BS: Music Science question

Subject: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM

Once again I am acting as an advisor/muse for my composer friend who is finishing his 3rd symphony
that is themed as The wind of the Universe.

The work is dedicated to the Science Institute south of Tapei which is known as the city of wind.

The 1st movement is the inception of space time and the birth of the Universe and life. The 2nd is Quantum. 3rd is Earthly wind and the 4th is man's scientific and emotional overview of the multiverse.

Uniting scientific aspects of physics and the music is important to the work.

Things we have tried to portray sucessfully so far has been the: virtual quantum particles, quantum leaps, evolution of life and extinctions, the current background radiation of the big bang found to be Bflat 42 octaves below middle C, radiation, string theory and mathmatical truisms.

The question I pose to you is if you can think of any questions or observations of the Universe which you think could be suggested in such a symphony.
Edits and changes are now being done along with the help of a famous 88 year old orchestrator.

Be it a leit motif, various insrumental effects (like wind sounds from harmonic dello strings) or a mathmatical relationship or a truth aout the
Universe you think is important, I would welcome any suggestions
you may have or other works that have a similar intent we could hear.

____________________________________________________________________



If I learn to upload to youtube I could even post segments of the first or second movement in midi version. The piece has very lyrical moments as well as intricate rhythmic and tonal experiments.

My friend's last piano concerto had its first performance at the Kennedy center and the violin concerto before that was first heard in Taiwan, so this symphony will be performed by an Orchestra within about a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:59 AM

End the piece with a representation of a super-massive black hole?

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:10 PM

So this is what they mean by string theory?**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:12 PM

How about the "butterfly in Peru" example for Chaos Theory? It could be represented by a motif hidden among the rest of the instrumentation initially, but gathering pace, moving along from instrument to instrument, to finally topple the main tune and take over.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:13 PM

Fretted string theory?

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM

Both good suggestions.

I am also hoping Amos and John from Kansas to weigh in.

Bill, the end of the Universe may be nothing more than evaporated black holes, darkness and a total entropy of energy.

George, The first movement is much like that but the motif is along the lines of a bird song which comes in, evolves, goes extinct, and returns with new changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Zen
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM

I think gravity and gravitational forces (as yet not fully understood) would be powerful themes I would include. Also quantum entanglement of paired but possible very distant particles (maybe represented by pairs of distant instruments?).

Zen

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:37 PM

Use various instruments to interweave Fibonacci series or other fractal steps. These could also be formed into repeating motifs which could "represent" entanglement.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:39 PM

"...the end of the Universe may be nothing more than evaporated black holes, darkness and a total entropy of energy."

But *IF* energy does evaporate from black holes, as theorized by Hawking, then perhaps it will again coalesce into clumps, then into larger clumps, then become heated and eventually become stars and begin a new & different Universe.
If 'energy' is only a collection of particles doing something, even at quantum levels, then it seems to me that rising ^above quantum levels is always an option.

(Mind you, my ideas are gleaned from TV programs and intution)

So...perhaps the piece, on paper, could end in coda, dal segno al fine .............................

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 04:40 PM

This does not sound very promising - grandiose and superficial. You get better music by starting with a smaller set of ideas that you actually understand. Two pieces that come to mind are Toru Takemitsu's "From Me Flows What You Call Time", Morris Pert's "The Ultimate Decay" and Reginald Smith Brindle's "Andromeda M31" (the last is particularly good, an evocation of a vast cloud of stars by means of a vast cloud of notes - but it's for solo flute, so it uses both austerely minimal resources and fantastic virtuosity).

Lots of composers have done this sort of thing, I was listening to one of Scriabin's attempts last night. Cage's "Atlas Eclipticalis", most of Xenakis's early work, Charles Dodge's "Earth's Magnetic Field", Messiaen's birdsong music. The original of the genre is probably Haydn's "The Creation" and "The Seasons", which between them cover pretty much the same ground as your pal's project only he did it more than 200 years ago. What counts is how much musical imagination you add to the extramusical ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 05:00 PM

What??? No 12 bar??? That ain't no symphony, that's baloney...

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

Solar wind? Sunspots? Meteorites/comets, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Rowan
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 06:09 PM

'Emergent constructs rise from an undifferentiated background' seems to be a notion that resonates across various science disciplines.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Slag
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM

Begin with all the house lights off. At the precise moment (only you know when) every light in the place comes on (throw a few arc lights in there too) and the orchestra hits one gigantic cacaphonous note with emphasis on the basso profundo which never entirely goes away thru the whole piece. I mean, really shake the rafters!   The basso profundo becomes basso ostinato, a note that slowly changes pitch and volume and always lurks in the background regardless of key changes.

Ray Lynch has some interesting ideas in his piece "Tiny Geometries" that you might find inspirational. Whatever. I leave the middle to you entirely. The end? Mankind? The last note or flourish of notes might be on the smallest triangles or finger Zils. The house lights dim throughout and then completely wink out sometime after the last wave fades beyond human hearing. Science can be very dramatic, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 10:27 PM

Slag, you've got a lot of balls.

I will look for tiny geometries!


Amos, I had the exact same thought. Also fractal geometries can be heard with suggested animals in a rainforest beneath a canopy.
The Quantum movement is already written and feels like virtual particles to me with an anticipatory randomness in which the mind tries to find a pattern but instead gets intriguingly swept up in the search.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:52 PM

Was meaning to get back to you, sooner. We may have more in common, than an appreciation of Steven Wright!! Is your piece already written, and you're looking for ideas how to present it??..or visual arrangements??...or creative recording 'tricks'...(that can be done live as well??)..or ideas for...umm, like topics??......or.....?

I regret that I'm swamped at this very moment, but get back to me..that is, if you think I may be a little more, than a smart-ass!..I might surprise you~~~~~~~~~!

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:41 AM

Lightning - plasma balls, sprites, blue jets and elves.

I'm not making this up, you know.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:19 AM

Thank you Jack I will begin googling the pieces you were so kind to recommend.


Sawz
Its not my piece, I'm just an adivisor explaining some of the aspects of cosmology to the composer and track down usable musical ideas to expand upon.

My piece on the evolution of religion is backed up for 4 years without much ambition to help it out. It does have a Slag over the top qulaity to it ;)

Foolstroupe
When I was very young I used to see these rapidly moving electric beings zipping around tree trunks. Adults said they did not see them but they would scare me enough I would go inside. As an adult I saw 2 orbs of llight able to slowly pass through brick walls.
Not being a pilot I have never seen sprites and blue jets with my own eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:34 AM

I found actual sounds from space here
http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/space-audio/sounds/

the audio called Earth chorus I have heard in the woods when the frogs sing.

more
http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/space-audio/

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM

Space sounds like birds and crikets but Saturn sounds like Halloween.

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:50 AM

You can take those sounds..(if you want to use them in your piece) and if they seem ummm..unworkable...if you speed them up, and sample them, you can play them on a keyboard, and make musical notes(every doubling the speed raises them up an octave)..instead of using 'notes' or sounds unrecognizable to the conscious mind. The ears are the most direct path to the central nervous system..and what you put in your ears, directly affects one's behavior. If we indeed, came from somewhere, before here, (energy cannot be created, nor destroyed, only transferred from one state to another)..the central nervous system can carry the sounds to the brain, which in turn, 'recognizes' them or not..and create the image, in one's understanding....Did I define that, clearly enough?? Can go into it further, if you'd like, later...
It is like when we hear something we know to be a deep truth, and we recognize it to be true....it takes the form of 'remembering'...where do we 'remember' it from?????? How deep or back do you want to go???.Either in time or space??..It is accessible!

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:05 PM

Amazing...the first time you have posted something to which I pretty much agree, GfS!

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:52 PM

Maybe it should occur to you, that maybe you're a rather disagreeable person.......*wink*

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:55 AM

Oh yes - there's Bartel's Music Diagrams - I actually have an old LP (70s or thereabouts) of this (Sun Music)...

Subject: RE: BS: Music Science question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:14 PM

Does the piece, in question, use synthesizers, or not?