BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame

Subject: BS: Obama's Speech at Notre Dame
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:11 PM

After hearing the address, I'm beginning to wonder if Amos might have been almost, somewhat, kind of, nearly right about Barack Obama all along.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:16 PM

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:34 PM

Well, for some reason some of the thread title didn't all make it through security. It was intended to read - "Obama's Address at Notre Dame" - sorry.

         I was particularly impressed that somebody (Obama) finally gave President Eisenhower the acknowledgement he has always been due for his efforts in the early Civil Rights struggle. Harry Truman and Ike both tried to promote equal rights. It's always seemed to me that Eisenhower's efforts have been largely ignored over the years.

         Whether you like him or not, I don't see how anyone can say that President Obama doesn't have a really big heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: pdq
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:51 PM

Thank you, Rigs.

At one time I tried to point out that the 1957 Civil Rights Act was more comprehensive than the 1964 version, but nobody responded.

The man who shot down the 1957 Civil Rights Act was Lyndon Johnson. The same jerk tried to claimed the 1964 Civil Rights Act as his own, a tribute to John F. kennedy.

Eisenhower did what was right because it was right, not because it was politically expediant. Ike was a great man and great president.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: Beer
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:26 PM

And so will be Obama.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:31 PM

Thanks, Rig. I hope you are right. I think you are.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama'
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:47 PM

pdq - I agree. To date, I would say Eisenhower was the best president of my lifetime, though the only thing I remember about Harry Truman was getting him mixed up with Gabreal Heatter on the radio.

                But I would agree with Amos. Obama is getting off to a very good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:43 AM

It really was a wonderful speech, showing respect for both sides of the debate of many issues. Here's a link:
http://commencement.nd.edu/commencement-weekend/commencement-videos-recorded/commencement-address/

This was a remarkable presentation. Please take the time to listen to it. I think he was courageous - and wise - to face the abortion issue head-on with a very reasonable explanation of his position, again showing respect for those on both sides of the issue.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Alice
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:48 AM

I watched it live today.
I liked it.
When he talked about Eisenhower and the priest who took the civil rights group fishing in order to reach common ground, it brought a tear to my eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Bobert
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:14 AM

One thing that Obama can't be accused of is lacking courage... But, like Amos and others, this is something that many of us have seen in him going back early in his campaign...

Glad to finally get you on board, Rigs...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:34 AM

I was very nervous about Obama, and sometimes I still get the jitters when other people try to push him into doing things that would be hurtful to the country. So far, however, he has charted a very thoughtful course. And Joe's right, it took a lot of balls to go to Notre Dame and take on the subject of abortion in front of the entire university and world wide television cameras.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:56 AM

ND has given honorary doctorates to many of the Presidents, and more have visited the campus. I remember waiting and waiting and waiting to get into the stadium for a football game with Navy because Bush I was being seated.

Navy lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:57 AM

"The University is where the Church does its thinking." -- Fr. Ted Hesberg, former President of Notre Dame.

"If the Vatican insists upon licensing theologians who teach in Catholic schools, Notre Dame will institute an all-lay Board of Trustees and list itself as 'being in the Catholic tradition' instead of being a Catholic university.
                         -- Same dude. The Vatican backed down.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:45 PM

I am old enough to remember Truman & Eisenhower also. By the time I was an adult, my leanings were Democratic. I voted for JFK and LBJ and actually worked to elect Carter and Clinton.
   I at least respected most of them...leaving out a couple of obvious ones. I have listened to many, many speeches.....and all I can say is that I never thought I would live to hear any president, until now, move me with both eloquence and sincerity... and give me hope that someone at the top was genuinely trying, caring and thinking.

   I was, flatly, moved by this man making so much effort to reconcile and inspire people from all sides. Time will tell how well his efforts succeed, and there are SO many obstacles in today's society to getting agreement on certain issues.

There are many who can craft a good speech....but few who can deliver one in such a way as to make even doubters believe that THEY believe what they say.

   Am I too optimistic and taken? Maybe...but it sure is nice to have some optimism for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: robomatic
Date: 18 May 09 - 09:42 PM

I respect Notre Dame's courage in making the invitation, and in keeping it once made. I was kind of hoping to hear more about it in the regular news channels and did not in fact see or hear of it so I'll investigate Joe's link.

My father taught at a Jesuit institution for many years and I had occasions to meet some of the priests who were educators there (like when they came to my Bar-Mitzvah). In this era it was not unknown for Catholic men of the cloth to run for office. We supported Father Drinan, who was eventually directed to retire from politics by The Church.

I noticed (of course) that in the series "West Wing" the President was Catholic and his religion was presented as a major personal motivation. It made a very good impression on me.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 09 - 12:27 AM

robo, Joe's 'link'is to the entire commencement speech at Notre Dame. It is gripping. I can't properly express how proud I am that we elected a thinking, insightful, articulate person.

That graduating class will never forget their commencement speaker and I fully expect an unquenchable spark has been lit in many of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:18 PM

Sister Joan Chittister is the former prioress of the Benedictine Sisters of Erie, Pennsylvania. She's a prolific author, and she's known for her wisdom. Here's what she has to say about the Obama speech at Notre Dame:
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/response-notre-dame-speech-sister-joan-chittister

I'm waiting to hear the talk-show response to Obama's speech. I'm sure they'll find a way to twist it into something wicked.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:35 PM

Thanks, Joe, for the pointer to that thoughtful commentary on what was really another world-class address.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:48 PM

"I'm waiting to hear the talk-show response to Obama's speech. I'm sure they'll find a way to twist it into something wicked."


                  Hannity is already on it. I saw him last night showing clips of the speech before making off-hand comments. I don't recall what he said, but it probably got the attention of somebody.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:35 PM

I just watched it. That was a phenomenal speech! Again and again Mr Obama appeals to the better angels in people and the voice of reason, mutual respect, and common purpose. Am I impressed? You bet I am. If we had a leader like this in Canada right now it would put the whole country in the best mood it's been in in quite a few decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:35 PM

Hear, hear. It was O'bama at his fighting Irish best.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:26 PM

One thing Obama discussed in his speech that is not as widely known as it should be: The Catholic Church in Chicago was his primary employer/sponsor as a young community organizer on the south side of Chicago.

There's an awful lot about the Roman Catholic Church that I dislike ~ enough to have made me an ex-Catholic ~ but there are always people of faith, of every faith, who exemplify the highest of human ideals.

Within the Catholic Church, there has long been a smallish subculture (e.g., Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker movement) more committed to social justice than to ideology and dogma. This community within the Church flourished in Chicago during the tenure of the late Cardinal Bernardin, and indeed had much to do with the growth and development of the young-adult Obama. We should all be thankful.

Some people are primarily concerned with doing good, and others are mostly interested in telling the rest of us what's right and wrong. Seems to me that those two approaches are pretty much mutually exclusive.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:42 PM

Right on, Poppa Gator.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:35 PM

E.J. Dionne (click) has an excellent article about the Obama Notre Dame address. I've been telling people that Obama's Notre Dame speech made me proud to be a Catholic and proud to be an American, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Dionne helps make it clear. Here are some excerpts from his column:

Obama's opponents seek to reignite the culture wars. He doesn't. They would reduce religious faith to a narrow set of issues. He refused to join them. They often see theological arguments as leading to certainty. He opted for humility.
* * *
Yet his argument drew on very old ideas, notably original sin and the common good. Obama was as explicit in talking about his faith as George W. Bush ever was about his own but with distinctly different inflections and conclusions.
The former president often emphasized the comfort and certainty he drew from his religious beliefs. Obama said that "the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt."
"This doubt should not push away our faith," Obama preached. "But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, cause us to be wary of too much self-righteousness." It was a quietly pointed response to his critics.

Obama made it clear that he understands what it is to be what I call a "mainstream Catholic," a Catholic who accepts the teachings and reforms of the Second Vatican Council. The neoconservative Catholics, just like evangelical Christians, are the ones who shout the loudest and get the most attention, but I don't think they're really the mainstream of Christianity that they think they are. Real Christians and real Catholics have a deep, open-minded, gospel-rooted spirituality and a strong concern for social justice.

Since the 1960's, there has been a cleansing and renewal of the Catholic and mainline Protestant churches. Society no longer has a social requirement that people attend church; so the people who don't want to be in church, don't go any more. What's left are people who take their faith very seriously. The Protestant churches have divided into "mainline" and "evangelical" denominations, and the evangelicals tend to be conservative.

Many conservative Catholics have left for the evangelical churches, but many others have formed a strong and vocal conservative minority within the Catholic Church. They have been very successful in recruiting new priests and nuns and religious orders, to the point where I have a hard time trusting a priest, nun, or religious order that's under forty years old. Many of the most vocal neoconservative Catholics are recent converts from evangelical churches, and there are a number of formerly Protestant radio evangelists now on the Catholic radio networks and EWTN television (the neocons spend a lot of money on media, not much on feeding the poor). During his lengthy reign, Pope John Paul II appointed many neoconservative bishops, so most bishops are to the right of older priests and nuns. Benedict XVI is not as conservative as JPII, so there is now somewhat less Vatican support for American neoconservative Catholics. As many of you know, I was a student in a Catholic seminary for eight years, and I associate with a lot of priest and nuns. I've even applied to become an associate member of the Sisters of Mercy. Most of the priests and nuns I know were thrilled when Obama was elected President. - I bet that will be a surprise to some of you. I had to make a special trip to Sacramento in January to set up a television for some 80-yr-old nuns, because they wanted to be able to watch the inauguration on high-definition television.

There was a strong American Catholic protest against Notre Dame's invitation to Obama to give the 2009 commencement address. 70 of the 300 U.S. Catholic bishops spoke out against the invitation, and there were protests and daily FoxNews articles and letter-writing campaigns. It sounded like all of Catholicism was outraged by the thought of Obama speaking at a Catholic university, but the older priests and nuns and religious orders quietly but firmly supported the invitation. Interestingly, despite all the rhetoric from right-wing American Catholics against Obama, the Pope's office hasn't said a word against him, and has been very complimentary on many occasions.

So then Obama gave his speech, which was even better than I hoped for, and I can't begin to tell you how thrilled I am about it. His speech gave voice to us quiet Christians, the ones who work in the soup kitchens and promote pacifism and fight the death penalty - and believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ that insist on the primacy of love and justice over self-righteousness.

There's one more thing that was implied in Obama's speech. Since John F. Kennedy, Catholic Democrats have said that they would not allow their faith to affect their performance of their duties in government, implying that they would be Catholic on Sunday morning and secular the rest of the week. John Kerry, a Catholic Democrat, said more-or-less the same thing when he ran for President in 2004. That's always bothered me, because I think that my faith is an integral part of who I am, not something that I can leave behind when I leave church on Sunday morning. My faith is a major part of what motivates me to serve the poor and oppose war and the death penalty - and, yes, to oppose abortion although I don't think it should be outlawed. My faith also motivates me to be open to the beliefs and ideas of others. President Obama made it clear that there is room in the political process for people of faith, and I'm very happy about that. Indeed, he claims to have a faith perspective that is very similar to mine.

I'm very proud of our President, and I'm proud of Notre Dame for inviting him and upholding the true ideal of a Catholic university - promoting open-minded, critical thinking.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:46 PM

Hear, hear, Joe.

I'd like to add this quote from the very ending of Dionne's article. I hope he's correct:

By facing their arguments head-on and by demonstrating his attentiveness to Catholic concerns, Obama strengthened moderate and liberal forces inside the church itself. He also struck a forceful blow against those who would keep the nation mired in culture-war politics without end. Obama's opponents on the Catholic right placed a large bet on his Notre Dame visit. And they lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Address at Notre Dame
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:53 PM

Hopefully this speech will end the squabble over abortion, we have many more important things to worry about.