BS: USB connectors, useless or what?

Subject: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:40 PM

Sorry but I have to shout at someone.
WHO IS THE IDIOT WHO APPROVED THE DESIGN OF THE USB SOCKET?
(There I feel better already.)
After a whole life in the technical side of Broadcasting using plugs and sockets systems that you could conect with one hand and often in confined spaces or even in the dark, I am constantly frustrated with this modern daft sesign.
Oh yes its small, it's pretty and when finally connected it does its job. But the damn thing has no natural orientation seeking ability - is it even upside down?
Oh and of course the modern trend of moulded symbols the same colour as the base material does not help even with the lights on.

(Oh I feel a lot better now)

I despaired at the equally badly designed SCART system. Always round the back in the dark, no sense of orentation seeking again and of course black on black when you start furkling around with a torch......

Right - I'm going for a lie down now!!!

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM

You're right about the USB, a right pig trying to plug in the back of the computer.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:46 PM

I don't plug mine in in the back. I have plugs in the front and can see where things are supposed to go in.

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:53 PM

One queer thing is that on many computers, the front and the back ports behave differently. On the one in front of me, you can charge flashlights, phones etc. from the front USB sockets, but not the back- the load has to be a properly responding USB device or it gets no supper. And the back sockets will supply 500mA each, but the front ones only 500mA between them. I suspect it's something to do with USB1/2 changes.

And if USB is bad, what about the sound card connections?

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:57 PM

I have a USB port that is boosted with a power plug (I have a gazillion things plugged in around my computer, so what is one more?) and this sits right behind my monitor where I can easily reach past and plug stuff in. On that one I mostly have things that stay plugged in so I can use the three on the front of the computer, along with the firewire plug, for temporary connections.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:57 PM

I've had problems in the past, but I'm sorted now! (with USB connectors, that is)

The metal of the plug has a seam on the 'bottom'.

Every socket I've found is in that orientation. Oh, except those that are sideways. For these, the 'bottom' is almost always the bottom of the motherboard, and so the nearest side of the case.

So, look at the plug, hold it the right way, and Robert's your mother's brother.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:06 PM

I love the USB. Best thing since sliced bread.

Obviously not suitable for caggy handed people. big grin :-)

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:17 PM

If it doesn't go in, take my tip: use a hammer.

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:20 PM

Whatever happened to Firewire connections? I thought it was supposed to be the fastest connection? I have a Firewire connector for my DVD camcorder and it's not only easy to see which way up it goes in the socket (!), it's also very speedy.

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:57 PM

Little smiley face looks up at you...

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 02:23 PM

>>If it doesn't go in, take my tip: use a hammer. <<

Treat it like a woman. Gently feel around until you have found the hotspot and then gently push it in. LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM

FIrewire is faster, yes; but I believe USB is better at dealing with multiple nodes or devices. Rule 1: Do not try to plug things into your computer in the dark. Instead, shut the damn thing down if you must, rotate it and shine a light on the plug and insert same.

For most devices a table-top hub can be used that leaves all its ports in easy reach and view. The exceptions are those devices that are supersensitive to the slight voltage drop because of using the hub.


A

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:54 PM

Guess what I'm getting for Christmas? A HUB! Poor people with old or cheap computers can have it on TOP of the computer, in the light, plugged into the back permanently! Cheap ones cost about US$5.
My current solution is four wires permanently plugged in (to the back) and taped to the computer. This ensures that you don't brush against the thumb drive or bluetooth drive and wreck it, as you can with front or side ports.

I do have a front tray to fit into the thing with 4 USB ports, earphone, mike and soundcard sockets. Unfortunately they are USB1 ports, which is why the tray is still in a box, and not between the CD and DVD drives.

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:11 PM

I don't know... I can't find my MP3 USB to see if it is useless or not! SOMEONE (Manitas) has been tidying up here.... Grrrrrr

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:28 PM

USB? Simple, straightforward, easy to use. All you need to do is look at the thing to see which is the top and the bottom--not unlike grounded (three-pronged) plugs.

On the laptop I'm using right now, I have three such sockets. I use a chordless USB "laser" mouse, and nearby I have a USB floppy-drive. Also nearby is a safely stashed flash drive that I can carry in a pocket and use on any computer that has a USB port. I also have a Zoom H2 digital recorder (SD card) that connects to the computer with a USB chord for either downloading the contents of the card or I can use it as an interface and record directly onto my hard disk. My wife has an identical laptop and she downloads her digital camera to it with a USB chord.

My laser printer connects with a USB chord, and so does the scanner. I also have a Lexicon Omega analog-to-digital interface "desktop recording studio" that connects to a computer with a USB chord (on the other hand, the inputs for my two condenser mics plug into the Omega through XLR connections that also supply phantom power, and a couple of quarter-inch plugs, which I don't usually use).

One simple gizmo. I also have a large box that contains a snake's nest of different cables with about eleventy-fourteen different kinds of plugs and sockets that the USB connections rendered obsolete.

Yippee! And furthermore, Hooray!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:39 PM

I use a chordless USB "laser" mouse

I should swap it, Don. If you're mouse won't accompany you, what use is it?

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:40 PM

Damn, Damn, Damn!!

I try to be funny about a typo, and make one of my own.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:05 PM

So it's an a cappella mouse. Big deal.


Pausing for reflection, it is sheer madness how many things people do with these boxes compared even to just ten years ago--music, movies, graphics, instant messages, email, documents, instant world maps and street directions, satellite views of every town in the world...it is just mind-bogglin'!


A

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:06 PM

Uh . . . Okay, I'm lost. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:08 PM

It wouldn't be so bad if a) there was another that fitted the MP3 player but there isn't or b) he actually cared about it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:12 PM

Jeri "I don't plug mine in in the back. I have plugs in the front and can see where things are supposed to go in."

Yup. I'm a frontloader myself. Life's too short to fiddle around at the tradesman's entrance.

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:13 PM

"CHORD-less." Okay, got it. Boy, am I slow today!!

(Sorta like "vocal chords.")

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:22 PM

An a cappella mouse - would that be Our Monica?


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:34 PM

>>Yup. I'm a frontloader myself. Life's too short to fiddle around at the tradesman's entrance. <<

Doggy fashion is nice LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Deckman
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:36 PM

Don ... I was THERE when you married Barbara. In case you forgot ... one of your wedding vows was: "No more dirty talk!" Remember! SHEEUH! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:55 PM

Criminy!! Thirty-one years on the 17th of this month!

(Thanks for the reminder!!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:12 PM

My computer has SIX USB ports - all full. The horizontal ones in front are easy to access because I just have to make sure the little USB emblem on the plug is on top - I have a devil of a time with the vertical jacks in the rear of the cumputer, so I plug the permanent stuff in there - to reduce the frequency of my frustration. Yeah, I suppose it would be nice if it were a little more clear how to orient the plug, but that part of it ain't horrible.

Now, what REALLY bugs me is the wide variety of miniature plugs, for cell phones and MP3 players and cameras and bluetooth and whatnot. I think I have five different sizes of miniature plugs, and they drive me crazy. The standardization of the USB cable was a wonderful idea - I wonder how they lost control on the miniature plugs.

I am very happy with the speed of USB 2.0, except that it's a little slow for hard drives and large flash drives and for transfer of data between computers. Years ago, I bought a parallel cable to transfer data to a new computer, and that was ridiculously slow. USB is a huge improvement over that. I used a portable USB hard drive to transfer data to this computer when moved to Vista two years ago.

I'll be glad when USB 3.0 comes into general use in a year or two. It's supposed to be much faster, and backwards-compatible with USB 2.0 and 1.0.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:00 PM

Most USB plugs do have a "seam" on the bottom of the connector. I've seen only one that has the seam on the top, on a "special purpose portable device."

Standard practice is to have the "USB Symbol" - that looks a bit like Poseiden's Pitchfork after a shipwreck - on the top of the connector, but on quite a few of my cables the symbol is almost impossible to see, even with a bright light and magnifying optical aids. (I buy some really cheap stuff, sometimes.)

The connector also, if inspected very carefully, will be seen to be very slightly wider on the top edge than on the bottom. This is sometimes with "slanted sides" and sometimes just with a very slightly projecting "ridge" on the top edge. Sometimes it's easier to "feel" the taper than to see it. The "ridge" style is especially common in alternate "mini" and "micro" connectors as used for cameras and other "intemittently connected" devices.

It may be necessary to distinguish between USB PORTS and USB SOCKETS. Although many computers have numerous sockets (holes to plug into), its common for all of them to be connected (inside the computer) to a single Port. The "port" is the "logical identity" that the computer uses to know which device to exchange data with.

Some computers may have USB connectors front and back. It's common for all of the front connectors to be on one port, and all of the rear ones to be on a separate one. But sometimes half of the front and back ones are on one with the other half of both on the other. (Your computer maker probably won't tell you which is which.)

The USB port is intended to be able to supply power to the connected device(s) but is limited to 500 mA per device. The "card" or "chips on motherboard" that manage the built in ports may, however, not be able to supply the full 500 mA to all of the connectors on the computer. Most USB devices don't need the maximum (500 mA) power from the USB port, but some do. External hard drives are among the ones most likely to need full power.

An external hub lets you plug the hub into one USB socket on the computer, and plug several USB devices into the hub. Hubs may be "passive" or "powered." For a passive hub, the computer connection can (should) supply only the 500 mA provided by the USB connector on the computer to run all of the devices plugged into the hub. Passive hubs usually are fine to take along with a laptop, just in case you need to read/write a flash drive or download from a camera; but for desktop or other heavily used application a powered hub is recommended.

With a powered hub, the computer supplies up to the 500 mA to the hub, for getting data in and out of it; but a separate "wall wart" transformer supplies the 500 mA (where needed) to the devices plugged into the hub. If you're connecting external hard drives through a hub, or just connecting lots of "stuff" there, a powered hub is recommended.

In principle, a single USB port can manage 8 attached devices logically - subject to the power capacity limits mentioned. A hub appears to the port it plugs into as a single device, and can itself manage (logically) 8 attached devices. Most computers, and most hubs, don't "push the envelope" and offer at most 7 connections to a port for devices. Four and five port passive hubs are probably most common.

Theoretically if you attached a 7-port hub to each of the 7 device connections on the computer's port, you could connect 49 USB devices. WinXP and later will handle the "logical management" pretty much automatically. Win2K should be okay, but is more likely to need some setup help.

Each hub that you connect requires the computer (look in network setup) to creat a "bridge" to block "circulating error loops,"¹ and connecting many hubs (too many bridges) is a possible way of bogging down the whole computer, so it has been advised that one should not exceed 15 total USB devices on a single computer. That advice came when USB-1 was still common, and you might be able to push it a bit more with USB-2; but it probably is still a good rule to follow.

¹ Each hub is, for logical/data-exchange purposes, a separate "network."

I've had up to 4 USB hubs connected temporarily in WinXP and in Vista, with no problems; but the total simultaneous devices I've tried hasn't gone past 11, I believe, at one time.

There is sometimes a slight transmission² delay when communicating with a device through a hub, and Plug-N-Play may occasionally have difficulty identifying a device that's on the "other end" of a hub; so certain kinds of devices should still be plugged directly into the built in computer port(s) where possible. USB keyboards and mouses, and bidirectional printers that send data both ways to/from the computer are some that usually will recommend (in setup instructions) that the USB connection should be directly to the computer.

² The delay may be because more than one device is "talking" at the same time, and the hub input/output for one may, intermittently, have to wait until the other device shuts up.

When USB-2 began to be popular, it was warned that connecting one USB-1 device to a USB-2 port (with USB-2 devices on other connectors for the port) required that all external USB devices communicate at USB-1 speed. Current USB-2 devices mostly can select the drop-down speed for the USB-1 device(s) without slowing down the USB-2 ones; but you may still find some accessories, especially passive hubs, with the one-speed-for-all limitation. If you have USB-1 (originally just labelled USB) devices, you probably should check to see if a powered hub you're considering allows simultaneous separate speeds. (But if doesn't matter if the computer doesn't provide USB-2 ports.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: USB connectors, useless or what?
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 03:53 AM

Just retuned in, and saw the bit about Amos' a capella mouse.
That must be a poor sort of thing.

Or is that only church mice?


Never used the term myself. Most of the songs that I sing unaccompanied, I would NEVER sing in a chapel!