BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:31 PM

I hate to disrupt all the opinion with fact... Well... here is a transcript from MSNBC. cite included...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28683246/

As the cabin took on water, Sullenberger climbed out of the jet only after the four other crew members and 150 passengers made their orderly exit. When he reached a raft, someone on a ferry tossed him a knife, and he cut away the tether to the jet.

One by one, the passengers were plucked to safety from the rafts, Hood and Sullenberger the last ones left. The passenger insisted the pilot get off first, but Sullenberger refused. He had been the last off the plane, and he would be the last off the raft.

_____________
Now, to really cut through the opinion, you have to go to the origional stories, and see what witnesses said. In the Villager interview with the Sosa family, you will see that not all the passingers had access to rafts. The coach passingers had to climb out onto the wings - where, by luck, the plane stayed afloat until they were rescued. There is still a question about why the plane floated as long as it did... it fully sank next to the sea wall at Battery Park, where I photographed it.
As you see above, he was the last one out of the rafts. However, armed with the Sosa interview, you realize that the statement above fails to take into account the people still in danger on the wings while he is in the raft. Mr. Sosa fell off the wing into the water at one point, as did several others, who were pulled back onto the wing by fellow passingers. There was an element of luck in the fact that no one died.
All the best
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:01 PM

Nah, I'm no hero... I was trained to land Piper Cubs up my own ass.... That's why they call them planes "tail draggers"...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:56 PM

BOBERTZ MIRACULOUSLY LANDS PIPER CUB FAR UP HIS ASS---OLESKO PROCLAIMS HIM HERO!!! FIRTH AND OTHERS APPLAUD WHILE BOBERTZ INSPECTS SIGMOID COLON!!!

Bobertz takes no credit; say he does it all the time.

FILM AT 11






Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:30 PM

No, my facts are what they always were.

The man is a hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:24 PM

Oh, so now you have demoted yer fact to opinion... That's a good start, Ron... A good start indeed...

And I can accept that my opinion may not be the "popular" opinion but I do not accept that my opinion is unhealthy of yours is more healthy... Frankly, I don't even know what health has to do with it one way or another since my opinion isn't really hurting anyone or making them sick... And, conversely, yer's ain't curing anyone of theis illnesses???

But attacking my statements??? Great, just so long as we stay outta that area where one side or the other "proclaims" their opinions to be chizzeled-in-stone facts... That's were the discussion is no longer a discussion... Know what I mean???

That's really what this thread is about... People tend to look at things differently...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

Bobert - I have always respected your RIGHT to have an opinion, but I do NOT have to respect that opinion.   

I am attacking the statements you have made and countering them. If you cannot accept that, I really do not give a rats ass. It becomes evident that your"opinion" cannot hold up to scrutiny. Don't try to hide this as a being a Bush "with us or against us", surely if you read the posts that I have made your realize that is not the case.

Everyone has an opinion, it does not make them right. Bush had an opinon. Saddam had an opinion. You have one, it just is not popular nor is it healthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

I have yet to see it confirmed that he was in the lifeboat.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:34 PM

Hey, Rono...

I ain't never said that what Sully did was done well... Even admirable... I ain't even tryin' to deflate anyone's opinion that differs from mine...

What I have problems with are folks who have apoointed themselves as exclusive members of the "Hero Committee" and that their, and only their, opinions are now elevated to facts not to be questioned by the non member of the exclusive committe...

Kinda Bush "Yer either with us or against us" kinda thinking... That kinda dogma isn't about discussion... It's about control...

Hey, I couldn't give a rat's ass if 90% of the people in the world think that the guy is a hero... That's fine... That is their right...

What I object to is when those 90% think because they are in the majority that that makes their opinions facts... It does not... It just makes for a majority opinion...

I mean, look at the mad-dash-to-Iraq.... The majority opinion was that Saddam had WMDs... Problem is that time proved ther majority opinion to be false...

I mean, it's fine with me, Rono, if you want to view Sully as a hero... Really... Just please don't go throwing your opinion out as fact and please allow me the same respect to have a differing opinion that I have shown you... Por favor!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:08 PM

"However, it is a fact, he entered a raft while he had passingers in danger on the wings. "

Lorcan - could you point out where that is confirmed? Your article did not mention him being in the raft, it mentioned two "crew members" were on the raft - Sully's name is not given as being one of the crew on the raft. Also, the article is written by one of the survivors. I have not seen other stories of this type.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:47 PM

I did not say he abonded the ship. However, it is a fact, he entered a raft while he had passingers in danger on the wings. Mick, I have been an officer on ships which carried passingers. No one can say what he or she would do in the worst case ... but, we all know what is expected of us. I know, I would not have felt it proper to take my place in one of our boats when passingers were on the sinking ship, if that happened.
Everyone who has ever been on the water has taken risks, and most have risked life. We've taken risks for our passingers. What we would do when the water is rising fast around us... that is something else. I just know passingers should be taken off the ship first.
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:18 PM

Agreed Mick.    The only reason I keep taking part in this "discussion" is because the world needs more people like Sully. Many of the folks who participate in these discussions on Mudcat often can be found moaning about the state of the world, the losss of respect in our leaders, failure for contemporary artists or atheletes to be role models, etc.   Here comes a story that shows you the value of hard work, cool head, and helping each other - and yet there are people like Bobert who try to deflate it and even accuse others of "hero worship". Goddamn it, let there be hero worship in this case! It sickens me to see muckrackers try to destroy something that is good.   The article does NOT even say that Sully abandoned ship, yet there are people who are walking away from this discussion believeing that.   Of course we should always uncover the truth, but in this case it comes across as trying to find something that isn't there - or simply some people speaking out of their ass in hopes that others will believe them. Read the stories, listen to the reports. The man is a hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:11 PM

To argue that the man is not a hero, or whether he acted as a mariner would have......

It just seems that folks love to argue over such a small partof the whole that it all gets taken out of context.

I hope Sully is behind the controls of my next flight.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM

Mick, sometimes there needs to be such debates

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM

More than opinion here Bobert. Facts are facts in this case. Your definition differs from the one that most people use.

Your opinion is your own, but it doesn't make it fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:06 PM

Sometimes I just sit and shake my head at what people debate here....

Incredible.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:04 PM

Well, Ron... Like I said, that is your opinion and you can get up on the roof and yell it as loud and long as you wish but in doing so it won't change the fact that that is your opinion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:52 PM

"I don't understand how the "women and children first" test was bungled???"

That proves the point I've been trying to make to you.

Earlier you said that 99 out of 99 pilots would have landed the plane safely. We just don't know. According to this report, members of the crew jumped into a life raft - it should be noted that they do not say that Sully was one who was in the raft.

Obviously some people do not follow their training. Sully appears to have kept a level head in a time of crisis and followed procedure. 155 people got out safely. The man is a hero, no ifs ands or buts.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:40 PM

PS... If Sully ever reads this... my hat is off to him and I think he did a great job, and it all worked out for the best. But, what would have happened if he got into the raft, and the plane filled and sank killing those on the wings? It is not something that should haunt him... but I think we need to keep in mind, that which true heroism at sea refers...

lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:37 PM

Hi Don:
Do read the Villager artical linked above. I agree, he did a great job of landing the plane, but may have not met the standard which maritime captains set, when it comes to the well being of his passingers. I don't think it is proper for a captain of a vessel to get into a life boat or raft, when passingers are still on the vessel, and in this case, on a sinking plane, and in the water. Walking the plane is proper and fine, but he should have then gotten out on the wing with those for whom he was responsible.

That's just the standard set by generations of mariners. I don't know if I could have done that, but that is what it is to be a captain, not a hero. It is the responcibility of comand.
Cheers
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:32 PM

Well, that's what makes for a horse race... Differing opinions...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:21 PM

I do have trouble with the way the word "hero" is sometimes tossed around indiscriminately. Such as the little girl some years back who managed to fall into a well. All kinds of people rallied to rescue her and, thank God, got her out safely. Some newspapers and broadcast news reports hailed the little girl as a "hero." What for? She was playing where she had been told not to, almost got herself killed, managed to scare the hell out of herself, her parents, and a whole lot of other people, and cost the emergency services that rescued her a lot of taxpayers' money. Hero? Not the way I see it.

And the football player who pulls his team out of the Dumpster a few seconds before the final gun by snagging a pass and running it sixty yards down the field for a last second touchdown. Sportscasters and fans go nuts, calling the guy a "hero." No risk to his life, it is his job, and it's a game, fer heck's sake!! He's a hero?

But Sullenberger, because of his cool head, skill, and attention to the safety and well-being of his passengers? Yeah, I think he qualifies.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:10 PM

When they do heroic stuff, yeah... But just doing their jobs, however important, ain't, IMO, heroism... In other words, I think we should rethink the term as it seems that it's overused... I think stuff like "beyond the call of duty" and "extreme courage in the face of personal danger" need to be factored in...

Face it, Sully was making decsions that also were in his best survival interests by keeping the nose of the plane up... Yeah, that was also the correct way to land a plane on water but had the situation be reversed and the best way to land a plane in water would have been to take it in nose first and thereby killing the pilot and co-pilot to save the passangers and Sully had done that, yeah, I think that passes the "extreme courage in the face of personal danger" test...

Okay, it was asmirable for Sully to walk the plane twice to be sure everyone was out but once out there with the passengers I don't understand how the "women and children first" test was bungled???

I donno, Ron...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 11:54 AM

So what about doctors? Teachers? EMTS? Do you not consider them heros?

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:54 AM

What lor said....

A hero woulda made sure that the "woman and children first" rule be followed... I mean, Sully was still the Captain of the airplane/ship and that rule was not observed...

And as for being trained to jump on the grenade, I can't say that during my MST days in ROTC that we were trained to do that... Yeah, everyone kinda knows that by doing it one reduces the chances of one's buddies gettin' killed or injured but I'm not too sure that that is part of the "training" per se...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:13 AM

Well to be accurate, the proper analogy would be Sully LANDING his airplane on top of Bobert's hotel, helping everyone out of the plane, then, checking into the best rooms with the first class passengers and leaving the coach passengers, baby and all, to wait in the pool for buses to come to take them to the airport... some job well dones and a bit of... could have done better.

=)
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:25 AM

But Bobert, the guy who jumps on the grenade is trained to save people and put their own lives at risk.

What about a surgeon who saves a life?

Face it Bobert, the man is a hero as are all of these individuals. You may add something to your definition that the rest of the world doesn't, but that is the choice you force yourself to live with.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:03 AM

Nah, Ron... I've allready said on this thread that the guy who jumps on a live grenade is a hero... And that was just an example...

As fir Sully crashin' his plane into the hotel??? Bring it on, Big Guy!!!

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:44 AM

Kamikaze goose!

(Whoa! That has all kinds of possible connotations. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:34 PM

Why not just have Sully crash into your 200 year old hotel joint and put all out their misery here????

Do birds who live at airports have "Fuselage Envy?" This could explain a lot..........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:55 PM

So I guess that you would never call anyone who is in the military a hero because that is what they are trained to do. I assume that doctors and surgeons who save lives are only doing their jobs and are not heros. The emergency personnel who ran up the Twin Towers on 9/11 were getting paid by the hour, so they aren't heros either?   I assume that is what you believe Bobert since you feel that routine training eliminates you from becoming a hero?

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:50 PM

Like I don't need any more, Rono???

I done spent 8 hours today on my belly under a 200 year old hotel in 30 degree temps runnin' new water line... You can take it to the bank that I don't need no more grief....

Shoot, how long did it take Sully to crash the plane??? 3 or 4 minutes??? Hey, next time he's thinkin' of crashin' a plane in the river tell him I'd be more than happy to do it for him and he can spend the 8 hours in the cold-ass crawl space... Hey, far as I is concerned, I'm a hero and so is anyone who does what I did today...

Okay, there won't be no news stories... NO homecomings... No cheering crowds but....

Nevermind...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:35 PM

Just giving ya grief dude. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:33 PM

Hey, wait just a danged minute here, Rono... Penises ain't got nuthin' to do with none of this...

(But, Boberdz... Word on the street is that it wasn't a flock of wild geese that brougth down the plane... It was a flock of wild penises...)

Oh??? I hadn't heard that one... I didn't realize that penises could fly??? Learn somethin' new every day...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:21 PM

You are right Bobert, the limited hours makes him even more of a hero. Naturally the article doesn't mention our hero getting on board a raft first because he walked the plane twice to insure everyone got out.

Thanks for finally coming around to the side of reason. Your previous posts were unbecoming. I was beginning to think your case of penis envy was clouding your ability to comprehend!

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM

Here you go Brobert - the conspiracy you're looking for - terrorist goose

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:25 PM

Hmmmmmmmm???

According to the above linked article in "The Villager", Sullu not only had very limited hours (30) flyin' this plane but also when it came to loading survivors into rafts after the crash, the ol' rule of "women and children first" wasn't enforced...

Also, I heard recently that these engines are deisgned so that if a frozen turkey is thorwn into the engine that it won't damage the engine...

In the words of Paul Harvey, "And now for the rest of the story"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:36 PM

Terrorist geese!?   My God, where will it end!???

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 02:02 PM

WORLD ENDS!

BUT FIRST, THIS!

I have it on very good authority that it was known since the beginning of the plane-in-the-Hudson landing that there was a very large aircraft filled with TERRORISTS (or possibly tourists) flying very close to this airliner---and ALL were giving this flight the bird!.

That is where the engine-fouling (pun intended) birds came from!!!

Oh, the humanity!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:39 AM

Last night on Dateline NBC a program depicted the '10 Most Amazing Rescues' or something like that, that were caught on film.

#2 was of a cruise ship, the Oceanos, that went down. Two of the entertainment aboard - a musician and a magician - allegedly got the 600 passengers off with no loss of life.

The Oceanos crew and captain - allegedly - left the ship when they saw the ship was going to sink.

(i'm going to google the Oceanos for more information.)

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:21 AM

After reading the Villager artical (link above) I do find myself wondering, why,if there are passingers on the wing, in the water, should any crew who are uninjured, ESPCIALLY the captain, get into rafts. The reason a captain went down with the ship is the idea that he should not take the place of anyone else in a rescue. I think Sully did a great job, but, if I were writing the manual for proper behavior of flight crew in future, I would add, crew should give their place in the raft to passingers. Sully should have been the last fellow off the wing, not out of the raft, after the passingers, and then after the uninjured members of the crew. I assume the caib attendant who broke her legs, was helping get folks ready for the crash up to the splash down. She is the likely hero.
I met a fellow who was among the first rescue boats to the Morro Castle. He and his mates did not stop to help a single lifeboat, as they did not have a single passinger in them, they were full of crew alone. All the passingers who lived, were taken by rescue boats off the burning ship. I think passingers must come first in a disaster.
All the best
Lorcan

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:49 PM

Bobert, I had a friend many years ago who was a really fine artist. When people asked him what he did, he'd say, "I'm a painter." He wouldn't call himself an artist because he felt it would be blowing his own horn.

"I paint pictures," he said. "Whether or not I am an 'artist' is not for me to say, it is for others to judge."

I think the same principle applies here. If Sullenberger were to refer to himself as a "hero" or even agree that he is a hero, how would that sound?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:26 AM

Sully for President!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:25 PM

taint workin dude. THe man is a hero, just give it up!   99 outta 99 is just an assumption on your part and you know it. The man is a bonafide hero, no ifs ands or buts about no matter how much fuss you raise. Join the parade dude!

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:03 PM

Listen, Ron ol' bud... The guy doesn't consider himself such, said that he was trained to do what he did and I learnt up a long time ago that proclamations don't add up to fact...

And as fir backwoods ethics??? What is a "backwoods ethics"??? I never heard of the stuff... Does this mean that if I'm up in the mountain huntin' mushrooms an' I have an impure thought about, ahhhhhh, well, you know, that I'm going straight to Hell???

(No, Bobz... That would be backwwods "unethics"...)

Okay, maybe it's like if I have a good thought for mankind... You know, like I'd like to find a cure fir cancer up there in the woods that I'd get to ride the espress bus to Heaven as opposed to the one that stops at every corner...

(That's prolly it, Boberdz...)

But as fir yer hero, backwoods ethics or not, 99 outta 99 pilots would done the same thing... Okay, maybe a couple woulda initially tried to make it back to the airport only to find that their wasn't enough glide space to pull it off and then done the same thing...

Airplanes is alot like cars in that way... The problem with car accidents is that most occur with less than a second to assess the situation and make a decison... Airplanes is more forgiving... Well, unless yer wing falls off and then, inspite of the thread about the guy landin' the one winged plane (which was bogus) you have some time... Especially if you have control of it, minus the engines...

(But, Boberdz... Didn't you wreck one when you were 16???)

Well, technically, I was in the right seat...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:06 PM

Nah... I wouldn't deny you the pleasure of hearing the truth! I'll keep it up as long as you continue to deny.

Tell me, did you really expect him to say anything else???   

Get a grip, the man is a frickin hero! Even your backwoods ethics should be able to acknowledge that fact!!

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:37 PM

Great, Ron... Guess that means yer done sayin' stuff...lol... Works fir me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:02 PM

He is a hero. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:50 PM

Capt'n "Sully"'s own words: "We just did what we are trained to do..." From CNN a few minutes ago...

B

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 10:07 AM

Villager artcal about Flight 1549 with photo by Lorcan Otway
Here is another view of the actions of the plane crew, from a passinger as told to Lincoln Anderson. I did not write the piece, but it is my photo...
Bobert should enjoy this...
Cheers
Lor

Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 05:53 AM

Open mike:

That sounds applicable to a LOT of situations!