BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM

I just heard part of an interview on public radio of Walter Mondale by Garrison Keillor.

Mondale thinks Jimmy Carter deserves more credit than he got.

He said, "We told the truth, we obeyed the law, and we kept the peace."

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:33 AM

Well, Kat, if anyone can do it...

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:25 AM

"The way to war is a well-paved highway and the way to peace is still a wilderness."
- Paul P. Harris

May President Carter be successful in bringing peace out of the wilderness.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:25 AM

It does in fact, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:55 AM

Who knows, Rigs... The main thing is that Jimmy is going to them with an open hand rather than a fist... Peace starts somewhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:39 AM

Now Jimmy Carter--the man with a heart as big as the Milky Way--is trying to make peace with the militant Jews who have been attacking him for the last several years. I wonder if they will be big enough to accept?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:12 PM

Surely the truth is that "Conservatism as a philosophy" in the States is represented by the mainstream Democratic Party".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:05 PM

Joe, the problem is less the Israeli people and more AIPAC. They are the propaganda organ of the US which Obama has supported.

Jim Sleeper's article should have said, "It's not all about race" but to deny that there is this component goes against American history.

The problem is in the US today, Conservatism as a philosophy has been replaced by radical right wingers who refuse to rationally discuss the current state of affairs. The G.O.P. has killed Conservatism as a respectable alternate voice in the debates. So we have opinions by indoctrinated minds who for certain extra-political reasons need to keep drawing their dubious lines in the sand. When this idea is taken in, then you will see that any constructive dialogue has been replaced by name calling and ad-hominem arguments.

What's left? Pat Buchanan's "culture war"?

People are hurting today but the rage is misplaced. The people who have caused the problems with our economy are being supported by the ragers.

Carter has always assumed the role of a rational mediator. This was his true legacy. He was a beacon of light in his appeal to reason and discussion rather than knee-jerk
right-wing radicalism.

Micheal Moore is left-wing knee jerk you say? He is dealing squarely with the issues and
not just ad-hominem attacks on figures. He's not out calling people "liars" but presenting his facts in an orderly and artistic way.

Jimmy Carter may have made some blunders in the White House.   What president hasn't?
But he brought to the office a sense of dignity, decorum, and open discussion.
Bush and Reagan shut that all down.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:03 PM

There've been a good few potentially useful expressions that probably started out as typos. For example this one I found here - "temperment".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:38 PM

I think it's a typo, but that's just a guess because I've never heard "black burner" used in "real life" (meaning life outside of the Internet) and I've never seen that phrase written anywhere else.

For what it's worth, I read that phrase as "back burner" and didn't realize it actually was "black burner" until you pointed it out.
I guess the poster had "black" people on his/her mind, and that led to him/her typing the word "black" instead of the word "back".

However it came about, it's interesting to think of the implications of "race" [being kept] on the black burner".

That phrase calls to mind James Baldwin's 1963 book The Fire Next Time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

I wondered whether "black burner" was a typo or a neologism I hadn't come across. Neat anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:08 AM

You're welcome, meself.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:06 AM

Actually I meant to write "kendall, with regard to your statement that President Obama is just as much white as black"...

But the way I initially phrased that sentence revealed my position on that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: meself
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:54 AM

That quoted post is very astute. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmE7tuR0364

The Late Show with David Letterman / David Letterman and President Barack Obama - 09/21/09
"David Letterman and President Barack Obama discuss whether the President believes racism is behind recent political attacks."

-snip-

Part of President Obama's response was "I've been black all my life."

IMO, that was an astute political response which can be taken in more than one way.

See the different responses posters (mostly Americans of mixed races) at racialicious.com wrote about that comment:

http://www.racialicious.com/2009/09/23/open-thread-i-was-black-before-the-election/#comments

For what it's worth, I agree with the following poster to that thread who wrote that

"Obama knows where his priorities are. It does not matter what he thinks on the issue; his number 1 priority is health care reform. He will have plenty of time as a lame duck (inevitably, hopefully in 6 years and not 3) to agree with president Carter. Until then I would be f***king* angry if he was stepping in the flaming bag of poop that is race. He fell for it with stupid Professor Gates, and I hope he learned his lesson.

I think that Obama understands fundamentally that there are a lot of people who are comfortable with a black president as long as he is not a reparations-demanding slavery-blaming N-word saying Civil Rights stereotype. I think if he EVER shows a shade of that, then he will immediately lose the (paradoxical) patina of the post-racial president, and become the Angry Black Man in the eyes of too many people. He needs too broad a base of support to be able to risk this.

Obama is unique in that he figured out a "second card" that is not the race card, that a powerful black politician can play – the "race is not a big deal" card. By leaving race on the black burner, while doing a damned good job as president, he can let it die the slow death of obscurity that it SHOULD be dying – the same death by obscurity that hate against the Irish or Italians or Catholics is dying.

The more he distances himself from the ugly politics of race, the more the fact that he is black and the fact that he is president say everything he needs to say. Ever notice that no one EVER has anything to say about Barack Obama's blackness, except the ol' "what do you think about us having a black president?" Thats what he WANTS us to talk about – the visions of progress and equality, instead of racial politics. He makes people against him, those that blow the dogwhistle of race, just look more racist, because he forces THEM to bring it up and be racist, and he lets the loudmouths in the media call them out. This will only silence them more on the issue of race.

Whether or not he takes these actions because he sees it as an actual strategy against racism (this is how I see it) or because he thinks its simply the most expedient thing to do with regard to his political agenda, I have no idea. But I sure hope it works out both for racism and his politics.
-Minotaar, Posted 24 Sep 2009 at 2:16 am ¶

-snip-

* I edited the curse word to more closely fit my puritanical sensitivities.


BTW, kendall, with regard to your statement that President Obama is as much black as he is white, while that is biologically true, race is a social construct, and not a biological one. Most people in the United States are still defining race based on the one drop of black blood rule. Given this socialization (and skin color, hair texture and other physical clues that people have been socialized to believe are what "black people look like"), President Obama undoubtedly fits the category of a person who has been "black all of his life".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: number 6
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:07 AM

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time, Some of the people can be all right part of the time, But all the people can't be all right all the time. I think Abraham Lincoln said that. I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours. I said that.

....... Bob Dylan


BiLL

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:29 AM

...rebuke people who were talking hate talk. And the shameful thing is that there doeesn't seem to have been something similar this time.

Again, take this up with Doug & his ilk. This crap is coming from the gang of lunatics the Republican party has evidently become, whether it be fake 'tea parties', gun-toting thugs at 'Town Meetings', 'death panels' or Congresswoman Lynn Jenkins of Kansas (hone of the Creation Science[sic] Museum with humans riding dinosaurs, etc) calling for a 'great white hope' - her precise words- to oppose President Obama.

Apparently there's no one in the Republican Partywith a shred of decency left, or they'd speak out to condemn this garbage, and the people - Limbaugh etc.- who spew it.

What's more amazing to me is that the President keeps taking this filth on the chin without speaking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:45 PM

If I say I disagree with someone of course I am saying that they are wrong. Just as they are saying that I am wrong. That's what disagreeing with someone means.

But saying someone is wrong isn't the same as saying that he or she is a bad person, just as saying that someone is right is the same as saying he or she is a good person. Some of them are and some of them aren't, both ways.

But that's the line that is being crossed in a lot of the public dissent we've been seeing. It's the kind of thing that was happening in the election when John McCain felt it was his duty to rebuke people who were talking hate talk. And the shameful thing is that there doeesn't seem to have been something similar this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:47 PM

One can argue with Doug's, but to say his opinion is wrong is not right.

I never said his opinion was "wrong".

I said and still say his "FACTS"[sic] are wrong. His tactics are irresponsible.

And as has been said elsewhere, no amount of belief can make a fact.

I have plenty of tolerence for others' opinions. I have little to no tolerence for lies, distortions, inventions and outright bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:28 PM

We all have an opinion. One can argue with Doug's, but to say his opinion is wrong is not right. We Liberals are known for our tolerance of other opinions that don't jibe with our own.

In my opinion, the most we can say is we disagree and state why.

I've never known Doug to spread lies and just because he belongs to the party that I have no use for doesn't make him a bad guy. I have relatives and friends who belong to that party. Does that make me one of them? Guilt by association?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:39 PM

...Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"rip down all hate," i screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. i dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but i was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now....

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:03 PM

But then that last sentence is precisely what the people with the banners and the lies and the screaming would no doubt they of themselves say of themselves, and they believe it too.   

The puzzle is where it's coming from, so far as the non-racists among them. I think one part of it is a mindset that says that in a battle the only thing that matters is winning, and anything that helps achieve that is OK. And that's not an attitude restricted to the right.

Why, even Saul Alinsky - whom I admire enormously in many ways - says more or less precisely that in Rules for Radicals. And to me it seems that may be a way to win a battle, but it's also a good way to lose a war in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM

McGrath:

If you're implying that I "hate Doug" You're way off. I don't hate Doug- if anything, I pity him.

As for "engaging in the politics of hate", I don't see that examining the consequences of the behavior & mindset of persons like Doug pertains.

What I DO hate is what mindless idiots are doing to my country.

Per H.L. Mencken- hardly a pinko leftie:
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM

Evidently it isn't only on the far right that people are liable to fall into just the same trap, as disagreement about politics degenerates into the politics of hate.

Picture of an ilk sounding off

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 01:10 PM

No, he's not, and I'm REALLY tired of people making excuses for this man.

It is NOT simply a "difference of opinion" or different angle" at all.

He inhabits a alternate, delusional reality & his ilk are responsible for spreading the lies and bullshit and disinformationt that encourage and activate the unthinking, ignorant and sometimes violent right-wing lunatic fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:35 AM

Doug is a nice guy who sees thing from a different angle.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:23 PM

We all do it from time to time.

Agreed. But then there are those that do it ALL the time.

... it's much more puzzling when those who don't suffer under that kind of handicap [racism] are caught up in this kind of delusion.

He's sure suffering under SOME kind of handicap.

It is genuinely frightening.

You Betcha! People like Doug ARE frightening.

Where does it end? Another dead president?

Ask Doug- don't ask me. He's one of those that are dangerously delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM

We all do it from time tomtime. It's not so much what we want to hear, it's what we expect to hear.

We get in a dispute and we build up this set of assumptions about the other person, and whatever they say we are likely to hear what we have programmed ourselves to hear.

So in political terms you have someone like Obama, who is almost painfully moderate, someone who would be recognised in just about any other country as a decent conservative, with policies to match. But to thousands of his fellow citizens he evidently comes across as a crazy and fanatical Socialist or Nazi. He can't seem to open his mouth without declaring his passionate love for his country and his belief in its destiny to form an "ever more perfect union" - and someone like Doug sees and hears someone who thinks that America is the source of all evil in the world, as he indicated in that last post of his.

It's easy enough to see how people who see the world through the distorted lense of racism should react in that kind of way. But it's much more puzzling when those who don't suffer under that kind of handicap are caught up in this kind of delusion.

Disagreements about policy are one thing. But this is something that goes way beyond that. It is genuinely frightening. Where does it end? Another dead president?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:56 AM

Aren't persistent delusions and hearing voices earmarks of mental instability and/or serious mental illness?

Perhaps a medical evaluation is in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:25 AM

Sometimes people only hear what they want to hear. Even when no one actually says it.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 07:38 AM

Doug, you are overstating here. No one I have ever met thinks the USA has caused all of the world's problems. But anyone who thinks we have done nothing but good is deluded.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: DougR
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:27 AM

Ebbie: You can't be serious. You think my questioning why critics of your country are so critical of the US because of perceived racial bias, have not had a person of color as their country's leader? Give me a break.

Or maybe you have joined (or perhaps have always been)a sympathizer of those (including our president)who believes the ills of the world are caused by our country.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:19 PM

Are there any signs of leading and respected Republicans doing the same thing now?

So do I take it that the answer to that is "No"? It wasn't a rhetorical question. In fact I'd rather assumed that there must be some decent people around in the ranks of the opposition who would be disgusted at some of the things that have been going on, and would feel they had a duty to speak out aboutb it. What price patriotism?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:20 AM

Now, play nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 09:37 PM

Jimmy Carter is an embarrassment who should retire to his peanut farm and raise peanuts.

You're projecting again, Douggie. He's nothing like the embarrassment to the U.S. that YOU are.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 09:35 AM

It's a pity, but Jimmy Carter probably will never receive the credit he is due during his lifetime. Carter was probably the first US president (certainly during my lifetime) to even make a token effort to try and get Americans to think like people who shared the world with other countries instead of people who were entitled to rule it. I think he was one of the unluckiest presidents of the 20th Century, coming at a time when the game was finally up for the Shah. That didn't stop him coming up with the Camp David Agreement, which created opportunities for peace in the middle east that have sadly been squandered since by both Arabs and Israelis.

For my money, I think a lot of Americans were kidding themselves last November when they thought that voting for a black man was somehow going to redeem America. It didn't and it won't. Race is still the crucial fault-line in American society and it is the fault-line along which American society will inevitably break apart.

If you want to make money in North America, invest in tents. The Canadians are going to need them for the refugees before long.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:11 AM

The president is as white as he is black. So what? Will these Neanderthals ever come out of the dark ages?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:37 PM

From the website of the (very conservatve) Daily Telegraph Barack Obama, Joe Wilson & race:

..".why discussing race is so difficult: it is impossible to say that some people are/may be racist without conservatives jumping up and down and claiming that the same applies to everyone in the group under discussion (in this case Obama's protesting opponents).

Expat says: "Mr. Spillius' underlying message is clear. If you protest ANYTHING Obama proposes, it's not because you question the policy, it's because cannot get beyond the fact that the President of the United States is black."

That is not what I am saying. My "underlying message" is that a minority of people have trouble accepting a black president; that racism exists endures in the South; that the questioning of Obama's legitimacy as president and the unhinged hostility - not to mention dubious placards - shown by some protestors is rooted in those factors. That, in turn, de-legitimises what that minority has to say. It does not detract from the genuine anger and bewilderment at the president's big government agenda - but let's save that argument for another day. This seems irredeemably uncontroversial to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 09:15 PM

If wiping out a day care center is an act of heroism, what planet does this Mahon live on?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM

"By the way, Kevin, how many people of color have served as PM in Great Britain?" DougR

Good grief, DR. That sounds an awful lot like a racist poke.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:52 PM

I think that "anti-racist" was a misnomer for Mahon.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:50 PM

White Supremacist groups have been hating the federal government long before Obama became president. Now they are riled even more. The Secret Service reports that threats against Obama are 4 times more than what they were against Bush.

from eyeonhate.com

"Vehemently anti-government and viciously anti-racist, Mahon referred to Timothy McVeigh as a martyr for the cause and stated:

"Timothy McVeigh is my hero. Wish we had a thousand more like him. He took action."

He also referred to the bombng [sic] as "a fine thing" and stated further "I hate the government with a perfect hatred. If I had a nuclear bomb, I'd put it in a truck and drive right up to the Capitol Building in Washington and blow it all up, me included." Believing that any and all methods are legitimate when it comes to saving your nation, Mahon was the perfect friend for Timothy McVeigh."
Domestic Terrorism 101 http://www.eyeonhate.com/mcveigh/mcveigh6.html

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:35 PM

Some people think Timothy McVeigh was a hero.

Yes, it would be great if a leader on the right would denounce the crazy and violent talk. By the way, Carter used the word "fringe". He was talking about extremists... but it only takes one to commit a violent deed.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:29 PM

None, and we haven't had any Catholics either. But then under our system the Prime Minister isn't elected in a national vote.

But the kind of thing that's been going on, what with those posters of Obama in whiteface, and the orchestrated hate, would be strictly British Nazi Party stuff here.

Maybe what Carter said there might have been imprudent - "fans the flames" - but does that make it untrue? If it is true, the right person to have denounced it would have been someone who was politically opposed to Obama, but even more opposed to racism.

During your election one of the moments that is most memorable was when John McCain publicly stood up against the hate talk by some of his supporters, and it was very inpressive. He recognised that what was going on there was disgracing America, wanted no part in it, and wanted to stop it.

Are there any signs of leading and respected Republicans doing the same thing now?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:27 PM

Israel and the US have something in common. A deluded minority is attempting to overthrow a sane government.

Carter has always been a beacon of sanity even when he has made tactical errors such as sending helicopters to rescue the Iranian hostages from the Iranian leaders whereby
Reagan made his deals.

Unfortunately, the American public will not listen to intelligent leaders like Carter.

The Republican Noise Machine fuels violence and lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: DougR
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:49 PM

McGrath: Of course racism is not dead in the United States! I agree that some people are racists and will never vote for a person of color probably for ANY public office.

To have a former president declare, however, that in his opinion, many of those who oppose Obama do so on the basis of race does not further the cause. It only fans the flames.

By the way, Kevin, how many people of color have served as PM in Great Britain?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:48 PM

Jimmy Carter's outburst is part of a calculated strategy to silence all opposition to Obama's health care bill.

The DNC called out its biggest "gun" because the poll numbers on ObamaCare dropped to 42% public support. Not only that, the people who favor the plan tend to be the least informed about its actual contents.

Carter was called out to defend Bill Clinton in the impeachment back in 1998. He read DNC talking points along with Di Feinstein and a few other select Democratic Party faithful. Then and now, its called "circle the wagons" and nothing more.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: meself
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 01:52 PM

Why do I have the feeling that we're never going to find out?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 01:37 PM

Carter didn't say it, and no one in this thread has said it. So who are "they", pdq?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM

I agree, Kendall. I have relatives and friends in the South and there is no way that most of them would support any program proposed by a black man. They hope that he fails, and that a white conservative will carry the next election.

This is unfortunate, but true. Carter knows his territory.