BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?

Subject: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:22 PM

The right wing high ups are trashing Sarah Palin. Is it her fault that she didn't know that Africa is a continent, not a country? Is it her fault that she didn't know that South Africa is a country in Africa? Or that North America has three countries? Or that she couldn't name them? That the Vice President does not run the Senate?
Come to think of it, yes I guess she is to blame.
How in the name of common sense did she convince herself that she was qualified to be VP? She's number than Dan Quayle!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:24 PM

"number" - well, it gets cold in Alaska.

I don't know about "sorry" - I think we should feel grateful for the part she played in this result.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:26 PM

We all choose what we will put attention on. She chose pageants.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM

Kevin has it right.   The most important thing Obama had to do to win was to unify the Hillary voters behind him--many of whom had threatened to sit home--or even vote for McCain.

Enter Sarah. Not exactly what the Hillary voters were looking for.

The rest is now history.

We are forever indebted to you, Gov. Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:29 PM

Yeah, I think we are. Ironic, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:31 PM

I don't think the "Palin in 2012" campaign will go very far. I suspect that, politically, she's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:08 PM

It's also interesting that she may well not feel the same way. And, according to a very well-argued article I just read, that is why she will definitely NOT try to take over from Stevens in the Senate.

If she has any appeal to anybody, it's as an outsider. Alaska governor, OK. Senator, definitely not OK.

Besides, in the Senate she might have to learn to construct a coherent sentence--with only one or two "y' betcha"s per sentence.

She is being counselled to stay in Alaska, make sure the natural gas pipeline goes through, and write a best-seller--on any topic. (Sounds like ghost-writers will be in demand).

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:46 PM

Hugh Hefner might give her a call. He usually does at times like this.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: John O'L
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:12 PM

Speaking of gratitude and irony, would Obama have been elected president without eight years of Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:14 PM

John - In my opinion, probably not!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:25 PM

They picked her.
They should have vetted her.
They should not be blaming her now.
I think she is naive and was chosen by sexists who thought
any woman would do. Shame on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:33 PM

"without 8 years of Bush"---that's pointless speculation.

It is certainly true that it's the combination of his 2004 speech and his early opposition to the planned Iraq war which put him on the political map.

But you could just as easily say that it 's only Hillary's self-destructive behavior which made Obama's nomination possible. She had everything going for her--then threw it away by alienating the anti-war wing of the Democratic party---by stubbornly refusing to admit she was wrong in authorizing Bush in 2002 to use force against Iraq.

In the 2008 election the man and the moment met--but Obama and his team also brought insights which would be very useful anytime--from harnessing the power of the Web to bring in voters who felt powerless up to now, to understanding how the particular system of the Democratic primaries worked--especially the value of caucuses. And a lot more.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Celtaddict
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:40 AM

She has certainly had well over her fifteen minutes of fame in the world press. She apparently did very well as the mayor of Wasilla (pop. about 7,000). I expect we will be seeing and hearing from her for some time yet, but if the Republicans are serious in wishing to groom her for the national stage, they have some major work to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:17 AM

Palin was a piss poor choice for VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:00 AM

In deciding what to feel about her we should bear in mind (if she doesn't shoot the bear first) the repeated stories about her vindictiveness in and from high school, the occasional glimpses of it even while campaigning ("I'll find out who said that") and that we maybe able toobserve it in action now that she is back to being a big frog in a small pond.

I'm surprised by Swazaw's post above. I thought he liked her and her ilk (that's ilk, not elk, she's probably shoot one of those too).

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:08 AM

SARAH IN 2012
SHE HAS THE EXPERIENCE
SHE CAN IDENTIFY THE SHINOLA

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,McGee
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:03 AM

simple answer: NO She is hubris personified. Thank the gods she was unmasked by Tina Fey, Katie Couric, Charlie Gibson and finally two comedians from Québec (Merci!) before she could do too much damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: kendall
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:27 AM

Arrogance and ignorance; what a combo! Fits her to a T. Her and Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:42 AM

Well I can see she would be an asset to the opposition in 2012.

I think many of us were left wondering what kind of a place Alaska must be to choose someone that dumb, and then for everybody to elect her. Do they drink a lot?

I refuse to believe there isn't someone more suitable within the state, within either of the two parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:47 AM

Ahhh... after I listened to her speak a few times and heard a bit about her, I figured McCain had made the right choice, perhaps the only choice.

Put yourself in the pic (pun intended). The call comes and John says, "Please. I am begging you to be my running mate." Your reply, not wanting to waste your time or trash your political career might be along the lines of: "Do you REALLY think I am that stunned?"... click

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:16 AM

Sorry for her? Why, what outrageous fortune has she suffered? She's back in Wasilla, no doubt hailed as the hockey mom who slugged it out with the best, she and her family have a new wardrobe (several items gone missing, I read) and a book deal would not surprise me. She is ignorant and deluded enough to believe that it does not matter and that she has something that people will look for in the 2012 elections. She is also vindictive (Richard is right). So - sorry for her? No way.

But I am also with Alice in that I believe SP has been a pawn, and those that picked her in the first place deserve to be outed for the conniving, manipulative sexists that they are. What on earth were they thinking? Did they really believe the public would swallow this and not see the ploy behind it?

Sarah is damned by her own behaviour and thinking. Those who picked her should be damned also, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:00 AM

I'm a Scot and I'm a Communist/nationalst anyway I feel sorry for Palin, but I just hope that one day she will in the whitehouse. Oh and by the way, it was a Hamilton that burnt the orginal whitehouse down and so they had to paint it white.

Tom Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:43 AM

The fact of the matter is, the media began to go after Sarah Palin the minute the brought McCains poll numbers up even an above Obama's. The were feeling the election slipping away from them and they were desperate.
                Once the financial meltdown started, McCain's fortunes sank like a stone, but in the interests of keeping him down, the media kept after Palin.
                What they did to her was embarrassing for her, but I don't think she'll be such an easy target next time, and she might be of a mind to get even.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:05 AM

well if she doesn't get even, she can take it out on a moose.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:11 AM

My vote's in for the Moose

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:29 AM

She's gettin' a bum rap from the Repubs...

She ougtta get Ted Staevens Senate seat after the Senate boot him, learn up so geography and head to Washington in some 6 inch spike heels!!!

Yazzir, yazzir, yazzir...

Now that ***is*** a plan...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:33 AM

Yeah, I think that's what she should do too. Though I'd skip the geography lesson and just learn to avoid answer questions from buffoons who have it in for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:36 AM

I'm also wondering what the rebuff will be doing to her faith, after all did she not believe it was God's will that the Republicans should be elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:39 AM

SHE's the buffoon. And a corrupt one, at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:40 AM

She did, so it must have been the devil's doing. But what does that say about the opposition?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:49 AM

I can't see why anybody needs to feel all angry and vindictive about her. She's history, and quite an entertaining part of history. I can't see the Republicans picking her as a Presidential candidate next time, and if they did, Obama would walk it.

As for all the stuff about how thick she is - I suspect she's quite as sharp as the run of politicians, she just hasn't picked up some of the tricks of the trade, to go along with the very effective ones she has picked up.

But even when she's done that, I think she'd find it very hard to broaden her appeal the way a candidate would need to, at the same time as holding on to the people who love her most.

Two days in and we're talking about future elections. Enough of that!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:55 AM

Yes, I agree with everything you say, McGrath, especially the last part. One of the really broken aspects of the American election process is, the minute one election ends, everyone starts planning for the next one.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:56 AM

I do not feel sorry for Palin because she chose to put herself on an international stage. She doesn't know geography and her attending four or five colleges before she graduated does not make her a world traveler or much of any kind of traveler. If she reads books, they are obviously not the kind of books that provide any understanding of culture outside her own state. If McCain was the one who picked her hoping to get the women's vote and the small town vote, this is another example of faulty judgment. There is no way she would get the Hillary vote and he already had small towns in the South locked up. As far as I am concerned Palin's comment after Obama won the Democratic nomination, a comment made in a public place, "So Sambo beat the bitch" makes her unfit for any public office much less Vice-President.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:01 AM

Palin showed that she did not understand geography - nor science, history, the constitution, the functions of federal branches of government...
Her college studies were dismally poor. Her focus was (American) sports and wanting to report sports on television.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:08 AM

Seems like the Palin approach was more to smear Obama, then offer any meaningful governing ideas/concepts herself. To me, she showed more "fluff-entertainment" than real content throughout her campaign. She will likely go down in political history as a blip in an otherwise boring MacCain campaign. However, she may be well remembered for her "entertainment" value.
As to the current media (and republican insider) assessment of her, "when you are in the smear business, don't cry when some of it is thrown back at you".

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:11 AM

Kendall, I am not sure. I'll have to look up some good answers and get back to you.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:21 AM

Crow is what you'll be eating in 2012!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:41 AM

According to CBS news last night - McCains people had to inform Sarah that Africa is a continent - not a country.

If we're eating crow in 2012 it will be because Sarah has shot them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:48 AM

Rig:

That is laughable, man.

If the changes initiated between now and 2012 are such as to impose a shift back to the right in 2012, it would not be "eating crow" for those of us who pushed America a bit to the left this election.

Sarah--who reportedly was also unsure about the difference between Africa and SOuth Africa-- is not a figure on the world scene. She is a cartoon on the TV mindsets of a small portion of the country's viewers, more like SpongeBob SquarePants and a lot less like Nelson Mandela or Al Gore. Your snarling defence of ignorance is a sorry thing to see.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:56 AM

He's just enjoyin' rattlin' your cages, Amos. Why let it get to you? Just ignore him. That's what us chimps do in a similar circumstance.

As fer Sarah Palin, hey, she added some real neat entertainment to the election and she helped McCain lose it at the same time. Give the lady the respect she deserves, I say! We're all in her debt. Ook! Ook! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:01 PM

Amos - There are obviously people inside the McCain campaign who really have it in for Sarah Palin. Frankly, I don't really relish the idea of having to defend her, but I think a lot of this stuff is really over the top.
                      In addition to that, the election is over. The unemployment figures that came out this morning are the highest in 14 years. Surely the American public has more to worry about than one of the losing candidates confusing the Republic of South Africa with the continent of Africa.
                      Dan Quayle never came back, maybe Sarah Palin is made of stiffer stuff. I think she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:04 PM

Did she really say that?? The Sambo comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:05 PM

"Sambo beat the bitch"? Did she really say that????

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:10 PM

There was a claim reported by Charley James at the L A Progressive that a waitress in Wasilla overheard her say that to the others at the table where she was serving. I tried to find confirmation of it, but never could. The waitress was never named.

Snopes.com says it is "undetermined" whether the "Sambo beat the bitch" remark is true or false.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:18 PM

I doubt that we will ever know if Sarah Palin said that or if it was made up by someone to damage her campaign. Either way is entirely possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:28 PM

I don't like Sarah Palin, but I doubt if she would be foolish enough to say something like that in public. She is savvy politician in some ways. If a comment like that were proven it would be virtual political suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:47 PM

"Two Mules for Sister Sarah"?

Nope, one elk will do thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:00 PM

Calamity Jane?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: kendall
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM

The republican party and Sarah herself is what sunk her. When she started rambling along on a subject of which she knew nothing it became obvious to anyone that she is an ignoramus. Her own mouth did it, not the media.
Any 8th grader would know the questions she flubbed. All of them are on tape and if she is silly enough to run again, her opposition will play them over and over. She will die in the primaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:29 PM

Sarah Palin's appeal is to the know-nothing "base" electorate that the GOP (correctly) claims as their own. Her ignorance of elementary-school civics and geography is not going to hurt her one little bit with that constituency, nor will her snide attitude towards the more educated and sophisticated among her fellow Americans (those of us who do not fit her definition of "real" Americans).

For that matter, whether or not the reports of the "Sambo" remark are true or not, that won't hurt her among most of her following, either.

Her future in the Republican party depends upon the direction taken by that party over the next few years.

If the US successfully makes a transition to a whole new post-fossil-fuel economy, with job creation and economic growth based upon manufacturing of renewable-energy technology, a revived fuel-efficient auto industry, etc., there should be room for a pro-business conservative party that is no longer wedded to oil interests and does not need to be anti-intellectual.

A GOP advancing the principles of, say, T. Boone Pickens ~ who advocates revolutionary changes in energy technology for purely economic reasons ~ could easily emerge as the opposition to a more altruistic save-the-planet group following the message of Al Gore.

In a smart new 12st-century Republican party like that, Palin would indeed have no future.

However, I'm not sure we can count on the GOP correctly reading the handwriting on the wall and adopting to a "new-age" reality. The big business of hate-talk radio and Faux News has too much at stake, and is too well entrenched, to go away quickly and quietly. If there's no one else in the Republican Party willing and able to shape a whole new direction and set of policies, the extreme right wing is going to hang on for dear life as a slowly shrinking minority in control of a once-great American institution, taking the nation's more thoughtful school of conservatism down with them. And Ms Palin is as likely as anyone, if not moreso, to be the leader of that lemming's march to the sea.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:49 PM

It's easy enough for a savvy politician to turn weaknesses like those mentioned into strengths, and wrongfoot the interviewer. That's what I meant by tricks of the trade.

For example asked about what Supreme Court decisions she disagreed with, it would have been easy enough to turn the conversation to the way the Supreme Court perversely backed the slave system for nearly a century.

The confusion about Africa she could have turned into a trope about how most people use the term "America" to refer to USA, so there's nothing wrong with using the term "Africa" to refer to the Union of South Africa, as a reflection of that great nation's importance etc etc.

As for not reading newspapers and journals, all she'd have needed to do was talk all 21st century about how the way to keep informed these days isn't print, it's the Internet.

Politicians with a bit of practice can do that kind of thing standing on their head.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:58 PM

"Any 8th grader would know the questions she flubbed. All of them are on tape and if she is silly enough to run again, her opposition will play them over and over."



                Maybe the right wing didn't play the demonstration of Joe Biden's ignorance of history over and over enough, because he'll be taking the oath of office on Jan. 20th.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:03 PM

Rig:

I don't mean to slander the lass. I wish her happy landings in her much smaller pond. But I think she was serriously overreaching for the job.

You are absolutely right that the big issues are far more important.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM

In any election the candidates speak so much and so often that they are bound to make mistakes. Stupid ones too. But in the end you add up the quantity of stupid things said to see if there is a pattern. Sarah exceeded her limit.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:08 PM

Since NObody picked up on or acknowledged my comment (unless I missed sommat), I'll say it again in a different way... sacraficial lamb... BAAAAAAAd.

Seriously, I meant it as a serious comment AND as a joke.

Oh well, as Craigh says, "I made myself laugh. That's half the battle."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:20 PM

Hubris must certainly have played a part in her decision to accept McCain's invitation and will have blinded her to the inevitably catastrophic outcome. Some Alaskans may rally to her corner because of a tendency anong some of them to disdain all that goes on in the lower 48, but even so she must surely have lost street cred on her home base. Regardless of whether she deserves sympathy, she must herself rue the day her name went on the ticket.

Ron Davies's point is interesting. If Hilary had revisited her support for the Iraq war she would have got my vote. (Not that I had one.) With hindsight America has finished up with an imeasurably better result. Following on from the Kennedy clan influence and the Bush dynasty, a second Clinton at the helm would have put a huge questionmark beside the American Dream. I'm susrprised that this was not a bigger factor in the primaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:28 PM

I cannot seem to keep my Mudcat cookie and this is getting annoying but the problem is in my computer not Mudcat.

As for the phrase I mentioned earlier, I saw it in only one source. In the context of other things Palin has said, and the contempt she has shown for things that do not fit in an image acceptable to her, it is believable. But I will admit I should have had more information before repeating the phrase. As for being a savvy politician, she may well be, but she was in the company of friends and talking with them. Bill Clinton was also a savvy politician but he opened the door for his critics and invited them inside. McCain took 60% of the votes in Stone County and for a pretty fair portion of those voters race was the primary issue.

The fact that some prominent people crossed party lines to endorse Obama suggests that there is a segment of reason within the Republican Party. Hopefully, they will re-establish the party with a view to serving the whole population instead of a minority of special interests. I personally believe this country needs the balance of a two or more party system. We are electing people, not saints, to public office.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 03:51 PM

I have no pity for this woman, and I think she is dangerous. But the allegations that she made the "Sambo" comment are really thin. They are based on second person testimony made to one person. HERE IS THE SNOPES REPORT ON THE SUPPOSED COMMENT.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:42 PM

The Snopes report links to the blog of the person who started this allegation.   Interestingly enough, Snopes does not point- blank state the assertion has no basis, as they often do. Reading the blog, it seems at least possible that it is true.   Definitely has more chance than "Obama is a Moslem" or others of the rabid Right we've been treated to recently.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:13 PM

I don't feel sorry for Palin at all.

He had a good long run with Monty Python et al. Now he's doing those travelogue shows that look like a lot of fun. And lots of writing. And a few documentaries. He got a CBE in 2000 and a high-speed train and an asteroid named after him.

He's a lumberjack and he's okay.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:32 PM

"I think if there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA or about the continent versus the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context, and that is cruel and mean-spirited, it's immature, it's unprofessional, and those guys are jerks," Palin said.

Above quote of Palin today.
um.. so she thinks there is Africa the country and then Africa the continent? Keep giving Tina Fey great lines, Sarah!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:51 PM

As I've said elsewhere, I doubt the veracity of the Sambo comment. She is, after all, married to someone who is part Eskimo; I should think that would, at the very least, sensitize anyone to racial aspersions but even more to the point, it would imply someone who is not overtly racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:49 AM

Did you see the press blather yesterday? She was on about how mistreated she was. Obama never had to answer questions about who his hair dresser or make up man was, never questioned about his clothes, etc.

She said she would warn her girls about the double standard, blah blah blah. Never mentioned that she had no clue about Africa, the Senate, or any other 6th grade question that those mean old press people threw at her. It's always the other guy's fault, eh?
Clueless ignoramus!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:24 AM

SHe has asserted that for those nameless campaign staff to take her remarks out of context in this way is cruel, and that they are therefore jerks.

However, she fails to reflect on the many times she has done the same to her political opponents in the governor and Presidential campaigns.

Karma is a bitch.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:08 AM

"...so she thinks there is Africa the country and then Africa the continent? Keep giving Tina Fey great lines, Sarah!"



                         There is!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM

Actually, Rig, the Republic of South Africa, the country, is not usually referred to as Africa.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:11 AM

"However, she fails to reflect on the many times she has done the same to her political opponents in the governor and Presidential campaigns."


                  Of course you would do that to your political opponents. You're expected to do that. What Palin is talking about are memebers of McCain's campaign. They were suppose to be there to help and support her. What they've done instead goes to undermine McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:31 AM

I'm guessing that what's being done to Palin right now by some members of the Republican Party is an attempt to insure that she doesn't run in 2012. My guess is that the part of the Republican Party that is more centerist probably recognizes that if the right-wing fundamentalist factions, for whom Palin has become the spokesperson, were to retain their hold on the party, that could destroy the Republicans' chances of regaining any kind of power in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:49 AM

Rig, if you refer to South Africa as just Africa, then you are as ignorant as she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

There is that. Rig, the political game to one side, I was referring to the interesting mechanism of criticizing others when one sees ones own harmful acts in them. She has been exactly the kind of jerk she is accusing them of being.

I think ALaska should hold on to her for twenty more years.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

Yes, Carol, I think you're right about that. Personally, I think if the religeous-right-wing maintains control of the Republican Party, it will wither away and a new party will spring up in its place.
                   It would be interesting if the Greens were to gain in strength, and make the Democrats the conservative party.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:55 AM

That is the smartest notion you've voiced on this site, Rig. What an interesting turn that would be!!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:57 AM

I've been thinking myself lately that the Republican Party ought to disappear, leaving the Democratic Party as the conservative party and the Greens as the liberal party.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:59 AM

What's happening to Palin now is exactly what happened to Gore (and every presidential loser). He was criticized brutally for his lackluster campaign - deservedly so IMO. It's called Monday morning quarterbacking.
If she can't handle it, she does not belong in national politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:02 AM

I don't think there is any directed campaign on the part of some Republicans to further undermine Palin (GO, SARAH!!!). More likely the leaks are therapy for campaign staff who find themselves free from the restraints of the campaign bubble and can't resist babbling to the media. There's also a strong need to blame someone when a campaign fails as badly as this one did.

There were also several reporters "embedded" in the campaign that are providing their inside reports now.

Palin, in her return to Alaska yesterday, did seem to blame the "media" for her image problems, rather than assuming any responsibility for her own inane remarks. I do wonder if her support at home has eroded with her National Exposure.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM

If it has, she'll probably be able to rebuild it. After all, at the moment she's sharing the spotlight with Ted Stevens.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:19 AM

"Of course you would do that to your political opponents. You're expected to do that. What Palin is talking about are memebers of McCain's campaign. They were suppose to be there to help and support her. What they've done instead goes to undermine McCain".

This republican support ended with the end of the election. It's a new game, now that that is over. So, it should not be surprising that new alliances are likely forming. I suspect the Republican party is now in a two year search/battle for a 2012 canidate. Palin's public comments indicate she is likely an early canidate. By taking this approach, she also makes herself an "early" recipient of internal republican political barbs.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:27 AM

It might be worthwhile to note, she is making these charges in Alaska where she has a good chance of garnering sympathy. She needs to unify the palace guard before going forth to raise an army.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:52 AM

The very fact that she wrote two concession speeches and thought she would get to deliver them should tell you something about how out of touch she is. VP's don't deliver concession speeches these days, the Presidential candidates do. The look you see on her face as she whinges about her treatment is the look of a person whose 15 minutes are over and she can't believe it. I don't know if she will be back on the national scene in a credible way or not, but for now she just looks like a sad figure.

She made the classic political mistake. She believed her own press. HERE IS WHAT I SAID THE MORNING AFTER SHE WAS NOMINATED.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

Well, I've been wrong about this whole thing from the start.

I didn't believe that they could possibly nominate her- and they did.
Given that, I believed that they would ditch her before the campaign was over - they didn't.

So I hesitate to predict that she won't be back.

Alaska is, well, different. It could be that the kind of mindset that draws people up here is the same thing that makes them/us do such odd things.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 11:48 AM

In my more cynical moments (there was one yesterday afternoon, I think), I believe it's possible the RNC knew McCain was going to fail and they searched for a VP candidate they could pass off as having been taken seriously but one whom they could blame the failed election on when the inevitable happened. So yeah, I feel sorry for Palin. I wouldn't vote for her EVER, but she was played like a cheap xylophone.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:17 PM

Sarah Palin: "God will do the right thing on election day" -- thanks, God!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:32 PM

The sun will go down on her for 6 moths & when it comes back up she'll just be a mere shadow, she won't even be history.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:39 PM

The RNC had nothing to do with the pick. McCain picked her (against the advice of staff, I hear) and did so for very cynical and sexist reasons. He felt like she was young, attractive, had the necessary plumbing, and would get the conservatives. He, IMO, never gave more than a moments thought to her credentials. This probably had more to do with the public outside of the fundamentalist community rejecting her and questioning his judgement.

As to feeling bad for her, see bobad's quote above as well as these:

_"Our opponent ... is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough, that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country." — Palin, to donors Saturday at a private airport in Englewood, Colo.

_"These are the same guys who think patriotism is paying higher taxes. Remember, that's what Joe Biden said. Now, this is not a man who sees America as you and I see America. We see America as a force for good in this world. We see an America of exceptionalism. [reacting to crowd] Yes, USA! USA!..."

I could go on and on. Feel bad for her? A dupe of the "RNC". I don't buy it. She is a barracuda (her words and Freudian) and an opportunist. She is deserving of no pity. But her resiliency, along with the fact that Americans have an attention span of about 15 minutes, does worry me.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:42 PM

I think that's a little unfair, Mick. McCain thought at the time he had a chance of capturing some of the Hillary vote, and he needed to do something to gain the support of the right wing of his party. Palin helped him with the latter, but the economic melt-down prevented him from totally capitalizing on his choice of VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM

The idea that Hillary supporters would support Palin was bogus from the start.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:34 PM

Riggy, I can agree that he chose her for those reasons, but he did not exercise good judgement, and acted against the advice of those around him. You are simply restating what I said, but from the perspective of a supporter of his. In either case, he showed a lack of judgement, and a desire to abandon principle for no other reason but to win. Then he allows his running mate to impugn the character of a fine man, despite stating that such tactics were beneath him.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:08 PM

Okay! But it will be interesting to see how historians will treat the developement of the mortgage-meltdown right at the time in happened, sometime after the smoke clears.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM

Fair enough, Riggy, and it will also be interesting to see how history treats the mortgage meltdown and assesses blame. The lack of regulation was directly due to the political pressure put on by the Republicans and the right wing lobbyists. Less government was the mantra used as an excuse to strip away the protective regulations that would have averted this mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

Mick - Yes, I can certainly agree with all of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:22 PM

1) The criticism of Palin by McCain staff started while the campaign was still on. I even suggested at the time that Obama should use it to make one more ad--"How can they govern a country when they can't get along together?"

2) Palin herself criticized the McCain campaign while the campaign was on.

a) She criticized use of robocalls.
b) She wanted to hit Rev. Wright harder.
c) She criticized pulling out of Michigan.

There are others--can't recall them now.

What's interesting is that McCain ever might expect she would be a team player--after all, her supposed appeal was that she was a maverick.   He should have known what that means--he's been criticized by Republicans for the very same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:05 PM

Historians never reach a consensus about things like that. And nor should they.
.......................................

2) Palin herself criticized the McCain campaign while the campaign was on.

a) She criticized use of robocalls.
b) She wanted to hit Rev. Wright harder.
c) She criticized pulling out of Michigan.


I'd say all three of those her instinct were probably right about what would help or harm their election prospects.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:07 PM

"Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

Details of the spike in threats to Mr Obama come as a report last week by security and intelligence analysts Stratfor, warned that he is a high risk target for racist gunmen."

The rest of the article here:
Secret Service blames Palin

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:11 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/sarahpalin/3405336/Sarah-Palin-blamed-by-the-US-Secret-Service-for-death-threats-against-Barack-Obama.html#

link URL to the article

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,Mad Jock
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:13 PM

WHAT FOR . A pit bull that spent Thousamds of dollars on MAKEUP , and cant even let the world know who she voted for> DOes that mean she voted for Obama.??????

Makes you think tho!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:32 PM

Just to remind Americans what they have lost...

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:06 PM

McGrath-

No, we can't afford the luxury of having Sarah Palin around to bash just for the delight that would generate. However, she might come back to the national scene if she decides to run for the vacated seat of Sen. Stevens and actually wins a majority of those strange Alaskan voters.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:11 PM

Riginslinger, in all my life I think I've heard just two people refer to South Africa as Africa. You and Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:30 PM

Hey, I'm sniffin' more than a little elitism here...

If this democracy expierment has any chance of workin' don't ya'll think that Roller Derby should be represented, too...

No, I am being serious here... If we expect dummed down people to buy into becoming particpants of democracy then if they don't have their own heroes then it ain't gonna work...

Yes, we need a few Sarah Palins in the mix... That's a good thing...

Even Tom Jefferson would say, "Bring 'er on"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:46 PM

There was a clip on TV today. It struck me that the lady doing the impersonation was hamming it up a bit. Then I realised it actually was Sarah Palin.

Thinking it over I decided I was right first tine. She was hamming it up a bit, exaggerating the act, because she knows what people who like that act like. I don't think people should fool themselves she's not very bright indeed. And she'll be back.

After all, remember how Bush's strong point was supposed to be that he was someone you'd like to have at a barbecue? I think Sarah Palin would be much better barbecue company than Dubya ever would have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:54 PM

Now yer seein' it my way, McG....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:01 PM

From a TIME magazine article
click here

"There's always a circular firing squad after a losing election, and Palin is standing right in the middle of this one. RNC lawyers are coming to Alaska to hold her to account for some of the more than $150,000 spent on clothing and luggage. The first step in plotting her future is finding a way to live down a lot of these latest headlines."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM

Who's Sarah Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:33 PM

At the end of it all, we'll probably discover that the person (or persons) responsible for wasting all that money on clothes and makeup, is the same person that doctored up that video tape about Africa and leaked it to the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 11:29 PM

Is there video tape about the Africa comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM

"...same person who doctored up that video tape..."

Wrong again.

Sarah was to spend about $25,000 on 6 suits. Instead of that she went wild on clothes--for the whole family.

That's the origin of the $150,000--(and it might have been more)--as you can find out if you're willing to do a modicum of research.

And the people who were asked to pay for part of this are not at all happy.

When will at least one lazy Mudcatter ever start thinking beyond conspiracy theories?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:55 AM

Well, we've got different sources then, because the documentation I saw concluded that Sarah Palin didn't buy anything herself, and now they can't even prove that all of the things that were charged were to her.

                It pays to check sources on these things.

                There was a video on the Africa thing when this story first came out, but it wasn't terribly conclusive. If it has since disappeared, that's probably why.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM

I wonder how long it will take for her "memoirs" to be published? There certainly would be a market, given our own interest in speculating about this woman from the North.

I do hope they include a coloring book as well, with all of her new wardrobe. Or may a computer version where those most intrigued can dress and undress her.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:28 AM

Now there's an idea!!!

Maybe with the proceeds they could pay back the RNC for the dough it put out for the clothes...

Hey, I understand that all that Ms. Sarah says she got were a few bottles of pop but I'm still confused about the clothes that First Dude got??? Anyone on that one???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:13 PM

I think paper dolls of the Palin family with
lots and lots and lots and lots of pages of
outfits to cut out would be popular in
the red states.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:13 PM

Do you think about $150,000 was spent on clothes for the Palins--including the baby--or not?   

If not, why not?

And what exactly is your source that it was not spent?

Yes, some of it was returned.   But she was only authorized to spend about $25,000--and far more than that was spent.

Or are you alleging that $150,000 was spent--but just in order to leak it to the press in order to embarrass her and McCain?

As I've said before, the credibility of the poster who's stupidly trying to to allege yet another conspiracy is somewhat below zero.

Time for exact sources--or silence from that poster.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM

"stupidly trying to allege"

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:26 PM

"stupidly trying to allege"


          And that's what you do best, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:26 PM

From the Alaska Mudflats, video of post-election Palin.

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

Highlights in the video:

"It's interesting to note, that Palin never actually turned the reins over to Lt. Governor, Sean Parnell while she was gone. Instead, she felt she would be the best person to manage the affairs of state (since she had all that free time to concentrate on Alaska), and took along with her long-time hometown friend and aide Kris Perry to the tune of $1000 a day. Perry was facilitating communication between the governor and her staff in Alaska. This travel bill will be paid by the residents of Alaksa to the tune of $1000 a day. Keep this in mind when you get to that first highlight I've marked below.

Highlights:
1:35 - talking about "being prudent with other people's money"
2:18 - I know that I know that I know…..?!? (A new Palinism for sure)
5:19 - Advice to the girls of America - "You better study hard." (learned that one at the Couric interview)
6:30 - The other 49 states are behind Alaska in equality
7:30 - A run for the senate seat if Stevens gets elected and expelled? "Not plannin' on that."
7:45 - "This is the best job in the world" (Who wanted that VP job anyway…)
9:30 - She wants to help "fix" the media. There's a funny exchange in here where Palin tried to discredit whoever reported on those "anonymous sources" in the McCain campaign that said she was a nightmare. Then she finds out it was the New York Times. "

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:28 PM

Yes, we need a few Sarah Palins in the mix... That's a good thing...

Even Tom Jefferson would say, "Bring 'er on"...

Maybe, but don't elect her to high office.

As to documentation of Palin's shopping behavior, it is easy to find.

From the link, you'll find:

NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."

McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin during the campaign, and aides kept him in the dark about the details of her spending on clothes because they were sure he would be offended. Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request.

The disclosures are among many revealed in "How He Did It, 2008," the latest installment in NEWSWEEK's Special Election Project, which was first published in 1984. As in the previous editions, "How He Did It, 2008" is an inside, behind-the-scenes account of the presidential election produced by a special team of reporters working for more than a year on an embargoed basis and detached from the weekly magazine and Newsweek.com. Everything the project team learns is kept confidential until the day after the polls close.

and a little further down,

Among the other revelations from the special project:

-The Obama campaign was provided with reports from the Secret Service showing a sharp and disturbing increase in threats to Obama in September and early October, at the same time that many crowds at Palin rallies became more frenzied. Michelle Obama was shaken by the vituperative crowds and the hot rhetoric from the GOP candidates. "Why would they try to make people hate us?" Michelle asked a top campaign aide.

Good riddance to bad trash, Sarah Palin. Those aren't good "political instincts," those are the instincts of a thug.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:34 PM

YEah...seems something like taking an old smoky diesel engine out of a Mexican farm truck, and dropping it into a Corvette frame.

It'll still look good on the outside, but it won't go the distance, and it will be toxic.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:46 PM

She wants to help "fix" the media.
In other words, castration. How dare that Katie Couric ask her
hard questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:53 PM

The trouble was, they weren't hard questions.

Hard questions she could have got away with not being able to answer, especially if asked in a hectoring way. But when she couldn't cope with the simple ones asked in a pretty mild way...

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:58 PM

true

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:17 PM

Palin Says She Never Asked For Pricey Clothes
ADVERTISEMENT



The Associated Press

Published: November 7, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin called her critics cowards and jerks Friday for deriding her anonymously and insisted she never asked for the expensive wardrobe purchased for her use on the presidential campaign.

"I never asked for anything more than a Diet Dr. Pepper once in a while," Palin said as she returned to the governor's office from her two-month odyssey as the GOP vice presidential nominee. She said the Republican National Committee paid for the tens of thousands of dollars in designer clothes and accessories.

"Those are the RNC's clothes. They're not my clothes. I never forced anybody to buy anything," she said.

Republican Party lawyers are still trying to determine exactly what clothing was purchased for Palin at such high-end stores as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, what was returned and what has become of the rest.

She particularly lashed out at the anonymous Republican campaign sources cited in a Fox News report who said she did not know Africa was a continent, not a country, and could not name the three countries in the North American Free Trade Agreement - Canada, the United States and Mexico.

"I consider it cowardly" that they did not allow their names to be used, she said.

Palin said those allegations aren't true. She recalled discussing Africa and NAFTA with aides who prepared her for the vice presidential debate with Democrat Joe Biden.

"If there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA, and about the continent vs. the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context," she said. "That's cruel, It's mean-spirited. It's immature. It's unprofessional and those guys are jerks if they came away with it, taking things out of context and then tried to spread something on national news. It's not fair, and it's not right."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,McGee
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:17 PM

"That's cruel, It's mean-spirited. It's immature. It's unprofessional and those guys are jerks if they came away with it, taking things out of context and then tried to spread something on national news. It's not fair, and it's not right."

cruel? mean-spirited? immature? unprofessional? taking things out of context? not fair? not right? jerks? Sounds like a pretty good reaction to her Republican Convention speech to me (not to mention the remainder of her stump performances!)

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM

I must confess I do sort of feel slightly sorry for her........Naah! Only kidding.

The one thing that was really wrong was that her appearance on the political scene was eight years too late.

Just eight years sooner and one of two things would have happened:-

1. G. W. Bush would never have been elected

or

2. He would have been elected, and with Sarah at his side, he would have looked like an intelligent member of the genus Homo Sapiens.

Dijit

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM

What should Palin do from here on out?

Maybe she could go into partnership with Joe the Plumber in that business that's supposed to net more than a quarter million a year.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:10 PM

Sarah had a windfall of political capital when she was selected for that ticket and she squandered it in making hateful speeches and fear mongering.

People will remember that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:54 PM

That was her role in the campaign. She said all of the things that the McCain campaign wanted out there, but that couldn't come from himself.

                   People will remember that as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:23 PM

She says she "never asked for pricey clothes."

Doesn't seem she put up much of a fight against the terrible burden of being forced to take them. And as I said, the original budget was about $25,000--for about 6 suits. I wonder how it got above $150,000.   Must have been a McCain staffer seeking to trap poor defenseless Sarah, then embarrass the campaign by revealing it to the media.

Anything you say.


The lady doth protest too much--(always wanted to use that.)



Actually, Mr. Riginslimer, we've had over a year of your stupidly trying to allege all sorts of absurdities--virtually all involving Obama--I wonder why.

You are by common consent the master of the art of singularly worthless and unsubstantiated allegations, as well as one of the posters most addicted to infantile conspiracy theories.

Congratulations.

Do you need chapter and verse from your own collected works?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:03 PM

"new alliances are likely forming"
aarrgh! I suddenly recognized that the post-election Republican party looks like a bad tv episode of Survivor. I think the tribes have voted Sarah "off the island".

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:11 PM

Actually, as long as she maintains her "outsider" status, by staying governor in Alaska--not Senator-- and particularly if she manages to get the natural gas pipeline through, she could be in a strong position by 2012. Unfortunately.

Especially if she learns something about how the federal government works and about foreign policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:12 PM

Obviously it all hinges on how successful Obama is.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:22 AM

I don't think she'll have a snowball's chance in hell; there are some very powerful GOP mover and shakers who will most likely do their level best to make sure she stays in Alaska. She proved her ignorance to them plenty and they dropped from the GOP voting ranks like flies. IF she wants to be part of the GOP, unless of course they just turn if over to the fundgelicals (hope I spelled that right:-)completely, but then it will become a fringe party and those people would probably nominate her. But, I also think there's more to trouble in Alaska than we've heard, yet, concerning Miz Sarah. David Duke, Dan Quayle...they never made a comeback and she was even worse than Danny Boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Jayto
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:58 AM

I think the objective to slandering Palin by the Mcain people is part of thier plan. Mcain (if health holds out) is planning to attempt another run in 2012. His people are slamming Palin trying to blame her for his failure and incompetence. Make it appear to be all her fault so he can try to make another run.

Mcain knew what he was doing by asking her. She knew what she was getting into. She is a politician and she would not turn down the offer. Mcain should catch more heat for picking her than she should catch for accepting. Lack of judgement on Mcains behalf period. Palin is ambitious and Mcain wanted a pretty face and personality. She is a neocon pinup. I agree with the whoever said we should call them out as the sexists they are. I agree 100% and it is a shame. I dont feel sorry for Palin at all. She became a player on the world stage and couldnt handle it. I don't think she prepped enough or put enough effort into it. IMHO she acted as if she could just waltz up and charm her way into office. She spent more time bashing Obama than making herself look better. Charisma and Flirtation just doesnt cut it. The whole I am a down home girl from a small town thing just didn't cut it. Like Arkie I am from a small town in the south and Mcain carried my state (KY) and County. I voted for Obama. Race played a big role in my county's vote. I am reminded of that everytime I step out of my house. I hate that so bad. Palin did not help carry the vote and to be truthful I don't really think Mcain earned the votes he got from around here. I have yet to hear anyone around here say anything about Mcain that is real positive or supporting his ideals. I have heard far more derogatory things about said about Obamas ethnicity and that is disturbing to say the least. Palin had her moment in the sun and she recieved a bad burn. Throw her some Aloe and send her home.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 11:48 AM

I feel sorry for anyone who says and believes like Sarah Palin that "Africa is a country".

If they are 22 I feel sorry that education has failed them.

If they are 44 like Palin, I feel sorry that they have failed themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:58 PM

McCain again in 2012? That hadn't even occurred to me.

We'll never know how much of a factor his age and health might have been this time around. Nobody in the Obama campaign said much of anything out loud about it; that was very smart on their part, because any such explicit talk would backfire on them. Still, I'm sure that there were a number of middle-of-the-road white independent voters who might have gone either way but whose decision to vote for Obama was at least partly influenced by the age-and-health issue ~ especially when contemplating who would be the successor if a Presdient McCain would die in office!

Another four years from now, McCain will be that much older and feebler and will have been marked, rightly or wrongly, as a loser. The Republican nominee will be someone younger and newer to that natrional scene.

If it turns out to be someone already well known to all of us today, the GOP is probably dead, at least temporarily.

If the party manages to reinvent itself, somehow, to become relevant in a society and an economy that will have changed significantly, we'll probably be seeing some new names. Maybe T. Boone Pickens, maybe Bobby Jindal.... Who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Genie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:19 PM

Was Palin "used" by McCain? Sure. But I'd say it was more the Rovian Repubs who chose to foist her on McCain (and the rest of us) to shore up the Pat Robertson faction of their party to give the Republicans a fighting chance.    Even the sarcastic, mocking, mean-spirited tone of Palin's Republican Convention speech -- which is what initially turned me off to her -- was fully scripted for her by the puppet masters who scripted ALL the speeches at that convention, including Giuliani's, Huckabee's, Cindy McCain's, John McCain's, etc.   (The speeches all echoed the same talking points, such as making fun of [air quotes] community organizers and Obama's charisma and eloquence.)   

But it was Palin herself who set herself up for ridicule by "not blinking" when approached about being McCain's running mate.   She didn't have enough respect for her country or the magnitude of the responsibilities of the VP, nor did she have a realistic enough appraisal of her own skills and knowledge, to say, "I'm flattered, but I'm really not qualified."

Instead, Palin continually tried to inflate her own qualifications while grossly understating Obama's (and Biden's). She continued to either make fun of Barack Obama or try to convince people that he is unpatriotic, untrustworthy, and even a terrorist sympathizer. When people at her rallies shouted out things like "Kill him!" she never once, to my knowledge, tried to discourage such outbursts or calm that kind of rhetoric.

Palin was quick to accuse the Obama camp of "playing the race card" but when she was criticized for extravagance or ignorance, she was equally quick to cry "Sexism!"   

Sarah Palin never once tried to be a "uniter" or to find common ground with her opponents. Her message was always that those who supported her (Republicans from small towns, for example) were "real Americans" -- as opposed to Democrats, liberals, city dwellers, etc. And she had to stoop to lying about and deliberately distorting Obama's stated political stances to try to woo her rally crowds.   

How can I feel sorry for someone like that?

Especially when the worst "fate" that's happened to her is that she's a bit richer and much better known now, and perfectly poised to make $$$ from books, TV appearances, etc.

Heck, if she wants to forgo running for re-election for Alaska Governor, she can probably have a great career as a right-wing TV or radio talk show host.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:50 PM

Well put, Genie.

Then, again, maybe they're all crazy:

The Republican Governors Association has announced today that Gov. Palin will be the featured guest at its annual conference later this week in Miami, Florida.

Gov. Palin is set to be a featured speaker at a panel discussion entitled, "Looking Toward the Future."

More at abc news.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 02:16 PM

McCain (if health holds out) is planning to attempt another run in 2012.

Well, he'd still be significantly younger than Gladstone was the last time he became Prime Minister at the age of 83.

But I rather doubt it.
.............................................
Maybe the purified Republicans could revert to the historic label of "Know Nothings", with Sarah as their candidate.

Or perhaps, if Sarah Palin is the Republican standard-bearer, she could offer to pick McCain as her running mate, to give her a few votes outside the nutty heartland.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

That's very funny Kat. Asa speaker for the republican Governors she should be a great laugh.And they're going to have to try to redifine themselves & this is how they start. It's great, they're already off on the wrong foot & moving backwards.
My personnal thoughts on the reshaping of the republican party is that they have no choice. If Obama does even a half assed job of getting us out of the mess we're in, he'll be in office for the next 8 yrs followed be, maybe by Biden depending on how he does. BUT, if Obama pulls off a miracle the republicans won't hold any top level public office for the next few decades. I believe the Religious Right will suffer severely & that wiill cause a split in the party which has is already seeing a split with those that do not follow the extreme right wing neocons & some of the older conservitives. I'd love to see their party in a 3 way split & aat thw same time I'd love to see the dem's moving move towards the left & even become radical in they're thinking & policies BUT I don't see that as happening, maybe that's for the better too.
As far as Sara's future goes, I see the sun's already setting on that, she's gonna end up as the the poster girl that not only killed the election but the one who's at fault for the demise of the party.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:17 PM

In today's Media section of the Guardian a strip making a pitch for a proposed TV series.

The idea is "Around the world in 80 days" with Sarah Palin: A travel company shoudl sponsor Sarah Palin on a round-the-world trip to beef up her foreign policy knowledge in preparation for the 2012 election. To be filmed as a TV series, Chaperoned by her namesake Michael Palin, one time part of Monty Python, more recently globe-trotting for a number of excellent BBC travel series.

It's a joke - but I can imagine something like this actually happening.
I think it could be a hoot.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:27 PM

I'd snap it up if I were Sarah. It would cement her bond with that English sort of country over there that she can't see from her house, and also qualify her as knowedgeable even if she stays dumb. It would give her an opportunity to travel on the RNC's nickel, and go outside the country for the first time. Oh, and probably shop for some really nice travel outfits. Plus, the movie would get lots of downloads and advertising income.

Sound slike an irresistible deal, to me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:16 PM

Here is Michael Palin in Tokyo...

And here he is in San Francisco visiting the gay community - "the epitome of a well-organised community".

It'd be an interesting meeting of minds...

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:32 PM

"Should we feel sorry for Palin?"


                  Probably not, this from the Daily Telegraph:



SARAH Palin won't be vice president, but she won the hearts of talent scouts and literary agents who are scrambling to sign her to multimillion-dollar contracts.

The Republican vice-presidential candidate Palin is being actively pursued by top talent agencies such as CAA, ICM, William Morris and Paradigm.

Gallery: Sarah Palin in pictures

All of them are looking to make her the "White Oprah" complete with book deal by the end of November, reports the New York Post's Page Six

Linda Mann, president of Mann Media, which books celebrities and fashionistas for TV, noted, "Her buzz is incredible.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:36 PM

All of them are looking to make her the "White Oprah"

Oprah is rich, generous, and smart--how on earth do they visualize this twit as a white version of her?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:24 PM

Oh, gee! I can just see her asking tough question of white protestant wife-abusers or white-collar criminals. And although she is not likely to start a Book of the Month club, she might start as Sleazy Tabloid of the Month club, or perhaps a Glossy Magazine of the Month Club, for those who want a little spice with their ditziness.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:29 PM

I think she's probably quite smart enough to sharpen up her act considerably in a way that would widen her audience. I see no reason why she shouldn't be up to "asking tough question of white protestant wife-abusers or white-collar criminals." Or for that matter starting a Book of The Month Club.

It's always a mistake to underestimate your enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:34 PM

Hey, ya know, it worked out okay for Lucille and Ricky. They could put the two of them in a sit comm, her and Trek, or Tank, or whatever his name is.


"Saaaaaa-RAH!!!!! You got some 'SPLAININ' to doooo...."



A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Genie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:37 PM

Sarah as "The White Oprah," Riginslinger?   Hmmm.   I guess she does draw a crowd, of sorts.

But then, Oprah's not only smart but an avid reader.   She's also a pretty nice person.

Pretty hard shoes for Ms. Wise-cracking we-don'-need-no-fancy-book-larnin' "Maverick" to fill. Kind of hard to be another Oprah when over half the country already dislikes you or doesn't take you seriously.

But, hey, move over, Ann Coulter!   *g*

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:50 PM

Well, I'm just the messenger, but I wouldn't be surprised if over half the country didn't like Oprah!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:57 PM

Oprah's ratings are way higher than any of those that you've been supporting Rig!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: emjay
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:02 PM

Back near the beginning someone commented that she did a good job as mayor of Wasilla. No, a lot of Wasilla residents will vigorously dispute that. I always thought her decision to allow a big box store to be erected on the shores of Lake Wasilla was a good indicator of her service as mayor, though her immediate successor may have outdone her when she tried to condemn the property on which locally owned stores sat so another big chain store could come in.
She has been successful as governor for two reasons: She followed an immensely unpopular governor and she worked with Democrats in the state legislature.
Many Alaskans are not infatuated with her and there have been a number of demonstrations around the state to make that point. Reporters, film crews, etc. have been here from around the world and we have had a lot of fun with that -- even though many of us are not proud of the image of our state presented to the world.
Martie

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:32 PM

Yes, it does seem that her time as Wasilla mayor was not an unqualified success--and she's not exactly the model of a fiscal conservative.

1)   She said she was going to save the town money by cutting her own salary from $65,000 to $60,000. So she cut her salary as promised. However, then it turned out she could not in fact handle the job as mayor. So she hired a city manager--at $50,000.

So much for saving the town money.

2) Then of course there's the ice rink. She somehow neglected to get clear title to the property--so as a result Wasilla has had to pay over $1 million in negotiating it--needlessly--since she didn't take the obvious step of making sure of title before she started the process.


And of course hiring the contact to steer federal funds to Wasilla.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:35 PM

The White Oprah?

Great idea! It ranks right up there in sheer brilliance with The Legendary Flight of Lawnchair Larry.

But should we feel sorry for Palin?

I don't think so!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:47 PM

And speaking of really stupid ideas, "Palin in 2012" is the worst idea since that night sometime in July of 1888 when Alois Hitler turned to his wife and said, "Come on, Klara, let's have an early night tonight. I'm feelin' kinda frisky!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 11:48 PM

Is that the bottom line?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Genie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:52 AM

Good comparison, that, Don -- Palin as Lawnchair Larry!

Rig, somehow I don't think Oprah would have achieved the status of America's Most Influential Woman (slight paraphrase perhaps, but an honor I've repeatedly seen cited for her -- if not "The World's Most Influential Woman") if over half our population didn't like her.
Oprah, indeed, has transcended race, political affiliation, and social class to a great extent in the outreach of her show(s).   Sarah Palin hasn't even TRIED to do that.

: )

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:55 AM

With a population of 300 million in the USA, "less than half" could still be a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 08:55 AM

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Sarah Palin. It has taken me a week to simmer down. But then I heard she spent an entire Saturday sorting through clothes trying to determine which ones were hers and which ones belonged to the Republican Campaign Committee, all those clothes! Poor woman! So many clothes, so little time! And, Lord knows, whatever happened to the receipts?

You don't suppose there might be an accidental fire in her future?

"All God's children need shoes!"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 09:26 AM

SHe is waiting for God to show her the Open Door so she can Plough Through It. SHe said this in the context of contemplating running fopr President in '12.

Ummmmmmm......yeah. Sure.

If she said she was listening for God to talk to her through her hair-dryer about this OPen Door , it would be certifiably a nutcase scenario. But I fail to see how the presence or absence of a hair-dryer makes that much difference.

(Borrowed from some where else....).

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Jayto
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:21 PM

I don't think Mcain will land the nomination again. I think we are done seeing his name on the presidential ticket. I think (in his mind) he is going to try to get the GOP nominantion again. I know it is not realistic but in Mcain's mind he thinks it is. Just like Palin sees a Palin 2012 sign in her mind Mcain still thinks he has a shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

I say feel sorry for the U.S., that Palin could even be proposed as a vice-presidential candidate.

Oh, ye generation of morons...

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Jayto
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:46 PM

In a 2 party system you have to take what you are handed. I wish we could elect who we wanted as a vice pres. I really don't think it is right that we elect the president but get stuck with whoever they choose if something happens to the POTUS.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:51 PM

But Jayto - The other option is to stick a president with someone he or she didn't choose. That can be an unworkable situation. It's better that the canidate picks their own. In McCains instence it shows the type of choices he's capible of making.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:16 PM

I watched (on msnbc video) Part One of the Matt Lauer/Sarah Palin interview.

To my mind, there were several moments where she either wittingly misled Lauer or simply gave the best answer she could come up with, but if she outright lied that can easily enough be checked. And no doubt will be.

She said that her relationship with McCain from the start and continuing to this day ("almost every day they talk on the telephone")has been warm and friendly, that she honors the man, this "great American hero" and had prepared a concession-night speech "bragging him up" and that she wanted to give it even if it meant breaking precedent.

She said that these unnamed McCain aides are hiding behind anonymity and are cowards, that she was NEVER a diva and NEVER asked for special favors,

According to her, she flew to the East Coast with only an overnight bag, because she had been informed that they would provide her with a wardrobe.

She said she has never been in Neiman-Marcus or Goldman Sachs.
She said that she never saw $150,000 worth of clothing.
She said that "about one third" was sent back immediately, "either because they didn't fit or because they didn't fit how they wanted the family to look"
She said that another third did travel with her and all of it has since been returned to the RNC.
She said that another third travelled in the "belly of the plane" and never came to her.

It was an interesting interview. Lauer asked a lot of questions but there were a few questions he did not ask or follow up on.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:30 PM

INteresting defenses, and if true, a sad indictment of the yaller-dog journalism that has so often impeded the democratic prpocess in one direction or another.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM

"elect who we wanted" as a VP. We did try that. Burr was Jefferson's VP in his first term. Not a happy situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM

Ron Davies said:

"elect who we wanted" as a VP. We did try that.

Not exactly, Ron. In those days the runner-up for president was the VP. No-one ran for VP directly. The result tended to be the reverse of today's scheme: The president got his chief antagonist as VP.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:04 PM

1) If she said "never been in Goldman Sachs", that's another classic along the lines of "the country of Africa".   As I recall, Goldman Sachs is not a clothing store.

2) It's hard to believe she never asked how much the clothing bought for her was costing. Since a big part of her appeal was "typical hockey mom", she should have realized--if she had any political savvy whatsoever-- how expensive outfits--for the whole family--doesn't exactly fit.

And when she found out how much it was costing, as a "maverick" she should have put her foot down and rejected the whole outfitting.

Or been willing to face the consequences.



Poor misunderstood Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:06 PM

But Dave, that is what the suggestion is. If we elect who we want, the second vote-getter by definition is the VP. As I said, that was tried.

And the 1800 election was seamy in all sorts of ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:13 PM

Ron, I had thought the idea advanced was that individuals would run for VP and be voted for separately, so that we'd "get who we wanted" for VP.   If I misunderstood, so be it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:23 PM

I believe the original system was that the person who got the most electoral votes became President, and the person who came second became Vice President.

Maybe you should have stuck with that. McCain would probably make quite a good VP. And so would Obama, if it had gone the other way.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:33 PM

Goldman Sachs is an investment firm. I wonder if she slipped on purpose or if she's really stupid enough to have mixed that up with "Saks Fifth Avenue."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:35 PM

Another problem with the original Constitutional way of choosing the VP, in addition to saddling a new President with his chief adversary , is inherent in the duties allotted by the Constitution to the VP.

Aside from his (unofficial) function of praying for the death of the President, his ONLY function was to preside as president of the Senate, calling for and declaring the vote count and the like, but never doing anything substantive in the legislation presented except when there was a tie, when he had the privilege of breaking the tie.

One of the early VPs, whose name I forget, said that the office of Vice-President of the United States was "The most insignificant office ever devised by the mind of Man," or words close to that. And the successful candidate, the President, knowing that this was his enemy, would have no motivation to devise useful functions for the VP, his enemy who had been relegated to "the most insignificant office".

I should think that the possibility of becoming VP might be a significant reason NOT to run for president.

And of course the country faced the possibility of having foisted on it an individual who had been REJECTED by the majority.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:45 PM

It might be my stupidity, kat. Thinking back on it, she may have said Saks.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM

"person who came second" became VP. That's exactly why Jefferson wound up with Burr--though 1800 was a special case in all sorts of ways. There were other similar results. Not a happy situation, as I said. And not a good idea.

McCain is a far more decent person than many of the extremely ambitious people who would have wound up as VP--with huge friction resulting.

It's not for nothing that the VP position was described, as I recall, as "not worth a bucket of warm spit"--or was it worse than that?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:57 PM

"S. PALIN: Well, I, like Senator McCain, we're both quite independent. And that, too, is, I think, why we got along so well, also. In fact, my husband said, we're so much alike it scared him. That we, we're both independent. We both call it like we see it. We speak from the heart. And once in a while to have somebody tell you what you should or should not say, it...

LAUER: Were they trying to make you something that you're not?

S. PALIN: You know, I don't -- I don't know. "

From the transcript HERE.

That's okay, Ebbie. I think she just said Saks,no fifth avenue or goldman.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 10:17 AM

Should we feel sorry for Palin? No, we shouldn't. She's headed for Miami.




Palin To Speak In Miami At Governor's Conference
Gov. Palin Remains Popular Among Republicans, And Is Still Mentioned As A Possible Presidential Candidate In 2012
MIAMI (CBS4) ¯ Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska is scheduled to deliver remarks at the Governor's Conference in Miami Thursday on "Looking Toward the Future,'' and will grant several national interviews.


Gov. Palin is not going quietly into the sunset now that she has gotten off her campaign called the "Straight Talk Express".

She has been granting interviews ever since her bid for the vice presidency ended, and this week she will be given a starring role when the Republican Governors Association meets in Miami for its annual conference.

The conference is drawing a number of other up-and-coming Republican governors, including Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and Gov. Charlie Crist, all of whom were mentioned as possible running mates for Senator John McCain.



She is expected to make her opening remarks before the plenary session from 9:30 am to 10 am on Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 02:20 PM

"Straight Talk" evidently doesn't mean talking clearly, in this case.

I remember at some point in the campaign there was some fuss about a politician describing Obama as "highly articulate", and that was seen as a bit of a put-down. I don't think there is any danger of Sarah Palin getting that kind of put-down.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:29 PM

The recent "Palin quotes from a campaign insider" were apparently an elaborate hoax: Fake expert and phony think tank -- NY Times.

A Senior Fellow at the Institute of Nonexistence
By RICHARD PEREZ-PENA
Published: November 12, 2008

"It was among the juicier post-election recriminations: Fox News Channel quoted an unnamed McCain campaign figure as saying that Sarah Palin did not know that Africa was a continent.

Who would say such a thing? On Monday the answer popped up on a blog and popped out of the mouth of David Shuster, an MSNBC anchor. "Turns out it was Martin Eisenstadt, a McCain policy adviser, who has come forward today to identify himself as the source of the leaks," Mr. Shuster said.

Trouble is, Martin Eisenstadt doesn't exist. His blog does, but it's a put-on. The think tank where he is a senior fellow — the Harding Institute for Freedom and Democracy — is just a Web site. The TV clips of him on YouTube are fakes.

And the claim of credit for the Africa anecdote is just the latest ruse by Eisenstadt, who turns out to be a very elaborate hoax that has been going on for months. MSNBC, which quickly corrected the mistake, has plenty of company in being taken in by an Eisenstadt hoax, including The New Republic and The Los Angeles Times."

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 09:29 PM

The hoax comments having been revealed seems to have elevated Palin's star among the ranks of the hard-core Republicans. I don't know what that means for the party, but so far it's sure done a lot for her.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 10:05 PM

Kind of an ironic twist, actually--revealing a false accusation of stupidity is false magically exonerates her for all her ACTUAL stupidities. A clever PR double-feint indeed.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 10:33 PM

"the hard-core Republicans"--who are also totally against any abortion rights, and are also looking forward to the "End Times".

More power to her.

Since there are in fact a fair number of Republicans who believe in abortion rights, and who are thinking beings--therefore will never support Sarah and her apocalyptic drivel. Not to mention, may care somewhat about the environment. And might want a spokesman who can put a coherent sentence together.

Note how many high-profile Republicans declared for Obama this time--and many specifically cited Sarah and her proud Know-Nothing stance as one of the main reasons.

Even the WSJ editorial page weighed in on Sarah's flaws:   

7 Nov WSJ:

"The Governor's stump speech took on an us-versus-them cast, framing the election as a battle between the 'real America' and blue-state elites"   Hard as it may be to believe, New Jersey is part of America too".

Sounds like even the WSJ editorial page writers can think once in a while--if you ignore yet another gratuitous slap at NJ.

So if Sarah continues on her merry way, she can split the Republicans in 2012 just as neatly as she did this time.

All Obama supporters should wish her Godspeed.

Don't change a thing, Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:09 AM

I don't think Sarah Palin has asked for, or would welcome anyone feeling sorry for her. There is no reason for that.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:11 AM

The "End Times" must be here. I completely agree with Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:16 AM

The "End Times" are here! Why? Because the American public went out and elected the Manchurian Candidate to the presidency?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:06 PM

I feel sorry for her today. It looks as if Stephens is going to lose via early ballots just being counted. There goes her Senate seat.
M

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM

Rig:

Specifically and explicitly defend your use ofr "Manchurian candidate" to describe the President-Elect of the United States, sir. Or, if you will not, confess to being scurrilous and be done with it!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:35 PM

Sara's about to help redifine the republican party's image




In the likeness of God. God help him

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM

Fox News says

"The hoax was limited to the identity of the source in the story about Palin -- not the FOX News story itself. While Palin has denied that she mistook Africa for a country, the veracity of that report was not put in question by the revelation that Eisenstadt is a phony."

The NY Times report did not state this unambiguously.

I really wanted to be able to cut her some slack... but I guess not.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:36 PM

"Specifically and explicitly defend your use ofr "Manchurian candidate" to describe the President-Elect of the United States,"


                   I was hoping to catch Ron Davies' attention!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:23 PM

Ran across a particularly good summation of Palin and her current situation--think this is from MSNBC First Read--a comment.

"I'm incredulous that Sarah Palin is crying the blues about the rumors coming from her own party and campaign and how badly she was treated. Sarah Palin launched one of the most vitriolic scorched-earth campaigns in US history. Her campaign rallies were more akin to Nazi Germany than US politics. If anyone saw some of the crazed bigots headed to her rallies you saw what most Americans rejected. No wonder the GOP's run was an abject failure. This country cannot move forward mired in myopia, intolerance and divisiveness. Until the GOP moves back to the center and becomes more diverse, it will never rise in this country. America will never become Nazi Germany. For those hoping for most Americans to embrace the hatred and hypocrisy of the GOP base, I feel sorry for you."

Interestingly, Karl Rove--yes, he's not going away--has a counterpoint to this.

In today's WSJ, his column notes that Republicans gained legislative seats across the South.

Which may tend to support the idea that myopia, intolerance and divisiveness still have a home in the US--in fact their traditional home in the Old Confederacy. Though it would be interesting to know who gained seats in Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.

Rove speaks of Obama's "reverse coattails". Maybe it's not that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:28 PM

Rove appears to be speaking primarily of state house and state senate makeups in the South, though he notes that Democrats picked up only 10 state senate seats out of 1,971 in the whole US, and 94 state house seats out of 5,411.

Then of course you'd have to know how many the Democrats started with--which he doesn't say.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:42 PM

Ron - Haven't you been paying attention to the news. MSNBC is the source of all of the disinformation. They have no credibility at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM

Actually if you were going by the plot of the Manchurian Candidate, the one in the frame would have been McCain, as having been potentially subject to brainwashing during his captivity.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:27 AM

Yeah, but McCain didn't go to school in Indonesia!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 12:43 PM

Yeah, Rig. Speaking of "mired in myopia, intolerance and divisiveness. . . ."

Keep those smears a-comin',
Keep those smears a-comin',
Keep those smears a-comin',
Spread a few more each day.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:58 PM

Getting back to the subject, should we feel sorry for Sarah? No! She was a big hit at the Republican Govenor's Conference.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:29 PM

Correction: she received a polite reception. When members of a panel including Christine Whitman and Tim Pawlenty were asked to vouch for Sarah's credentials as a future president, they somehow were not able to do so.

Not that Mr. Riginslimer would understand the reference--(educating him is just too great a task)-- but it was "modified rapture".

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 11:06 PM

Wrong again, Ron. Whitman, Pawlenty, and a few others with their own political axes to grind, wish to withhold their enthusiasm for Sarah Palin, of course, but the right-wing loved her.

               I shouldn't be in a position of defending her, and wouldn't--her political veiws are a lot different than mine--except the events of the last few weeks are so unfair and cowardly, I don't know what else to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 11:46 PM

Mr. Riginslimer--

The point, which you as usual miss, is that the right wing is not all there is to the Republican party these days. That--not any imagined ax-grinding-- is why there is a split--which was reflected in the election, is not restricted to Pawlenty , and has not disappeared.

Not that you can be expected to understand it.

If it's less subtle than a sledgehammer, it somehow escapes your mighty brain. Perhaps you should return to plumbing.

No wonder you defend Sarah.   Dull minds also think alike, it seems.

You and Sarah might as well go back to Smears R US. It's the only thing you both have mastered.   But let me compliment you--both-- on your excellence in smearing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 12:03 AM

By the way, Mr. Riginslimer, you also missed the reference to MSNBC earlier. I clearly stated that my quote was a comment--not an objective evaluation. I never claimed it to be objective. I just felt the poster expressed the situation quite well.

If you don't learn to read, I'm sorry to say that your postings may never have any value--not that that is a surprise to anybody who has wasted any time reading your contributions--actually that's redundant (look it up).

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 07:27 AM

You must live in a really tiny world, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:16 AM

Congratulations on keeping control of your temper Rig....The children are even more tiresome today. why dont some of the mods give them a good smacking.....are they ALL Democratic misogynists?..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:45 AM

I've posted some things in the past, Ake, that I wished I hadn't, and felt very bad about it later. It's hard to change somebody's mind and attack them personally at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 01:00 PM

Well, Riginslimer, if you post things you wish you hadn't, just think, you always have the option to actually think before hitting "send". Or even read your post afterwards and post a correction.

Actually it's fairly evident you really have no ability in writing, research --or probably anything else-- except to smear. But that you have well in hand. Congratulations.

If you like , I can give you chapter and verse from your own collected works.

And it's interesting you think I live in a tiny world. After all, if you recall, I'm not the one who has no use for Mexicans or any blacks in public life. Or who ascribes all the ills of the world to religion--rather than to people who refuse to think---like your good self?

Let's see, first you spent months telling us how much better Hillary was than Obama.   Then you spent more months attacking Obama and defending Palin.



Have fun getting used to saying "President Obama". Hope it doesn't hurt you too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Jayto
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 02:47 PM

NO WE SHOULD NOT!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 03:41 PM

I don't feel sorry for Ms. Sarah... I mean, lets get real here... Alaska is about the most redneck state in the entire country and she is the perfect governor for such a state... Nowhere elese in the country, maybe with the exception of Soputh Carolina, could she become governor...

Which brings up another question and that is 2012... If there are only two states rednecky enough to have Ms. Srah as their governor, exsactly where is this hidden path to the nomination??? The Repubs have been goibng over thsi last whuppin' and the one's I have heard are trying ways to rebuild a party that is less dependent on the old threadbare Southern Startegy which has run it;s course...

So, if Ms> Sarah is going to be a party nominee in 2012 it would have to be for a reborn Dixiecrat Party, not the Republican Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:38 PM

A "suspicious" fire devastated the church attended by Alaska Gov. and former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin on Friday night in her hometown of Wasilla, the church's minister said.


Officials are considering arson in fire that broke out Friday at the Wasilla Bible Church in Wasilla, Alaska.

"We have no idea what caused it," the Rev. Larry Kroon of the Wasilla Bible Church said Saturday, adding that investigators were considering arson and other possible causes.

A ladies' craft group was in the building when the fire broke out, but they got out safely, Kroon said.

"No one was hurt," he said.

Central Mat-Su Fire Department Chief James Steele said the department was "treating it as suspicious and as potential arson at this point" but did not elaborate, The Anchorage Daily News reported.

The newspaper said Palin released a statement after the fire in which she said she stopped by the church Saturday morning and offered an apology to the assistant pastor "if the incident is in any way connected to the undeserved negative attention the church has received since she became a vice presidential candidate."

Steele said that as many as 40 firefighters from his and neighboring departments fought the blaze, which started about 9:40 p.m. Friday (1:40 a.m. ET Saturday).

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:17 AM

Too bad about the church, but she certainly is getting her spin on it in early, no?

she said she stopped by the church Saturday morning and offered an apology to the assistant pastor "if the incident is in any way connected to the undeserved negative attention the church has received since she became a vice presidential candidate."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:29 AM

She's a political creature. It's an instinct.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:32 PM

I'm with David Brooks ( a REAL conservative- not your average BuShite NeoCon jackass ):

"[Sarah Palin] represents a fatal cancer to the Republican party."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM

I have an alibi...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM

If only they will just keep her up north in her Castle of Isolation. She's too brazen to feel sorry for, although I pity her for the weather.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 03:54 PM

Seems John is not too sorry for her.

"CNN) -- Sen. John McCain said Sunday he would not necessarily support his former running mate if she chose to run for president.


Speaking to ABC's "This Week," McCain was asked whether Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin could count on his support.

"I can't say something like that. We've got some great other young governors. I think you're going to see the governors assume a greater leadership role in our Republican Party," he said.

He then mentioned governors Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and Jon Huntsman of Utah.

McCain said he has "the greatest appreciation for Gov. Palin and her family, and it was a great joy to know them."

"She invigorated our campaign" against Barack Obama for the presidency, he said.


"Have no doubt of my admiration and respect for her and my view of her viability, but at this stage, again ... my corpse is still warm, you know?" he replied.

In his first Sunday political TV appearance since November 4, McCain also promised to work to build consensus in tackling America's challenges, and criticized his own party for its latest attack on Obama.

In his first Sunday political TV appearance since losing the presidential election, McCain rejected complaints from the Republican National Committee that Obama has not been transparent about his contacts with Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

"I think that the Obama campaign should and will give all information necessary," McCain told ABC's "This Week."

"You know, in all due respect to the Republican National Committee and anybody -- right now, I think we should try to be working constructively together, not only on an issue such as this, but on the economy, stimulus package, reforms that are necessary."

McCain's answer came in response to a question about comments from RNC Chairman Mike Duncan. The RNC also released an Internet ad last week, titled "Questions Remain," suggesting Obama is failing to provide important information about potential links between his associates and Blagojevich."

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 03:59 PM

I take exception to your condescension, Amos- there are people out there - and up here - who actually prefer our weather to your interminable - and frequently intolerable - sunshine that heats the dry winds that spawn sporadic devastating fires that swallow up homes, wild animals and people alike. Not to mention the ubiquitous possibility of the very ground beneath your feet disappearing into the bowels of the earth.

So there. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:46 PM

Wow!! Thanks, Ebb--I had forgotten how disadvantaged I truly am.

I guess I should put on my light jacket and take a walk to reconsider. :D

But please, do not think that I am looking down at your weather. One look at a map will show you that it is your weather that must perpetually look down on California, winter or no!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 06:01 PM

OK then.

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:58 PM

I'm a little surprised that McCain mentioned two young Republican governors not including Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, who reportedly turned down the VP slot before Palin was ever considered.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 07:38 AM

Jan. 14, 2009 | Dear Camille,

Dick Cavett is someone whose column I almost always enjoy very much. But I agree that he put down Sarah Palin's use of language for no good reason. The example he cited (she was discussing Darfur and what Alaska had done in view of events there) was an almost perfect example of coherent thought on her part if you recognize that a longish sentence includes a parenthetical aside.

Here is the bit he cites in his column: "My concern has been the atrocities there in Darfur and the relevance to me with that issue as we spoke about Africa and some of the countries there that were kind of the people succumbing to the dictators and the corruption of some collapsed governments on the continent, the relevance was Alaska's investment in Darfur with some of our permanent fund dollars."

Here is my own very minor rework of her sentence (rework in italics): "My concern has been the atrocities there in Darfur and the relevance to me with that issue (as we spoke about Africa and some of the countries there where we see the people succumbing to the dictators and the corruption of some collapsed governments on the continent), the relevance was Alaska's investment in Darfur with some of our permanent fund dollars."

When she spoke, the sense of what she meant was clear, and a minor edit makes the sentence good enough for a print medium.

No doubt she can be attacked in several areas on substance, but it is interesting and strange that instead people engage in elitist attacks on her for being a hunter or for the way she talks. In point of fact, she is a very able communicator, as time will bear out, I am sure, and yet the number of people on the left who recognize her political gifts is very small.

Cavett will come back and entertain me again soon, I am sure, but this is one case where he's just lost his objectivity and comes off sounding like a prig.

Blaine Walgren




Excellent analysis! You have cut the entire ground out from beneath Dick Cavett's lofty claim of grammatical superiority to Sarah Palin by exposing his inability to sense a simple parenthesis in a spoken passage. I laughed heartily at your e-mail, for which I am most appreciative.

As I have repeatedly said in this column, I have never had the slightest problem in understanding Sarah Palin's meaning at any time. On the contrary, I have positively enjoyed her fresh, natural, rapid delivery with its syncopated stops and slides -- a fabulous example of which was the way (in her recent interview with John Ziegler) that she used a soft, swooping satiric undertone to zing Katie Couric's dippy narcissism and to assert her own outrage as a "mama grizzly" at libels against her family.

Ideology-driven attacks on Palin became clotted liberal clichés within 24 hours of her introduction as John McCain's running mate. What a bunch of tittering lemmings the urban elite have become in this country. From Couric's vicious manipulations of video clips to Cavett's bourgeois platitudes, the preemptive strike on Palin as a potential presidential candidate has grossly misfired. Whatever legitimate objections may be raised to Palin on political grounds (explored, for example, by David Talbot in Salon) have been lost in the amoral overkill that has defamed a self-made woman of concrete achievement in the public realm.

And let me take this opportunity to say that of all the innumerable print and broadcast journalists who have interviewed me in the U.S. and abroad since I arrived on the scene nearly 20 years ago, Katie Couric was definitively the stupidest. As a guest on NBC's "Today" show during my 1992 book tour, I was astounded by Couric's small, humorless, agenda-ridden mind, still registered in that pinched, tinny monotone that makes me rush across the room to change stations whenever her banal mini-editorials blare out at 5 p.m. on the CBS radio network. And of course I would never spoil my dinner by tuning into Couric's TV evening news show. That sallow, wizened, drum-tight, cosmetic mummification look is not an appetite enhancer outside of Manhattan or L.A. There's many a moose in Alaska with greater charm and pizazz.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 08:29 AM

It's amazing to me that they keep going after her months after the election is over.

                  If Caroline Kennedy had Palin's credentials, she'd be a shoo-in.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 12:54 PM

How do you pronounce a parenthesis?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 10:43 PM

"...Couric's small, humorless, agenda-ridden mind, still registered in that pinched, tinny monotone that makes me rush across the room to change stations whenever her banal mini-editorials blare out at 5 p.m. on the CBS radio network. " from article

Question: How does one get a "pinched, tinny monotone" to "blare out"?

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:03 AM

Shara who????

Goodnight Shara, the sun has already set on your future

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:21 AM

"Question: How does one get a "pinched, tinny monotone" to "blare out"? "

Two ways.

1. The speaker has to get really close to the microphone...or...
2. You turn the controls up to "11". (grin)

Even a whisper blares out when your radio or TV is turned up to "11".

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:17 AM

"How do you pronounce a parenthesis?"


                   With a pee!

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM

I believe ya Bruce, but thousands wouldn't.

Give it a rest, already.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:22 PM

Greg F - 14 Dec, 1232 - I certainly hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:54 PM

Unfortunately, though, the way things are shaping up, everyone is gearing their fund raising efforts after Obama's, since he demonstrated the one with the most money always wins.

                  So you will have the right-wing-religious-wakkos raising money through their "faith based" web sites, and the left-wing-looneys raising money through organizations like MoveOn.org. Every body else will be cut out of the process.
                  It's a scenario that plays right into Sarah Palin's hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM

Hey, Sarah is a looker but let's get real here.... She wouldn't know a Washington Post from any non-Ripple bottle of wine...

George Bush is "Exhibit A" on why the country doesn't need any more stupid people in charge...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:23 PM

Sarah Palin strikes me as a tough character with a lot of staying power. Not the type one really needs to feel "sorry" for, exactly, because she can take care of herself. I think there may be more to see from Sarah in the future.

Her instinct that there is a form of class prejudice behind the gleeful attacks mounted on her by various liberal pundits are quite correct...though that's not all there is to it, of course. But it's the flip side of the kind of class prejudice that the Right dumps on someone who is deemed to be a "liberal" like Obama...calling him an "elitist" because he talks so intelligently and gracefully...either way, it's a form of class prejudice that is being pandered to, one class or another, it's the tactics of divisiveness, and it's a form of prejudice pandered to very willingly by both the Right and the Left in America whenever they find it serves usefully for their cause.

They just pick different targets, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:56 PM

Well, LH, what you are overlookin' is George Bush... The ultimate anti-intellectual... Look where that got US...

Intellect warfare aside, I think that folks have figured out that uneducated people don't run the joint too good...

Sarah Palin, like it or not, ain't all that educated... I mean, if you can't even rememeber two words- Washington Post- then it does make ya' wonder just how well the gal did back at Mayberry Tech...

(But, Bobert.... That sounds snobbish...)

Yeah, I guess it does... And I guess that most Americans will remember George Bush for a long, long time...

Sorry, Sarah...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:28 PM

Bobert - How long do you really think people will remember Georgie? They elected him only 12 years after they got rid of Ronald-pig-fuckin'-Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:31 PM

George Bush in office was simply unforgettable, Bobert. Astounding, in fact. You can't lower the bar much further than that, can you?

I think Sarah Palin is way smarter than George Bush, but I don't much like her philosophical outlook. I admire her pluckiness, but not her ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:38 PM

Frankly, I think Reagan was way worse than Bush II.

Subject: RE: BS: Should we feel sorry for Palin?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:42 PM

In some respects I would tend to agree with you on that. Reagan was truly scary.