BS: 3rd Party Debates

Subject: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:38 PM

Quite interesting. The New York Times is reporting there will be a third party debate carried on C-Span, moderated by Amy Goodman of Democracy Now.

It will be carried Sunday night apparently, although the article doesn't mention times.

Sponsorship is by an organization I never heard of, called Free and Equal.org.

Will you watch?

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:43 PM

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...AND THANK YOU FOR THE HEADS UP!!!!!!! I'm tired of the frauds getting ALL the media coverage!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:16 PM

Don't mention it.

I've found some more information, for those who might be interested.

The debates will be held at Columbia University, and will be televised on C-SPAN from 8-10 pm EST.

If there are seen as a success, there may be more of these debates in the works before November 4th.

The criteria is the candidate must be on the ballot in enough states to allow them to win the minimum number of electoral votes, which is 270. Seems like a very sensible benchmark to use for entrance into any truly democratic presidential debates.

There is lots of good information to be found at:

http://www.democracynow.org

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

I don't imagine that these "3rd party" (and 4th and 5th, etc., party) candidates will be debating with/against either or both of the two "major" party candidiates ~ only amongst each other.

Hardly ideal, but I suppose you take what you can get, and hope for continued improvement next time around.

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

There will only be a few candidates, because only a few qualify based upon the criteria.

I think it says something that both Amy Goodman and Columbia University (the location sponsor) think it is important for US voters to hear a more diverse and expansive political debate, considering the precarious state of the nation.

If this is "the most important election of our lifetime" (as it has been billed so often), then one would think opening up the political discourse would have some real value.

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

Is there a related website, and is there a list of debaters yet?

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: Amos
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:24 PM

See this page. McKinney and Nader will participate, at a minimum.


A

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:16 PM

Sadly with first past the post voting, most citizens just consider anything other than the 2 faces of the US uni-'political machine' a waste of effort - in Australia, with proportional representation, upsets happen a lot, and th ebig parties' have to keep an eye out.

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:51 AM

But fortunately, in a democracy, you can work to change the "first past the post" system if you make a choice to do so, rather than just keep pulling the levers for the evil/less evil establishment candidates.

More auspicious news. Amy Goodman has just been awarded the Right Livelihood Award, also known to some as the Alternate Nobel.

Anyone who saw her trying to do her job as a grassroots journalist at the Republican National Convention can certainly attest to her personal courage in reporting. She put the entire mainstream media to shame single handedly!

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:27 AM

"fortunately, in a democracy"

The USA is a Republic, not really a 'democracy' the 'voting college system' begs that.

"you can work to change the "first past the post" system if you make a choice to do so"

There are too many powerful vested interests who will work too hard to even allow such a concept to get acceptance - the system works far too well for them at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM

So, you are one of those "can't fight city hall" sorts, are you? ;)

I agree, the system works extremely well for crooks and corrupt politicians and their party apparatchiks. However, at the moment it isn't working very well for the citizenry. That is when change becomes most possible.

There are good examples of non-partisan consensus governance here in North America. There are our Canadian examples, like Nunavut, or the US examples of many local governments and judicial systems or the Nebraska Legislature.

It is more of an education problem than anything else. Our fourth estate doesn't do a very good job educating the citizenry.

The web is changing all that though. I truly believe the system in the US, as it is today, will be quite short-lived. Change is coming, whether Joe or Jane Middle Class Partisan Voter wants it to or not.

Fifty years from now, people will look upon this era as the Dark Ages of US politics that the new system was set up to correct.

That isn't to say a new system will cure all the ills. Progress depends, however, on the will of enough people to see that it cures at least a few of the worst ills, so the patient doesn't die.

It is true, it won't be a Democrat or a Republican president that will "fix" the system. It will be a grassroots movement, like all movements for authentic political change in the US have been. Movements for political change never start from within the corrupt system--they form outside the system and exert pressure to force the changes.

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 09:57 AM

"Our fourth estate doesn't do a very good job educating the citizenry."

Which is exactly why I said that - they are OWNED by those who are manipulating the system for their own benefit. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 3rd Party Debates
From: GUEST,Caribou Carl
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:28 AM

Which is why we need the Amy Goodmans, the Fairness Doctrine, public access laws for cable, the internet, and a robust independent news and citizen journalist movement, which is currently thriving in the US.

Besides the indie news program Democracy Now, there is Free Speech TV, Indymedia, Reporters Without Borders, News University, an absolutely free online indie & citizen journalism school sponsored by the Poytner Institute (they publish Congressional Quarterly), lots of great stuff is out there.

If you still get your so-called news from mainstream media, including the online newspapers, you aren't getting the news. It really is that simple, nowadays.

Indie and citizen journalists are making great inroads against the supposed "lock" on news and information by establishment press.

And Amy Goodman is proof of that.