Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM

Like Lady Gay Spanker in Dion Boucicault's "London Assurance"...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM

Prissy Fingerpicking sounds like a young woman in some 18th Century comedy of manners.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 05:27 PM

OK OK Ok
Grumble moan
I will do this for a weeks worth of practice.
I refuse to listen to drummers unless its a bodrhan!
Now wheres that guitar?

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 05:22 PM

Once you can spell a "C" Chord, CEGC, and you know your fingerboard, you are then able to find "C" in a number of places. Do that with other chords. Then you can link them together and you're able to play chord progressions all over the guitar...

Rhythms? Got a problem with that? Put the guitar down for a bit and listen to DRUMMERS. Hold your pick(or just your hand,) and tap along to what they're doing.

It's like going to the gym, no pain no gain. You have to conquer the psychological barrier and begin to study the FOUNDATIONS of music...

bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM

Was gonna PM you Guest Bob.
Then realized the flaw in me plan.
I am getting seriously close to having to listen to some of the advice I keep askin me elders and betters for I think.
This weirdness about knowing what the bloody notes are keeps cropping up.
LOL

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:46 PM

:~( Awwwww do I have to?

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:40 PM

Tim: KNOW THY BOARD! That must be written on some cave in Guitar Heaven. Do you know the names of EVERY NOTE on your fingerboard? Can you see them? Can you spell chords?

Play this game for 3 days. You are not allowed to play ANYTHING you already know for 3 days. But you MUST play the guitar. Search new chords, scales & rhythms. See what develops. No turning back to the past, everything new...Try it...

bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:21 PM

Bob Ryszkiewicz

Thank you for that mate.
The road leads up to the next plateau,then it levels out for a while
or I take ramble down a side street.
I get the feeling that I am following the steps of many and they are always just around the next bend.
Maybe a few of you taking the time to turn and wave back at us less able players is what keeps us going on the journey .
Destination ?
Not being able to play the guitar.
The proper way.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:38 PM

Banks: The "finger people" are everywhere, a pathetic bunch...But whatchagonnado? I just keep my thoughts on the good stuff...bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:09 PM

Hey Bob, there's a man down the street who speaks to me with his hands every chance he gets....
....well, with at least his middle finger..

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Jayto
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:03 PM

Man I want a Tabla bad!!! I have for a long time. If someone calls me a prissy Tabla player in Ky or Tn I wont get mad. I will just be impressed they knew what it was lol. Hurdy Gurdy's are cool as well. Like I said I guess I understand guitar playing better so I tend to judge guitarists harder. I play alot of different instruments but guitar is my main one and I know it better than any other. I want a sitar as well. The Tabla and Sitar are 2 instruments I have never had or fooled with but I have loved them for years now. I hope I am a prissy sitar/tabla player someday. I hope you all hear me and say "damn how pretentious!!" lol
cya
JT

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 12:38 PM

Don: Had hurdy-gurdy last night for supper...
Tonight, I think I'll go with Tabla...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjjSZw4gr98&feature=PlayList&p=47563A953261122A&index=1
I watch Zakir a lot...TA-KI-TA, TA KA DI MI TA KI TA...Konikol...The only way to fly, try running some guitar lines with THAT...SERIOUS Fun!
bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 12:35 PM

here is some fingerpicking on the concertina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K4-2laAOkI&feature=channel_page

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM

Hurdy-gurdy, anybody?

Sorry. I'll leave now. . . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Jayto
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:57 AM

Because Doug guitarists are all that matter lol jk. I guess by me being a guitarist they are all I really pay real attention to lol.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:16 AM

it sure does....

why pick on the guitar ?    good one

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 02:36 AM

I take your point Jayto, but why pick on guitar pickers for this? The same applies to musicians of every style and every insrument.

DC

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:09 PM

For Tim Leaning...I used to take paper and pencil with me to make drawings of the chords and moves the great players were doing. I could just catch a bit of this and that, maybe a chord or two. Those were the days WAAAY before what is available today as music instruction. The I saw Paul Geremia at our College, sat down, and when he began to play I wrote: "Forget it" on the paper. that was 1966...Hardly what you would call, "Prissy". Ditto "Spider John" Koerner. Dave Van Ronk, Bruce Cockburn, and hundreds of others...

Became friends with Paul and met Blues Great John Hammond Jr. here in Montreal and walked with him a bit during a break in one of his shows. I was trying to learn how to play lead lines and he told me, "just keep trying to play it, mistakes will come then you'll get it." Sounded weird just trying to follow somebody's hand motions, but he was right.

Also had the honor of playing with Jazz Great, George Benson, who told me to be able to sing what I can play, and play what I can sing...VITAL...Try it...

You'll find a treasure trove on YouTube, and you might want to search "Homespun Tapes" in New York for more great stuff...

All the best on your "Guitar Journey"
bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Jayto
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 07:13 PM

I have heard a bunch of musicians play but not feel. They don't let go onstage and every lick hit and note sung has been done by them a million times. Think back to the first time you dialed the number to your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband. Think about how magical those numbers felt and how excited you were to hit them. Then think about how they feel or felt 15 yrs later. You probably remebr the sequence but not dialing it. Regardless how you feel about the person dialing the number becomes a memorized task that lost its magic somewhere along the lines. The notes of a song do the same thing whether we as musicians realize it or not. The crowd notices but we fail to see it. Just a thought. Compare the analogy however you see fit.
Cya
JT
and hey to my brothers Basnkley and Peace check the pics of my new baby on my myspace. She is a doll she gets it from my girlfriend lol.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:57 PM

Lots of wit and humor here and I have enjoyed reading through and the diversions to U tube to hear some lovely playing.
I still don't get what prissy finger picking is exactly or any of the other styles.
I guess to a relative beginner like me,you are all just Guitar playing gurus who i have been lucky enough to "meet"(?) online.
I have heard a few of you in real life and enjoyed your performance very much.
I will keep twiddlin' away on me guitar,and maybe one day someone will accuse me of having a "style"
That is the day I will think I maybe deserve to have an opinion in such erudite and skilled company.
Thank for the vids MR Fly,and the original songs Mr Drummer and the lovely reminiscences on musical times past Dougie.
Mudcat at its best is reading through a thread like this one and coming away wiht new thoughts and strange finger picking ideas.
Cheers all.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:31 PM

'I'm still amazed at how much can be expressed through the hands
(as opposed to some other body parts)


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Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: weelittledrummer - PM
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM

'I'm still amazed at how much can be expressed through the hands'

Like.........


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Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley - PM
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:38 PM

playing a musical instrument for starts..... use your imagination... '

I was thinking more in terms of what I could express with my hands. On telly in the 1950's there was an artist from Hungary or somewhere who used to wiggle his hands about to music, and say it represented a scene from under the sea.

i couldn't express much with my hands - not just my hands. i couldn't even stop someone in the street and ask the way to the public toilet.

In fact when we were at school and you used to have to put your hand up to get the teacher's attention - I was generally ignored.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:27 PM

I think that the "prissy" business is/was just a pointed remark about the playing style of somebody who the original poster just didn't like very much.

I think that's probably true. But what did it actually mean other than "I didn't like that"? We can speculate that it means various things - over pretty, fussy, lacking in emotion and mechanical have all turned up in the thread. But the word "prissy" doesn't really help pin down what was meant.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 06:42 PM

Such are the vagaries of language.

Yes. Word to the wise: if you can paraphrase your question as "why is X rubbish?", "has Y always been rubbish?" or "why do people like Z (even though it's rubbish)?", you might be better off putting that question to someone who you know agrees with you.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM

I think that the "prissy" business is/was just a pointed remark about the playing style of somebody who the original poster just didn't like very much.

The poster managed to turn it into an insult to about three quarters of the guitar and banjo pickers in both the UK and the US, and that was generalized into a slam that put all rest of the players in the world on the defensive. This because the orginal poster wasn't very clear about what he didn't like.

Such are the vagaries of language.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:58 PM

Lack of feeling" is a whole body-mind-emotion thing. I can't imaging someone singing with feeling and playing without it, or vice versa (?). If you understand a song and sing it with feeling, I don't see how your accompaniment can help but follow.

Now maybe this sounds like I'm contradicting what I just said, but I can imagine someone playing a complex accompaniment they're proud of with a lot verve and enthusiasm while giving the song itself short shrift. There are a number of folk singers around who put all their attention on their guitar accompaniments and seem to regard the song was merely something they have to do to justify their guitar work. In short, the song accompanies the guitar rather than the other way around.

I still don't get "prissy."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:29 PM

What really turns me off with fingerpicking is lack of feeling. I hear far to many focus on technique and strip it of all emotion. You remove the emotion from any music and it is a major turnoff to me. ……

I like to think that I put feeling and emotion into my songs but I am least likely to do that when I'm playing "strum, strum, strum … strum, strum, strum". Lack of feeling and emotion is a turnoff in any style, not just fingerpicking.

When I'm playing a song with a good bit of picking, I'm usually having fun – and if I'm enjoying myself then it's likely that the audience is too.


DC

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:47 PM

Another "Prissy Fingerpicker"....Jennifer Batten...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZBuzbe9xCo&NR=1

BR

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:49 PM

Muah HA HA HA HA Hee HEE HEE.....Hot DAMN this thread is FUUUUUUNNNY!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGB6d_3n58&feature=related

bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:38 PM

playing a musical instrument for starts..... use your imagination...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM

'I'm still amazed at how much can be expressed through the hands'

Like.........

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 12:01 PM

it all depends on who the fingers are attached to....

I'm still amazed at how much can be expressed through the hands
(as opposed to some other body parts)

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM

Agree Jayto comments 100% - 35 years ago on a teacher training course we were told " be creative; take risks; don't be afraid of looking foolish or wrong - just go for it.. and learn from the mistakes" - advice I took forward and applied to playing guitar/singing songs. Not sure what "prissy fingerpicking" is but if anyone told me I had a prissy style I'd hit 'em with a Bar Chord

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:24 PM

Jayto, agree with you 100% on that.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:14 PM

100

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Jayto
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:54 AM

What really turns me off with fingerpicking is lack of feeling. I hear far to many focus on technique and strip it of all emotion. You remove the emotion from any music and it is a major turnoff to me. I could care less about hearing a perfectly executed piece of insanely difficult fingerpicking if it lacks feeling. I don't care how over the top tough it is to perform or how perfect it is played. Mistakes here and there are just part of the game. I hear people all the time that you can tell have practiced a piece of music night and day for months on end. They hit it perfect but have no emotion in it at all. To me that is not music. Music to me is self expression not perfection. I never feel perfect so guess what it won't always sound perfect lol. That is not a cop out to justify not practicing or playing sloppy though. I hear things as I play a piece that I don't hear other times and the way I feel at the time has alot to do with it. When I hear a variation I will go for it. I may not always get it though. I may flub up trying to play it but I still go for it. The reason is that is an emotion I that needs to come out in the song at that time. I never pause to think if I will be able to pull it off I just let my muse guide me. I wish more musicians did this. Safety should not be in a performing musicians vocabulary in my opinion lol.
Here's a quote "To live a creative life one must first lose their fear of being wrong." I can't remember who said it but I agree 100%. Music is self expression and if you are not expressing anything other than I have practiced non-stop for a year then I really don't care about hearing it. I know this may ruffle some feathers (I have been on the cat for a while now lol) but some of you know I am good at that lol.
cya
JT

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

Some musicians are really good, some are OK, and some are...well, they just are. Part of what differentiates is technical ability, part of it is making choices, and some of it is talent.

I used to play in the stage band for an ethnic dance company, and when I signed on, the director told me,"We have some pieces for the "A" dancers and some pieces for the "B" dancers. Everyone knows which is which but the "B" dancers." Don't know why that occurs to me just now, but it does...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:57 AM

Al - with you all the way here. That's why acoustic sessions - in the widest sense of the words - can be such great fun. Everyone gets to play a lot if they want to and are able - newbies get to learn stuff by playing along - the casual johnnies at the bar can talk, laugh, sing, barrack - the crack can be excellent - good humour prevails - and you can hear some bloody good music from people giving it their heart!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:35 AM

Its the nature of the folkscene(in fact a treasured part) that there are all sorts of herberts turning up with all sorts of strange motives for being there.

I rather like that bit - guessing what they're up to.

Folkmusic's all right, but it should never get in the way of a good evening in the pub, with everybody having a good sing. At my birthday party - the most succesful acts of the evening (for the non folkies) were the fiddle player who forgot how the song went he was about to play and which he had just given a lengthy introduction to, and the guitarist who thought his custom made guitar was out of tune, but had actually forgotten how to play A minor chord.

I don't suppose many people will agree. But its surely better to be good humoured, than sitting there fuming at humanity because they haven't got the same predjudices about folkmusic that you have.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: matt milton
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:32 AM

I heard some Simon & Garfunkel songs on the radio last night for the first time in years and was suprised that I quite enjoyed them – I'd always thought of them as being a little on the prissy side. I suppose that's about as close as I can imagine to what Ian was thinking of. Paul Simon is a solid, laidback fingerpicker who never breaks a sweat.

Much better is someone like Ed Trickell – I only thought of him because I'm listening to his 1960s album "the telling takes me home" (wonderful stuff) a lot right now. Simple, gentle fingerpicking, very accomplished but nothing fancy. Entirely appropriate, very intimate sounding. That kind of laidback fingerpicking can sound quite sensual when its close-mic'd.

Actually, guitars often sound prissiest to me when they're being played in their most technically accomplished and flashy way. A lot of neo-classical guitar playing sounds prissy to me; quite a bit of mainstream jazz guitar; a lot of the new flamenco players too. (obviously I'm not thinking of people like Ramon Montoya or Django Reinhardt here) And while I love Baden Powell on Os Afro Sambas, pretty much everything else he's recorded sounds like he's playing with a furrowed brow and a very stiff neck – all too staid.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:10 AM

I think there's a wider question underlying this thread - which itself, I believe, was started as an offshoot of the still-running "Why folk clubs are dying" discussion. It's a question of performance and the motives behind it. I started playing guitar and performing in folk clubs nearly 45 years ago and, after 40+ years of playing for cash in jazz/funk/blues/rock'n roll bands - I've joined an old friend in his ceilidh band. I've also re-entered the folk world, just for fun, in the last two years. The bands that I played in played for cash and for the enjoyment of the music. Our aims, in the main, were to see that the people footing our bill got their money's-worth, that as many of the audience as possible enjoyed what we played and that - at the end of the session, they went home having had a good time. And if we'd had a good time as well, that was a bonus. And a decent fee was an extra bonus!

Now I'm back, here and there, in the world of folk clubs, singarounds and acoustic sessions, has my attitude changed? Not one whit. If you stand up in public and perform, whether there's cash involved or not, you have to ask yourself some very honest questions. Why do you perform?

1. Do you want all eyes on you - the roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd?
2. Do you want to show an audience something musically that it hasn't heard before?
3. Do you want to bring a message of some sort to the audience?
4. Do you want to tell a story?
5. Do you want to be a musical competitor?
6. Do you want to make money?
7. Do you want to keep the sacred flame of the tradition burning?
8. Do you want to have fun?
9. Do you want to have a cathartic experience?
10. Do you want to compensate for shortcomings in your life?
11. Do you want to entertain the audience?
12. Do you want to educate the audience?
etc....

Add your own questions to the list. Performing is a mixture of any of these elements - the particular mix being different for any individual. BUT - if you answer "No" to very many of these questions, then ask yourself this: What am I doing here in front of these people?. There has to be a motive somewhere - and it might not always be the one you think it is.

In the jazz world (for example), there has always been a long history of "cutting" - of musicians trying to outdo each other on stage. It happened in New Orleans, at the very beginnings of jazz, with bands playing in competition with each other. Barrelhouse, stride and boogie-woogie pianists would have cutting contests at rent parties or in clubs, seeing who could outplay the other. Just read Alan Lomax's "Mister Jelly Lord" or Rudi Blesh's "They All Played Ragtime" to get an idea of it. Soloist tried to top out another soloist in band playing - which can be exhilarating.

Most musicians, whether consciously or unconsciously, are competitive. You may not think you are - you may think this is nonsense - but there has to be a competitive element in music, or you will never progress. "Competition", by the way, means competing with yourself. We improve as musicians by competing with previous versions of outself. We play a piece, or sing a song and - if we've any sense of growth, we try and improve on it. We compete with ourselves subconsciously - if we don't, then we never improve, we lose the vital spark and we lose the audience. And we do have an audience don't we? If you don't want an audience, then stay at home and sing to the mirror.

There is a difference between being a very good performer and being a gross egotist - though it can be a very thin line. There's a very true saying: "You may think you're good, but there's always somebody better..." But it's much healthier, IMHO, to look at yourself seriously and ask yourself why you perform the way you do, how can you do it to the best of your ability, and why you're there in the first place - and what you're bringing to the party.

Apologies for the long rant - but I believe passionately that we should try to make good music and have a healthy and honest understanding of why we do it.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Indrani Ananda
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:22 PM

I wish I could go to a folk club without the claws and hammers coming out! Observe, listen, and you may perceive that in the main there are 3 categories of performer on trial:
          1/ Flashy 'slick-dick' playing syncopated with the utmost robotic accuracy, mostly bluesy, and usually beloved of guest performers. This type frequently sings in a laid-back toneless way and revels in the way he is wowing the audience with unmelodic but acoustically   embellished boring words.

          2/ Interesting playing, amazing voice but tuneless songs with banal words. A waste of a good voice.

          3/Melodious songs, average playing, not much of a voice, therefore not a lot of appreciation.

                   Which of these has the most to offer? If prissy playing is the yardstick, I'd say no.1. Because this is the "full-of-himself, look-at-me" type of player who creates the wrong mood for traditionsl folk songs to be enjoyed in a quiet room or bar.

                   Oh, and there is a fourth category -

          4/ Competent playing, average voice, original songs with good lyrics. In this category the song itself is dominant, so there is no need for prissy playing.

                     This last category is doomed, it seems, and fails to be recognised without the frenetic claw hammer (silly name!) drive of the bass plucking.

                     Guess which category I am in.

                                                 Indrani.

                     PS. Mc.Grath of Harlow - Have you started a new thread here? Flavours can indeed be squalid, as sunsets can be avaricious! Have you ever heard the sunrise? I have -
I know this - I am synaesthetic.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:14 PM

Much as I hate to admit it, WLD, you may be right.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:44 PM

well something terrible seems to have happened to him - to do with fingerpicking. Its easy to see how that could affect anyone.

Compassion costs nothing.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM

You could say "Is squalid fingerpicking a turnoff" or "Is avaricious fingerpicking a turnoff" with equal clarity to the original proposition.

Sadly, Ian hasn't come up with anything to show us what he was actually talking about, let alone any examples of his own playing, which would allow us to figure out where he sits in the guitar-picking food chain.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:52 PM

"...obviously "prissy" anything is bad...

Well, that's a simple and straightforward definition. But I can't help feeling it isn't exactly correct.

I just don't think prissy is a word that can reasonably be applied to playying the guitar. It's like calling a flavour "squalid", or a sunset "avaricious".

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:50 PM

No - I don't think it's prissy, etc., at all. (And thanks for the kind words, MT.) I'm just making the point that fingerpicking doesn't have to be all one thing. Even within the same piece, within the framework of a tune, within a picking style, you can get variation and light and shade. What I really enjoy is the unknown quantity that always comes when trying to improvise around a tune - a hangover from jazz days, I suppose. Luckily it works most of the time, though I'm all too conscious of when it doesn't!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:42 PM

You don't really want us to say it's prissy, and all that, Will. It is very entertaining--I like all the different ways that you run through the tune. You should perform it, and with an amusing and pointed intro, dedicated to Ian;-)

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:36 PM

I thought I'd try an experiment.

I've been playing "Freight Train" - on and off - as a practice piece for 40 years or more. I've never recorded it before and I've never played it in public at a gig. I've always thought it too overdone to give a public airing and, in any case, my spirit bubbles up whenever I see the wonderful Libba Cotten playing it (on YouTube).

However, just for a bit of fun, I recorded it this morning. Played it straight for a bit, then just played what came off the top of my head, for better or worse. You can see it at Freight Train. So - you can form your own opinions: prissy, mannered, over-complex, over-simple, no gravity, dynamic, blah, blah.

It may be all, some or none of these things - I just did it for FUN. And that's a huge reason ((for me) to play this sort of stuff on the guitar - it's challenging, unpredictable, enjoyable. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - but the FUN always has to be there.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:20 PM

Another way of saying the same thing that BWL seems to be saying: "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing."

Good solid weighty "swinging" playing can be either simple or complicated, just as lousy unfeeling lightweight monotonous playing can be either simple or complicated.

Technique isn't everyting. Real musicianship required musicality, which involves a certain depth of personal involvement.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:33 AM

There are some quitarists whose styles remind me of someone performing complex acrobatic routines in outer space. It may be impressive, but it'd be a lot more so if there were some gravity involved. If someone's playing doesn't have the musical equivalent of gravity in it, I get bored with it pretty quickly.