BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations

Subject: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 05:19 PM

I didn't see it this morning because I don't watch morning tv but evidently on the NBC Today Show they had a segment on the outrageous fact that in the middle of this bank bailout, politicians are still accepting Political Action Committee contributions from those very same banks.

NBC's Washington Correspondent Chuck Todd says that 36 of the legislators from both sides of the aisle have accepted money from Bank of America, BANCORP, and a host of others, including American Express.

Several of the lawmakers, including Senate President Harry Reid, say they returned the money uncashed. Notable among those who say they did not accept any money was Rep. Barney Franks.

Do as I Say, Not as I Do

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 06:23 PM

Ebbie, while this may be - or actually is - a problem, I think its important to make a distinction. It is flat-out illegal for companies to give money to politicians.   On the other hand, corporation employees can establish political action committees, and the PACs can give to candidates. The amounts individual employees can give are limited, but (as far as I know) there are no restrictions as to the employee's place in the corporate hierarchy. It isn't correct to say that this was a direct payment from TARP-recipient banks to these politicians, and the bank had better not be found to have reimbursed the individual contributions from corporate funds. On the other hand, of course, these people aren't exactly underpaid, even if they end up having to return their bonuses.

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 09:09 PM

Did you listen to the video by any chance?

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 09:19 PM

No - I read the written summary. My hearing is such that I can't follow tv news commentaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 05:06 AM

A list of recipients is at NBC First Read.

A couple of "recipients" are noted as having sent the money back, and others may have done so. As artbrooks noted, no payments direct from companies are indicated; but there is also no real indication of how much of the donated money came from peasants down in the mines and how much was from "top brass."

While some PACs do strongly encourage donations to particular candidates (borderline illegally) for most PACs a donation to a candidate doesn't necessarily support the company view, or advocate for it.

a. la. Ceasar's wife: Those who try to justify something that looks bad may be assumed to be doing something that is bad - even if a miracle happens and it isn't. (I'm not a great believer in miracles.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 05:20 AM

For those who missed it:

MSNBC (Today Show) (video)

A definite flavor of "trying to make a story more interesting than it really is," perhaps - although "proper disclaimers" are rendered.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 10:56 AM

I thought of it as being unacceptable for with one hand accepting taxpayer money and with the other giving money to the legislators that finessed it.

I don't think of that as being uninteresting.

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 12:23 PM

HO hum. Nothing illegal. Employees of most companies do this. That some concerns have received 'bailout' money does not restrict their employees from political activity.

The 29 second adv. for a new Toyota model at the beginning of the MSNBC coverage was interesting, however. Well done!

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 04:59 PM

Ebbie -

The hand that got the money was the corporate hand.

The hand that made the donations was on a separate body consisting of a group of citizens exercising their right to support politicians of their own free choice, who coincidentally happen to be employed by the corporate body.

In the strictest sense of the "theory" behind employee PACs, refusing to accept support from individuals who happen to work for a company that received bailout funds is somewhat akin to denying any employee of such companies the right to vote in the next election.

Just as the company cannot (legally) tell employees who to vote for, the company cannot (legally) tell an employee PAC who to contribute to - or who not to give funds to. Only (in some places) labor unions, and (almost everywhere) churches are permitted such influence.

[Note that this is only in theory(?)]

John

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 07:35 PM

The easy way is just not to give money to ANY of them! Let them fund it out of their own pockets! I will NOT give money to politics. Nope. No way.

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 07:48 PM

PS...I also think there should be a cap on political campaign spending.

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 08:15 PM

But Sorcha, if they can't afford to advertise how would we know which ones are the crooks?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Dble Standards= Banks to PAC Donations
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 01:16 AM

Q -

Side note:

I was going to check on which Toyota was in the commercial, but they're running a different commercial now. On the chance that it was their newest hybrid, you might find the comments at Prius vs Insight of interest. (There's a link to a rather long video of a couple of guys talking about the Prius - in the sidebar.)

Tesla has also shown a prototype of a new 7-passenger all-electric that they claim will "completely revamp the mid-priced auto range," but I don't think I quite agree with them that $79,000 (after $7.500 Federal rebate) is what I'd call "mid-priced." (Their 2-seater "sports car" is still going for $100,000 if I remember the articles I've seen.)

John