BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?

Subject: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 06:56 AM

Quite by chance I discovered that most of the UK's 1911 Census data is now online. I'd always thought that the 100-year no-access rule was rigidly applied. So, being a keen family historian, I've had a crack using it. Fairly pricey at the moment, I have to say - around £1 per data view and £3 for an image view - but I took a punt the other day and got some useful data. Usual amount of mistranscriptions, but there is a facility to send in error reports - which I did - and, surprisingly, these were corrected and confirmed within a few days!

Any other views from 'Catter genealogists?

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:12 AM

I've had a quick look and 'found' some misplaced ancestors, but I haven't got as far as paying for images yet, though I shall need to.
First prepare a list of items to be sought.
But it is useful to have it, as it covers a period before most living rellies.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:32 PM

Will, I thought the 'punt' had been dumped in favour of the euro!

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Nessie
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:16 PM

The 1911 census is not covered by the 1920 Census Act, however sensitive information will remain closed for the full 100 years, hence details such as disabilities aren't shown.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 02:13 PM

I haven't paid for any info as yet but did find out why my paternal grandmother was known as Nellie when her name was Martha - it was her middle name. My father was also listed as a 10 month old baby aah! Both his parents died in 1916 so it is good to find out more about them. At some point I will look for more info but agree that you need to have a list before you start parting company with money.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Nessie
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 03:11 PM

Meant to add - the transcription costing 10 units shows all that's on the image costing 30 units bar how many children were born to the family + how many living/dead, the number of rooms in the dwelling, and what their handwriting looked like. Worth prioritising at these prices.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 06:22 PM

I found the birth date of a missing uncle in the 1911 census, but I'm loathe to pay money for much more... besides which, they can't seem to locate a whole family (maternal great grandmother's family) when I have nearly a dozen names, places of birth and age. Grandmother was born in 1909 but I can't find her either.

I waited nearly 20 years for the 1901 census to be published, I can wait another 22 months for the next....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Nickhere
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:22 PM

I've used it, and other census - eg the 1851 one and so on. You can access all these by subscribing to a genealogy website like ancestry.co.uk (they're actually based in the US, I think, despite the co.uk suffix). For a low monthly fee you can access all these records and lots more, and it's helped me make good progress in my own researches. Years ago you'd actually have to go in person to the repositories to examine the records - time consuming and often disappointing unless you were quite sure what you were looking for. Viva la Net!

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Stu
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM

I think I'll wait until it appears on Ancestry.com when it's a bit cheaper.

I love doing my family history though.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: nickp
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:54 AM

I've added a little to my research with it but until the full searching facilities are in place I'll leave it alone because it is too expensive to guess.

Of the 3 households I was particularly interested in I found 5 transcription errors - which I reported. Checking the actual document revealed that these were not badly written and hard to make out errors but should have been quite clear. That's a high error rate. Makes me worried about the rest of the transcriptions if people don't check the (expensive) actual document scans.

Nick

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 05:22 AM

I'm trying to put the "finishing touches" to my 25+ years of family research - as if it could ever be finished - so I took the plunge and bought £30 (not euros or punts -LOL!) of credits. I remember that when the 1901 census appeared it was also full of mistranscriptions but that also - in its first few months - it was hard pressed to cope with the demand. So, in a way, it's good that the 1911 one has been released a little early - if pricily - if this spreads the pressure on it.

Anyway, plenty of new youngsters have been found, and some mistakes cleared up. I'd hoped the 1911 might have been included in my Ancestry sub, but that will obviously have to be waited for...

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 06:06 AM

I've used it twice but I don't think I'll use it again in the immediate future. I've been doing genealogy a few years and have realistically gone back as far as I think I'm likely to with my family (mid-1600s on direct paternal line and a little earlier on some branches of my maternal line) but there's still a couple of little mysteries nearer my own time frame that I'd like to clear up.

However, when I found out just how expensive it was, I really baulked at coughing-up so much for transcripts and images. In the past, I'd become very 'strategic' about buying BMD certificates as it's pretty expensive - at least to me - and the 1911 census is pretty much the same in that respect.

I don't see how the price is justified at all. Whilst the colour images (one of the reasons why it's so expensive) are nice to look at, I'm not sure what they offer that the grey-scale/black and white ones didn't previously. They are more legible sure, but I'm not so sure they're that much more legible. Any 'aesthetic' reasons are also off-set by the fact that the 'Infirmity' column is whited-out so crudely anyway.

I'm sure that someone was hoping to make a fortune from this - although I doubt it will happen - in the current economic climate. I've got a feeling it will actually end-up on Ancestry sooner rather than later because of this.

Obviously being interested in family history I'm keen for public records to be made available. Whilst I understand the cost of IT infrastructure involved, I really dislike the idea that it's translated into a commercial venture. I don't suppose it's any different from the government selling on other personal records to private firms though other than these particular people are more likely to be dead.

It's nice to see more writing examples though, complete with spelling mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 06:08 AM

£1 per data view and £3 for an image view

That's a cheek. Isn't National Archive supported by the Heritage Lottery Fund? They certainly won't let local record offices charge to view items. There is only a nominal charge to produce reader tickets and to make photo copies which pays for the paper and ink. This does not cover the admin time to collect the items or lend assistance which is covered by rate payers and funding from organisations like HLF.

ALERT shameless promoiton follows: I work at Essex Record Office. Go to your local record office. There is nothing like seeing the actual documents and having an archivist or assistant on hand to help direct your search. A list of independent researchers is usually available if you want to pay for in depth searches.

While I am at it...

If you are sitting on:
old letters, diaries which provide good illustrations of what life was like
journals full of great grandad's prose or poetry
great great aunt Martha's household book (showing budgets, recipes, notes to coal supplier, etc.)
old old photos, sound or video recordings of family or local events that have desriptive docuements with them

DON'T throw them away, don't just sit on them until they moulder away. Contact your local record office and ask if they are interested in housing them.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 08:27 AM

Before Ancestry and similar online resources were available, I used to travel to London (from Sussex) to consult the Public Records Office (then in Holborn) for census data, and the Births, Marriages & Deaths ledgers in St. Katharine's House in the Strand. I would buy car parking/train/tickets/food/drinks and - if I was lucky after a day trawling through microfilm or hoiking heavy books on and off shelves - to come away with perhaps 3 or 4 useful items of data.

I now pay my sub (£8.99 a month) to Ancestry. Since doing that for the last 2 years or so, I've amassed huge quantities of data from all the censuses from 1841 to (now) 1911, and from the online BMD indexes. When I add to that the free stuff like the International Genealogical Index data, the FreeBMD data (to which I used to contribute) and other online resources, I've done more and faster research in the last few years than in the whole of the previous 20 years. So, all in all, it's worth it - and the time I might have spent just travelling to London has been spent on driving to those excellent record offices and getting access to a whole range of interesting documents.

Number of records gained from 1911 census data so far - at a cost of £25 (still got some credits) - census data for 26 addresses and 156 individuals. So, yes, the 1911 data is expensive and yes, I hope it gets into Ancestry one day, but it's saved me a huge amount of time and other expense to get the information I need now. You gets what you pays for!

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 08:52 AM

Will, yes, compared to pre-online resources it is cheaper, there's no doubt about that. If I'd have wanted or been able to go to consult the Public Records Office &c. - it would have cost me even more living in the North of England. Which is one of the reasons I get narked about how public records and all kinds of resources &c. being so centralised and invariably located in London/South East and why I'm glad that material is being released on-line.

I know a lot of Scots &c. get angry about the government appearing to think that Britain = England, but I can assure them that quite often for people living outside of the South East but still in England, it seems like the government's take is actually Britain = South West!

However, just because it's cheaper compared to physical travel, I'm not convinced that's a good argument in favour of what you still have to pay. It seems governments are very keen on accruing information but not so keen on giving it back - unless there's money to be made out of it of course.

I spent the best part of £7 and got census data for 2 addresses and 9 individuals - so yes, I think it is expensive. I've fallen foul of other people's transcriptions before and don't trust anything other than the actual census image. People just not subscribed - despite being on the actual image - wrong ages, sexes, names, jobs: you name it and someone else has misread it. If my family history is going to be buggered-up by human error - and costing me money as well - I'd rather that error was mine!

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 09:56 AM

No - I don't think it's priced correctly at the moment either - it's just that I'm in a bit of a hurry and am (for the moment) putting up with it!

In fairness, I do believe that the 1911 census site advises users to wait until it comes formally (and completely) online in 1911 or 1912 - because it will be more complete and cheaper.

If I remember correctly, a lot of the transcriptions for the 1901 Census were done in India - which accounted for some wonderful but seriously irritating errors...

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 12:59 PM

I managed to get back 214 years without spending a penny, other than on paper and pencils. Admittedly, I did still live within 20 miles of where my family originated and actually in the town where the archived records were kept, but it was a lot more informative than just ticking off certificates.

As VirginiaTam says, use your local Records Office. They're full of all manner of things that you might otherwise miss. Most of them have microfiche readers, scanned documents and very helpful assistants, but on request, if possible, they will let you see the original documents which is far more thrilling than any online facility.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 01:19 PM

Unfortunately, my local Local Records Office is terrible. Pretty unhelpful over the phone and no matter how many times I've requested photocopies of certificates I've always got modern rewritten ones with really ugly modern handwriting. That almost 'bubble' writing that some women* do - if that makes sense. They're not keen on people turning up in person either.

Other places have been better and have sent photocopies which I much prefer because I get to see signatures or 'marks' &c.

Liz The Squeak wrote:"I managed to get back 214 years without spending a penny, other than on paper and pencils. Admittedly, I did still live within 20 miles of where my family originated and actually in the town where the archived records were kept, but it was a lot more informative than just ticking off certificates".

Well, yes, if it's on the doorstep I think everyone would do it that way. ;) But, as you know, not everyone is that lucky. Unfortunately for me, a lot of my ancestors lived in a tiny area divided slap bang on top of three county boundaries and so the Local Records Offices are in very different areas. I've got something like 60 years of the same family living in 4 counties but not actually moving that far in terms of miles. Yet the relevant records offices are all over.

The only time I dropped lucky was when some of the Cheshire-related ones were kept in Manchester Central Library and could play about with the reels and microfiche.



*Yeah, I know some blokes write like they've got a crayon between their teeth too - it's not a misogynist thing.

Subject: RE: BS: 1911 UK Census - anyone using it?
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 06:13 PM

A plug for your local library here: Ancestry is available free of charge (though not including the 1911 data yet, as mentioned above) at Public Network terminals.

(Free of charge of course assuming that your library does not charge for computer access... the counties I have experience of do not charge.)