BS: Teenager stoned: A Story, which beggars belief

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:11 PM

No one is blaming Muslims for this atrocity.

I'm afraid that if you just hunt around for a few minutes on the Internet you will indeed find people who go in doing for exactly that, and who are using this story in that way.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:06 PM

Very sad. A thirteen year old child is first raped then humiliated with accusdations of adultery and then murdered. And this thread has turned into "poor Carol being misunderstood".
Jimmyt - you can't win. Don't even try.
In my experience, the only people who hold sacred the rule of silence on PMs are the ones who insist on spitting rabid venom in them. I have said publicly that I do not choose to abide by this "rule". No where has Max said it is a rule.

As to this thread, re-read Jacqui's post:
"'But an even bigger crime and tragedy is when people generalize the crimes of some people and hold an entire group responsible for them.'

I'm sorry Carol, but you are doing the same thing when you say I wouldn't say nobody listens, but certainly the Muslim-hating West and the perpetrators of crimes like that one do not listen.. I am part of the west but I don't hate Muslims and nor do the majority of the people that I know. I hate injustice and cruelty wherever it arises and wish that I had the courage to do more than just feel dismayed when things like this happen."

Whine all you want, Carol. No one is blaming Muslims for this atrocity. The thugs who committed it are at fault. That is the theme through this entire thread.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:00 PM

defending the absolute dregs of society

It read to me as if she was defending ordinary decent Muslims from being blamed for this atrocity, and from the assumption that they are not as appalled and disgusted by it as anyone else.

Often enough when it appears that a terrible crime against some innocent has been carried out by a Black person, or by a Jewish person, this has been used as a way of stirring up hatred and violence against Blacks or Jews in general. And people objecting to that have indeed been accused of having no regard for the original victim, and have been accused of "defending the absolute dregs of society".

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:50 PM

I guess I missed the point. I didn't gather that there was any "thinking" required to just feel for this poor girl, her family, the evil animals that did this, and that is it. No thinking, no solutions obvious or offered. Some things do not have obvious solutions, and except when you read between the lines that I would just nuke the Muslims. Let me know when you get this all worked out.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:03 PM

Sorry if I got that wrong, jimmyt. Are you going to slap their wrists and tell them not to do it again? But perhaps if you have no interest in how these things happen, you also have no interest in looking for answers? Anyway, do share you thinking, because you've shown no evidence of any thinking so far.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:56 AM

Thank you, Peter, for being able to read between the lines. You have quite an ability. Most people have to actually read words and evaluate, but you, genius, can tell my thoughts simply by reading between the lines. Damn, where can I get this level of training?

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:51 AM

Donuel's post reminds me of a perfectly expressed observation that "the line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man."
I have seen those words attributed to Solzhenitsyn, in which case I think they must be from "Full Circle," but I have never tracked them down since seeing the quote used in isolation.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:44 AM

Who fed you that bizarre alphabet WLD?! I'm afraid the rest of that post lacked your usual coherence, but the broad thrust was clear enough and it was surely based it on some misreadings?

Could you give any examples of CarolC's "ferocious illiberality" in this thread, for instance, or show where she got stuck into anyone for recoiling in horror from the Somalia atrocity? I think when you look you will find that she went only for those who attacked her because she challenged (in perfectly reasonable terms) a sweeping generalisation by Bee.

But what marvellously thought-provoking contributions from jimmyt! By reading between the lines, I begin to see his answer: nuke the muslims!!! Carol C, I'm not here often enough to know what, if anything, lies behind the hostility evident in this thread, but (again) I salute your patience in fending off some woefully misguided criticisms.

[Thanks Big Mick, for tidying up my previous post and for the generous response.]

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:27 AM

When we do this to people in the USA we do it by military tribunal or political trial.

This fatal flaw in human character is not limited to one race, one nation, one religion, it lurks in every human being deep in the primitive region of our mind which is still as as reptilian aggression.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:22 AM

Well, I am gonna do it again! I was just told that this the most serious breach of etiquette there is and now no one will ever trust me again. Sorry, Carol, I promise not to violate your silly rule ever again. I can see that this is significant in certain occasions, but again, give me a break! You spend your time on here defending the absolute dregs of society, complaining that life isn't fair, and generally griping about everything and all the sudden, I HAVE DONE THE IMPARDONABLE SIN? If this is the case, and if I am to be chastised by this community for such a petty bit of nothing, then I guess it's time I get the hell out of here, since I don't fit in anyway. I have tried to make friends, I am damn sure I have gone the extra mile time after time trying to find some moderate middle ground to build bridges rather than walls, but honestly I am really getting tired of the whole thing. Don't send me any more PMS, just on the chance I may turn them over to the CIA.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

Where is it written that this is a no no? Is their a code of ethics for this forum that I am not aware of? You said this. All I did was say what you said. If this keeps up I am gonna ask for my classring back! Lighten up, Carol.

If you want to think I am not an honest man, I guess that's ok. It is pretty meritless based on the last couple threads when apparently your opinion of me has dropped. I can live with that. I personally get more out of life trying to make things better one personal contact at a time than continually taking a contrarian approach to anything anyone says. If this makes you happy, go for it. I bet it doesn't though. Have a great day.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:37 AM

I don't think jurisprudence is their strong point.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM

I see that someone has chosen to post the contents of a PRIVATE MESSAGE in the open forum.

That says far more about that person than it does about me, and shows that that person has no honor whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM

Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC - PM
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:26 AM

How do we know that Islamic leaders do not speak out and condemn it? One thing I've definitely noticed about claims like that one is that they are usually not true. Usually Islamic leaders have spoken and continue to speak out against it, but nobody has bothered to notice that they have.


This is what I said. It's right there for anyone to see. People can make up any lies they want, but that doesn't make them true.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:58 AM

The thing that I cannot understand is that this girl was not married and was at school but was found guilty of adultery. Stoning people to death is wrong, whatever the circumstances, but if a country does have laws which allow this then she should not have even been sentenced to it anyway.

Last year a teenage girl was stoned to death by a mob (no court involved) and people filmed it on mobile phones and that again beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:24 AM

AMEN, welittledrummer! my sentiments exactly. I chose to speak in less direct words to Carol, but instead of doing a little introspection, she chose to pm me and spout more venom, questioning the fact that she once thought ,"I was an honest man, but she can now see she was wrong." I really don't care to try to support my honesty in this forum, albiet I think it will stand the test of time quite well. SOrry you apparently have downgraded my stock, Carol, but life goes on... for us. Not the poor little girl that the thread was originally about.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:16 AM

No I haven't.   I said that people shouldn't make assumptions about whether or not Muslim leaders have spoken out against what was done to that 13 year old girl. People invariably make the accusation that Muslims and Muslim leaders don't speak out against the terrible things that some Muslims do, and this is a horrendous libel. And one that has the result of spreading hate.

That some of the people in this thread have chosen to dishonestly try to make what I said into something other than what I said is the real abuse. It always happens that way, not just with this situation. People have so much hatred and prejucice that they have not examined, when someone points out that among the more than a billion Muslims in the world, there are many, many good people, those who hate Muslims transfer that hate onto me. I see it as being no different than being called a "N*gger lover". That is the abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:03 AM

maybe so carol, but I think I would charge you with having a sortt of ferocious illiberality.

This dogged insistence that we are nice guys under the toga. It reminds me of the worst excesses of the 1950's Alphabet of Trades that every schoolkid in those years got issued with. We were assured that little Bombo, the pygmy in the Congo and Tooktu the Eskimo in his igloo and Jock on his sheep farm in Australia, and somebody else picking cocoa beans for cadburys somewhere else - well nothing divided us. We were all brothers.

After an education like that, it was quite a shock when I started teaching in Birmingham in the 1960's to find that a hell of a lot divided us.

And sometimes there are dramatic and monstrous illustrations, like the Rushdie case, and this terrible case.

If you keep on ignoring what is under your nose. Railing against those who do. If you don't take cognizance. One day it will punch you right on the hooter.

'No one in this thread is defending the people who killed that girl.'

No but you sure are getting stuck into the ones who have recoiled in horror and charged them with spreading hate. You have, in short, abused your fellow mudcatters.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 10:07 PM

No one in this thread is defending the people who killed that girl. Anybody who says otherwise is simply lying.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:43 PM

No one is defending the people responsible for this - but it's wrong to jump to conclusions about who they were.

What I mean is, it's not clear if it's a case of a brutal regime using terror as a way of maintaining control, or of a fanatical mob.

To take jimmyt's parallel with the Crucifixion, there's a difference between seeing it as the act of a brutal occupying regime, with the collusion of some collaborators, or as the work of "the Jews".

A horrible thing like this killing should provide an occasion for people to come together - the truth is, it is as detestable to Muslims as it is to Christians or Jews or atheists.

But it gets used to divide instead. There are people who would seek to use this horrible murder as a way of generating hatred against Muslims as a whole. Just try hunting around on the Internet and it takes no or than a few seconds to find websites where it is being used in precisely that way.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:04 PM

The right and wrong of it is black and white, jimmyt. Not a single person would try to defend the people.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: jimmyt
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:46 PM

what a bunch of cry-baby bullshit. A little girl DIED! a painful miserable death! SHe did NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS. End of story! The rest is, in my opinion, pure drivel, and if you find yourself trying to defend the people and if necessary, the culture that performed this heinous act, may God forgive you for your insensitivity. I bet the men who nailed Jesus to the cross wished they had some of you folks defending them! "But they were just following orders!" "At least they didn't use dull nails!" etc. sorry, this makes me sick to my stomach.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: heric
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:58 PM

The incident is clearly too momentous for any of us to grasp.

We are each of us little Atticus Finch wannabe's, but I do not think that we have the mental ability to put ourselves into that event.

As hard as I try to imagine myself standing firm, I think that maybe I could take a bullet for that little girl. I'm pretty certain that I could not join her in being stoned to death amidst that mob.

Once you have lived in such a moment, whether in horror and failure, or in ignorant, beastly glee– then where would you be – emotionally, morally? Your future conduct and intentions in life? It is incomprehensible.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:30 PM

Well said Carol - I don't always agree with your feelings but ....to quote......
I'd rather die for speaking out,
than to live and be silent.
Fan Zhongyan, 988-1052

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:24 PM

I notice the subject of "agendas" has come up again. Nobody is in any position to tell me what my agenda is. My record is perfectly consistent. I have never participated in public shows of horror, because (as I have said to someone in a PM just now) it feels unseemly to me. It feels a bit vulture like to me, and it feels no more appropriate for me to do that than it would be to brag about giving to charity.

Nobody is in a position to tell me what is in my heart and what I am feeling and anyone who thinks they are in such a position is has a very dark agenda of their own.

I will always speak up when I see hate being spread. Always. If some people don't like that, too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:18 PM

Fair enough, Peter. But I guess I just flat don't understand the detachment from the little girl, to go immediately to something else. As far as I am concerned, this is not about Islam. It is about the death of a little girl. Fundamentalists, of any stripe (religious, political, or anything else that fits) are the problem. I guess my intensity is what causes this, but all I can feel in my mind is the fear and suffering of this little one. It bothers me that the thread has turned into yet another contest for someone to turn from the real issue to their own agenda.

But I note the validity of your comments, and am giving them much thought.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:45 PM

The problem is not so much about religion as about culture. But it is surely beyond argument that some of the leading religions have contributed to a world in which many cultures treat women as second-class citizens at best. The preachings of St Paul, which resulted ultimately in a Catholic hierarchy from which women are disbarred; the law imposed by America's oil-rich buddy Saudi Arabia whereby women are banned from driving; the unchecked and largely unchallenged cutting off - without anaesthetic - of female genitalia in even relatively developed African states such as Kenya.... All these iniquities contribute to a world in which rape victims are stoned to death.

Without question Islam has a lot to answer for, and artbrooks needs to understand that the Taliban is not one jot less misguided because of what happened in Somalia. What can be said for Islam is that it is not alone. However Carol C's point is perfectly valid: many muslims challenge the extremes of islamic fundamentalism, just as any religion embraces a spectrum of perspectives. For that reason Richard Bridge's point is not quite fair. Few churches (the Catholic church is the obvious exception) can even attempt to speak with one voice. Who speaks for the Jews? Not the JWC, according to very many Jews. Likewise it is impossible for Islam to take a "unanimous" position on anything.

Big Mick's revulsion is fine. But does he really want a thread in which we all try to outdo each other for revulsion? He goes for capital letters, but I could html my words into 144point. Would that make me the winner?

It's not unreasonable for some of us, at least, to dwell a little bit on how such atrocities are possible in the 21st century. And sweeping condemnations of people en masse, 1,000 at a time, really does not help. I do accept that most of those who attended the stoning were there to see what in their view was justice being done, notwithstanding that a protest was violently supressed. The question is, how do entire communities of people descend to such levels of depravity?

It is usually done by intensive conditioning and brainwashing, aimed at instilling an unsahakeable conviction that the victims are sub-human. The Tutus in Rwanda, for instance, were "cockroaches" and this message from the Interhamwe was so incessant and pervasive, blaring out from every radio for many, many weeks, that Hutus actually started to believe the rhetoric. How else were they going to be persuaded to start splitting the heads of their long-term friends and neighbours?

Well, the debasement of women has been going on worldwide for centuries, so we should not wonder if in many cultures some of it sticks.

Oh, and as it is apparently obligatory, let me say for the record that I am sickened beyond words by the Somalia incident.

Subject: RE: BS: A Story, which beggars belief
From: C. Ham
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:18 PM

Why couldn't you simply say ,Little Hawk was in error?

Because his post was perfectly consistent with the traditional anti-Semitism that culminated in the Holocaust (which included the genocidal murder of many of my relatives).

That kind of anti-Semitism is directly predicated on pointing out that Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah or that the New Testament supercedes the Torah.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:29 PM

Religions do adjust these things, over time. That goes for Islam as well.

As I suggested earlier, in terms of analogies with "Christian" denominations, maybe it's best to see these guys as more or less equivalent to the Aryan Nation.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: kendall
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:20 PM

Why couldn't you simply say ,Little Hawk was in error?

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: C. Ham
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:54 PM

The Jews (as a religious community) never accepted Jesus as a true prophet of God and do not include the New Testament in their teachings. Therefore it appears to me that the Jews are the one group among those 3 great religions who could, if they so desired, stone people without clearly violating their own stated religious beliefs and the teachings they claim to follow!

The evolution of Judaic law did not end with the five books of the Torah (or what Christians call the Old Testament). They continued to evolve through the Talmud and through jurisprudence through the centuries.

Stoning, in biblical Judaism, was a punishment carried out in specific circumstances, in a proscribed manner (not by mobs), after an evolved criminal justice process.

Stoning, under any circumstances, was explicitly banned in Jewish law after the destruction of the Second Temple nearly 2,000 years ago.

Little Hawk's statement is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: open mike
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 01:35 PM

how is it that the 3 rapists are not the ones who were stoned here?
That would seem to be the only just solution ... how sad.

and her father tried to help. what a frightening situation when the
only ones you can plea for help are those who caused the harm in the first place.

reading about these killings and mutilations is churning my stomach.
what a vicious world we live in.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 11:01 AM

The "cb's" don't have anyone defending them. Not in this thread anyway. It's all the innocent Muslims who are not "cb's" who are being defended in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM

When I was supply teaching I met this other supply teacher fershly back from Riyadh and he had just witnessed a stoning. He told the kids and their parents got him sacked. the cb's don't really need ANYONE defending them - they have all the exits covered,

I wonder if Gordon brought the subject up on his recent jaunt, in between begging for loot.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: GUEST,Bye Bye
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:27 AM

I bet the Provisional IRA did it too Keith, and only for the British army half of the women in Ireland would of had a tear brought to their eye.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:25 AM

Greg Stephens is right.
This is not my thread title and I resent it being changed to a more inflamatory one. I did not intend it to become a debate on Muslim practices - and I regret, but can not help the fact that it has become one. I would have preferred that issue - or the issues of the way Muslims are seen to have been debated elsewhere.

I was simply stunned by the bestiality of this mob killing. This sort of killing has taken place in most ages in many different societies. The awful fact that it has happened so recently reminds us of the awful potential which lies in this animal, which we call the human being. I would have preferred us to concentrate on that phenomena and how to do something about it.

Nobody wants to use this as a brush to tar all Muslims with. However, if you feel that is an issue, I would be happier if it were debated elsewhere. I would also politely request that my original thread title be restored: "A Story, which beggars belief".

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM

I see Muslims speaking out against the stoning in the comments section of that Al Jazeera article.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:14 AM

Al Jazeera report of this incident.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:57 AM

Kitty Genovese, Kendall. I remember it like it was yesterday. She was attacked, knifed, beaten and her screams were ignored. She got away once and rang doorbells but still no one would help or even call the police.


The bible requires stoning. If I remember correctly, Moses had two men stoned to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath.

As I see it, this was not a religious killing. The sheik in power used this girl to tighten his hold on the already terrified population. I would bet that many of the thousand in attendance went home and vomited at the horror and their own inability to stop it. They also prayed to Allah to protect them and their children from a similar fate.

If there is any consolation, he too will die violently.


Where is baby bush on this? Shouldn't we be invading Somalia to protect the people from this dictator? They have oil, don't they?

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:20 AM

Forgot to mention...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to stand aside. Especially not as long as Muslims have taken on a status of less than human in my own country. In this country, people make death threats against a presidential candidate because they think he is a Muslim. This is unacceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:18 AM

I have already posted a link to a website that lists names of Muslim leaders who speak out against stoning. They are working to get all stoning stopped, not just this one case. And I have already posted information from that website which says that stoning is not in the Koran.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:06 AM

CarolC. Could you make a blue clicky thing to guide us to muslim websites that condemn this latest Islamic attrocity? I have tried to find such sites but have failed.

The Muslim Council of Great Britain are as silent as always on such matters. You can check it out for yourself if you like.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:05 AM

interesting thread.

I think the most interesting aspect is of course Carol's interventions, and how pissed off they have got everybody.

the thing is, that there are all sorts of ghastly things in the old scriptures of every religion. And they seized are upon with relish by the complete bastards (lets refer to them henceforth as nondenominational cb's).

The cb's are always well organised and powerful. Look at their anti-gay lobby within the Christian (and Islamic) religion. Now theres a scripture seized upon with no other aim in view than to inflict misery on some fellow human beings.

I think Carol, you should stand aside. It can only do good that the human beings of the Islamic world see that the cb's have to be faced down for the future of their own religion.

Trying to moderate the resonable anger of the people on mudcat at this outrage - really does take one back to the great days of the IRA bombing campaigns - oh yeh! we blew up a pub full of innocent people! well you did something rotten last week.

there really is no excuse for acting like a twat - sorry a cb.

we have to try harder as a species.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: kendall
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:02 AM

Seems to me that the bottom line has little to do with religion, but much more to do with men who are worse than animals.

Remember that incident in New York city when that bastard raped and murdered a woman in public in broad daylight? Groups of people passing by did nothing.I dare say his religion or hers had damn little to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: GUEST,Justin Urquart
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:40 AM

I don't fully understand their culture, so the rest of you should do the same. BUTT OUT OF IT.

Subject: RE: BS: 13 year old girl stoned to death
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:14 AM

"When American forces bombed a Pakistani village, you wouldn't have titled a thread "Christians kill Muslims" would you?"

You would if it was done in the name of Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims stone 13 year old girl to death
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:13 AM

The title is mine. I like provocative titles. It gets people thinking. And the title doesn't lie. Under Sharia law, you can stone people to death. Mohammed sanctions it in the Koran. The people who stoned this girl to death were Muslims. They did it in the name of their religion.

I do think, however, they went outside their own law to do this in order to impose their own agenda; but if the girl had been older, had committed the "crimes" that she had been accused of, would that make her stoning acceptable? You can bet your life that there are some "progressives", who go to extraordinary lengths to prove their liberal credentials, who would find some argument to excuse it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims stone 13 year old girl to death
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:58 AM

Yes, the thread title has been changed to a highly charged, provocative style. When American forces bombed a Pakistani village, you wouldn't have titled a thread "Christians kill Muslims" would you (despite the large preponderance of Christians in the American army compared tp, say , the British army)? In fact, the circumstances surrounding this suggest strongly that the rapists were supporters of a local warlord, and that killing the girl was mainly to warn others not to try to take action against his mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims stone 13 year old girl to death
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:48 AM

I would like to object very strongly to the retitling of this threwad(caused by combining two threads, I suppose). It makes it appear that alanabit started a thread with this very provocative title.And I don't believe he did so, this isn't his style. I think this is his thread with somebody else's title.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims stone 13 year old girl to death
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:40 AM

What George said is exactly how I reacted to the story. Wait 'til the Mail gets hold of it though.