BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: DougR
Date: 22 Mar 09 - 04:41 PM

Greg F.:your problem, however, is the word objective. Perhaps you should look that up.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 09 - 06:38 PM

And Douggie my lad, you'd do yourself a world of good- and save the rest of us A real pai8n in the ass, if you would look up, and comprehend, and internalize, the definition od the world "reality".

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: DougR
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 02:00 PM

Greggie: Sticks and stones, etc. etc.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 12:55 PM

It seems to me that the prisoners at GITMO are simpy a distraction.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:21 PM

Predictably infantile & irrelevant response, Douggie, but you forgot the "nyah, nyah"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 02:50 PM

I though it interesting at last night's News Conference that no one reporter asked a single question about Iraq or Afghanistan. I guess things must be getting better there.

Could that be the first such news conference in the past seven and a half years that Iraq hasn't come up? Possibly.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 02:42 PM

Now that the election is over, maybe Obama's handlers don't want him talking about Iraq and Afghanistan.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 03:24 PM

WHat complete horsepucky. His handlers? He has spoken about both items numerous times since he was sworn in. His handlers?? Have you seen his performance of this morning on the real-time on-line town hall? Oh--guess what, acid-mouths--no teleprompter, completely coherent, insightful and reasonable expositions on major questions from the audience.

Your bitterness, I fear, is blinding you to the present of competency as much as some people's infatuation blinded them to massive ineptitude in the last Administration.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 11:12 AM

What he said on the campaign trail reflected what his handlers thought he needed to say to get elected. What he is doing and saying now is what his handlers want him to do and say to promote their own personal agendas.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 12:05 AM

Looks like he was saving what he had to say about Afghanistan for today's speech. Seems like a good idea to me... don't overwhelm people with too much information all at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: fumblefingers
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 08:31 PM

Exactly who are these Neo-cons? Names?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:45 PM

"Looks like he was saving what he had to say about Afghanistan for today's speech...."


             I could be his handlers didn't tell him what the plan was for Afghanistan. Or maybe they told him but decided it would be better to wait to let the public in on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 12:19 AM

He explained the plan for Afghanistan today, apparently.

The neo-cons are the people who believe in pre-emptive war, and who believe in US unilateralism. Some notable neo-cons are Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, William Kristol, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and quite a few other people who were involved in the Bush administration. I think it could be argued that there are a few neo-cons in the Obama administration as well.

This is where some of the discredited neo-cons from the Bush administration are hanging out these days...

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/lubanlobe.php?articleid=14463

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/26/pnac_20

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 12:25 AM

The constant refrain of "his handlers" implies he is under the control of un-identified mysterious others.

I challenge this implication and request specific names, and evidence that he is being "handled" by anyone, rather than guiding his own administration.

Otherwise, knock off the bull.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 10:44 AM

""his handlers"

we can start with Rahm Emanuel.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 11:35 AM

Rahm is a facilitator of Obama's hiring and Obama's direction. This is not a Bush/Karl Rove or Dick Cheney type relationship--I think to characterize it as even similar is small-minded and near-sighted.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 11:41 AM

If that's what you want to believe ... ok by me.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 11:49 AM

"handlers"?? come on?!? Good one Riginslinger. Its nice to see that your BS has not lost any of its smell. You can still stir people up and take the conversation on silly tangents with a well chosen word.

But one as well versed as you obviously knows that Obama is getting advice from Axelrod and Gibbs and others, but it is plain that he is steering the ship of state. A clear line can be drawn from speeches he made as an Illinois State Senator to the actions he is taking now. Obama is the handler in chief.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 12:28 PM

I think to characterize it as even similar is small-minded and near-sighted.

And also wrong, self-serving and idiotic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 12:46 PM

'"his handlers" we can start with Rahm Emanuel.'


             Of course, and before the election, there was David Axelrod working in conjuction with MoveOn.org, which was bankrolled by none other than George Soros.

             Now, if we can only figure out what George Soros, David Axelrod, and Rahm Emanuel have in common, we might be on to something.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 12:59 PM

Clearly, what they have in common is supporting Obama.

Wow--we've found the Big Handler!!!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM

Gee...could it be that they are all Jewish, according to one definition or another? Clear evidence that the Jews run the world. Could I interest you in a slightly used copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 05:09 PM

Oh no .... don't start this one Art !

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 09:44 AM

Of course, if you listen to Obama's rationale for the Afghanistan war, it is completely ridiculous, this whole notion that about ten thousand tribesmen in the back of beyond are a threat to America. He's just a benign version of the British going into Zululand. When you have an empire, every borderland becomes the tension point.   This whole thing is a concoction, the heady brew distilled from the freak success of Obama Bin Laden's one off masterpiece of terrorism.   Even Gates is quite clear that the Taliban are hardly a threat to the good old USofA.

The real threat, as always, is of educated, disaffected youth already in advanced countries angry at Western nations policies -- the British, French, Germans, and Spanish all know this. That is where the bombs come from.
yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 10:18 AM

Has it been established that the person who brought up Axelrod and Soros even knew they were Jewish before mentioning them in this thread? Because if it has not, then any attempt to smear that person by evoking the Protocols is just nasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 10:22 PM

Well, I wouldn't have made the post if I hadn't been aware that all three of those handlers were addicted to the ancient superstition of Judaism, but to project it to the level of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a little extreme even for me, and to be fair, it seems like that scenario included Free Masons, or something, which wouldn't apply.
               But to go back to the title of the thread, and then to pick up where the neo-cons left off in the previous administration, I don't think it would be out of line to suggest that these folks might have a lot of sympathy for the country of Israel.
               I wonder, if like the hopeless figure we've seen over the last two years of Senator Lieberman--in my view, a foreign national occupying a seat in the US Senate--they might not think it's perfectly fine for Americans to spill blood and waste treasure in what they see as the defense of Israel, whether it's in America's interest or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 06:27 PM

May I suggest articles by Juan Cole who has a reasonable grasp of Afghanistan and the nature of the Taleban and Al Quaeda.

The domino theory is being applied here. The boogeyman was at one time the monster takeover of communism which propelled the US into Vietnam. Now, the boogeyman is Al Quaeda (minimal appearance in Afghanistan) and the nebulous Taleban (where not everyone can be figured as a supporter in that region..Cole says less than 4%).

Obama has to be careful not to talk out of the Bush side of his mouth.

I smell AIPAC here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 07:40 PM

"I smell AIPAC here."

I agree Rig, and we know where Emanuel stands on this issue .... and there are people who actually believe Obama is not under any influence by this guy.

Emmanuel is a very determined person who will not let anyone get in his way.

"Obama caters to neo-cons - more war"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 08:28 PM

The war on terror has been discontinued as a phrase, by Obama.

THe Iraq operation is being phased out, by Obama.

You guys are paranoid.




A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 08:33 PM

I love that "the war on terror has been discontinued"

we're paranoid ... then why is Obama sending more troops into the Afghani?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:21 AM

"Emmanuel is a very determined person who will not let anyone get in his way."

            biLL - A simple Wikipedia search delineating the relationship between Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod should really scare the bejeezes out of any rational thinking American.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 09:37 AM

Well, let's see...a Wikipedia search for "Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod" gets you "no pages with that title found". Individual searches, besides their political and lobbying histories, would tell you that both live in Chicago, both are liberal and both are Jewish. The only thing that mentions them both (in Emanuel's bio) is "Emanuel is a close friend of fellow Chicagoan David Axelrod, chief strategist for the 2008 Barack Obama presidential campaign. Axelrod signed the ketuba, a Jewish marriage contract, at Emanuel's wedding, an honor that goes to a close friend." Sounds real scary to me, but then, I'm not bothered by either Jewish or liberal...although Chicago isn't a place I'd like to spend much time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 09:57 AM

Let's leave the Jewish and Liberal equation out of the discussion.

It's the political views in regards to the mideast situation that is at issue here ... and if anyone has any influence over Obama's military approach to the mideast.

Sure ... he is slowly pulling our of Iraq, but in the meantime moving more troops into the Afghani ... the military prescence is still going to remain over there one way or another. Is this all of Obama's decision or are there some in his court that have a strong influence over these decisions of Obama's.

And let's don't forget he is not calling this a war on terrosm anymore ... it's now disguised or just renamed something else .... whatever it is, the war continues.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 11:34 AM

Two guys are friends and it scares someone...huh.

I'd be a lot more scared, given their current employment, if they were enemies.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 11:42 AM

The falsehood about Bush's militarism was calling it a war on terror in the first place, 6. There is no such thing as war against a generalized condition. It's a boondoggle, and it was used to create war powers that had no reason to be created except the Bush appetite for power.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM

I agree with what you stated Amos .... but I question the current regime's increase of troops in the Afghani to fight a war ... this I feel is a war to increase the U.S. power in the region .... the current regime then states it is not a war against terror but keeping it under the guise of some other name ... all in all it is still a war of power .... I do beleive it is not Obama who is making this decisions aone but certainly some others who are pulling the strings and the one who is closest to Obama (name mentioned earlier) is whispering into his ear.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 02:02 PM

"Two guys are friends and it scares someone...huh."

               The two guys are conspitators with an agenda that is not good for the country. Well, not this country anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 04:41 PM

Rig:

Sounds like you're allergic to chopped liver. Be more specific.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 06:17 PM

You have any evidence of a conspiracy, or any particulars in support of your darned arm-waving generalizations, Rig? Didn't you learn to write simple declarative sentences somewhere?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 06:47 PM

"The two guys are conspitators{sic}with an agenda that is not good for the country. Well, not this country anyway." Go ahead, Rigs - say what you mean. Is it "they are conspiring on behalf of Israel and against the interests of the United States"? And, as Amos said, please provide proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:24 PM

I said what I meant to say, Art. We've seen the proof in (1) The selection of Emanuel for chief of staff, (2) delaying the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, (3) a troop build up in Afghanistan and (4)the rejection of Freeman:

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:30 PM

forget the crap about conspiring .... face the facts, there is a lot of interest within the Washington (as in the U.S.A) machine that has an agenda on behalf of Israel and also big interests in securing that oil rich region .... a new picture of the president may be up in the immigration office in Calais Maine ... but the same old neo-cons still retain a considerable amount of power.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:36 PM

Yes, I suppose "conspiritors" wasn't the best choice of words, but one could make the case that the neo-cons have more power and not less since the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:41 PM

exactly rig.


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:49 PM

The troops may be pulled out of Iran, but Fortress America (the huge U.S. new embassy) will remain, reminding all in the mideast the U.S. has a secure foothold in the area ... and more divisions will be moved over to the Afghani, closer to Pakistan ... Hmmm, what do they fear about Pakistan?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:52 PM

Oooops ... I meant pulled out of Irag, and Fortress America in Baghdad.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 08:51 PM

All I can say is, I am very glad you guys are not in Obama's shoes.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 09:14 PM

Me too .... I hate flip flops   :)

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 08:12 AM

I'd hate to fill his shoes if they were facing Michelle. Yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama caters to neo-cons - more war
From: Amos
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 08:25 PM

Well, keep a civil tongue in your head, you whippersnapper, or we'll have to give you a dose of Basic Decency, First Lady style.



A