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Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?

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Ian Hendrie 29 Jan 09 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,mg 29 Jan 09 - 02:14 PM
GUEST 29 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Jan 09 - 03:29 PM
Joe Offer 29 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM
Ian Hendrie 29 Jan 09 - 06:59 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Jan 09 - 11:40 PM
Ian Hendrie 30 Jan 09 - 08:31 AM
Mr Red 27 Jun 18 - 03:05 AM
Mr Red 27 Jun 18 - 03:09 AM
Mr Red 28 Jun 18 - 02:40 AM
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Subject: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:39 PM

My website, which aims to be an archive of British and Irish waterway related songs, outgrew its hosting situation. It has moved from moonlightshadow.demon.co.uk to
www.waterwaysongs.co.uk.

I found this transfer tricky enough but now I need to ensure that any visitors to the old site are re-directed. I have come across various, sometimes conflicting ideas, and have one in operation at the moment but it doesn't seem to work if anything other than the index page is visited first.

Suggestions would be most welcome.

Ian


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:14 PM

That is great. I didn't realize they had song clips in there at first but some do.

Any chance of getting some American ones in there eventually? I recently found out my ancestors worked on the canals, probably the Erie among others. What I don't get is how their families seemed to be with them...and I can't figure out what they would have done for housing...tents? Wagons? Anyway, it is all fascinating. mg


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

Hi mg,
In Britain, many boaters who travelled long distances on the canals actually had their family living with them in a small cabin at the back of the boat. It was as small a possible so as to not reduce the cargo carrying capacity too much. The presence of family members (mainly the wife) meant that a second man did not need to be employed and that there was no rent to pay on a house or cottage for the family left behind. These cost cutting considerations were essential when the railways started competing with the canals for cargoes.
I don't know anything about American canals and will be limiting my site to British and Irish ones for the moment.
Regards,
Ian


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 03:29 PM

You don't say what redirection method you're using at the moment, so it's hard to suggest alternatives. I'm guessing, since your old site URL was a Demon sub-domain, that it's a service provided by Demon itself.

If that's the case, the re-direct will be a script on the index page, and will only work from there; the other pages have presumably been removed from Demon's server. That oughtn't to matter much, as the error page that comes up if you try another page specifically advises people to try the homepage and provides a link to it; that is picked up by the re-direct script and you wind up at the new site.

Of course, if people don't bother to try the link, there isn't much you can do about it. The best plan is always to register your own domain name independently (avoid registration/hosting packages; the Cyberhymnal found that that is frequently a false economy), so you can point it anywhere you like no matter how often you change host. You know that now, of course. Still, as I say, not much to worry about really. You may lose a bit of traffic from people who can't read, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM

Looks like a very interesting Website, Ian. I added it to our Links page.
The old URL was http://www.moonlightshadow.demon.co.uk/SongMenu.htm it provides a link to the new Website, but no automatic redirect on my computer. Seems OK to me. Google still directs to the old URL.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:59 PM

Malcolm,
I have used a .htaccess file which contains the following:
Redirect 301 /index.htm http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/index.htm
I understand that if anyone accesses the original index page they will be directed to the one on the new web-site - just how I don't know, as I'm not sure of the function of the .htaccess file.
I was concerned about what would happen if anyone went directly to any of the other pages on the original web-site (which are no longer there).
Ian


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 11:40 PM

That extra information helps. As I've said, you don't need to worry too much as the (old) homepage link on your default 404 error page does provide -in effect- a redirect to the new domain even if people try to access a page other than the default index, but it could confuse some users. I gather that your new domain is also hosted at Demon? I hadn't realised that when I first replied. From what I remember, their procedures are a bit non-standard. Will your old address there remain active, with ftp access, indefinitely? If that's the case, there are several things you could do to make redirects a little smoother.

Assuming Demon allows it, you could put up a custom 404 page in the (old) root directory with a message to the effect that the whole site has moved, and providing a link to the new domain name index page. Hardly seamless like Redirect 301, but it would be more specific for inexperienced visitors who might not think to try the old homepage link when they get the 'not found' message.

Alternatively, you can put up an .htaccess file that will redirect a request for any page on the old site to its equivalent at the new one. That would be seamless in the way that a request (specific or implied) for the old index page currently is. I've never done one of those myself, but I've done directory redirects between sites and it isn't too complicated if you're careful. The instructions at http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/301-redirect.htm are reasonably easy to understand; see the 'RedirectMatch' section.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:31 AM

Thanks Malcolm for the advice. I have had a few problems changing from one Demon service to another and lost internet and e-mail access for a while. I have to say that this was as much a result of my ignorance as any other factor. The Demon help-desk, which appears to be in India, has been very helpful, like yourself. It may be that Demon will sort out the re-direction. I hope so, my brain hurts!
Ian


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 03:05 AM

One I have been using for 20 years (in the head section) in the holding page.


<script language="JavaScript" type ="text/JavaScript">
<!--
var brows = navigator.appName.substr(0,8) ;
if ((brows == "Netscape") && (parseInt(navigator.appVersion) >= 3)) self.parent.location.replace("http://mister.red/blahblah.htm") ;
else if ((brows == "Microsof") && (parseInt(navigator.appVersion) >= 4)) self.parent.location.replace("http://mister.red/blahblah.htm") ;
else self.parent.location = "http://mister.red/blahblah.htm" ;
//-->
</script>

or just
top.parent.location="http://mister.red/blahblah.htm" ;

will do it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 03:09 AM

semicolons essential!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Canal Song website moves - Redirection?
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 02:40 AM

BTW I did redirects when I had (paid for) unlimited webspace and I wanted to clean up the waitrose.com (free) webspace. All pages that were primary**, and there were a number after 15 years.

Golden rule. Don't change the filename &/or URL, change the contents or redirect

Too many webmasters think dates in filenames are orderly**. Or change content AND filename.

** That neatness fails when you consider all those helpful webmeisters (sic) who have linked to you. AND. All those audience you have carefully cultivated who put your page on their favourites! A lot more of them!


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