Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 03:18 PM

Thanks folks - I do keep checking back. Amazing how such a saying is so widespread - our basic poetic nature, I think. It's much more interesting than "It looks like it's going to rain"!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: fat B****rd
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 03:22 PM

I've lived in Lincolnshire, Durham and Fife and never heard the expression. I shall, of course, use it in fututre.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: stallion
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 06:04 PM

I think it was first mooted on a test match special broadcast from old trafford when someone ,maybe bumble (as a player not a pundit) said that the head groundsman would say if there were dark clouds over Bill's mothers house there would be rain at old trafford.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 03:42 AM

It was certainly common in my family (Birmingham) and my wife's (Coventry, Wolverhampton, Buckinghamshire & Scotland) so I suspect wherever it originated it might have been spread by reference on a radio show, possibly ITMA during WW2, unless its provinance was much earlier.

RtS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,many moons ago
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 11:24 PM

my dad would take his weekly bath on late sunday afternoons for his visit to the crown for his mild and bitter infusion.that was in the late fifties in east Herts.when us kids asked where he was going, he would always say he was going to see old Wills mothers. mum would give him the evil eye and off he would go. good job the pubclosed at 10,oclock,

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Merrie
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 07:58 AM

In my family in Worcs. it was Bill's mother's.They used it when the neighbours started arguing! Never heard it in reference to bad weather. I read somewhere that it was originally a reference to a smokey kiln in the potteries known as Old Bill but I can no longer find that reference. Some of my ancestors come from the SW Brum area so I'm assuming they brought the saying with them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 11:29 AM

The Mrs (and her mum before her - both from West Bromwich) says "it's black over Grimleys".

Another saying with reference to Bill (in the Black Country) is "Well, I'll go to the back of Bill's yard", normally said in response to something slighly unbelievable but true.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Joolz
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 12:42 PM

Dunno if this one is still going.... but

My mother and father used the expression "black over Will's mother's" a heck of a lot in the 1950s/60s. They were born and bred (!) in Peterborough (originally Northamptonshire, then Cambridgeshire, now it's own county - the "Soke of Peterborough". Unrelated - maybe - I don't think my father actually knew my mother's name - she was always known as "duck"....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,`Guest - Sue
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 10:41 AM

Also used in Surrey - my Mum (now 89) has always used it since she was a child so probably picked it up from her Mum. It has always been 'Will's mother' in our family. Reigate born and bred.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 03:38 PM

as an hampshire hog   over our wills mothers was used my my mum meaning that it looked as though it was raining hard a short way ago and would probably be here soon

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 09:32 PM

"It's a bit black over Bill's mother's."

According to my husband, a common expression when he lived in Wiltshire (near-ish Swindon) as a child about 30 yrs ago, but not in Surrey or Sussex.

WRT "Well, I'll go to the back of Bill's yard" - Something I've heard more than once in the Sheffield area is "Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs!" - also as an expression of surprise/amazement.

Would love to know the derivation of that one; think I'll start a new thread...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Lord Suggs
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 12:35 PM

My Grandad 92yrs is a born and bred Man of Kent (as opposed to a Kentish Man) he and friends down the British Legion use the phrase " Its black over Wilfs Mothers" when I asked many years ago who Wilfs mother was he said its just a direction, instead of saying out at sea, over the woods, Canterbury way etc you just used Wilfs Mothers and pointed at the clouds/rain/crap weather!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 12:48 PM

Here in Norfolk it's a very common remark. "Cor, thass roit black ooover Will's mother's, en't it bor?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 12:19 PM

I come from Scotland an my wife is from Durham but neither of has ever heard anything remotely like this phrase. I'm intrigued to learn there is a different way of pronouncing "mother" and "brother".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Frances Pritchett, Lower Willingdon, Eastbo
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 03:34 PM

Both my Grandmother and my Mum used the phrase It''s black over Wills's mothers' and I still use it today - I am 68 so it has been going for a long time but I am not sure of its origin. Who, I would like to know, was Will's mother?!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 03:32 PM

I used to work with a lad from Manchester and he used this "Black over Bill's Mother's" phrase regularly.
I love these local quirky sayings.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Guest John
Date: 24 May 14 - 05:40 AM

Was used on Sussex/Surrey borders by my parents in 1940s.

Seems wide spread if not used much anymore

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 14 - 05:18 AM

The West Croydon version I grew up with (1945 0nwards ) was

"Looking black over Will's Mums".

I still use this today.

Much more frequently of late ..what with the weather this year.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST,Mike B
Date: 27 May 14 - 05:54 AM

Well, I'll goo ta Brierley'ill. ood evera thunk that "Looking Black over Bill's Mother's" cuda staired up such a commotion?
Any road up, gotta goo an' see a mon abart a dog now, so I'll say Tarraa !         All common Black Country sayings.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 05:26 AM

Would it have come from a music hall song? I found this rhyme that seems to suggest it may have-
Hurricane Bill, that 'twas its name, It brewed up dark and stormy,
And as he watched the weather charts It put the wind up Normy.
'Tie down your kids' in vain he cried, But not because of weather,
They were getting on his nerves, Bikes racing hell for leather.
'Advise your wives' he shouted out, To wear something less floating,
The wind will catch her fair and square, And flight times we'll be quoting.'
'Take down your flags and lower your masts, Whatever be their colour.
Turn off your fairy lights and lamps, Sure life will be much duller.'
'For we must ride this great storm out, And all come through the weather,
'Cause when you camp at Lower Treave, We're all in it together!'
'But wait' cried Norm, 'the chart is wrong, This weather's for another,
This hurricane won't come to us, It's going to Bill's Mother!'

Hence the saying 'It's looking black over Bill's Mother's!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Dark over Bill's mothers
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 03:46 AM

I say, its looking a bit black over Wil1`s mothers. I got it from my Grandad born 1900,Cobham, Surrey