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Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince

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OH COME ALL YE FAITHFUL


Related thread:
(origins) Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful (50)


VirginiaTam 18 Dec 08 - 03:36 PM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 08 - 03:45 PM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 08 - 03:48 PM
VirginiaTam 18 Dec 08 - 04:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM
Tim Leaning 18 Dec 08 - 05:08 PM
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Subject: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:36 PM

Don't know how legit this is but I heard on BBC Radio 4 this morning that Adestes Fideles (O Come All Ye Faithful) is really a Jacobite song honouring Bonny Prince Charles.

"Fideles is Faithful Catholic Jacobites. Bethlehem is a common Jacobite cipher for England, and Regem Angelorum is a well-known pun on Angelorum, angels and Anglorum, English.

"The meaning of the Christmas carol is clear: 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of Angels' really means, 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of the English' - Bonnie Prince Charlie."

read more here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/7789477.stm


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Subject: RE: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:45 PM

It will be interesting to see what we come up with. Here's what's in the Traditional Ballad Index:

Adeste Fideles (O Come All Ye Faithful)

DESCRIPTION: Latin: "Adeste fideles, laeti triumphantes, venite, venite in Bethlehem." English: "O come, all ye faithful, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to Bethlehem."
AUTHOR: probably John Francis Wade
EARLIEST DATE: 1760 (Anglican church office manual); probably written c. 1740
KEYWORDS: religious nonballad foreignlanguage
FOUND IN: US
REFERENCES (6 citations):
RJackson-19CPop, p. 1, "Adeste Fideles" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 380, "O, Come, All Ye Faithful" (1 text)
Fuld-WFM, p. 86, "Adeste Fideles"
DT, ADESTFID*
ADDITIONAL: Charles Johnson, One Hundred and One Famous Hymns (Hallberg, 1982), p. 45, "O Come, All Ye Faithful" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ian Bradley, _The Penguin Book of Carols_ (1999), #5, "Adeste, Fideles" (1 text); #53, "O Come, All Ye Faithful" (1 text)

RECORDINGS:
Criterion Quartet, "Oh, Come, All Ye Faithful" (Victor 16197-B, 1908)
BROADSIDES:
LOCSheet, sm1871 08939, "Adeste Fideles," Wm. J Bonner & Co (Philadelphia), 1871(tune)
Notes: The first American printing of this piece (A Latin version of c. 1803) subtitles it "The favorite PORTUGUESE HYMN On the NATIVITY," but there is no particular reason to consider it Portuguese; according to Scholes in The Oxford Companion to Music, this title derives in fact from the Portugese Chapel in London.
The piece is believed to have been composed in the early 1740s by John Francis Wade, who also wrote the Latin words. Scholes reports an Irish manuscript of the tune dated 1746, and a variation on the theme was listed as an "Air Anglais" in the French Vaudeville "Acajou" in 1744. The rather loose English translation by Frederick Oakley appeared in 1852, based on Oakley's earlier 1841 translation.
Fuld gives details on other possible sources for both text and tune; all are possible, but not particularly likely. Substantiating details are lacking.
Recent scholarship has brought an interesting twist on this history. According to the Penguin Book of Carols, there are six manuscripts of this in the handwriting of John Francis Wade. The one of these thought to be oldest contains a reference to "regem nostrum Jacobum" -- "our King James," i.e. the Jacobite Old Pretender. And, of course, "regem angelorum" is quite close to "regem Angliorem," "King of England." There are also hints of Catholic practice in this manuscript. Whether all this really amounts to anything is, of course, an open question. - RBW
File: RJ19001

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
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The Ballad Index Copyright 2007 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:48 PM

Here's the BBC article that Virginia Tam refers to, posted since such things tend to disappear in time:
    Carol is 'ode to Bonnie Prince'

    One of the most popular Christmas carols has a secret political code linked to the Jacobite rebellion, a Durham University professor claims.

    According to head of music Bennett Zon, O Come All Ye Faithful is actually a birth ode to Bonnie Prince Charlie. He said "clear references" to the prince were in the lyrics, written by John Francis Wade in the 18th Century. The prince was defeated at the Battle of Culloden in 1746 after raising an army to take the English throne. Born shortly before Christmas in December 1720, Bonnie Prince Charlie was the grandson of England's last Catholic monarch, James II. He was born in exile in Italy and became the focus for Catholic Jacobite rebels intent on restoring the House of Stuart to the English throne.

    'Popular consciousness'

    In 1745, he raised an army to invade the British Isles, taking Edinburgh, but was defeated at Culloden in April 1746. Prof Zon said there was "far more" to the carol - also known as Adeste Fideles - than was originally thought. He said: "Fideles is Faithful Catholic Jacobites. Bethlehem is a common Jacobite cipher for England, and Regem Angelorum is a well-known pun on Angelorum, angels and Anglorum, English. "The meaning of the Christmas carol is clear: 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of Angels' really means, 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of the English' - Bonnie Prince Charlie." Professor Zon said the Jacobite meaning of the carol gradually faded as the cause lost its grip on popular consciousness. He added: "The real meaning of the carol, remains, however. Although whose birth we choose to celebrate in it remains a matter of personal decision."

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/wear/7789477.stm

    Published: 2008/12/18 11:10:21 GMT
I don't know if I buy the idea of a Jacobite genesis of this song, but it's interesting.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:03 PM

Ya never know.... it may be like the DaVinci Code codswollop.

But it is interesting and thought some reference to it should be on the MC.


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Subject: RE: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM

Who wrote the item for the BBC- Hamish M'Hamish?
Who is 'Prof. Zon'?


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Subject: RE: Origins: O Come All Ye Faithful:Ode Bonny Prince
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:08 PM

Well whether tis true or not
the presenters reaction to the Profs pronunciation of Birth ode
was priceless
I nearl crashed me van.


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