BS: Texas Secession

Subject: BS: Texas Secession
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:44 PM

From the Houston Chronicle online, "[Gov] Perry says Texas can leave the union if it wants to"

Comment: Yeah! Like that worked the first time!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:49 PM

Sounds good to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Michael Harrison
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:56 PM

No, what he meant to say is that the Union can leave Texas, as in - behind. Sure, wasn't it Rick Perry who painted the sign - "Remember the Amalo," huh? Yeah, GO RICK - Ricky The Clown. Cheers,....mwh

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:47 PM

Texas wants out? Let 'em go & rename it South America. Not wanted there either, uh?

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:22 PM

Oh, g'wan witchoo. Just because the Bushes moved there doesn't mean the whole state is bad. Ann Richards was all right. And Stilly, Aine, and a whole bunch of other past and present Catters call it home, for better or for worse.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:26 PM

Molly Ivins was okay too. And actually, no, Texas cannot leave the Union any more than any other state can.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:37 PM

That would put them between Little Rock and a hard place.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:41 PM

Does that mean that Texans would be . . .

Wait for it. . .

ILLEGAL ALIENS when they come to the US or Mexico to find work?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:50 PM

Texas IS entitled to divide itself into five separate states, if it wants to, but I doubt it wants to.

It seems suitable to pick up this story from FOX news. Perry is as sleezy as Fox.

---

Governor Says Texans May Want to Secede From Union But Probably Won't
Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, "Secede!"

An animated Perry told the crowd at Austin City Hall -- one of three tea parties he was attending across the state -- that officials in Washington have abandoned the country's founding principles of limited government. He said the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt.

Perry repeated his running theme that Texas' economy is in relatively good shape compared with other states and with the "federal budget mess." Many in the crowd held signs deriding President Barack Obama and the $786 billion federal economic stimulus package.

Later, answering news reporters' questions, Perry suggested Texans might at some point get so fed up they would want to secede from the union, though he said he sees no reason why Texas should do that.

"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."

Perry is running for re-election against U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a fellow Republican. His anti-Washington remarks have become more strident the past few weeks as that 2010 race gets going and since Perry rejected $550 million in federal economic stimulus money slated to help Texas' unemployment trust fund.

Perry said the stimulus money would come with strings attached that would leave Texas paying the bill once the federal money ran out.

He said he believes he could be at the center of a national movement that is coordinated and focused in its opposition to the actions of the federal government.

"It's a very organic thing," he said. "It is a very powerful moment, I think, in American history."

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, also Republicans, have been outspoken against the federal economic stimulus spending and were supportive of tea parties in their states.

The protests, organized throughout the country by conservative groups and talk show hosts, were held on the federal income tax deadline day to imitate the original Boston Tea Party of American revolutionary times.

FOX News' Glenn Beck broadcast live in San Antonio from outside the Alamo, a legendary symbol of Texas independence. Park police estimated 4,000 to 5,000 people packed into the small plaza, many waving signs or carrying little yellow flags that read, "Don't tread on me." A local barbecue chain gave away free cups of iced tea.

Rocker Ted Nugent performed a shredder guitar version of the national anthem, but unlike some rallies elsewhere, San Antonio organizers forbade politicians from speaking.

"They are welcome to come and listen to us, for a change," they said in their statement.

Mike Smart, a 51-year-old oil field worker from West Texas, held up a white handwritten sign that said, "I'll keep my freedom, my $ and my guns. You keep the change."

"I just want the government to stay out of my way. I won't get in their way if they don't get in mine," said Smart, who described himself as conservative but not a Republican.

Government spending, going back multiple administrations, has reached a boiling point with the latest rounds of stimulus spending, he said. While the Bush administration spent heavily before he left office, the Obama administration has fast-tracked big spending, he said.

"Ol' George was going to the same destination. He just didn't want to tell anyone," said Smart.

Another protester, 38-year-old Melva Fried, said the forced ouster of General Motors Corp. CEO Rick Wagoner was the last straw for her -- a symbol the federal government was moving toward socialism.

"When a president can fire the head of a company, that's too much," she said, holding a sign that read "Stop Rewarding Failure."

The sales associate, who considers herself a disaffected Republican, said she doesn't believe the government should bail anyone out, including banks and individual homeowners.

The crowd at the Austin tea party appeared decidedly anti-Democrat. Many of the speakers were Republicans and Libertarians.

One placard said, "Stop Obama's Socialism." Another read, "Some Pirates Are in America," and it showed photographs of Obama, U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wearing pirate hats.

Rebecca Knowlton, 45, of Smithville, said she took the day off of home-schooling her three children and brought them to the rally to teach them about civic duty. She felt camaraderie at the demonstration.

"The movement is growing stronger," she said. "You're not alone."

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:51 PM

P.S. Perry is an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:18 AM

Its always the South that fires the first shot.

Perhaps they will settle back down if they got slavery back.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:41 AM

Could the union make them pay to move that big fence if they did?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:37 AM

Couldn't we just say, "Hey, Mexico. There was a mistake. Not ALL Texans are US citizens -- here ya go!" and hand them Perry et al.?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:45 AM

If the Irish and Argentinians can hold a territorial grudge/aspiration for several hundred years (and indeed the present controllers of Israel for thousands), how about some descendants of Santa Ana declaring a legal claim to Texas, supported by a bombing campaign (with a slogan like "Shock and Awe")?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:09 AM

This is just a way for "The Haircut" aka Perry - to paint himself as a regional guy who's all for states rights. He's going to be running against Kay Bailey Hutchins for Gov in the next election and he's bound to paint her as someone who's tied into big Government from Washington.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:10 AM

By the way - if we DO leave the Union we're taking Collings guitars with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:14 AM

Perhaps its natural that a large place breeds oversize idiots but Texas truly has produced some winners.

Like Billie Sol Estes..............

There is no doubt that Billie Sol was a genius of the economic scam. From an early age he had the ability to parlay nothing into small fortunes using truths blended into a background of smoke and mirrors. He reached the pinnacle of success when he scammed the Feds for non-existent fertilizer tanks filled with non-existent anhydrous ammonia. He once said that when you get deeply in debt to someone, you lose a creditor and gain a partner. But deep down Billie had that streak of idiocy running through him and it came out in strange ways.

In 1956 he supported Adlai Stevenson for President and went to a banker to finance his personal campaign idea. Billie wanted to buy thousands of parakeets and train them to say "I like Adlai" in unison as they flew over major cities. The banker tried to explain this was an impossible task on several levels but Billie Sol would hear none of it. Angered, he left the bank, loudly accusing the banker of being anti-Stevenson.

I think its something in the air......or maybe the water.........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:27 PM

Surely if Collings become Mexican they will be cheaper?

For God's sake, GO!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:46 PM

The parakeet idea was absolutely brilliant. Had they gotten the financing and gone ahead with it, Adlai Stevenson would have been elected, history would have been changed radically, and Spaw would have spent his prime years cleaning toilets in Schenectady instead of embarrassing people in Ohio.

Billy Sol Estes was an unsung genius of his time. He was almost as great as William Shatner, and that's not easy.

As for Texas, I suggest they amalgamate into a union with North Korea and tell the rest of the world to go to hell! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: GUEST,emily S
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:57 PM

Hey, hey! There are millions of liberal folks here in Texas so please don't try so hard to get rid of us. My democratic Senate District has more people in it than the state of Wyoming. We're working down here to change attitudes and to turn the state blue. We need help not the boot! Then again, Mexican priced Collings guitars - yeah, it just might be worth the boot.

Personally, I can't wait for the rapture to happen, leaving those of us "left behind" to help heal the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:19 PM

Another protester, 38-year-old Melva Fried, said the forced ouster of General Motors Corp. CEO Rick Wagoner was the last straw for her -- a symbol the federal government was moving toward socialism.

"When a president can fire the head of a company, that's too much," she said, holding a sign that read "Stop Rewarding Failure."

How ironic...do you think she even gets her own point?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:27 PM

It doesn't seem to me that any of them understand their own points. They're protesting high taxes, and at the same time, they're protesting a president who is cutting their taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: fumblefingers
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:35 PM

If we leave the union, we may have to raise the price of natural gas and refined petroleum products that we currently sell to the yankees.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Goose Gander
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:43 PM

Everyone in this country associates secession with the South (for some obvious reasons), but that's not the whole story . . .

New England Secession Tradition part one

New England Secession Tradition part two

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

What percentage of our natural gas and refined petroleum products come from Texas these days?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:02 PM

What are the best secession tunes?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:23 PM

We're working down here to change attitudes and to turn the state blue.

Meanwhile, I'm blue about how red Texas is. . .

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:26 PM

For those who remember the Johnson administration, there was a standing joke of the time that went: "Did you hear they shortened the name of Texas to "Tex?" The listener answers, "No. Why would they do that?" The response is "Because the AS_ is in Washington."

By the way, if Texas secedes, does that mean the spring break parties will get wilder down at South Padre Island?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:45 PM

Red Texas -- like Red China and Red Russia. Commies! Texas Commies! Liberal Hippie Atheist Commie Reds!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: pdq
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 05:31 PM

By the way, if Texas secedes, does that mean the spring break parties will get wilder down at South Padre Island?

Only if they move them to hurricane season.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Goose Gander
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 05:45 PM

The sky is falling!

My favorite part: "Talk of secession is an attack on our country. It can be nothing else. It is the ultimate anti-American statement," Dunnam said at a news conference.

Ummm . . . except that this country was founded upon an act of secession. The American 'Revolution' wasn't really anything like the French Revolution, or the Boshevik Revolution. It did not overturn the existing order, it did not change fundamental social and economic relations.

Frankly, I would not care if Texas left the Union. It's practically another country as it stands, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 05:52 PM

Since the Constitution of the State of Texas recognizes the Constitution of the United States as supreme, no secession is possible:

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS

Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Goose Gander
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:01 PM

"Texas is a free and independent State,"

That part is clear enough.

". . . subject only to the Constitution of the United States,"

OK, I understand that part, too.

". . . and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States."

As I understand it (being no constitutional scholar or lawyer), this means that Texas's status as one of the United States is contingent upon the maintenence of a division of powers between state and federal government. I read nothing here that denies Texans the right to secede.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:27 PM

Whaddya talkin' about, Rapaire? Secession is ALWAYS possible. You sayin' I can't walk out of the room just cos there's some damn piece of paper that SAYS I can't and someone who says that damn piece of paper rules over ME??? Huh? Guess again, buddy. I can, and so can Texas. All it takes is the will to say, "Screw yer damn piece of paper! Times have changed. I've leavin'!"

That's what George Washington did. That's what Jefferson Davis did. That's what Stonewall Jackson did. All it takes is the will to do it, and the determination to fight 'em if they try to stop you.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:44 PM

Yeah, LH. Al it takes is the will... last testament too.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:49 PM

Well, Chongo ol' buddy, you know pieces of paper can be backed up with bars of steel.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:58 PM

True. It all depends on who runs the show after the dust clears, doesn't it? Most of the stuff the Nazis did was technically legal, according to their laws at the time. That don't mean it was right. We've always got people with different opinions about what is "right" and what ain't.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:27 PM

Chongo, for example, tells me Little Hawk has exercised his "right" to secede from the Mudcat.

But, it's not actual, see. Somebody has to pop in and keep Chongo shooting off his yap.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:40 PM

I'm reminded of the slogan I once saw on a hat:

"If God wanted Texans to ski, he would have made bullshit white"

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:07 PM

Yo, Texas...

First of all, don't let thed door hit you on the way out and secondly...

...there are a few others we wouldn't miss so take 'um with ya, Big Guy...

But here's the catch...

When ya'll figure out that ya'll gettin' more federal tax doallars back then what ya'll put in then don't come cryin' back to yer Sugar Daddy 'cause he ain't gonna answer the door...

Bye-de-bye...

B~

p.s. Maybe you could hook back up with Mexico...

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:33 AM

"(Most experts suggest the notion that Texas can legally secede is mistaken, but the state does have the right to split into five states, offering the prospect of 10 U.S. senators, math that would send cold shivers down any Democratic back.)"


Simple math

48 + 8 = 56


from http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891829,00.html?cnn=yes

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:42 PM

"Simple math

48 + 8 = 56"

Please 'splane Loosy!

If Texas exercise its form of mitosis, it seems to me that the equation would be 49 (remaining states + 5 (new Texican states) = 54.


Some years ago, someone wrote an article about splitting California into two, dividing north from south at Bakersfield. Or dividing into three; north coast, south, and mountain interior along the Sierras.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:48 PM

Texas is a state with two senators.

If they split into 5 states total, that would be 8 ADDITIONAL senators.

There would be 54 states, for 108 senators- and it would take 55 to control the Senate ( the VP decides ties)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

Ah, so!

You jumped directly to the answer without showing the intermediate work steps. That was a no-no in my math classes. ;>D

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:54 PM

Well, I learned calculus using infinitesimals, too...


The point is that IF Texas were to form 5 states, the Republicans would again control the Senate. Given Obama's present (lack of) efforts at bipartisanship, that might not be such a bad thing- for BOTH sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:24 PM

The problem with spliting states is that other states might figure out a way to do it too and purdy soon there would be chaos at the flag making factory...

No, I'd rather just see Texas join up with Mexico or become it's own country... Don't much matter to me which one...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 07:05 PM

Texas is the only state that has that written into the constitution, it has to do with having been an independent nation for 10 years. Since back when it split off from Mexico, it's something that has been a possibility but is very unlikely it would ever happen. What would be the point?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 07:17 PM

Well, Maggie, to get back a Senate majority for Repubs??? That would go along way toward keeping the the "Reagan Revolution" going for a few more years until it completely destroys the country... If it hasn't allready... The jury is still out on whether or not we will survive 3 decades of trickle down Reaganonmics...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:06 PM

SRS - There are reasons other than simply trying to (gasp!) give the Republicans a Senate majority. Perhaps, a large contingent of Texans, say the So'wstrn part, did not approve of the direction of the state as a whole. Might even be the Blue portion of the state giving Dems an advantage.

West Virginia split from Virginia because WV-ans did not wish to be part of the Confederate States.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Secession
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:57 AM

Well, if you can't protest the anti-Americanism of them politicians in Washington by advocating treason, you probably aren't intellectually flexible enough to be governor of Texas.

While we're all here let's look at the paperwork. The United States of America and the Republic of Texas united in 1845 by Texas becoming a U.S. state. The Ordinance of Annexation of 4 July 1845 doesn't have anything to say about secession. It does say that Texas can divide itself into a State of Texas plus four other states if the other states can meet the US requirements for statehood.

Fast forward to 1861, and Texas attempted to leave the US by passing An Ordinance:To dissolve the union between the State of Texas and the other Stat s, united under the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America" on 1 February 1861. This ordinance did not claim any right of succession; all it did was repeal the Ordinance of Annexation of 4 July 1845.

After the end of the U.S. Civil War An Ordinance, Declaring the Ordinance of Secession Null and Void was passed on 15 March 2006, which (you guessed it) repealed the Ordinance of Secession of 1 February 1861. This ordinance is specific – "the right heretofore claimed by the State of Texas to secede from the Union, is hereby distinctly renounced."
- Phil(from Deep in the Heart of Texas)