Museum of British Folklore - discuss

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Apr 14 - 03:14 PM

Refresh for St. George's Day...

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM

One more link... 21st Century Folk Culture is the Museum's new online project - more of a longform blog. (I mispoke earlier: the Museum's own site has "News" and "Events and Exhibits", but not a blog, per se.)

I'll quit now, I promise!

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 01:01 PM

And for those who want the basics before reading the thread and clicking links: the museum does not have a physical home yet, but Simon and others are making the push to make it happen. In the meantime, exhibits have been shown at other venues.

~ B in LB

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 12:51 PM

And, of course the Museum has a website now, with blog and whatnot, www.museumofbritishfolklore.com/, and a Facebook page, www.facebook.com/themuseumofbritishfolklore.

~ B in LB

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 12:44 PM

Not sure why there's not a link at the SCC site, but here's a link from the Nest Collective for the 2014 Song Collectors Collective Conference, where Simon Costin of the Museum of British Folklore will speak.

~ B in LB

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 12:40 PM

5 years later...

Here's a really good promotional video for the project: Museum of British Folklore, and a related article with pictures: Film: Tom Chick's amazing film to promote the Museum of British Folklore!.

It popped up on my Facebook feed via the Song Collectors Collective, who note that "Simon Costin will be talking at the Song Collectors Conference about his Museum of British Folklore". Here's a link for the 2013 Song Collectors Collective Conference.

~ Becky in Long Beach, Calif.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 10:10 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:34 AM

"What about housing it in the Millenium Dome and incorporating the artefacts from Cecil Sharp House in it plus contributions from other parties" - it's one use for that white elephant I suppose but would they be safe there, bearing in mind the attempted theft of the replica crown jewels?

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:06 AM

What about housing it in the Millenium Dome and incorparating the artefacts from Cecil Sharp House in it plus contributions from other parties

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,jock
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 04:07 PM

The Great North Museum i.e. The Great North of England Museum ... so much for British.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 05:55 AM

the erstwhile Hancock Museum in Newcastle-upon-Tyne (presently being reinvented as The Great North Museum, swallowing many fine smaller museums in the process) which contained the unwrapped 2,500-year-old mummy of Irt-Irw, who is said to set off intruder alarms and has inspired various ghost hunts.

Visited the Great North Museum yesterday - a rainy Saturday afternoon in Canny Newcastle. This is the £26 million makeover that replaces both the old Hancock Museum and the Museum of Antiquities, supposedly bringing it all together one roof but only managing to dumb it all down to such an extent one is left with nothing but an overwhelming sense of irretrievable loss - gone is the coffee machine at the foot of the stairs where one might watch lowering piranhas in vast dark aquaria whilst slurping a scalding beverage or two.

Never quite the Pitt Rivers or the Natural History Museum, the Hancock was nevertheless a place of inspirational clutter, with seemingly endless galleries of pinned months, butterflies, beetles, tribal masks, Egyptian coffins, human skeletons, and more threadbare Victorian taxidermy than you shake a stick at - one chimpanzee was particularly disturbing, looking like something Dr. Frankenstein had stitched together on his lunch-break. Thing is, some of this Threadbare Taxidermy remains, selected specimens of Spheniscidae looking particularly forlorn in the context of these vast wide open spaces favouring interactive displays rather than actual exhibits.

It was good to see the Roman collections again, particularly the venerable head of Antenociticus (now at knee level - how the mighty are fallen!) and the Mithraic sculpture from the Roman Wall. One of the features of the ertswhile Museum of Antiquities was a lifesize reconstruction of the Temple of Mithras which one might view for the payment of 20p, to be greeted by lurid lighting, chilling sound effects and a rather solemn voice-over latterly delivered in the character of a Roman Centurion. All that remains is a film of same, grainy digital images projected onto a vast screen complete with subtitles and a larger than life size person signing. No problem with signing of course, but his modern dress does detract rather from the whole re-enactment vibe; certainly not the place one might lose touch with the outside world that it used to be.

As for my beloved Irt-Irw, she now lies in her caskets with bandages draped almost teasingly about her withered breasts and pubis no doubt out of a sense of post-modern modesty or else according the poor girla long belated dignity. Last night safe in bed at home in Lancashire after the 140-mile drive home, I imagined her coming alive in the dark, wandering the stripped-out galleries of this once splendid museum sobbing as she searched in vain for her thread-bare chimpanzee...

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 11:49 AM

The folklore of folklore is likely to be a controversial topic - as seen by the defenders of the invented 'Jack in the Green' at Hastings, Gardnerian 'wiccanism' and the equally artificial Gorsedd stone traditions of Wales and tartan romanticism of Scotland.
The problem lies with drawing a line to separate invented traditions (in Hobsbawm's sense) and real folk traditions; to say what is bogus and what is not.
His own definition of invented traditions would seem to fit much of what we happily accept as folk custom today:
"'Invented tradition' is taken to mean a set of practices, normally governed by overtly or tacitly accepted rules and of a ritual or symbolic nature, which seek to inculcate certain values and norms of behaviour by repetition, which automatically implies continuity with the past. In fact, where possible, they normally attempt to establish continuity with a suitable historic past....
However, insofar as there is such reference to a historic past, the peculiarity of 'invented' traditions is that the continuity with it is largely fictitious. In short, they are responses to novel situations which take the form of reference to old situations, or which establish their own past by quasi-obligatory repetition."
Sadly a Museum of British Folklore is likely to appeal most to those most in thrall to the bogus and invented; to the plastic pagans and the sort of Sealed Knot types who dress in upholstery brocade. It's a bubble that will need to be pricked if the venture is to have credibility, however.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 09:06 AM

The folklore of folklore, eh? Or even The Folklore of Fakelore, as once suggested, for even the recent re-inventions are more interesting as to what they represent on an unconscious level as oppose to the generally proscriptive approach taken by modern pagans and folkies alike - think of the teacher in The Wicker Man telling her girls that the Maypole is a Phallic Symbol. But there is something in the human mind that assumes that all things we can't understand directly must have a symbolic meaning, be it our various extant Folk Customs or such Folk Lore as Ring-a-Rosies, which is why, no doubt, such Mythconceptions abound. So even Mythconceptions are folklore, and ever more worthy of our attention...

S O'P (protected by the ejaculation of serpents).

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

no Museum of British Folklore should be without a copy!

File under "British British Folklore Folklore". Then you could cross-reference the discussions on Mudcat about that kind of publication, filed under "British British Folklore Folklore Folklore"...

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM

England is in many ways the great Undiscovered Country

I would think the same is true today as it was back then; where there is folk, there is folklore...

Meanwhile, just unpacking a few more boxes of books (we've only been here a year) and what should turn up but The Reader's Digest Folklore Myths and Legends of Britain (1973) which is a classic of its kind; 540 large format pages replete with lore, legend, custom and wonders all suitably illustrated - and not a Green Man in sight! Actually, the absence of the Green Man from this otherwise comprehensive volume is a fair indication of the general recentness of his arrival into the folkloric consciousness; indeed, if such a volume were written today, it would be he that adorns the cover, rather than the Dorset Ooser...

Needless to say it now takes pride of place on my bookshelves; however so waywardly popularist in its approach, no Museum of British Folklore should be without a copy!

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 06:21 PM

Folklore in England
On 10 March 1954, Murray gave her Presidential Address to the Folk-Lore Society about 'England as a field for folklore research'. This opens with an arresting statement:

It is surprising how few people are interested in England, that extraordinary country which lies south of the Tweed. Many men and women, trained at great expense, go abroad to look for folklore, and when they come back they write large volumes of peculiar rituals, of marriage customs, of curious beliefs, of folk tales and folk medicine, with tabulated lists of kinship systems, of agricultural systems, of trade systems, and so on. Yet here, under our very noses, is a country as full of strange unrecorded facts, beliefs and customs as any land overseas. England is in many ways the great Undiscovered Country. [Murray, 1954: 1]

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:57 PM

They also have the trepanned skulls and sealskin arctic explorer's suits which partly inspired Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials. In fact, the whole museum did. It's right out of Lyra's world.

I love Pitt Rivers because it's almost a museum of itself. It's a homage to Victorian museums - but I understand it's going through a big refurb. I hope they don't ruin it.

Simon, if you turn up with kids they virtually MAKE you take a torch! They're like, "Open the drawers! Explore!" It's really magical there.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:07 PM

They have a witch in a bottle.

That they do - as donated by the amazing Margaret Murray. Read all about it: http://england.prm.ox.ac.uk/englishness-Margaret-Murray.html

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM

"The Pitt Rivers is a fantastic museum and with lighting levels and labels that would never be allowed today. Few people who visit it are aware that you can ask for a torch at the front desk to help get a really good look at all those shrunken heads"

They have a witch in a bottle.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:17 PM

"Let us have a museum of ENGLISH folklore"
nothing like a bit of xenophobia to spice up the day, and yes bubblyrate PLEASE read the thread.
Thank You! Have a lovely day:-D

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

Always a bit helpful to read a thread, before posting Bubblyrat. IMHO..

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Cats
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:12 PM

Any idea where it might be housed or have I missed that bit?

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:04 PM

The problem with having a museum of BRITISH folklore is that it will always relegate English folklore and music to a few isolated examples of Morris or Molly dancing,and the odd "OOOh AAArrgh" song about ploughmen and horses,whilst,as usual,extolling the virtues of Scottish,Irish,& Welsh folklore & music ( ie anything "Celtic" and therefore better and more pure than anything quintessentially English ).
      No ! No ! I say !! Let us have a museum of ENGLISH folklore, and leave "the others" to their own already-established,excellent,and well-respected institutions !

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Museum of British Folklore
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

The Museum of Jurassic Technology is a gem of a place, a magical twilight world where your beliefs are questioned and your sense of wonder elevated. I must of been more than a dozen times and each time I visit it there is something I've never spotted before. It's set in the most surreal place, next to a busy freeway but once the door closes behind you and you enter it's darkend, labyrinthine rooms, the real world fades away and you can peer in amazement at the displays and wish that there were places like it all over the world. It's a little like entering the realm of Faery, as I've come out convinced that I was only there for an hour or so, only to find it dark outside.If possible it's well worth a visit.......

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 08:03 AM

Didn't know that about the torches; fortunately, as an inveterate green man spotter, I never go anywhere without my trusty Maglite which came in very handy during my last visit. The museum website is a browser's delight: http://www.prm.ox.ac.uk/

The Petrie Museum's likewise: http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/william_flanders_petrie.php

And I can see the Museum of Jurassic Technology website is going to keep me happy for a few months: http://www.mjt.org/

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 02:27 PM

The Pitt Rivers is a fantastic museum and with lighting levels and labels that would never be allowed today. Few people who visit it are aware that you can ask for a torch at the front desk to help get a really good look at all those shrunken heads. Another wonderful but little known museum is the Flinders Petrie Museum which is attached to UCL in London. It houses one of the greatest collections of Egyptian archaeology in the world. Anyway, don't get me onto the subject of museums........ has anyone ever been to the Museum of Jurassic Technology? Now there's a museum.......

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:34 AM

One of the most intriguing things about that porcelain, is that both of them are engaging eye contact - not with each other as in a life face to face encounter - but with the imagined voyeur. Reminds me of modern Western porn in that regard. Though they do seem most happy, none of the male grimacing in particular which makes me think of someone suffering the pains of extreme constipation rather than having a good time.

So anyway, yeah, back to the Museum of British Folklore innit..

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:23 AM

Still looking for better picture of the Durham Taoist erotic porcelain; turned up this meanwhile which is rather delightful:

http://diptogo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/chinese-sex-ed-figurine.jpg

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:51 AM

Oops... I had a longer post but shredded it somehow - apart from that, for some reason there my brain insisted on reading 'Diaghphrams".

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:49 AM

Tao Magic - The Secret Language of Diagrams & Calligraphy

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM

Having narrowly avoided watching A Night at the Museum last night, I pondered the nature of museums in general, each of which becomes a fascinating piece of folklore in and of itself leading me to the notion that maybe someone should do something on The Folklore of British Museums. I'm sure The Pitt-Rivers could fill several volumes in itself, likewise the erstwhile Hancock Museum in Newcastle-upon-Tyne (presently being reinvented as The Great North Museum, swallowing many fine smaller museums in the process) which contained the unwrapped 2,500-year-old mummy of Irt-Irw, who is said to set off intruder alarms and has inspired various ghost hunts. During a school visit in my youth a friend once ran out in terror claiming her lips moved when he was looking at her; one of the hardest kids in the school too - didn't sleep for a week! Of the smaller Newcastle museums swallowed by the GNM is the Museum of Antiquities which has been part of the university for as long as I can remember. A favourite exhibit was the reconstruction of the Temple of Mithras on the Roman Wall; a lurid scene which lit up upon receipt of 20p, playing a soundtrack solemnly intoned by a Roman legionnaire with various sounds of howling winds & festive carousing in the background. I was in there once with a friend from college who had a dizzy spell in the darkened space and the next day told me her dreams had been filled with vivid Mithraic rituals; others have claimed similar experiences. Friends of mine had strange experiences at the Temple of Antenociticus and were moved to visit his head which resided in the museum from which they were summarily ejected by the custodian for honouring him with flutes, drums and floral tributes.   

One hopes that the Oriental Museum in Durham will always be there, though one exhibit was removed from public view owing to it being considered rather too obscene for public view. This is a mid-18th century Ch'ing Dynasty porcelain depicting two lovers delightedly copulating in the Taoist Hovering Butterfly position. It is said that two young Christian students paying a visit on a blissful summer day were so inspired by the piece that they made their way to nearby Houghall Woods where they consummated what had hitherto being a shyly platonic friendship in the Hovering Butterfly position. One wonders how many other couples have been similarly inspired... Anyone with a copy of Tao Magic - The Secret Language of Diagrams & Calligraphy by Laszlo Legeza (Thames & Hudson 1975) can find it illustrated on page 84 (plate 57) - otherwise click HERE.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:11 AM

In laying out and looking at the relationship between various aspects of 'British Folklore' it might be possible to start with the most worthwhile, decide which might actually be better in a virtual format (perhaps songs and tunes?) and map in what already exists.

Just a thought

L in C

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:54 AM

'Re: virtual Museum. I think the suggestions were purely for purposes of aiding in the planning stage?'

I see, sorry, got the wrong end of the stick. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 May 09 - 06:49 PM

"Re: virtual Museum. I think the suggestions were purely for purposes of aiding in the planning stage? "

Spot on

L in C

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:37 PM

Seems a good idea

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:26 PM

...or Welsh or Scottish or Spanish, etc., I should have added, CS.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:22 PM

"as would be any "Museum of ENGLISH Folklore." "

Problems with that have already been explained WAV.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:20 PM

I knew of that Swiss folk museum, in Basel, through a programme about the flugehorn, I saw a few years ago - seems a good place to visit, as would be any "Museum of ENGLISH Folklore."

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:18 PM

Re: virtual Museum. I think the suggestions were purely for purposes of aiding in the planning stage?

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:07 PM

Just as a footnote to the Virtual Museum idea, I'm a bit old fashioned and think you still can't beat seeing the objects, opening the books etc, first hand. In the same way that attending an event is a thousand times more satisfying than watching something on TV or a computer.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:40 PM

Thanks to Virginia for the link to the Essex site. I will read through and maybe contact them to see how they organise themselves. Regarding the Virtual Museum idea, in a way the internet provides this to a degree as Sean has mentioned. Admittedly it's not all collated in one place, in any kind of ordered fashion but I always find that once I start researching something on the web, it takes me to all sorts of unknown places which can open up other avenues of investigation.

In answer to Gillian's queries, I envisage that visitors will be lead from month to month as they navigate around the building. Within each month various customs and traditions will be highlighted while others are listed with the opportunity for further investigation in the research facility. The initial choices will be based on discussions with the curators and to an extent dictated by the objects/costumes/artefacts gathered over the coming year and a half. Other areas of the museum would be given over to special exhibitions which could highlight wider aspects of folk practise, such as Roadside Tributes for example, as Sean suggested.

As I mentioned before, at the start there is bound to be yawning gaps in what is covered. My main concern is that the customs and traditions represented are shown with integrity and help to give insights to a broad range of the general public.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:00 AM

Virtual Museum

I think planners already do something like this when organising these projects. How much do gaming programmers charge? Anybody know a likely volunteer?

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 May 09 - 06:50 AM

Would a virtual museum be a way of exploring the concept?

L in C

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 09 - 06:44 AM

"Did anyone catch Cooper's Hill on the news at all?"

'Real Men! Real Cheese!' Or so they say...

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 May 09 - 06:43 AM

Strange how these things work out... In Oxfam in Lancaster yesterday I picked up Gary Hogg's Customs and Traditions of England (David & Charles 1971) and Elizabeth Holt & Molly Perham's Customs & Ceremonies (Evans Bros. 1980), £5 the pair - they even had two copies of The White Goddess. Later in Heysham we were thwarted in our efforts to inspect the dark age sculpture in the church by a very floral wedding ceremony which spilled out into the graveyard where beauteous life flourished a while amongst the ancient headstones, upon one of which we found the following inscription: Heysham, 30th May 2009 1.

And on the porch, we found a very anciently weathered (and possibly hitherto unidentified) Green Man accompanied by two spirals : Heysham, 30th May 2009 2

We were hoping to check out the old public scales, recently restored, but they were wrapped up. See Here for the story.

*

Here's wishing the Museum of British Folklore a productive summer.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 May 09 - 06:41 AM

What about a Friends of the Museum of British Folklore? A group of volunteers which can become a registered charity which supports the Museum through a range of services; collecting, conserving, working on displays, work as guides, etc.

Something like this Friends of Historic Essex.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: GUEST,Museum of British Folklore
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:45 AM

Naughty Gillian! And Touche Sean.......I did try to watch it but YouTube doesn't load very well on my old mac but I got the jist. I can try and see if News for You is on iPlayer which is usually better. I will come back to your questions a little later Gillian, if that's ok as I'm just running out.

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:32 AM

Did anyone catch Cooper's Hill on the news at all? It was featured last night on Have I Got News For You. As ever, there's some splendid footage on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyQBSMeIhM&feature=related

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Gillian B
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:20 AM

My word, what an undertaking! Might one ask what the selection process will be in terms of what is included and what is left out? How do you see the museum being initially structured? You do know that you could have a much easier life watching jerky footage on YouTube and perusing apparently unbiased writing from the internet as a means of enjoying our rich folk culture, don't you?
However I'm pleased to hear you don't seem to be prepared to do that. I very much look forward to following your progress on what appears to be an epic journey!

Subject: RE: Museum of British Folklore - discuss
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:58 AM

Thanks for that posting. MoBF: "And no, I don't have a life and yes, I need all the help I can get!"

What kinds and varieties of help - would be useful (I take donations as a given)?

Do you have any strategy in place (or planned) for gaining and organising vollunteer support?

From what I understood from a Folk Activism thread I started a while back - most of the current endevours to promote public awareness of Trad Folk Arts etc. are being run almost wholly by a volunteer base of enthusiasts. And according to J. Adams in particular, this bypasses much of the stifling affects of centralised funding.