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BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction
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Subject: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM The Forum Menu flashed a list of auction items available today, and on the top of the list was Bobert's keyboard. Spaw is up for auction, and I'm down a bit on the list. Of the four items available on the auction, three are gags. I'm wondering what you think. It seems so often that we get carried away with silliness. If somebody posts a gag, twenty people post a copycat gag - and then it gets tedious. Somebody started a song titled "Australian songs of influence," and now we have a thread called "Australian songs of flatulence." On top of that, there are SIX "Should we care about..." threads active today. What's THAT about? Humor is wonderful - when it's clever and original - but copycat humor soon gets tedious. So, I dunno. I don't want to make a new rule and say that humor is fine, but stupidity and obnoxious repetition are not allowed. To my mind, a rule like that would itself be stupid - and obnoxious. While humor can be wonderful, repetition has a much lower batting average. So, anyhow, that's what I think. Why don't you just look at this message and say, "Joe's had a hard day, and he needs to vent"; and then ignore me.... Maybe you could say, "Joe's pissed off because he hasn't had any love, -Joe- P.S. Still, be aware that perhaps too many attempts at humor in the wrong place, may not be universally welcomed by your brother and sister Mudcatters. Or, maybe Joe's just a grouch. But anyhow, do you think maybe we could reserve the auction for serious items for a while, so maybe we could use it to make money? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:02 PM Since I was too timid to start a thread like this, I'll just say "amen" to Joe's. Some of the 'humor' and copycat thread titles are beyond tedious...but so is extreme censorship....so I guess if folks can't restrain their more juvenile attempts at cleverness, they can put up with others going *tsk, tsk* at them occasionally.' *TSK, TSK* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:11 PM The keyboard is in the Auction NOT to be a joke, but because it has a fine tradition of nutty posts that any Mudcatter worth their salt ought to appreciate. As one who has actually seen and used the Bobert's letter-less keyboard, I can tell you that it is indeed a collector's item. Joe, you so often completely miss what I am doing and then go at me with a corrective. Please don't act like an old crabby nun with me anymore! :~) But I agree about the plethoroa of "care" threads. This is not MSN news. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:13 PM And PS, Joe, if the Auction makes money on the Joe and Spaw auctions, money is money. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:20 PM ...I was aware of the possibility of indignant responses. I guess it's best not to say anything if something bugs me, because somebody's likely to get indignant. Oh, well. Nonetheless, that's what I think. The keyboard auction would have been fine without the other stuff, but not when the balance of the auction is 75% fluff. Forgive me for being honest. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Melissa Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:32 PM Inside Jokes are an excellent way of keeping outsiders outside. They're clique behavior. It seems to me that we go through phases where smug superiority and clique behavior surge and although I do not ache and worry about not being an Insider, I don't care much for the exclusionary stuff. The 'should we care' title seem a little bit sneery to me. I don't look at them because I'm simply not interested in having anybody's opinion on what we should think/feel. That might not even be what the threads are like..but that's how the title strikes me. I've been a little bit curious about the auction lately. When does bidding end for the Man Items? It's lasting a long time. Bobert's keyboard doesn't bother me. It also doesn't seem like a real moneymaker at a time when a little moneymaking is due. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Rapparee Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:43 PM You can change the expiration day for Spaw -- I figured it wrong and it should have ended on St. Patrick's day. Blame my math. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: olddude Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:52 PM Joe and Friends Just put a very nice Dell D600 Notebook with centrino mobile wireless on the auction for the cat and that is not a joke hope it helps Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:21 PM I've very tired of the individual caption threads for silly photogs that are posted by one mudcatter. I think she should do them all on one place. I'm totally uninterested in the duplicate threads, the wordplay doesn't contribute much and they make more work for moderators. (Sorry, LH, I know you start a lot of clever ones, but not everyone is as good at it as you are.) There are a lot of daily threads lately that could be more efficiently pulled into one larger subject, though there were some that were running for a while a few years back that were very interesting. (The Happy? Happy! threads, in particular.) The same people tend to post to the repetition threads, so why make them work by spreading them around to be discovered? Look at the incredibly tidy and efficient Mother of All BS threads. We haven't wasted forum space by starting new threads, we take care of it all in one place and are almost always always delighted when newcomers visit. We did evict MartinGibson a couple of times. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Bobert Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:32 PM Awwww, what the hey??? Two bucks!!! (You idiot, Boberdz.... You allready own the miserabloe thing...) Nevermind, I retract my bid... B~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Sorcha Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:56 PM Joe, I've mentioned it before, and been shot down in flames, by you, among others. So, there it is. I'm tired of copycat stuff. I could care LESS if somebody bought a stumpet or a strumpet. Do what you like, I just am not here much anymore anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Gurney Date: 25 Feb 09 - 03:10 AM It takes all sorts to make a world, and a fair selection of them are here on Mudcat. I don't contribute to threads that don't appeal to me, threads that have been hijacked or started by paople with an axe to grind, or threads where the wit has degenerated, IMO anyway, and the thread deserves to die. I don't think I've contributed to the 'Your Caption' threads, but I've enjoyed the pictures. On the other hand, I don't want the humourless people, or the super-sensitive, or the singleminded ones, to control the content of this artificial community. So, I open and skim a lot of the BS threads, and take it more carefully if it looks promising. I examine the thread titles in the music section, and contribute if I can. I'm usually too late to help, with the time difference. Joe, I appreciate that you have to read every post, in your capacity as moderator, and many will be tiresome to you. However, if the BS section wasn't there, then this would be a less interesting place for me and presumably some others, those who contribute mostly below the line, and if people are contributing, then they must be interested! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: GUEST,Dani Date: 25 Feb 09 - 05:52 AM I too, am on the fence. When I glance at the front page and see all the silliness, I usually just go away, because I don't have time to sift through to see what's worthwhile. So, it definitely keeps me away. But I am also not a fan of censoring things, and appreciate your hard look at it, Joe. Maybe the auction SHOULD be left for $$, and the BS for BS. Has anyone thought of re-titling BS into all NON-music under the line, then under that, humor, or personal news, whateve? Leave it open for headlines to suit the thread? So, why the hell did I open this one and read it, then? Don't know, but I'm glad I did. It's a good conversation to have in this ever growing, changing community. I'm glad you're on watch, Joe. Thanks. Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: jacqui.c Date: 25 Feb 09 - 07:54 AM Inside Jokes are an excellent way of keeping outsiders outside. They're clique behavior. I'm sorry you feel that way Melissa. Many of us have been visiting the Mudcat for a lot of years and have got to know each other in cyber space and, quite often, in real life. Friendships have developed over that time and, as is the case in any social situation, there will be occassions when a newcomer to the group feels that they are slightly out of it. What do you do in those situations, Melissa? You cannot expect everyone in any group you join to avoid anything that goes farther back then you within the group. If you feel there's an in joke that you don't understand ask someone about it or just relax back and accept that, as in the real world, there will always be stuff that goes over your head. I've been visiting thos board for about seven years now and there is still some history that I'm not aware of. Of course, you could go back and start reading all the threads that have gone onto the 'Cat since it started - then you would be as well informed as anybody here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:09 AM Joe, I'm with you on this one. Those copy cat threads are tedious, so I avoid them. They take time to read and they are not funny. I suppose they do serve a purpose for those who really don't have anything to say but must say something anyway. The Irish have a great word for it...Blather. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jeri Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:13 AM One of the things that attracted me to Mudcat was the level of intelligence and wit. Currently, I think we mostly reward stupidity and the complete lack of originality. Play that joke again, dude. The titles are enough to turn me off. Stupid copycat shit that wasn't funny years ago and idiots who copy/paste ever news article they like with little or no opinion of their own. To much work to think up their own posts. I don't think Joe reads every post. Personally, I avoid almost all of the political discussions because it's mostly the same people bitching about the same stuff and finding infinite ways of repeating themselves. Personally, I'd like to see the 'look how funny I am' stuff removed from the auction. It's obvious those things are just meant to boost someone's ego. REAL joke items, meant to raise money, I don't have a problem with. No more copycat threads. If you REALLY want to talk about something, give it its own title. Copy/pastes of news articles deleted. I don't have a problem with people quoting bits of stories to support their views, but no copying whole articles. This makes it easy for our resident trolls. No work involved. I also believe the practice is a violation of copyright. I expect the unoriginal and dull will be quite outspoken in the defense of these 'funny' and 'enlightening' activities. I doubt anything will change here, but I think Mudcat has become a 'home' for some really stupid shit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:19 AM Amen Jeri. Seems like this all proves that old saying: "Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Becca72 Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:33 AM I don't even open most of the copycat threads because it does get old very quickly. In defense of one particular thread type, I greatly enjoy the caption threads and think they should be left just as they are. Those of us who like them go in and contribute (or just look) and in a day or two they drop off the bottom. You couldn't pay me enough to open the MOAB thread at this point because it is so large and tedious. Basically I guess my feelings are if you don't like it, don't open it. As for the auction I do think it should be reserved for actual money makers and not silliness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Melissa Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM Thanks Jacqui, I'm no doubt either honored or sufficiently chastised. Since that's an entirely different topic, maybe somebody could start a thread called "Why Melissa's opinion isn't as valid as every body else's" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Feb 09 - 09:18 AM Joe, or anyone, are you really under the impression that the current auction threads are not meant to raise actual money??? What-- you never saw a dunk tank at a carnival? That's a fundraiser too, not an exhibition. Sometimes people like to have a little fun while donating money. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Newport Boy Date: 25 Feb 09 - 09:35 AM I've just added a Tom Lehrer CD set to the auction - so get bidding (and donating)! Phil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:04 AM There are ways to handle the non-music stuff that don't overload the thread count. Copy/pastes of news articles deleted. I don't have a problem with people quoting bits of stories to support their views, but no copying whole articles. That would get shot down in a hurry. The rule here is that you should do a one-screen story paste (according to the size of Joe's story). My pet peeve is the new thread for each story. There are a number of us who regularly pull up the thread started for sharing interesting newspaper articles between newspaper readers, called "News of Note ('was I read it. . .')." It if is on the 24-hour screen, that is a clue that there is some interesting new story to go in and take a look at. Remarkable how well that works. The original thread would still be going except it was being hijacked daily by a spamming troll. The new title seems to have come in under the spam radar (so far). So if you enjoy these silly photos in each new thread with a solitary silly photo, wouldn't it be so much easier for you to GO TO THE SAME THREAD all of the time to see the silly photos? Drop to the bottom of the thread and look at the newest offering. Trace it and just go there, then you don't have to scan the entire BS page for the new name of the new silly photo. This isn't rocket science. Some of us lump information together, some of us sort it out. It's the sort who sort who need to learn to lump. In my opinion. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jeri Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:06 AM Susan, I don't think the primary purpose of the threads is to raise money. Max needs money now, and the Spaw on has close to a year left while the Joe one was started in Nov and still has 103 days. It looks like sometime in May, the Joe thread will pay off. On the other hand, our complaining about the 'no poster left behind', 'dumb and dumber' nature of what passes for humor here has resulted in some really nice additions to the Auction. I don't need another computer, but I swear if nobody bids on that Dell, I'm gonna get it for $10. (Note to olddude (nobody else read this): there's no way in hell I'd rip that laptop off for $10.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:14 AM Melissa, who says your opinion is not as valid as others? Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't automatically invalidate the other person's opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Melissa Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:17 AM I don't think it has any place in this thread, Kendall. The discussion at hand (as I understand it) is a question of what we all think about a particular topic, not a question of how I handle lifelike social situations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Donuel Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:18 AM My $400,000 home is up for County auction for $8,000 on March 6th and thats no gag. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:43 AM Oops, Joe's "screen," not story. Don, you still haven't gotten that sorted out? It's obscenely absurd. Who is behind it? No clue yet? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:49 AM Jeri, I think it was said elsewhere that the auction date on one of those was a mistake that needed to be fixed. I'd like to see a post here from the folks who started them, what their plan was. But even if it WAS a joke, that doesn't mean bidders didn't place serious bids. I've already clarified the Joe Offer one with a post reminding folks that a bid is a bid, and upped mine as well which, if I "win," I certainly plan to pay. And I will commit to PMing anyone who wins one of those to see if they plan to pay, and if not I will go back down the list of bidders and get a donation. I think Joe and a few others here owe a $5 fine for whining, and guess what-- there is an Auction thread for THAT, too. I'll send mine for the PM I sent Joe before I realized it would be much more productive to just bid him up. :~) Play nice, people, remember? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Rapparee Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:56 AM Yes, I figured the date for Spaw wrong. It should end on St. Patrick's Day, March 17. I thought it a good day for anyone named "Pat." That's what I get for using a calendar instead of a slide rule. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: katlaughing Date: 25 Feb 09 - 10:57 AM I agree, mostly, with Joe, Jeri, and SRS. I think the caption threads would be better in one thread. I, too, have really grown weary of the copycat inanity and it's been a number of years since it started. Enough is enough! The auction stuff...well, if it makes money, I guess, but it does seem kind of silly...I don't think it hurts anything, but I'd rather see the auction the way it has been, with more items of note. There are a couple of people in this thread who are a bit miffed at one another and they are friends of mine whom I care about. I hope everyone will step back and take a short breather and remember it is difficult to understand just how to interpret someone's written words without seeing their facial expressions, etc. to go along with them. I am sure no offence was meant and know both are caring, giving individuals with much to offer this site. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:02 AM Perhaps the auction could have two parts, one for "items of note" and one for "fun" fundraising ~ a bit like above the line and below the line. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:08 AM Sorry, but you opened the door with your suggestion that someone should start a thread on why your opinion is not as valid as others. If I were to walk into a room where people were discussing things that happened some time ago I certainly wouldn't expect them to stop and cater to me. If you stick around long enough you too will be an "insider". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:09 AM I think I missed something - the Joe and Spaw auctions are a joke? And an inside one at that? I have plans for them when I win - serious plans. But as usual I will put in the winning bid at midnight of the close. When I first came to Mudcat, I mildly told Spaw off and was severely (LOL) admonished by the locals. It happens. Do a search on ocarinas, Rick Fielding, nose flutes, layaboutsatlarge, potatoes and green thongs and you will be as "in" as anybody, Melissa. There is also an ongoing bit of nonsense about Big Mick, an engagement ring and a gorilla named KoKo. Some of the nonsense here is very witty and worth the read. Some is pure crap. That is the internet and the price to be paid for the free membership Mudcat offers. One hard and fast rule to keep in mind is that if you choose to post an opinion, someone will respond and more than likely disagree with your opinion. The ability to disagree and still remain friendly is one of the wonders of Mudcat. If anyone doubts that I have pictures of Bearded Bruce and Bobert smiling together with Amos in the background. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Rapparee Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:11 AM They had just dismembered Amos? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jeri Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM Rap, St Pat's day of which year? I'm not miffed with anyone else in this thread. Some of us can be prickly at times, and that's just the way we are. That doesn't mean I don't think they're good folks, because I do. I don't expect I'll be pulling punches regarding things I don't like, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Melissa Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:18 AM I posted my opinion in a thread where the OP asked what we think. I was invited into this conversation along with everybody else..I didn't stumble in off the street. This sideline does not belong in the discussion and I see no point in dragging it out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jeri Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:21 AM ok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: katlaughing Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:23 AM Sometimes we old-timers forget what it was like to be a newbie. I remember having a knock-down-drag-out because I was worried about how Mudcat would be perceived if someone came on and saw, first thing, an historical but racist thread title in the music section. That was years ago and we worked through it, but it still really concerned me. As to reading old threads...it is a good way to learn more, if one has the time. There are a couple of lists of "memorable" ones in the Newcomer's Guide (well-hidden I might say, sorry Joe, in the drop down menu at the top of the thread titles.) In the meantime, I will make an effort to post a link back to whatever might explain an "inside joke" when I post a reference to one. It only takes a couple of minutes and if it helps someone to feel more included then I am happy to do so. luvya'llkat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Melissa Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:24 AM Sinsull: I agree, there are definitely some brilliant minds at play here. If this thread had seemed to be one of the pouncing kind, I would not have posted an opinion. My mistake--lesson learned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: katlaughing Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:24 AM (Sorry, was typing away when the moratorium was called.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:28 AM We all have our opinions about what should and should not be posted here, but the fact is, the only opinion that counts in that regard is Joe and Max. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:33 AM "This sideline does not belong in the discussion and I see no point in dragging it out." So why keep harping on it? You brought up a valid point. Now you have to listen to others' opinions. That's the way it works. Posting since 1998 and regularly since '07 hardly qualifies you as a "newbie". What clique are you and I not a member of? I need to know. My opinion: I find the periodic threads about cliques and non-inclusive special groups along with the endless tedium about anonymous clones as wearying as the stupid copycat threads. And I can't wait to see kat's explanation of lime green thongs, dentists and potatoes... Back to work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:48 AM I don't see a laptop in the auction...Hmmm? 2 hours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:49 AM I think the silly threads are started because people are lonesome and want someone to talk to. And the Mudcat is a pool of people who can carry on a conversation. For example, I doubt if a bunch of teenagers would even know what a strumpet is. However, I feel that the moderators have the right to say 'This thread isn't going anywhere and is closed to save Mudcat resources.' How about that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 12:05 PM It's there Bill. I just bid on it. And thank you for the invite. Not likely I will be down your way for the concert. And Seamus prefers my back yard to almost anywhere except, of course, my couch. M |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: katlaughing Date: 25 Feb 09 - 12:16 PM Did I bring up "green thongs, dentists and potatoes?" Why do I have to be the one to always explain this crap?!**BigGrin** First hit for green thongs First hit for green thongs AND potatoes (notice the poster's name!) As to the three of them combined...Super Search says there ain't no sich anymall...Sins is dreaming OR it has to do with jimmyt and there are a LOT of posts with just "dentist!" BTW, where's he been lately? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Feb 09 - 12:19 PM He posted not so long ago.... maybe uncookied. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Jeri Date: 25 Feb 09 - 01:53 PM Oops, no laptop in the auction Bill. My bad--nevermind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Rapparee Date: 25 Feb 09 - 02:04 PM Dell Latitude D600 Notebook w/Centrino Mobil is certainly in the Auction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 02:09 PM What's the difference between a laptop and a notebook? SINS, who is still trying to get the Ipod Shuffle out of the plastic case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 09 - 03:11 PM Well, I just learned something....I went back to the auction and the laptop still was not there. There were only 3 items. With sudden inspiration, I hit 'reload' on the auction page, and all the new items were there. Somehow, it was getting old data from my cache, I guess...but I had posted and reloaded Mudcat in general several times. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A laptop and a notebook are essentially the same. There is a new sort of thing called a 'netbook', which is just designed for internet access and is smaller and has no CD drive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: kendall Date: 25 Feb 09 - 07:50 PM I went in there and sure enough there it was...gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 08:23 PM What's gone? Both the notebook and the infamous keyboard are in the auction with bids. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: Janie Date: 25 Feb 09 - 09:13 PM And I keep waiting for somebody to outbid me on 'Spaw, 'specially since the close date got moved up. I started to say I hate payin' somethin' fer nothin', but, but it wouldn't be nothin' at all. It's Mudcat! If I win (or is that lose), maybe I'll tie a bow around his neck and ship him to Max along with the check. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Keyboard in Auction From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 09 - 09:18 PM I thought I did. A bow around his neck? Noooooo. We will get Karen's cooperation and tie it elsewhere. Poor Max. |
