BS: How do we pardon thee let us count

Subject: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM

Thinking ahead I was wondering how and who will be pardoned by George Bush come January if Obama wins. If McCain wins it won't be nearly as necessay. They could pass out Fredom awards instead of pardons.

How is easy. Like the Ford pardon of Nixon a broad open ended pardon for any and all crimes and misdemeaners will give a general protection against any prosecution.

I do not know if a presidential pardon can extend to civil suits.
A lawyer would provide a great public service to clarify this question. Could Rove be sued in civil court despite a Presidential pardon?

Who will be pardoned is a very interesting queston.
Rove? Cheney? Rummy? Gonzo?

Just this morning I saw on local FOX TV, Karl Rove on stage with two other crusty old white guys when a beautiful woman dressed in a Nieman Marcus suit was allowed to walk onstage and proceed to make a citizen's arrest of Karl Rove for Treason and vote tampering.
CLASSIC!

Who else will W pardon? The list must be over 100 with private contractors biting their nails. The coing list (if McBush doesn't pull off a win) will be longer than the Clinton list, which was several pages.

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:56 AM

"..was allowed"????

I saw her being grabbed and hauled offstage and being arrested...

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM

Assuming you saw the same fox 5 broadcast...

She was allowed to walk onstage and stand beside Rove and speak before she was wrestled away.

IF you want to be so precise you have to admit while she was "grabbed" you have no knowledge if the grabber was a law official sanctioned to make an arrest.


One thing is evident, you have to dress the part to have "access"

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM

It was not on Fox...I think it was a CNN clip...she reached for Rove, but was prevented, then hustled away



so...Google shows all... clip from an ABC station

She got onstage 'somehow'....it simply took security 5-6 seconds to get to her. (I timed it)

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

She touched Rove and then Rove wriggled his shoulders in a girlish way while staring blankly foward.Bill you are one guy who can stand next to me and you still see the sky differently or not at all.


be that as it may


WHO will get a pardon and will that pardon excuse them from all civil suits too?

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM

I calls 'em like I sees 'em, Don...*grin*.. (and in this case I ran the clip 6 times to try to see what happened.

I don't think she actually touched Rove's shoulder...It looks like she opened her cuffs and reached down just as the security guy arrived and Rove gave a sort of elbow shove away...

but, yeah, he did stare into the distance


It was interesting...but not terribly impressive, except to show that 'protest' may take any form. I'd rather she'd used a cream pie like they got Bill Gates with.

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: DougR
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

I would suggest you consult Bill Clinton on this Donuel. I think he has the all time record on pardons (especially questionable ones).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:36 PM

Yes I already involced the Clinton pardons.

The Bush transition team has a database for the pardonees already.
On the outside chance that the new voter suppression laws snuck into law back in 2006 don't elect McCain Palin, even media people should start clamoring to be included before its too late.

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:45 AM

First, let me make clear that I'm not a lawyer by training. However, my work life has been spent in courts and rubbing shoulders with lawyers, and I think that for a layman I have a pretty good understanding of the law.

That said, I believe that an individual must personally witness a crime being committed at the time in order to make a valid citizen's arrest. If that is true, this was in fact only "political theater", even if she had not been hustled off.

If she indeed touched him, however fleetingly (let alone getting handcuffs on him), that's battery.

As to pardons, I'm pretty sure that a pardon goes only to criminal charges or potential charges, and does not affect any civil claims or remedies. I stand to be corrected if wrong.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:03 PM

I will accept the same level of criticsm of pardons that Bush makes as was provided in regards to Clinton, unless Bush gives out MORE pardons than Clinton did.

Otherwise, I will suspect that we have more that a few people here that beleive in double standards.

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:38 PM

Two subjects going here: (1) Presidential pardons for criminal convictions in federal courts (or DC or military tribunals); and, (2) Executive immunity from civil actions. Presidents have absolute immunity from civil lawsuits for damages if the alleged wrongdoing arises out of the execution of official duties.

Source: google: Nixon v Fitzgerald.

Obama and Biden have both said they will investigate the propriety of criminal investigations.

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: GUEST,MarkS (on the road)
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:25 PM

Let me suggest two

Ramos
Campion

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: quokka
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:26 PM

Wouldn't a person have to be charged with something before they could get a pardon?

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:57 AM

Not in the USA...

Subject: RE: BS: How do we pardon thee let us count
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:48 AM

From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:45 AM

First, let me make clear that I'm not a lawyer by training. However, my work life has been spent in courts and rubbing shoulders with lawyers, and I think that for a layman I have a pretty good understanding of the law.

I've told him a thousand times to leave that trench coat at home, and quit exposing himself in public!!