 sj |
||
|
||
Preference or Snobbish?
|
|
|
Subject: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:06 PM Is it Music preference or just snobbery if a performance is well sung and well played that it is not liked for other reasons?I will suggest a few examples and I expect you may come up with more. Would you not like an Irish tune played by someone who is not Irish ? Would you enjoy an Irish Song if sung by an American with an American accent or even just a couple of words that has wrong pronunciation? Do you enjoy American Country Music sung with a false accent ? Should American Fiddle music only be played on a fiddle? Do you enjoy a Opera singer singing Folk Music? Should a Copper Song be only enjoyed if sung with a Sussex accent? Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries? I would be interested in your comments. Al |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM Can't say I like opera singers' versions of folk songs as a rule, but apart from that, no problems. All depends on what it sounds like. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: dick greenhaus Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:24 PM Whatever works |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:24 PM Interesting you should pick that one out McGrath of Harlow. Thanks. Alan |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Big Mick Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:25 PM Interesting idea for a thread, Alan, which I think will raise many voices and much dissent. I do find your questions limiting though, as they are much too specific. As to me, it is my practice to let the song tell me whether I should attempt to sing it in the dialect of origin or not. I feel as though if I am going to attempt to sing in dialect, then I need study that dialect very carefully in order to do it justice. I find folks that castigate others for trying to do this to be boorish. That is not to say that there are not folks that do a very poor job, but I don't like the implication that there is something wrong in trying to honor the tradition a song comes from enough to attempt to sing it appropriately. On the other hand, when I hear folks sing songs that clearly have not invested the time, and are doing a very poor job, it bothers me. Interesting in that I sing a song which has a French verse. It is about the role Grose Ile, and the brave French Canadians, played as a quarantine station during the Great Hunger. Peter T and I, on our ramble home, were discussing it, and I asked him to help me to get the pronounciation correct. This led to a discussion as to whether I wanted to sing as a Frenchman would, or someone from Quebec would. I struggled with this, as the Parisian dialect sang better (from my perspective), but the Quebec would be more true to the song. I still haven't resolved the issue in my mind. I completely reject (as you might guess) the idea that songs should only be sung by those from that country. My land is a land of many immigrants. I am the descendant of those immigrants and desire to sing the songs of tradition of my ancestors. I have every bit as much right to sing them, maybe more so, as anyone. It is about honoring the land from which my family sprang. As to instrumentation, it is about the tune. It matters not a bit that it is an American Fiddle tune, or any other. If you hear a tune that you think will sound great, and entertain your audience, on your instrument, have at it. You can bet your last tuppence that the tune as you hear it today, many times originated somewhere other than the land which it is associated with, and was played on other instruments. As to Opera singers doing folk.... why not? If it could be done in a way that appeals to the audience one is trying to reach, it should be done. Might not be my cuppa, but ....... This one will surely spark some great debate. All the best, Mick |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:26 PM The reason for these questions Dick is that for some even if it works,some reject it Al |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:36 PM Thanks Big Mick for your interesting reply.My point of view is that I am totally for all the points raised as you are Mick, but some out there do not agree.You and I will be interested in the replies.I have played French music for many years so I would be the last person to be a critic of exploration of other countries music. I will now sit back and see how this develops. I just hope I havn't started a pub fight and walked out whilst it's in progress. Alan |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Mr Fox Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:42 PM Would you not like an Irish tune played by someone who is not Irish ? No, I don't mind who sings it (much). Would you enjoy an Irish Song if sung by an American with an American accent or even just a couple of words that has wrong pronunciation? Yep. Do you enjoy American Country Music sung with a false accent ? I don't enjoy American Country Music at all. Should American Fiddle music only be played on a fiddle? Don't see why. Do you enjoy a Opera singer singing Folk Music? Depends. I like Vaughan Williams' arrangements of folk music, which is much the same thing. Should a Copper Song be only enjoyed if sung with a Sussex accent? Don't be silly. Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries? Of course not. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:08 PM Of course it depends on the Opera Singer. Here's Count John McCormack singing Linden Lea. He knew how to put a folk songs across alright. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:13 PM should American Fiddle music only be played on a fiddle? absolutely not, it always sounds better when played on a flatpicked guitar imo. but opera singers should always refrain from attempting to sing folk music. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:16 PM Alan, just what are you really upset about that you decided to post a whole string of leading questions with unstated and rather paranoid presuppositions? We can well do without yet another "The Folk Mafia Is Out To Get Me" thread. BTW, among opera singers, listen to Andreas Scholl singing folk. He really understands it. (Sorry, but the sainted Kathleen Ferrier was crap at it, completely unlistenable today). |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Declan Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:19 PM I'd be generally in the if it works it works camp but - I don't generally like opera singers trying traditional songs if they apply rounded vowels in English to the songs (as they sometimes tend to do). I can think of a few occasions when I heard this when it hasn't worked for me - doesn't mean it never would. I've heard people from various other countries singing Irish songs and sometimes the pronuncuation has been very bad. Doesn't mean it doesn't work but it also doesn't mean I wouldn't approach the singer afterwards to let them know how they might pronounce the words better. I'd like to think that this would be in an attempt to be helpful rather than snobbery but who knows. Generally speaking I'd prefer to hear singers sing a song in their own accent than to try to put on the accent of the originating country. I've heard some fairly awful attempts to do the latter and it rarely works well. Having said that I know I uncosciously sing some American or Scotish songs in those accents. Sometimes it sounds better to me that way. A good tune should sound well on any instrument if played properly. However some tunes are difficult to play on another instrument - some keys are difficult to play on certain instruments. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Leadfingers Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:27 PM There was a lass named Jana Heller who was American , but in UK and 'doing' the clubs with a mix of songs , some her own . I couldnt pin down why some of her songs appealed to me and others didnt , till a good mate pointed out that SOME of what she did (Well written , well performed) was actually Acoustic Rock which is NOT My thing at all - Other songs were in the Folk Idiom , which IS My Bag !So you cant generalise about what works , and what doesnt , as , with ALL Music , it depends on the Listener as much as on the artiste ! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:36 PM I'd enjoy it if I enjoyed it. I don't care who sings the song or plays it. No song is worth anything to me if the person doesn't make it his own, anyway. If they do, I enjoy the song and the musician on their own merits. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:59 PM well if you don't like it, you don't like it. we all rationalise what we don't like. And its obviously never going to be a valid reason to stop singing for whoever's singing. say the listener is a snob, or an unkempt savage, or an ignoramus - if that soothes you. But more important - if he don't like you, screw him! don't let him be the one who decides what you are going to do, and you go ahead and do your thing. I think this is the only sensible view. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Bernard Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:17 PM Well, I made the transition from operatic/classical singing to folk. I was a high tenor with the Hallé choir for a while, and once sang under the baton of the late Sir John Barbirolli in York Minster. I'm doing support for Chris While and Julie Matthews on Friday 7th November at Maghull (UK), so someone must think what I do is acceptable...! One advantage it gave me was the ability to project without a PA system even in large halls... We all know what we like, and what we don't like - and that our preferences can be quite different from anyone else's. That's what makes the folking world go round!! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Art Thieme Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:35 PM |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Leadfingers Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM What we like is 'Good Music' - What we dont like , (IF we are at all sensible) we avoid without calling it BAD music ! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: dick greenhaus Date: 02 Nov 08 - 11:27 PM I'd like to point out that, in the movie "Songcatcher", the young ballad singer is, in fact, an opera singer. And the grandmotherly type was played by a professional comedienne. As I said, whatever works. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Bert Date: 02 Nov 08 - 11:41 PM Good comment Art!!! I agree with Dick on this one, Whatever works. What I can't stand is classical composers who get hold of a folk dance tune and bugger it up so's you can't dance to it. Nothing more frustrating than listening to a symphony orchestra playing a dance that you know and messing up the timing. What often doesn't work (Llangollen organizers take note) is choirs who try to sing folk songs that sound better performed solo. But generally, if anyone tries to sing a folk song, then all the best to them. Thanks for the effort at least. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Escapee Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:15 AM If music from other countries was only performed by people from those countries, Americans would be a quiet lot. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Gurney Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:34 AM I had an Irish pal who didn't like non-irish singers singing irish songs. Doesn't bother me, I am non-irish. I will remark that some Irish singers make everything they sing sound Irish! Very much so. At least one former folksinger is a successful light opera singer. She was a successful folksinger, too. And no, I've never heard an opera singer singing folksongs to my taste, but they enunciate so clearly that they are easy to get the words from! (In pre-Mudcat days it was sometimes difficult to get the words.) I can sum up by saying the performance is more important to me than the ethnicity of the performer, but I do know people who differ from this position, and I respect their opinion, but I don't share it. And sometimes it amuses me to tease them. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:21 AM Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Jack Campin - PM Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:16 PM BTW, among opera singers, listen to Andreas Scholl singing folk. He really understands it. You mean like This , Jack ? Chacun a son gout, but it's not my tankard of glühwein ... |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:50 AM "Would you not like an Irish tune played by someone who is not Irish ?" Why not, if they make a good job of it? Would you enjoy an Irish Song if sung by an American with an American accent or even just a couple of words that has wrong pronunciation? However technically well a singer is performing a song, this never manages to convince me that they are into it - even an odd 'oirish' or 'mid-Atlantic word or phrase can jar. Do you enjoy American Country Music sung with a false accent ? Nope - sure don't pardner. Should American Fiddle music only be played on a fiddle? Why, if it transfers well enough? Do you enjoy a Opera singer singing Folk Music? Yes - as long as they don't pretend that the end product is folk music - Folk Songs of the Auvergne (is this the way this is spelt?) Should a Copper Song be only enjoyed if sung with a Sussex accent? Why - most/all of the Copper repertoire can be found elsewhere in the British Isles? Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries? Depends on how well researched and performed it is. American Stan Scott does a wonderful job on Bengali music - but he did study under masters of the art such as Kali Das Gupta. In the end it boils down to belief and conviction. It is the job of the singer to convince the listener that he believes what the song is saying - can't really see how he/she can do so by adopting an accent that is not their own - unless they have mastered it to the extent that is becomes their second language. Most attempts at an American or 'Oirish' accent I have heard are incredibly inept and don't belong anywhere in America or Ireland - and sound like it. Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works PC Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:52 AM Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries? Aren't some of these presuppositions leaning towards racism? I dont care where a performer comes from - what matters is the end result. If I like it - I like it! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Tangledwood Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:06 AM "Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries?" A large percentage of the Australian population would have to give up singing if only allowed to do so in Pitinjarra, Yolgnu, Gumatj etc |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: s&r Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:29 AM The Andreas Scholl link IMO is spoiled more by the inserted 'H' than anything. My-y with two syllables and no H sounds better than My-Hi. Any singer should be able to sing two notes on one vowel sound without extra consonants. IMO. Stu |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:36 AM 'Do you enjoy American Country Music sung with a false accent ? Nope - sure don't pardner.' jack hudson born in alvaston derbyshire was born to sing americana, surely as much pavarotti was born to sing opera. Deep resonant and god given, his voice is a glory of the English folk revival every bit as beautiful and significant as Fred Jordan's voice, or Martin carthy's guitar or john kirkpatrick's squeezebox. god forgive the dj's who never played him and the fetival organisers who never booked him. I never shall. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aee4QQ9SDc0 When people like jack and I were kids - we had regional accents and middle class teachers made us moderate them. One bastard used to say to me, 'Oh whittle! We can't understand a single word you say, stand up in the hall and try and speak out to everybody and try to ENUNCIATE!'. Nowadays we get lectures from middle class people telling us that its our lack of an English accent that makes us insignificant as artists. usually from types who live in places where they drink mineral water and read the Financial times. you can't win with the middle classes. whatever they do is spiffing and important and whatever we try to express is bollocks. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Wolfhound person Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:54 AM "the sainted Kathleen Ferrier was crap at it" - Jack C Oh thank goodness, someone else who thinks this. I've tried, but I just don't like it - and it's heresy to say so in public round here. "Blow the wind southerly" gives me the heaves. Paws |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Will Fly Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:03 AM Kathleen Ferrier, who was a down-to-earth lass from the Lake District - not at all posh or snobbish - was great at singing lieder. However, I used to hear her singing "Blow The Wind Southerly" regularly on the radio in the '50s, and hated it. I still hate it, and it makes me cringe as well. It's nearly as bad as Kiri Te Kanawa and José Carreras trying to sing "South Pacific". They have fantastic voices, but they just don't bring the "wherewithal" to the show tunes. Compare Mary Martin to KTK singing "I'm Gonna Wash That Man Right Out Of My Hair". QED. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:11 AM Can't do YouTube at the moment so that link was lost on me - maybe Scholl screws up sometimes. He didn't when I heard him. (Whereas I think I've heard all of Ferrier's folk recordings and can't stand a single one of them - egomaniac over-expression all the way through). : What I can't stand is classical composers who get hold of a folk dance tune : and bugger it up so's you can't dance to it. It's pretty common for folk bands (especially of the "Celtic" persuasion) to do that too. The difference is that the classical composer isn't pretending to write functional music or to be simply part of the tradition - the folkdance tune is raw material, transformed into something else entirely. One kind of classical music that did that a lot was pibroch. Some pibrochs are variation sets on enormously slowed-down and rhythmically twisted versions of dance tunes. No way could anybody dance to the result. Are you saying those pieces shouldn't exist? |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:39 AM Millions of people really like Kathleen Ferrier singing that song. Why is anything that is accessible to non card carrying folkies is so sick making. Judged from how often it appeared on two way family favourites - the song seemed to have significance to a lot of service personnel who were separated from family and home. That recording of the unusual contralto voice was something to stop you in your tracks, it wound its way into the national psyche for many years. Do you really see a time when the street will be thronged with people singing Lovely Joan or All Things are Quite silent? When is folk music going to meet the folk? |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: GUEST,Kevin Parker Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:55 AM Hi Al Just love the Jack Hudson track. That's a hell of a voice! Sounds like its been carved from oak. Going to listen to more of Jack's stuff. cheers KP |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:41 AM Black Hawk the presuppositions are based on some recent or past comments they are in no way racist and were never intended to be. I am interested in peoples likes and dislikes and if if possible the reasons why they dislike a recording is it purely because of music preference or are they just snobbish about their music, or possibly just pronunciation differences as has been mentioned.Gurney's friend for example does not like anyone other than Irish singing his country's songs,this is not a rare example.Some musicians and singers outside of Ireland do possibly more research into singing and playing of Irish music than many of the Irish that perform it and the same goes for music from other countries. I must admit that I much preferred The Three Tenors singing Opera than their later follow up singing popular songs,but that was only my preference. The Copper song example I used because there are a few singers that have no accent off stage, but adopt one whilst singing.Why I am not sure,perhaps they feel it is a more authentic sound. Al |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Will Fly Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:58 AM I can see where you're coming from, Alan. Depending on what is sung, singers in the folk idiom (or any other idiom, for that matter), do have to make choices sometimes as to what puts the song across in the best way. For example, I like to sing Gus Elen's "A Nice Quiet Day", which is a very funny music-hall song about a working-class cockney's day out with his family all over London. Part of the humour and a large part of the atmosphere of this song is Elen's very Dickensian cockney accent and the pronunciation of certain words. I'm no cockney, but it would not sound as effective if sung in any other way than Elen's - so I have to assume the accent and intonation as far as I can. Which I think I've managed to do. If I sing music-hall songs by, say, George Formby Senior, then I can do them in my more-or-less native Lancashire - and make 'em sound as they should. For the same reasons. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: GUEST,Black Hawk on Works PC Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:07 AM 'they are in no way racist and were never intended to be' Maybe they were not intended to be but certain ones are :- 'Would you not like an Irish tune played by someone who is not Irish ?' 'Should music of other countries only be performed or recorded by musicians from those countries?' These are both based on race / nationality rather than musical ability, likes / dislikes. I accept they were not intended but that doesnt alter the fact. Following the thread concerning a comment about Dick Miles, I find these comments more racist than a throwaway remark by a female attendee. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM Very clever Black Hawk you quote two sentences of my suggestions without putting in the introduction that proceeded them. I suggest you look elsewhere for a racist if that's what you are on the look out for. Al |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: GUEST,Black Hawk on Works PC Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM Sorry Alan - the introduction 'Is it Music preference or just snobbery if a performance is well sung and well played that it is not liked for other reasons?I will suggest a few examples and I expect you may come up with more.' I do not see as altering my view. Music preference or snobbery has nothing to do with nationality. I might not like a scottish singer singing an English song because his accent sounds wrong to me. That is preference. To not like him because he is a Scot is racist. I do not want to get into a 'slanging match' here. Just stating my opinion which I have as much right to express as yourself. Just one example. (not folk I know) Lonnie Donegan took a lot of American originated material, Tom Dooley, Lost John, John Henry, Big Grand Coulee Dam etc. & popularised a new style of music – skiffle. Some I like, some I don't but I believe we would have missed out on a mass of enjoyment if he had been banned from singing them because he was British. And I have not called you racist just pointed out that those 2 suggestions were ill-phrased! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:56 AM I like neither opera nor jazz but don't conider it bad music. I just don't understand it and that is purely down to me. At the folk club, blues do not to too much for me and I find Irish sesions get a bit too much for me after a while. Scottish or English dance however I could listen too for hours while I know it leaves a lot of people cold. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same! I loved the Andreas Scholl clip for all the wrong reasons. I was in fits of giggles already when I realised the falsetto bits were just like the Black Adder theme music from the Elisabethan series. Then when he pronounces 'pony' as 'ponny' I had visions of an old Steptoe Sketch where Albert kept pronoucing Polo Ponies as Polloponnies. I know I shouldn't laugh as I guess, by his sname, English is not his first language but I am an evil bastard at times... :-D Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Brian Peters Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:47 AM Musicians are always up for a challenge, and often find themselves enjoying 'foreign' music so much that they feel compelled to have a crack at it. Where would the world's musical culture be if everyone had stuck strictly to the music of their immediate neighbourhood? No Tex-Mex (European polkas meet Latin harmonies and rhythms), to name but one. 200-year-old English manuscripts tell us that musicians back then were more than happy to play Scots, Irish and European tunes, a bit of classical, or whatever took their fancy. One of Sharon Shannon's best-known pieces is a Tex-mex tune she learned from a Quebecois band. It's true that there are endless examples of people making a terrible hash of music they've never taken the trouble to understand. Style is an important part of traditional music - it's not just dots on a page that anyone can sight-read. On the other hand, there are people who are not part of, say, the Irish diaspora who have studied that music sufficiently closely to play it well; English fiddlers and banjo players who have gone deeply into the North American old-timey tradition and jam as equals with the masters in the Appalachians; one of the best Cajun accordeon players I've come across is a Dutchman - Wim Nachtigall. If you've been raised in a particular musical culture you have a head start, which is why many people like to hear Irish music played by Irish musicians. But that doesn't mean that 'outsiders' can't do it just as well, if they've immersed themselves in it. Playing music on the 'wrong' instrument is another kind of challenge. I'm sure Alan enjoys hearing Jody Kruskal play Appalachian fiddle tunes on anglo-concertina, for instance, and the accordeon, now such an integral part of Cajun music, was once an interloper. Quite apart from all of the above, 'doing it wrong', even horribly inappropriately, is one of the ways music evolves. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: George Papavgeris Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:01 PM One needs to recognise that the work that has gone into creating a tune or song (whether by "anon" or by a known composer), and the work that goes into performing it are both creative efforts. The end result will be a product of both, and both need to work for the result to be pleasing. Though the performer, coming later chronologically, has the final word in many ways, and can bugger up a decent piece, or elevate a mediocre one. It would be wrong to hamstring any performer with rules about how to, and how not to, perform a piece. They must be given free reign in applying their own creativity to it, and they ought to be judged by the result, not by its adherence to rules. By the way, I would include "dansability" (is there such a word?) in the rules that can be ignored, if the performer so chooses. Why not take a jig and slow it down in order to create a different effect? Or take a morris tune and speed it up, if this works musically? Nobody is obliged to like the result, one is free to judge its merits according to their personal taste - and no one's taste can be an absolute measure. Majority taste decides commercial success, sure, but individual taste is enough to praise a performance. Crossovers can be interesting. Pipe tunes are often played to great advantage on a hurdy-gurdy, and fiddle tunes on a tinwhistle. I asked Vicki Swan to play on smallpipes a riff written for (Greek) bouzouki, and you know what - it worked! I love some of the older North-Eastern (UK) songs, like "Oh, you are a mucky kid", but can't do them in their "home" accent or style; no worries, I found that the Epirus singing style suits them also. And so on. Perhaps in this melting pot process we sacrifice some sort of purity, one might argue. I would counter that with the many benefits that the new blends can offer, the surprising new combinations and the creation of new, previously impossible to construct, music. As for the original versions, they need not disappear, in this age of multiple media choices for their preservation. But even as we preserve the old (and I am all for it), let's also allow the freedom of expression to move us to new creative vistas. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Will Fly Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:05 PM I was just imagining Leon Redbone's "She Ain't Rose" being sung in a George Formby style and accent - works for me! |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:09 PM When we were on Rhodes some years ago we attended a touristy 'traditional' Greek do. I asked the bazouki player if he spoke English. 'Not realy' he replied 'Ahm frum Bradfud'... :D |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: George Papavgeris Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:16 PM Yes, I heard they can't grow them fast enough on Rhodes, and have resorted to importing... 8-) |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:30 PM When opera singers sing folk songs it often seems that their priority is the musical sound rather than the sense of the song. That can apply to other singers, of course. That's why it often doesn't work too well. ........................................ As has been pointed out, typically when Irish singers sing songs from other countries, they tend to make them sound Irish, and I think that's generally the right way to deal with songs from other countries. What is a bit daft is when you have a song like that, which in fact comes from some other tradition, but is sung in Ireland, and they put on an Irish accent for the occasion. For example, Hard Times. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: Alan Day Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:49 PM George you mention danceability (another spelling mistake?)there are some of course that will not enjoy a tune unless it is strict tempo,but one of the joys of playing a musical instrument is to play about with rhythms as you suggest. Thanks for the laugh D Al |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:46 PM "What is a bit daft is when you have a song like that, which in fact comes from some other tradition, but is sung in Ireland, and they put on an Irish accent for the occasion. For example, Hard Times. Reading that through it comes across as possibly ambiguous. What I mean is, when someone who is not Irish puts on an Irish accent to sing a song that isn't in fact Irish. ......................... I'm imagining George Formby's Leaning on a Lamp post being sung in a voice from London or Ireland or Australia, and it sounds fine. |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: GUEST,folk_fan Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM Here's another question to expand on this topic: Should a performer be judged based on what he or she does in his or her personal life? Should that determine whether or not you enjoy their music? |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: VirginiaTam Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:45 PM "When opera singers sing folk songs it often seems that their priority is the musical sound rather than the sense of the song. That can apply to other singers, of course." How does one who has sung soprano in church choirs most of adult life, lose that formal almost polished sound and adopt a more folk sound? I tend to pitch songs lower and lower which makes my voice a bit more folkie and unfortunately gravelly. But I do this out of fear that if I start to high, I will end up sounding like I did singing hymns and solos in church Any tips would be gratefully apprecitated. Should I start a new thread with this question or is it a viable tangent of the current one? |
|
Subject: RE: Preference or Snobbish? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:56 PM I don't think it's the polished sound that's the problem, nothing wrong with clean notes and clear articulation. It's the things that make it sound as if the meaning of the words is secondary, technical tricks I imagine (I don't know enough about what they are doing), changing vowels to give a fuller sound and that kind of thing. And there are characteristics of traditional singing which I believe are seen as unacceptable by classical teachers, who fail to recognise that they may be very important tools in communicating the sense of a song. It's not a matter of accents as such - if you've got a Virginia accent, sing the songs in a Virginia accent. |
| Share Thread: |