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Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote

olddude 15 Oct 08 - 11:26 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 15 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM
olddude 15 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM
nutty 15 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM
frogprince 15 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM
olddude 15 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Oct 08 - 03:58 PM
olddude 15 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Oct 08 - 05:04 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Oct 08 - 05:23 AM
Waddon Pete 17 Oct 08 - 05:22 AM
Will Fly 17 Oct 08 - 06:25 AM
Darowyn 17 Oct 08 - 06:56 AM
olddude 17 Oct 08 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,Neil D 17 Oct 08 - 11:53 AM
olddude 17 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Oct 08 - 08:22 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 17 Oct 08 - 10:26 PM
open mike 17 Oct 08 - 11:14 PM
olddude 18 Oct 08 - 11:09 AM
John Hardly 18 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM
GUEST 18 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM
open mike 18 Oct 08 - 11:52 AM
olddude 18 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM
olddude 18 Oct 08 - 01:00 PM
Stringsinger 19 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM
SINSULL 19 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM
olddude 19 Oct 08 - 03:39 PM
Peace 19 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM
Jeri 19 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM
olddude 19 Oct 08 - 04:18 PM
olddude 19 Oct 08 - 08:12 PM
olddude 20 Oct 08 - 05:07 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 20 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 20 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM
olddude 20 Oct 08 - 06:21 PM
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Subject: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:26 AM

Well I wanted to write a train song, it is missing something any suggestions? Very rough right now with lots of mistakes but I put it on youtube just for some feedback / suggestion help. Any feedback good or bad is most welcome, I am pretty rusty for sure
thanks much

southbound train


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

Sounds good to me the way that it is. I had trouble hearing all the words, even with the volume turned up all the way but even then, I liked the song. I was trying to figure out what the melody sounded like and then I realized that there are sections that you could probably sing Candy Man to without a lot of changes. That's good, as far as I'm concerned. If you can't hear where a song came from, then it ain't folk.

Nice guitar work, too.

No apologies needed.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM

Jerry Thank you so much.

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: nutty
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM

I thought it was great .... It's always easy to be critical of ones own creation but that was the whole package .... great song


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM

Hmm, Jerry's ears must be even further gone than mine; I had no trouble at all getting the words, and I often do now under any less than optimum conditions. Sounds sweet to me.


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

You guys are very very kind thank you. I guess I will leave it alone . I tend to revise and revise and then either make it worse of just drop the song . I do appreciate you taking the time to listen more than I can tell you

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM

sorry Joe, the guest was me, I lost my cookies again
Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:58 PM

Only a suggestion....instead of starting with the words 'Riding on..' I'd change that away from the same lyrics of 'City of
New Orleans' ..'Rocking', or 'nodding',, or 'rolling along', etc. Musically, try a soulful harmonica, in the background. That would work!
Perhaps , later, throw in a stand up bass, if so inclined...and...Good luck!.....(I tried to be as objective as I could, using the same process I use in composing, however, the music I'm presently doing is different). When I was doing strictly folk, or any style, I try to incorporate playing off the words, with the accompanying instruments, utilizing, the mood and the timber, of the lyric, in both delivery, and content....and remember, The human voice is the only instrument on the planet that pronounces words,..PRONOUNCE THE WORDS! even above 'styling' it! ..and in engineering it, it needs more 'presence'(more gain, and 'compress your guitar mike,,not too much compression..but turn up the volume), so you are right there! (It makes the listener not have to work so hard).
I hope what I've said, is taken in the spirit of constructiveness, in which it is given.


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM

Dear Guest from Sanity, thank you for the suggestions, they are most well appreciated and taken in good spirit. I think your ideas are good and I will give it a try

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

Thank you...Also, when you mike your guitar, place the mike over the wood, below, and behind the bridge, to pick up the sound of the wood resonating, not over the sound hole...try it. It will sound warmer. .and truly, all the best regards!!
Gfs


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:04 AM

olddude, (and any one else, interested), In my post above I mentioned placement of the mike, for an acoustic guitar, however, there is yet another way for a superb sound(which I have used, in studios, but didn't think to post it)...place one mike where I said before, place a second mike, over the sound hole, a little further away(six to eight inches), and run it into a second channel, and carefully mix the two, catching the higher end crispness, but not over using the volume, to make the whole of the sound 'tinny'. that way, you get a clean, crisp attack, and the warm wood sound together. If you are using a compressor,
as primarily a compressed pre-amp, use it on the other mike. This will minimize, finger squeak, and noises you may find undesirable, from your picking hand.
One more thing, for those so inclined, combine the two mikes into a mono signal, in the board, run an 'out' into a true stereo chorus, that splits the signal into two channels, going almost full right and left, for each side, and now listen to your guitar!!! If you play with it, just a little, using full chorus effect, but close to the slowest speed, you'll insist on setting up this way..forever. I use a Roland stereo chorus..and never turn it up so high, that you get that,'whooshing' sound, like an electric wash cloth. All you want, is a floating, undestinguishable ambience, of the guitar, coming from two identical amps, or if you are recording, two channels, right and left, to carry the true effect of the stereo chorus. Using a stereo chorus in mono, or one that has only one out, is a waste of time and money, and sounds stupid. None of what I posted is complicated at all,
and can be done easily, cheaply, if you do it for recording. If you are performing, live, and want that sound, the you need to get two identical amps, for the best results...or, use the stereo chorus, and use each of the outputs into a separate channel. Vocal mike, just run normally. If you have any further questions, or if I can, in any way, offer any other assistance, feel free to ask. I am 100% in supporting you, any way I can...all of you!!!!
Warmest Regards, and God Bless Your efforts,
GfS


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:23 AM

Sorry, but this one I corrected, to make more clear. Joe, you can get rid of the other one...Thank you!

olddude, (and any one else, interested), In my post above I mentioned placement of the mike, for an acoustic guitar, however, there is yet another way for a superb sound(which I have used, in studios, but didn't think to post it)...place one mike where I said before, place a second mike, over the sound hole, a little further away(six to eight inches), and run it into a second channel, and carefully mix the two, catching the higher end crispness, but not over using the volume, of the 'hole' mike. To make the entire, combined sound, mix the two together, using the 'hole' mike for your higher end. That way, you get a clean, crisp attack, and the warm wood sound together. If you are using a compressor, as primarily a compressed pre-amp, use it on the other mike. This will minimize, finger squeak, and noises you may find undesirable, from your picking hand.
   One more thing, for those so inclined, combine the two mikes into a mono signal, in the board, run an 'out' into a true stereo chorus, that splits the signal into two channels, going almost full right and left, for each side, and now listen to your guitar!!! If you play with it, just a little, using full chorus effect, but close to the slowest speed, you'll insist on setting up this way..forever. I use a Roland stereo chorus..and never turn it up so high, that you get that,'whooshing' sound, like an electric wash cloth. All you want, is a floating ambiance, with excellent presence of the guitar, coming from two identical amps,..OR.. if you are recording, two channels, right and left, to separate channels, to carry the true effect of the stereo chorus. Using a stereo chorus in mono, or one that has only one output, is a waste of time and money, and sounds stupid. None of what I posted is complicated at all, and can be done easily, cheaply, if you are doing it for recording. If you are performing, live, and want that sound, then you need to get two identical amps, for the best results...or, use the stereo chorus, and use each of the outputs into a separate channel to a STEREO P.A.. Vocal mike, just run normally. If you have any further questions, or if I can, in any way, offer any other assistance, feel free to ask. I am 100% in supporting you, any way I can...all of you!!!!
Warmest Regards, and God Bless Your efforts,
GfS


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 05:22 AM

Hello Dan,

I listened to the song and enjoyed it too. As some-one who also tries to write their own songs, I know all about the tendency to over tweak them! I agree that a soulful harmonica would add to the mix and perhaps a skilfully played fiddle in there somewhere....if you are an honest songwriter you will always want to tweak your songs and always be not quite sure it's good enough! It's the artist in you coming through! But as you sing it over, you will find you will change your own words, almost unconciously! I agree that it needs a different start...but good to listen to with an effective guitar accompaniment.

All power to your elbow.

Best wishes,

Peter


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:25 AM

Hi Dan - good song and lovely performance. I don't generally write my own stuff and I can only envy those that do. My one query was whether there might technically be a better web site for you to post your songs than YouTube. I only mention this as YT is sometimes not noted for its sound quality when processing files - and you don't have any video (yet) to accompany the audio. I manage to get what I think is just about a reasonable sound on YT, but only because I'm using reasonably good recording kit. Just a thought - and more songs please! :-)


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Darowyn
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:56 AM

I agree that you can call the song itself finished, but the recording does sound like a demo. GFS recording advice is worth following as far as recording acoustic guitar is concerned, but you don't have much excuse for "only a computer mic" when you can get good large diaphragm mics so cheaply- and you can justify it by the fact that everyone here thinks your music deserves it!
As far as arrangement goes, I'm not sure about harmonica. I'd use a Steel guitar, but that's because I play one. Whatever you added, I feel you do need a bass, and a second guitar line, capo'd up on 5 would be nice and it would add a bit of sparkle at the top end. How's you vocal harmonies? I can "hear" a nice country harmony in the chorus.
Finally, you need to investigate the thorny subject of mastering. Your final levels are low, even for an acoustic song.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 09:45 AM

You folk are so very kind. I am so shy about my songs I would write them play them at home and then never do them again . I am trying to write more and actually put them down on a recording because my daughters for years wanted me to make a CD for them. I think the suggestions were wonderful and I will do them. Right now I tend to lay the mike down attach it to my computer and just play. Listening to the youtube at home it is so quiet at times it is hard to hear. I really do need a better place, maybe put them on my server. I thank you from my heart for your kind advice and the time you took to listen.

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:53 AM

Nothing to add or suggest but I loved the song. I remember traveling on trains. I once rode an overnight express from Rome to Paris and I loved the soothing rhythm of the train powering its way across the tracks. I think you captured that rhythm quite well in your song and it makes me nostalgic. What more can one ask of a train song. Well done!


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

Wow thank you Neil, I was hoping to try and capture the movement of the train with the guitar. Funny thing there is one part that sounds like a train .. it is a semi that was screaming by my house when I was recording


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:22 PM

I love when that happens.................................(sometimes)


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:26 PM

Hey, Dan:

Back atcha. There's nothing wrong with the volume, or my ears, even if I am wet behind them. I've been having some problems with my computer, and even though I had the sound cranked up all the way, I wasn't hearing it at full volume. It sounds a lot better now that I found my problem.

The song just saounds better.

By all means, do a CD. I've been sitting around tonight, pkcking out songs that I wrote many years ago, and am having a hard time remembering the words. At least they sound fresh... like I've never heard them before. :-)

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: open mike
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:14 PM

have you tried ''my space"
actually i have not figured out how to put audio on it,
just video but lots of people have audio on thier pages

nice pickin'!


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:09 AM

Jerry
I heard through the grapevine that your songs are amazing. Can I hear one sometime?

thanks much my friend
Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

It's a really nice song. Sounds like it could have been written anywhen. And that would be my only suggestion...

I went to a songwriting workshop a couple of years ago. One of the bits of advice I heard that really stuck with me is that, as a songwriter, you don't have to EVER accept that your song is "done". Oh, at any time, you may determine that it has reached a point of "Ready for prime time"...but I've even heard really great songwriters revise their songs WAY after public debut.

(one example -- a favorite of mine, LJ Booth initially wrote his famous "Some Believe" with the word "irregardless" in it. He played it that way before a national audience. But by the time he'd recorded it, he'd corrected it.)

You have the luxury as a songwriter of keeping the song as it is -- quite satisifed with it... AND STILL rewrite it to make it into something DIFFERENT. Not "better" ..... DIFFERENT and equally good, or saying something else -- something new that the old way doesn't say it.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying, that I don't see anything wrong with your song as it stands. And I see plenty right with it as it stands. BUT...

I'd at least TRY a re-write with some of the train cliches ("lonesome whistle" "Hear the wheels", etc) taken out and replaced with purposefully RE-coined phrases. See if you can't turn it from an "anywhen" song to a "anybody, right NOW" song.


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

John
thank you for the very good suggestions. I appreciate it very very much my friend.
Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: open mike
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:52 AM

yes jerry's music is great and it is good to hear from him here again!
some of his recordings are available from http://www.folk-legacy.com


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM

open Mike
Thank you, I am on it my friend
thank you again


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:00 PM

"Get Down Home" OH MY GOD
I could only dream of having a tenth the talent that some of you folks that just gave me some advice have...

From my heart I thank you

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM

Dan, I liked your song and I am partial to this style of writing and singing.

Here's what I think might help. Why is he on the train? Is he running from the law?
If so, why would he be back the next night? Where is he going and why? Why did
he leave her?

I like the tune a lot and the finger picking style seems right to me also.

Riding the freight cars isn't what it used to be. What period does this represent?
I've done some freight car hopping and I wouldn't want to do it today.

The "bulls" were pretty mean in their day knockin' 'bos off the tops of boxcars.

With today's economy being what it is, will we go back to "bein' on the Charley?"

The style reminds me of the late great "Haywire" Mac McClintock who I had the privilege of meeting in San Pedro in the early Fifties.

Reminded of "Way Out Here" by Bob Nolan. The late Erik Darling wrote a song called
"Where You Can Still Hear the Sound of the Railroad" which was kinda' like this.
Also, the Jimmy Rodgers "Waitin' for a Train" is in this tradition.

Keep on keepin' on. It's a great style.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM

Very nice, olddude. I wouldn't change a word. The guitar does sound like the movement of a train.
Put me in mind of Utah Phillips.


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:39 PM

Stringsinger and Sinsull
Thank you so much, that really means a lot to me. I have always written songs but I have never played them for anyone, always just for my kids. I am trying now to put things out now for others to hear even though they are rough or just a work in progress. I am still very insecure with my music and still pretty shy about it. All of you folks have been very encouraging to help me get over that

Thanks again
Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM

Dan, AT LAST. Darn computers (work and home) giving me problems.

It is a darned good song, well-written and soulful, touching. Congratulations buddy. I know the guts it's taken for you to get back to your music, the effort you've put in and the work it's taken. If I could hug you right now, I would. Ironkate posted to Youtube and man, she's your biggest fan. Bravo.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM

Dan, I finally switched computers and got a chance to listen. The song sounds like it's always been there. Know what I mean? I was also blown away by how good your pickin' is gettin'!

If I ever get a decent take of something I've done, maybe I'll put it up.


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:18 PM

thank you, and Bruce you know when we first talked, I had not taken the guitar out of the case except for a strum now and then for over 14 years after I lost the feeling in my fingers. I would never have picked it up again if you had not been so encouraging to me buddy. You told me what it took for you to get back, and all the times I told you I couldn't do it anymore and you said "bulls__it" Although I cannot feel the strings since my neck operation I now can see that the fingers are starting to know where to go and the voice is getting a little stronger. I have much more work to do but I am convinced now with the support of all of you wonderful people that I should keep trying so I will

Thank you


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:12 PM

Jeri
I would love to hear your music. Love it
please do put something on. Heck it doesn't have to a finished product look how rough mine are. I will eventually get this thing smoothed out, I am going to play my banjo on another track and see how it blends ... Ron Bankley said he would add a steel guitar on it for me so eventually it may be alright with Ron's talent adding to it for sure. but I would love to hear anything from you. And the same with you other folks. Most I have heard and can only be in awe at your talents. Jerry, Bruce, Will, John, Sins, and Pete my God you guys are good. I can only hope to someday measure up in some small manner for sure. Jeri please do put your music out ok, nutty, frog, sanity, strings please I would love to hear anything you have also. What is so fun about Mudcat is the amazing talent I hear all in one place. So many artists and styles ...I never stop learning by hearing great musicians. Amazing talents all of you

Dan


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:07 PM

I put a better version on soundclick and you folks suggestion
I think it sounds better there than youtube

southbound train


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

That does sound better, Dan. Man, you play a clean machine! I hear a lot of Mississippi John in there, and you know that sounds right. I had the great honor of hearing Mississippi John do several sets over one magical week when he was at the Gaslight Cafe in Greenwich Village in the early 60's. The only thing that impressed me more than his singing and picking was the man himself. No one has had as great an effect on my music than little ol' John.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

And by the way, what's this "stuggling" stuff? I don't hear no struggling in there...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Review: Struggling with a new song I wrote
From: olddude
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:21 PM

You are too kind Jerry my friend, Mississippi John Oh my Gosh what an amazing musican, ... wow I am jealous, my goodness he could play I can only wish my friend

thank you


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