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BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)

Phot 14 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Dec 08 - 04:05 PM
pdq 14 Dec 08 - 04:14 PM
Amos 14 Dec 08 - 05:48 PM
Phot 14 Dec 08 - 05:55 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Dec 08 - 05:58 PM
Gurney 14 Dec 08 - 11:49 PM
Noreen 15 Dec 08 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Dec 08 - 11:30 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Dec 08 - 12:54 PM
Newport Boy 15 Dec 08 - 05:15 PM
number 6 15 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Dec 08 - 06:25 PM
Rowan 15 Dec 08 - 08:12 PM
Phot 16 Dec 08 - 04:14 AM
Newport Boy 16 Dec 08 - 06:33 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Dec 08 - 02:32 PM
Phot 26 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM
Phot 01 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM
Bill D 01 Jun 09 - 12:49 PM
gnu 01 Jun 09 - 08:58 PM
Phot 02 Jun 09 - 02:47 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jun 09 - 03:31 AM
Phot 02 Jun 09 - 08:26 AM
JohnInKansas 02 Jun 09 - 10:07 AM
frogprince 02 Jun 09 - 10:30 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jun 09 - 11:44 AM
Phot 03 Jun 09 - 03:20 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Jun 09 - 03:57 AM
JohnInKansas 03 Jun 09 - 05:33 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Jun 09 - 05:46 AM
Phot 03 Jun 09 - 07:23 AM
Phot 19 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM
robomatic 20 Jun 09 - 03:04 PM
frogprince 20 Jun 09 - 09:19 PM
Phot 21 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM
Midchuck 21 Jun 09 - 04:31 PM
Phot 21 Jun 09 - 05:11 PM
Phot 24 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM
Phot 05 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM

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Subject: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM

The time has come, for the old girl to have an awful lot of TLC. Yes I'm mad, Fiona I think, is just humouring me.

So you for petrol heads out there, the recipe is, take one very early Landrover Discovery, throw away the body, add a two inch suspension lift, locking rear diff, a 4.6 V8 instead of the usual 3.5, which will be on carbs(Anyone know what needles to use on SU Hif4 carbs?) A high lift cam( Kent R380) Ported and polished heads, possibly an R380 box(Stronger) Janspeed headers(4-2-1) Custom exhaust from Elite(Good chaps in Aldershot) Exiting on both sides, just the right side of, Loud. me? Officer?!..............I thought there was a silencer in there............. honest!

Replacement body will be a severely cut down 110 Defender, bikini roof, works roll cage, twin Safari Systems snorkels, colour will be blue, or black...............Black is good

wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:05 PM

SUs are fairly easy to tune. Just take steady state mixture readings every 500 rpm and consult your needle charts to see what to try next. Will you be running 2, or 4?

You will need to give propshaft alignment some vary careful thought - relying on the UJs will soon lead to problems.

If you are really going for offroad rather than show, you may want to reconsider your tuning plans - you want torque, not revs.

Your other big issue is going to be axles and FWHubs.    Will Disco diffs stand it? And will you need an ultra-high high on the trasnfer box or will you go the separate overdrive route?

If you are going to be serious in the mud, you may want to consider tractor exhausts, but angled and running between roof and any roofrack, not vertical (verticals are very vulnerable to low branches).

Wading capability?

I've been out in a couple of things like this - Colin Dawson's high-lift hybrid and Nij Reed-Rees's Safari bobtail Rangie...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: pdq
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:14 PM

You may need to lower the gear ratio a bit when going from a V8 to a V6 engine.

The smaller engine doesn't have as much torque at low RPMs and will lug.

If the ratio is now 3.54 or 3.73, try 4.10. That is low enough for many 4 cyl engines and ideal for most V6s, providing you keep a reasonably normal tire size.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Amos
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:48 PM

Wow, this thread is going to be fun to watch!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:55 PM

Its still going to be a V8! That wonderful bit of kit that Detroit decided to sell to us, cheers fellas!

The transfer box will stay as standard, as will all gear ratios. Tractor exhausts are not an option, the old girl will have to be road legal. Freewheel hubs are not an option, after a series 111.

That said, one of the lasses I work with, has the best looking 107'' truck cab. She may have great legs, but I'll have the Series 1

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:58 PM

Breed your old vehicle with a horse. Perhaps a useful hybrid will emerge. A mulerover perhaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 11:49 PM

Phot, phone SU. In days of yore, they had settings documented for most engines on Earth, it seemed like.

Paint it mud-colour. Saves time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:10 AM

What language is this written in?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:30 AM

Is this another one of those StarTrek threads? How soon before someone starts casting aspersions on Captain Kirk?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:54 PM

Wow! Not many 107s still around. I know a bloke with a alloy bulkhead 86 though.

When did tractor exhausts become illegal? Still on tractors and (behind the cab) on many lorries - albeit with heat shielding round them.

Yes, it was the Series IIA that taught me about freewheel hubs! I'd still like to have my old Series IIA 109 - if sorted. She was a 2.6 - and have you looked at the torque figures on those? I fancied a small GMC supercharger on her really. The IIA box was much tougher than the Series III


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Newport Boy
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:15 PM

I don't know why you want to go to all this trouble. What's wrong with a basic SWB?

My favourite was my first - a 1967 Mk IIA canvas top with the petrol engine. The only extra fitted was a heater. It would do well over 70mph on a good road, and would go anywhere on site.

I remember using the cutting slope to avoid some drainage excavation. My passenger tried to get out - well, he was on the 'down' side, and it was a 1 in 2.5 slope.

Most of my driving was in various 12-seat Safari models. The petrol engines were fine, but the diesels needed a lot of nursing with a full load.

Enjoy the project - I'll keep an eye on progress.

Phil


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: number 6
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM

Land Rovers .... unrealiable over priced pieces of junk.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:25 PM

There is not much that can touch a Land Rover on its home turf. The Willys has agility, but no LSD and very limited load capacity. The Champ was excellent but had poor side-slope stability and a non-squaddy-proof back axle. All current US 4*4s are just too big. There was a seriously ugly French thing with a monoblock construction and the 2.1 Peugeot diesel that was usable, but it suffered from poor articulation.

If you want to know about unreliable, try a Mahindra - conceptually fine but badly assembled and very rust-prone.

If you want something you can fix in the middle of a desert or forest with a basic toolkit that will then go on and save your life - Land Rover.

Some of the Jap stuff has merits - if you want to carry an oscilloscope in your repair kit! The early Toyota that never came to the UK (what was it, LJ40 or something) was the best of them - a number still surviving in Africa and the Oz outback.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Rowan
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:12 PM

For only one or two persons on short trips a Haflinger was about right but a bit slow.

I still miss my Land Rover Forward Control, even though I now sustain a bank balance in the black. It was fox shooter's vehicle and then a bushfire brigade vehicle before I ran school camps with it. The bloke I sold it to fitted it out with a sound-blimped generator that put out enough electricity for a small town and, the last I heard, it was the power supply for the making of the film "Gallipoli", back in South Australia's outback.

The first Toyotas in Oz had a motor that anyone would have thought was a Chev 6 cylinder by General Motors (carbys and all), except that every nut and bolt was metric. With the gear lever position for Reverse where everything else put First, most road users learned not to be the one immediately behind a Toyota at the lights.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:14 AM

The main reason for building a Hybrid is just for the hell of it! The Disco body is shot, to rebuild that, I'd be looking at both front inner wings, slam panel, major bulkhead repair, nearside inner, and outer sills, rear inner arches, and probably a new boot floor! The chassis is sound, as are the axles, trans and main boxes, so there you have it!

I have a fully equipped motor club where I'm stationed now, so better make use of it, rather than prop up the bar at night!

Sorry Richard, I got confused about the old ones that used to come up through the front wings!

I'm hoping to put a website together which will cover the entire project, I'll let you know when its up and running.

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Newport Boy
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:33 AM

There is not much that can touch a Land Rover on its home turf.

I agree, Richard. A few years ago in Ethiopia, we hired two Toyota Land Cruisers with drivers for a 5-day trip. Both fairly old, both with cart springs. Teddy, who owned and maintained them, had two more. One was more recent, with coil springs, and was less reliable off the main roads. He also had an old LWB Land Rover - not as comfortable for long days, but he kept it "because it will always recover the Land Cruisers when they get stuck".

Phil


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:32 PM

All right - I left out the Haf. It's more a motorbike with 4 wheels than a car or truck, and the stupidest approach and departure angles in the world - all on 600cc. The only thing that defeats it is climbing out of a stream - at which point it submerges the rear engine and drowns! Remeber them in the old Dartford quarries as vehicles for aliens in Dr Who?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM

Sorry for the delay all you petrolheads, but the strip down will start on Tuesday! The long term bay is booked, I've blagged a camera from work, and a couple of mates (Mad fools!) have offered to help, at least for the fun bits! I'll start a flikr page, or Facebook if you are on that.

Stay tuned!.........Sorry about the pun!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

Ok! So it got delayed again! But................Work starts tonight! Hurrah!!

First job is to get all the external bodywork off, in preperation to lift off the shell.......Pass the WD40........

I'll post some images on Facebook at the weekend.

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:49 PM

You need to be careful in these projects ... it can get away from you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:58 PM

sIx... watched a show a while back on a hill course with nasty stuff including rock outcrops and mud. Chrysler Jeep, Toyota Cruiser, Rover... the Rover blew them away. $$$ yes, but if you got the coin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:47 AM

I'm trying to keep the budget under £5000......................

I wonder if I can claim it on expenses?..*g*

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:31 AM

What's the facebook link?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 08:26 AM

None yet, as I can't access facebook at work, but I'll get someting sorted at the weekend. If you find me on facebook my profile picture is a Blue Discovery, and I'm a member of the Land Rover Orphanage group.

Just found out there are two other Landies in the motor club bays at the moment. Just as well its not mating season, we'd have baby Freelanders everywhere!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 10:07 AM

The only thing that defeats it is climbing out of a stream - at which point it submerges the rear engine and drowns!

Doesn't that just mean you should always back it out?

You couldn't drive a Model T up a hill, because there was no fuel pump and if the carburetor was higher than the gas tank the engine quit. But you could back one up over almost anything.

In the mid 60s, Ford made something I think they called the "Scout" that the Army used for Administrative Vehicles. It couldn't get more than about 100 feet up anything over about a 20% grade, because the float bowl was on the front of the carb, and if the nose went up it spilled fuel into the bore and flooded the engine; but you could back it up a 48% grade with no problems, as I did for more than 50 miles one week at Flagstaff AZ while running "high altitude" tests on the XM410E1 ca '65.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: frogprince
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 10:30 AM

John, John,...you, of all people!

Ford BRONCO!
International SCOUT! : / (That's a smiley with Bell's Palsy)


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:44 AM

Possibly John, but if you have directional tread tractor tyres on then they clog with mud


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:20 AM

After having stood for 6 months without any care at all, the battery was major league flat last night, hopefully 24 hours on charge should see the old girl started tonight. But spent a useful 3 hours checking out the state of the chassis, axles and other bits I'm using for the rebuild, the good news is that there is only light surface rust which is easily treatable.

The bodyshell however................Nomine Padre, est spiritus sanctus....etc!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:57 AM

I bet you that battery is now terminally phosphated...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:33 AM

frogprince -

It has been forty years since I drove one, and I didn't care much for them at the time.

RB -

There is a supposed "treatment" for phosphated batteries, but it requires overcharging at high amperage (which sometimes results in exploding) and seldom actually works more than briefly.

In the past the treatment was used by a few shops, since it gives the appearance of a "rejuvenated" batter long enough to collect a fee and watch the vehicle roll out of the shop; and the victim customer will be back for a new battery in about three days (average).

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:46 AM

Yes John, overcharging often warps the plates too. There used to be little pills you could drop into the electrolyte to dephosphate a battery, but the only time I ever tried them they did not work, and I ahve not seen them for many years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory
From: Phot
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:23 AM

As long as I can start the engine to move the Disco into the motor club, that will be enough!

There will be a split charge system fitted when I fit the electrics, and I'll be fitting gel type batteries.

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Phot
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM

Yep, plates screwed! So three of us shoved the old girl into the shop, put her up on the ramps and...............Just what is holding the body to the chassis?

At least the chassis is good, with no holes!

Time to get the body off..............Lets get nekked!........Pass the Plasma cutter!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 03:04 PM

while we're volunteering out-of-the-box repair arcana let me put forth one from a book called "Herman the German" when you spring a radiator leak, add some horse manure to the system and it will provide a plug, Herman wrote that it was a trick he learned in pre-war Germany and later used to good effect in P-51 Mustangs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 09:19 PM

?? When you're flying along in your P-51, and it springs a leak, look for some horse manure to put in the radiator??


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Phot
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM

I'd hope the groundcrew would notice before start-up!

Spent the day at Dunsfold yesterday, and got all the measurements from one of the original 100" prototypes, and about a hundred refrence images to help the project along.

If any petrol heads out there fancy going next year, go! There is a really good beer tent, camping, craft fair, and hundreds of Lode Lanes finest! This was the biggest gathering of Sreies ones I've seen, and if you have a Landy, you park in the show ground, other, lesser marques park in the car park! (This year that included a TR6, TR4a, Ford Popular, Daimler Dart, Sunbeam Alpine, Dodge Charger, Boss Mustang........)

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 04:31 PM

...And the finished product will look like this?

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Phot
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 05:11 PM

Close Peter...............But no cigar!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Phot
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM

The teardown started last night, both front wings are off, and now I can see the real state of play!

I will put images on Facebook this weekend, the state of the inner wings has to be seen to be belived!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Hybrid Theory (cars)
From: Phot
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM

Two weeks worth of images are now on Facebook.

Wassail!! Chris


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