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BS: Obama Goes For Broke
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Subject: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 27 Feb 09 - 07:31 PM The title is just so the righwingers around here can't complain that they aren't given anything to work with. Obama seems to have decided that carpetbombing and shock and awe is the way to go forward. I withdraw any remark about maybe he isn't going to be as daring as he promised. The justice department stuff, and the ridiculous refusal to go for universal health care (the only plausible solution, not hurling more money at a broken system) are doubtful; but the 10 year budget and the overall agenda are finally someone standing up to the Republican nonsense. Now if the Chinese don't pull the money plug....... Hey, and finally people are going to see pictures of dead soldiers' coffins. A little reality goes a long, long way. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 27 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM Peter T. Perhaps being President requires more responsible actions than being a candidate does. Maybe President Obama knows something now that President Bush knew then, and Peter T. nor JotSC will ever know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 27 Feb 09 - 08:31 PM I note as a sidebar (nuclear energy proponents take heed) that one of the budget wrinkles (thanks to Reid being from Nevada) is that Yucca Mountain storage facility for waste is now dead). But that doesn't exactly solve the problem...... yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Feb 09 - 08:36 PM We shall see. Can he carry Congress along? Interesting times ahead. I am afraid a lot of the money will go to projects that will not help recovery, but I dunno. All major economies seem to have the same plans, so the U. S. is not acting in isolation. I don't agree with the Afganistan increase- I think the Taliban and the Pushtun people who support them will just pull back and wait for a more propitious time. Credit and support of Israel should be stopped until they agree to an equitable settlement of Palestinian grievances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 09 - 08:39 PM People are only going to see coffins where the family memebers of the deceased agree to have them shown... Otherwise, none will be shown... But yeah, Obama is a purdy smart and savy guy who realizes that the country is at a crossroads... Now, blues lore has it that when you are at the crtoosroads that you have the option of making a deal with the devil but in doing so you will have great powers... Ahhhhh, I "hope" this isn't the situation... I rather think that Obama realizes that it's time to turn away from 30 years of Reaganomics and back toward the Great Society and the New Deal... The US hasn't done well with the Reagan model of late... Now some folks would argue that Obama is copying the European model and would warn that that hasn't turned out all the great either... I really don't know... I do know that the Reagan model is badly broken and ain't workin'... And I think that Obama knows this as well so... ...roll the dice... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: CarolC Date: 27 Feb 09 - 09:12 PM In this context, are the terms shock and awe and carpetbombing being used metaphorically? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Feb 09 - 10:25 PM "(thanks to Reid being from Nevada) is that Yucca Mountain storage facility for waste is now dead)." Hopefully not. It's the one source of energy that will keep consumerism going, it that's what you want. If not, Yucca Mountain is a really poor place to attack the problem, it seems to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bill D Date: 27 Feb 09 - 10:40 PM No one has yet found a real solution to the 20,000-30,000 year half-life of some of these wastes. A number of years ago, they were sure they could bury it in salt mines in Kansas, about 40 miles from where I lived. Then someone pointed out that sat is a fluid.....a slow fluid, to be sure...but it moves, and no one could prove where it would go in 30,000 years. The only real 'disposal' would be to shoot it at the Sun in rockets....but the cost and only a 97% success rate in launching rockets made 'em give up that idea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Feb 09 - 10:46 PM It wouldn't bother me if folks around the country decided not to further develope nuclear energy, as long as they were willing to scale back their standard of living to justify the move. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,Slag Date: 27 Feb 09 - 11:34 PM With Monopoly Money (reg.) in such great supply, yes! Go for broke, Obama! How audacious! What's 13 trillion? Just shake a little more out of those filthy rich bastards! You all deserve their money, not them! So what if they turn turtle and try to hang onto what they've got. So what if they close up shop and stop doing business. We can make bricks WITHOUT straw! Meanwhile on the reality front in Iraq/Afghanistan things are a little more dicey. I would assume that Mr. Obama is getting a close look at what Iran is and what the conditions are in Afghanistan. Looks like, well, not ENDLESS war but maybe just 10 more years and then we'll see. Hell, it's Bush's fault anyhow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Amos Date: 28 Feb 09 - 01:53 AM Slag: Those sweeping nabobberies have no semantic substance to them. Take some deep breaths and consider the actual vectors involved, not your imaginary cartoon version. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 28 Feb 09 - 04:03 AM I don't have any problem with increasing taxes on the wealthy, but I'm not naive enough to think it's going to equal more money in my pocket. The wealthy make their money by selling goods or services to the less than wealthy. Increase taxes on them and they just pass the increase on to us in the form of higher prices. Having them pay higher taxes just turns them into de facto tax collectors for the rest of us. It doesn't matter how many times you shuffle a deck of cards, there's still gonna be the same 52 cards in it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peace Date: 28 Feb 09 - 02:38 PM AMEN to THAT! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: dick greenhaus Date: 28 Feb 09 - 03:35 PM Hmm- Isn't there a difference between personal and corporate income? I don't see that concentrating personal wealth in the hands of a very few--and that concentration has been the result of government policy, not Horatio Alger type hard work--does anyone else any good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 28 Feb 09 - 04:23 PM Boy, you listen to Obama's radio address this afternoon, and he is really going for it. He's really decided to be FDR, and I say more power to him. It is quite awe-inspiring. He seems to have got religion at last! But the wolves are going to be after him..... yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Amos Date: 28 Feb 09 - 06:24 PM He has decided to be Obama, and do what he can, I think; if people paint him up as an imitation of FDR it is because of the similarity of thier situations, but the differences are legion. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 09 - 07:31 PM Well, I heard Rush Limbaigh on TV this evening and he has to be lovin' Obama... I mean, ol' Rush's veins were poppin' outta his head like some mental case or TV wrestler... He was throwin' the "S word" (socialist) around like it was a bob-a-link (remember them)... I mean, he was havin' a blast... Rush has waited his entire life for Obama... But let's get real here... By restoring the tax level on the upper wage (haha) earners to pre-Bush-tax-cuts day the Treasurt Dept will take in somewhere around $900B... That ain't chump change... Will Obam have to raise taxes on the middle class down the road??? Probably will if he gets some form of national health care thru but in doing that he will be taking the burden off the costs that the middle class is now paying... So I see that as a wash... Ya know, this is fun... Yeah, I know that alot of folks, myself included, are being severely pinched by the economic messes that 30 years of Reaganonmics have left, but it is exciting to see that folks just don't buy into that old "government-is-bad" stuff that came with Reaganonomics... I just wished that Reagan himself was still alive so he could see just how badly he has messed the country up... Yeah, that's my only regret... Go get 'um, Barack!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 28 Feb 09 - 07:37 PM I meant on the scale of FDR. Of course one difference is that FDR had more control over Congress. So Obama is in big trouble there. And another is of course the endless free market blather that has gone on for so long. The idea that governments can invest in society for the common good is going to take some time to resurrect. (Of course in Herbert Hoover's day there were powerful versions of this sanctimony too). It is sure going to be interesting to watch. Some members of his government (Hilary?) must be wondering if this is going to be Clinton Mark I all over again, rather than FDR. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 09 - 09:20 PM I don't think so, Peter... Obama's approval rate is in the high 60s and even Domocrats in Congress in the high 30's... This means that Obam can spend some capital and brow-beat the Dems in Congress and get enough Repubs who are from blue leaning states (like Maine) to get thru the bulk of what he is proposing... Plus, in the the words of Bill Clinton, Obama has the microphone... Having the microphone is like having home field advantage... One last thing... Obma just today said that he undersatnds that it is going to be a fight to get his agenda thru Congress but followed that up with, "I'm ready to fight"... We didn't see Obama the fighter in the campaign... We saw Obama the Coool, Obama the Intellect, Obama the Smiler but never Obama the Fighter... I'm lookin' forward to watching him use his political capital, which BTW seems to increase with every stand he takes, take on Washington... This is gonna be fun... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,heric Date: 28 Feb 09 - 09:34 PM (I think they're talking about financial carpet bombing, Carol. I don't see any news items about bombing in Afghanistan.) God I would be SO popular with $13 trillion. . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,heric Date: 28 Feb 09 - 09:53 PM Did you know that all of the households in all of the US combined make/earn/receive less than $5 trillion gross? (I'm not saying I disapprove of the budget - just for perspective.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: CarolC Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:16 PM Civilization is inherently socialist. There's no way around it. Any time people pool their resources and energies for a common purpose, they're practicing a form of socialism. People who are phobic about the idea of socialism are misinformed if they think they have the option of not being a part of a socialist society unless they go live in alone in a cave and hunt/gather all of their own food (using sticks and rocks as weapons). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,Slag Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:24 PM Nabobberies? Gee Amos, do you know something I don't? I'll let you know when I make my first million. With the anticipated inflation rate, it shouldn't be too long. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Ebbie Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:31 PM heric, let's keep it straight and acknowledge where the $13T figure comes from, and also acknowledge the ballooning it underwent in the last 8 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: dick greenhaus Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:38 PM Any physicists here? I would think that anything with a half-life of 20,000-30,000 years wouldn't emit enough radiation to bother anybody--if I'm wrong, please correct me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:11 AM It depends on various assumptions. For some people low-level radiation is troublesome; for others, they don't believe it is anything to worry about. For some people additional radiation of any kind is unacceptable; for others it is. Technically -- at least the materials I work with -- there are different decay times, and in fact some of them peak much later than 20,000 years (peaking here being relative to a low level start). The management problem is more like: can we actually manage anything to stay put without leakage, etc., for any length of time that matters (not 20,000 years but, let's say 1000)? So far, no one has come up with anything that everyone -- including reasonable engineers -- can agree on is perfectly safe. If perfection is what you are after..... yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:16 AM Returning to the very short term, I think the problem is not that Obama isn't popular, it is that it doesn't translate very well into votes where it matters. The Republican core against him has nothing to lose by being completely in opposition for the next two years (the next election). It will make them feel embattled and noble, and allow them to regroup around their theological orthodoxy, etc. We have already seen that happen. It means that whatever Obama wants to do, he has to take every one of his own party with him, plus the extra Republicans he needs. EVERY SINGLE TIME. The polls don't really matter here, except in getting his own people in line. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: akenaton Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM That's right Peter, and the more popular Mr Obama becomes with "Joe Public", the less likely his people are to stay "in line", especially with the assumed agendas of many of his administration! I hardly think Hillary will be fighting "beak and claw" to promote loyalty to Mr Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Ebbie Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:26 AM Secretary Clinton, ake, has shown no lack of loyalty. She is a political animal, she is pragmatic, she is focused and she wants the side she is on to succeed. No one knows better than she that only one candidate can take the top spot and I have no doubt that she accepts that. Being Secretary of State isn't chopped liver, you knonw. Various Secretaries have made a huge mark on this country. After all, Secretary of State William Seward bought Alaska and his name has gone down in history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:08 PM Actually, apart from Geitner and Larry Summers (these guys worry me), I think Obama has a pretty good cabinet (compared to the last bunch of total yes men and women, and criminals). There's a lot of pragmatic knowledge in there. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:14 PM Hate to differ with you, Ake, but my feeling is that Obama has brought in alot of independent thinkers who all seem to have one thing in common and that one thing is to be part of what may one day be looked back upon as the finest administartion since FDR... That's a lot of motivation to do things right... I have no fear whatsoever of Clinton... Hillary, that is... Bill is still Bill and he will, from time to time, open moutn and insert foot... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: akenaton Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:57 PM "I have no fear whatsoever of Clinton... " Bobert my friend.....be afraid!.....be very afraid!! and if you're Mr Obama...be petrified! The appointment of Hillary the Hawk as secretary of State, was the biggest mistake in an administration riddled with contradictions. This woman has ambitions and is perfectly placed to become the face of America abroad, while Mr Obama becomes submerged in financial problems and civil unrest. Aided and abetted by the other Mr Clinton, she is right in position to add to Mr Obama's problems. This is all about politics and power, Mr Obama's job was to beat the Republicans.....now get set for America's first female President....Coming Soon!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM Oh, goodie! I preferred her in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Ebbie Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:45 PM Ake, Thou art spinning fantasies out of whole cloth that make sense to thee alone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Ron Davies Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:49 PM Situation normal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:54 PM Actually, I think that the story of the administration is going to be that Hilary falls in love with Obama. You read it here first. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: akenaton Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM Shucks!...Thar aint no accountin fer taste.....(spit) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: akenaton Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:12 PM Goldarn it!! thet wis meant fer ol' Q |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Ebbie Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:13 PM Which one of them do you fancy? :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: akenaton Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:43 PM Think they probably deserve each other Ebbs..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: CarolC Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:34 PM Wouldn't be the first Secretary of State to fall in love with the president, I suppose... :-\ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:52 PM Does anybody here know the total income of all of the top 2% of tax US payers added together is? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,heric Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:41 PM I don't, but in 2005 The top 1 percent of filers held 21.8 percent of all reported income, with an average of $1.1 million. There about 150 million tax returns filed- I don't know how many people that represents, or if the figure above is based on "filings" or "people." (I think its filings.) I guess these numbers are changing quickly from week to week now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:05 PM OK 150,000,000 returns filed They are paying what percentage now and how much is Obama going to raise it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:57 PM Sure, he's going for broke! He got elected, and the nation is now going broke!..Stock market is now less than half it was, since he was nominated!..Oh well,..being as living in denial is part of the far left mind set..you probably can't see it...........or care... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Don Firth Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM Living in denial? Who's living in denial here? Clinton left the country with a budget surplus. Look what Bush, in a mere eight years, left behind! And the Repubs and Right Wingers want more of the same! One of the definitions of insanity is to keep repeating the same actions, each time expecting a different result. SHEESH! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:32 PM Someday, Ake, I predict you will have a flash of insight and notice the sheer volume of fear, anger and hatred which has been informing so many of your thought processes, lo, these many year. It will be a sockdologer of an epiphany, I warrant. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: CarolC Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:44 PM The economy was already in a nose dive when he took office. An economy that big doesn't get turned around over night. The policies he's putting in place now will probably not make a noticeable difference until 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Peter T. Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:42 PM And if Rush Limbaugh keeps saying he hopes Obama will fail, we might well see the demise of the Republican party. Bring on class warfare. It would be interesting to see what a moderately right wing party might look like -- a Burkean party again. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Goes For Broke From: Donuel Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:49 PM just say no and hope we fail cartoon |
