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BS: Arab views
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Subject: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 22 Apr 09 - 04:35 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQERHieZHcg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hpc_-5WsXI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VtwOaVx2J4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad8ETI9B8rw&feature=related |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: bobad Date: 22 Apr 09 - 04:56 PM Nice neighbours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: artbrooks Date: 22 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM 2, 4 and 5 years old, Good current events information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Apr 09 - 07:37 PM Garbage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Amos Date: 22 Apr 09 - 08:45 PM Jaysus, Bruce. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 09 - 10:41 PM More Arabs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD-zFbu-OQ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_cEiHJ1t64&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trfxfl45ono&feature=related |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 09 - 10:53 PM More from one of the Arabs in the last link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emq94B17zXo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 09 - 10:58 PM The interviewer in that last video is an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Teribus Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:40 AM Note from the links supplied by BB that at no time is any differentiation made between Jews (Palestinian, Arab or otherwise) and Zionists - They are all marked down for destruction in the "Holy War" irrespective. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:55 AM And it should also be noted that the person who started this thread makes no differentiation between Arabs who believe what is in those videos and those who don't, the title of the thread being "Arab views" rather than "the views of some Arabs". If someone started a thread with the title "Jewish views" and they posted several of the many videos that can be found showing Jews expressing hatred or other forms of racism against Arabs, the person who started the thread would call the person who posted them an Anti-Semite. Which I guess would make the person who started this thread an Anti-Arab. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Darowyn Date: 23 Apr 09 - 03:59 AM Just to be pedantic, would not an anti semite hate both Jews and Arabs? I understand that both peoples are supposedly descended from Noah's son Shem. Black Africans are Hamitic- descendents of Ham. Japhet seems to have been less easy to categorise, since he must have given rise to Mediterranean, Nordic, Chinese, Native American peoples, and all the rest. I understand that the term anti-semitic has become applied purely to sentiments directed against Jewish people- but it's not actually correct, and I feel that realising that fact puts the mutual dislike of the two middle eastern groups into perspective. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:30 AM Anti-Semitism is a phrase that was coined by someone who was himself an anti-Semite, according to his definition of the term (someone who is anti-Jew). He coined it to use as the name of a movement he was starting. So its history has always been in reference specifically to Jews. My guess is that he used the term "Semite", even though it is inaccurate to use that term to only refer to Jews, because he was probably a very ignorant person who needed an impressive and official sounding term in an effort to help make his movement look more legitimate than it deserved. The term has been rendered almost meaningless by people applying it to those who are not anti-Semites, but who are critical of the government of Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:42 AM Carol, you have developed a noticeably powerful command of these issues. Your coolness and patience under pressure is to your credit. BB, Why did you post those links? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 05:32 AM Anyone can trawl Youtube and find examples of racism in any community. It doesn't prove anything. Any more than these links prove anything about Jews. A racist Israeli And here's some "very intelligent" Americans coming out in support of the attacks on Gaza. "Burning out the cancer" I decided to ignore the many videos showing unprovoked aggression by settlers against palestinians. But then I'm not trying to prove a point either way. BB - you seem to be becoming more and more obsessed with the idea of wanting to prove that the nations of the world, spearheaded by arabs, are out to destroy jews. Your political tinnitus is obscuring from your mind any argument or point of view that conflicts with yours. If people don't see what you are trying to make them see, then the only possible explanation for it is that it is because Israel is a jewish country and that fact is clouding their vision because they obviously harbour anti semitic feelings. I would feel sad for you, that you would spend the rest of your life being so convinced that everyone wants to destroy you, and that you must be ready to defend yourself at all times, and I would feel sorry that you will end your days so full of denial, anger and fear, but for the fact that those feelings inspire you to look at what happened in Gaza earlier this year as right and just. I sense cracks in your certainty as I don't think anyone could ever witness the bloodbath there and genuinely feel that it was in anyway justified. I see your original post on this thread as the biggest sign of that, as you haven't said anything, and those videos are so completely unsatisfactory as evidence of the blanket assertion contained in the thread title. As I said, I would have sympathy, but that style of thinking is used to justify aggression against peaceful people. You wonder why there aren't threads like this about Burma, Zimbabwe etc. I'll tell you why - because we all agree that those regimes are wrong. There is noone sticking up for those regimes brutality as you are sticking up for the brutality of Israel. Likewise, the discussion about palestinian violence against israelis is a short one because it is universally condemned by everyone on this forum. There are those who say they understand it, but i don't know of any who condone it. The only condoning of brutality that I read here is the condoning of Israels brutality against palestinians. "... see ... all arabs are racist ... here's proof ... a video in another language with subtitles ... what else do you need? ..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Wolfgang Date: 23 Apr 09 - 06:28 AM "The views of some Arabs"??? How careless to correctly spot one "the" and to overlook the sinister implications of the other "the". No, no, the "the" implies that the views we have seen are the only views or all of the views they have, so the really correct expression is "Some views of some Arabs". Or is it? Perhaps they (or some of them?) have changed their (or some of their?) views meanwhile to something more or less nasty, so we (some of us?) should better say "Some views of some Arabs at some time" Wolfgang (sometimes) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:52 AM I have noticed that on this thread, as on the "Israel moves in" thread, there are numerous videos in arabic that have been used to evidence claims of arab hatred of jews. I noted that with the exception of one or two they all came from MEMRI. MEMRI is an organization set up by an Israeli in the late 1990's to provide a translation service to the english speaking world so that we might benefit from knowing what arabs are really saying. However, it would seem that they are heavily criticized for being both unreliable and inaccurate. There are plenty of links on this wiki page MEMRI |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:53 AM To give you an example of how easy it can be to mislead people using "video evidence", I have provided these links. proof that Paco can't play the same proof ... that he can ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Amos Date: 23 Apr 09 - 09:18 AM On the rise of Moderate Muslimism. NYT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: John Hardly Date: 23 Apr 09 - 10:53 AM "muslimism"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:06 AM Amos I liked your link. This bit in particular made me laugh out loud! "One scholar at the Notre Dame conference, who uses the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for safety, has raised eyebrows and hackles by suggesting that the "houri" promised to martyrs when they reach Heaven doesn't actually mean "virgin" after all. He argues that instead it means "grapes," and since conceptions of paradise involved bounteous fruit, that might make sense. But suicide bombers presumably would be in for a disappointment if they reached the pearly gates and were presented 72 grapes." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Amos Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:08 AM That was funny, but it was a serious job of scholarship when it first came out a number of years back. Aramaic-era Arabic is apparently a bit obscure... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,lox Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:15 AM I fully appreciate the point Amos, I just wanted to share my enjoyment of the funny side. ... but while I'm on the subject, do you mean north Aramaic-era or south Aramaic-era? ... ... don't worry ... I'll get my coat ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:30 AM The links in the opening post are there to support the basic thesis of the thread originator that the Palestinians deserve to be punished for anything any Arab has done anywhere in the world at any time in history, and for that reason, they deserve whatever treatment the government of Israel chooses to subject them to. This is, of course, with the exception of the Arab Jews, whose existence the thread originator doesn't even acknowledge. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Amos Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:40 AM It was actually under the safety of Muslim rule that Jewish civilization came back from extreme oppression imposed by Roman and Christian busybodies, and were able, among other things, to codify the Babylonian standards which eventually became the guiding principles of rabbinical Jews world-wide. The Muslims were much more tolerant of Jews than the Christians had been in the previous era. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: Donuel Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:47 AM No, I haven't opened a link here or even read this entire thread but I will respond to what Arabs want. I would be best if I had the abilities of the ad man in the movie What Women Want , but I am afraid that Mel Gibson is somewhat of an antisemite misoginist that wouldn't advance much illumination ;'/ Most of all I think the majority of Arabs would like to be left alone and enjoy some measure of prosperity and community satisfaction. The radical fringe that might be 20% or more of Arabs have resigned themselves to follow an ideology that calls for the overthrow of all nation states and a total surrender of all religions to turn to Allah WHICH IS SO INSANE on its face, that few ever mention the grand goal directly and prefer to change the subject to some violent short term goal that gets them more angry and hopped up than a Alabama Redneck listening to Rush Limbaugh. The less than 1% of Arabs who command immense wealth just want a status quo and dance upon the razor edge of Religious extremism on one side and its western infidel customers on the other. It is a political balancing act familiar to any despotical King. In short they want what you want but with a lot of ancient baggage like the near slavery of women and their own version of religious leader hypocrits that make our TV evangelists and Jim Jones types look tame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:49 AM That doesn't matter. If one Arab ever in the history of Arabs ever did anything that the thread originator doesn't like, that means that all Arabs everywhere deserve to be punished. For some reason, the thread originator applies this standard to Arabs, but not to Christians or Germans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:50 AM My last post was in reference to the one immediately following my second to last post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: beardedbruce Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:56 AM CarolC, 1. Let us change the name of the thread to Arab Government Views- see who is talking. 2. "If one Arab ever in the history of Arabs ever did anything that the thread originator doesn't like, that means that all Arabs everywhere deserve to be punished." OK, then I will state just as accurately that 'If one Jew ever in the history of Jews ever did anything that CarolC doesn't like, that means that all Jews everywhere deserve to be punished." YOU DO NOT SPEAK for me any more than I speak for you. Got it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:57 AM Does the term they want what you want as used above refer to the extremist Arabs, or does it refer to all Arabs? And does the term Arab used in that instance refer to all Arabs, including the Christian and Jewish ones, or just the Muslim Arabs? Because that's where the term Arab gets a little sticky. The term Arab refers to anyone who is a native Arabic speaker. But people who don't tend to see Arabs as human beings seem to think that the term "Arab" is entirely interchangeable with the term "Muslim". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:03 PM I would suggest that in order to avoid being racist in this instance, it would be necessary to use the phrase, some Arab government views since there are certainly Arab governments that do not share the views that are found in the videos in the opening post. The Jordanian government, for instance. I don't see any videos in the opening post that demonstrate racism towards Jews on the part of the government of Jordan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:06 PM Please show me where I have ever used the term "Jew" to refer to what the government of Israel is doing to the Palestinians. If no such usage can be found than it is not correct to try say that I think all Jews should be punished for what only some Jews are doing. It is however correct for me to make that assertion about the opening poster in regards to Arabs, since that person has consistently used the actions of some Arabs to justify the punishment of the Palestinians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: beardedbruce Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM It is correct for me to make that assertion about CarolC in regards to Jews, since that person has consistently used the actions of some Jews to justify the punishment of the Israelis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: artbrooks Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:15 PM No, much as I hate to disagree, what CarolC does is use the actions of a very few Israelis to support the idea of collective punishment of all Israelis, by essentially abolishing their country through submerging it in a merged Greater Palestine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:31 PM No, I have never used the actions of some Jews to support the punishment of the Israelis. I have only used the actions of the government of a country to justify not giving that government US taxpayer money to support its subjugation and genocide of the populations of other countries. I have also never suggested that Israel be abolished through submerging it in a merged greater Palestine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:31 PM Nice try, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arab views From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:52 PM Folks - take off the blinders of bias - educate yourselves to other views.
I refer you to the Middle East Information Center - the entire essay is excellent. http://middleeastinfo.org/library/lewis_antisemitism.html
"Semites and Anti-Semites"
Third paragraph - (divided)
"The Semite, like the Aryan, is a myth, and part of the same mythology.
Both terms -- Semite and Aryan -- originated in the same way, and suffered the same misuse at the same hands. Primarily linguistic, they date from the great development of scientific philology during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, when European scholars made the momentous discovery that the languages of mankind were related to one another and -- formed recognizable families.
"The term Aryan, of Indian origin, was first applied to a group of languages spoken in south Asia, to which Sanskrit and its derivatives belonged, and then extended to a larger group of languages in Europe and Asia, more commonly known as Indo-European.
"Semitic was applied at about the same time to another family of languages including Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and, later, some other languages of the Middle East and North Africa.
"The name of course comes from Shem, one of the three, sons of Noah, from whom, according to the Book of Genesis, the Jews and most of their ancient neighbors were descended. The term Semite in "this sense seems to have appeared in print for the first time in 1781, in a contribution by A. L. von Schlozer to J. G. Eichhorn's Repertoriumfur biblische und morgenlandische Literatur.
Further down note:
"A second characteristic of the anti-Jew as opposed to the pro-Arab is his tendency to harp on Jewish power and influence, which he usually greatly exaggerates, and to complain of Jewish double loyalty. There are about 450,000 Jews in Britain. The anti-Jew proceeds on the assumptions (a) that they are all as rich as Rothschild, as efficient as Marks & Spencer, as clever as Isaiah Berlin, as articulate as Bernard Levin, as resourceful as John Bloom; (b) that they are all working together for Israel; (c) that they are committing some offense in doing so.
"In fact of course the great majority of Jews in Britain, as elsewhere, are as ignorant, inept, and inert as anyone else.
"...inverted anti-Semites ... those who basically accept the anti-Semitic myth of the secret Jewish world power, but see it with respect and admiration rather than with hatred and fear. A classical example is Benjamin Disraeli... Awe for the mysterious power of Jewry has given place to respect for the political and military power of Israel -- but this is not a racial consideration.
"There can be no doubt that one of the most important sources of support for Israel in the period following the fall of Hitler was guilt ....
"Jews are by no means unanimous in their support for Israel.
"Today the phenomenon of Jewish self-hate is found chiefly on the far left, where hostility to Israel provides, or appears to provide, an opportunity of freeing oneself from ancestral and, more immediately, parental bonds....
"All this... has nothing whatever to do with the rights and wrongs of the Arab-Israel dispute. It does however influence and sometimes determine the attitude of ... journalists, politicians, officials, and hence even governments.
Today It is easy to view multiple facets of the world.
Broaden your views - did you know Obama is the first president to attend a seder in the White House? (But this is not good - in in one Jewish view) Israel's leaders are being tried in Norway for war crimes? The brother of the ruler of the UAE was videoed torturing and then running over a man with his SUV?
Sincerely,
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