have any anti-British sentiment. I have always felt quite warmly toward the British. I do have a lot of anti-imperialist sentiment, and to the extent that I am involved in a discussion of imperialism, I also include Britain in my criticism (as well as my own country). But that is a different matter entirely.

But I must say, I am very surprised at the extreme lack of compassion that I see being demonstrated by some of the UK people posting in this thread. That is something I did not expect. For some reason, I had gotten the impression that people in the UK were much more empathetic and compassionate than what I am seeing here in this thread. Live and learn, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:18 AM

There is only one person who started this thread. All a load of bunkum and obviously done to provoke.

We have just responded Carol

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

Sorry Carol, but you have just given me the biggest laugh I've had in years.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Stu
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:02 AM

"Now I feel like the Irish; BOODY ENGLISH The history always repeat it self:"

Another quantum leap forward into the realms of ignorance and misunderstanding.

We're all going to get f*cked over by our governments and money-men, so what's the point in calling each other in this way?

Skarpi - No-one in the UK thinks anyone in Iceland is a terrorist full stop, and there's no war, unless it's against the ordinary people. If I were Icelandic, I'd worry less about foreign governments freezing assets (a pun in here shumwhere, shurley . . .) and more about bringing to book those greed-ridden moron's who put you in this position in the first place.

CarolC - put aside your usual anti-British sentiments for a moment; all our governments and industry bosses are culpable in this mess and people are jumpy because they are very worried about the future, and everyone needs to calm down a bit.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:49 AM

And the people of Iceland have good reason to feel that their economy is under siege by people from other countries...

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR1Zh_j.F83M&refer=home

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/the-north-atlantic-conspiracy/

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:39 AM

I think the thread originator is being badly misunderstood. I notice that this person's English seems to suffer quite a lot when they are under stress. I think, under the circumstances, this person ought to be given a hell of a lot of slack. Their country is being destroyed (or at least, that's how it looks to the people of that country). None of the rest of us is facing the kind of dire situation that the people of Iceland are facing.

People use word 'war' euphemistically all the time. It's pretty obvious to me that that was how it was used here in this thread, as well as a bit of biting irony. I notice that the people of the UK are not always very good at recognizing irony, themselves, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. One can wage wars that are not military in nature. One can wage economic wars as well. And I think from the perspective of the people of Iceland, it sure feels like the UK is waging a kind of economic war against them. And a war of rhetoric.

And I didn't get the impression that the thread originator said that the government of the UK threatened to bomb the embassy. It looked to me like what was said is that civilians were threatening to bomb the embassy. Civilians make bomb threats all the time, so I don't see anything implausible about the claim that threats were made about bombing the embassy. And considering the inflammatory nature of the rhetoric coming from people like Brown, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that some civilians were angry enough to make such threats.

I think the person who started this thread deserves a lot more charity and kindness than they are receiving from a lot of the people in this thread, a lot more understanding for the situation they find themself in (as well as a lot more benefit of the doubt where the possibility of misunderstanding exists).

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:10 AM

From what I've read in this thread from the thread originator, it doesn't look to me like Iceland was unwilling to pay the money back.

The thread originator has also said that Britain has declared war on Iceland, that Britain has threatened to bomb the Iceland embassy and that Britain has called the Iceland people terrorists.

He has said this based on what is being reported in Iceland. We have already come to the conclusion that a lot of what is being reported there is untrue.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:53 AM

It seems to me that The Netherlands was able to get a satisfactory agreement with Iceland for getting peoples' money back to them without having to resort to threats or invoking any drastic measures. From what I've read in this thread from the thread originator, it doesn't look to me like Iceland was unwilling to pay the money back. And yet I keep seeing angry words from UK people in this thread accusing Iceland of wanting to steal the money and even some comments calling the Icelanders crooks.

All this bluster from Brown looks like a politician trying to divert attention away from his own culpability in the problems his country now faces, and using Iceland as his scapegoat. And it looks like a lot of people in the UK are buying it.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:08 AM

not before they swap my microwave....

(pardon my hilarity! I mean seriously ....Afghanistan, Iraq... like haven't got enough problems. is it likely we'll go to war over someone nicking three quid and a bag of tomatoes?)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:39 AM

MR. BROWN HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, REPEAT AGAIN N-O-T, DECLARED WAR ON ICELAND. WE DO NOT, REPEAT NOT, REPEAT AGAIN N-O-T, REGARD ICELANDERS AS TERRORISTS - THAT'S DOPEY NEWSPAPER-BOLLOCKS, WRITTEN QUITE DELIBERATELY TO WIND UP ICELANDERS AND TO SELL NEWSPAPERS. AND THE SUGGESTION THAT WE ARE PREPARING TO BLOW UP THE ICELANDIC EMBASSY IS NOTHING SHORT OF MORONIC, THE RAVINGS OF A DEMENTED MIND.

Yes, I was shouting because there are some deaf (or stupid) people around here. Now will Joe do us a bleedin' favour and close this stupid thread.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:12 AM

>>It surprises me that the intelligent UK people here in the Mudcat are allowing Brown to distract them from the mistakes of the UK government by scapegoating Iceland.<<

I don't think so Carol. We are responding to Skarpi's comments about Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland and that we consider Iceland as terrorists.

None of which are true.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:33 PM

The cause of the problems (in every location) is a lack of sufficient regulation. But because of the size of the US economy, when the lack of sufficient regulation causes things to go bad, much of the rest of the world is impacted. And when that happens, the deficiencies in the systems in the other countries then come to the surface. But its because of the size of the US economy that whatever happens here ends up happening to some degree or another in most other places.

I asked JtS if Canada, even despite its intelligent banking regulations, would be negatively impacted by what's happening in the US, and he said that it would because the US is such a big trading partner with Canada. As they say, when the United States sneezes, Canada gets a cold.

I've seen many people at high levels scapgoating poor people here in the US. They're all Republicans trying to run away from their own voting records, though.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:30 PM

(As I understand it - The subprime meltdown is just step one in a domino chain, and the equities crash already exceeds the effect of that, because the investment world knows the further steps are on the way. Any obligation, not just mortgages, can get packaged and sold as a "derivative." This includes bonds and all debt instruments. As the economy contracts, the defaults will escalate tremendously, and the "credit default swaps", or insurance for those defaults, has no real backing to make good on the anticipated default storm.)