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Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl

Haruo 01 Jun 09 - 04:40 AM
Jack Campin 01 Jun 09 - 06:03 AM
masato sakurai 01 Jun 09 - 11:08 AM
Haruo 01 Jun 09 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Yosafat V.S 15 Jun 13 - 10:45 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Jun 13 - 11:27 AM
Joe_F 15 Jun 13 - 06:55 PM
Haruo 25 Jun 13 - 11:21 AM
Haruo 25 Jun 13 - 11:24 AM
Haruo 25 Jun 13 - 11:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jun 13 - 09:01 PM
Haruo 26 Jun 13 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Grishka 26 Jun 13 - 11:08 AM
Haruo 26 Jun 13 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Grishka 26 Jun 13 - 01:36 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:40 AM

I'm looking for singable translations of Battle Hymn of the Republic into languages other than English. I have two Esperanto versions, but am looking now for additional languages. Translations should be reasonably close in meaning to the original and should have multiple stanzas. Anything from Afrikaans to Zulu will be welcome.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:03 AM

"The original" quite possibly isn't in English or with anything like the same meaning. It's used as a dance song by the Hungarians of Transylvania, called ""Golya, golya" (Stork, stork), for a processional dance rather like the Gay Gordons. I'm told the same tune is used the same way all over Central Europe, and isn't thought of as having any American associations, so my guess is it started there and was taken to the US by emigrants.

Given that competing sets of words are already in wide use, I doubt you'll find a translation of the American hymn being sung much in that part of the world.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 11:08 AM

In French, but not a translation.

Mireille Mathieu - Trois Milliards de Gens Sur Terre on YouTube.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 11:23 AM

Yes, thanks Jack and Masato, I'm not looking for "texts to the tune", but "(singing) translations of the text". When I say "the original" I mean the original text that Julia Ward Howe wrote (in English) in the early 1860s.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: GUEST,Yosafat V.S
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:45 AM

can you made new translation for Indonesian?
This song is very great lyrics in Indonesian,but there're some difficulties on translating.example:...trampling out the vintage of the...,there's no good translation.Thx


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 11:27 AM

Why do you want translations of the American lyrics by Howe?

A great tune; lyrics should suit the audience, compatible with its history and religion.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 06:55 PM

Poetry is notoriously hard to translate effectively in general, and here we have some special difficulties: The diction is archaic even for the 19th century, being much influenced by the King James Bible. More, the images often allude to the Bible, and would require some ingenuity & tact to translate for the benefit of a nonChristian audience. The grapes of wrath would be hard enough, but hardest of all would be the wonderful lines

I have read a fiery gospel, writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel...."

The second line alludes to the Golden Rule, the Lord's Prayer, and the parable of the sheep and goats. The third alludes to the temptation in Eden, with the pagan word "hero" daringly (I suppose some would say blasphemously) thrown in to identify the Union soldiers with Christ. Fancy getting all that in without a lecture!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:21 AM

Q, why does anybody want translations of anything? It's part of human existence in a multilingual and not necessarily polyglottal world. People want translations of the Odyssey and of Sappho, of Dante and Stille Nacht. I just happen to be hoping for translations of the Battle Hymn of the Republic. It is not uncommon in British hymnals, usually with the final verse (usually omitted in America) included. I do have a halfway decent Spanish version now (4 vv.) but for other languages am still looking.

I'm also looking for a fasola arrangement of "Bunessan". It's just the way I am. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:24 AM

I just got back last night from attending three Festivals of the Mazatec Language in the mountains of Oaxaca. At one of them the (multiple verses of the) Mexican National Anthem was sung in the local tongue. One of the brass bands of little (elementary-school-age) Indian kids was really impressive.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:27 AM

You can see some photos here. Two new New Testaments (the first in these languages) were dedicated at the festivals, but that was not the whole show, there was a lot of good music both instrumental and sung, both folk and not, and dance, and storytelling. And food! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM

Agreed the language is steeped in the phraseology and imagery of the King James Bible, which would make it tricky to translate to a non-Christian culture. There would probably be images and language in the Quran that could be used instead, but that wouldn't really qualify as a translation.

But that problem wouldn't apply in the case of a translation for a Christian or even post-Christian culture, since every language has translations of the Bible which could be callled into service.

Though "singable" translations of songs like this rarely work. The Marseillaise in English just doesn't work. Far better to have a translation for sense to enable people to listen to the original with understanding of the words.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:01 PM

If you google for translations you find a few - here's a Spanish version which is used as a Catholic hymn in South America. Does it count as a "translation"? More a Battle Hymn of the Church Militant.

¿Has oído las cadencias de una marcha sin igual,
que satura de victoria la conciencia terrenal?
Sus acentos melodiosos son emblema celestial,
de gloria y devoción.
Gloria, gloria, aleluya.
Gloria, gloria, aleluya.
Gloria, gloria, aleluya.
Jesús es el Señor.
Es la Iglesia que en su marcha representa la deidad,
y a su paso va tocando la creciente humanidad
con palabras cuyo efecto reproducen con verdad
completa salvación.
(chorus)
En las filas del Maestro soy valiente luchador
que buscando a los perdidos me dedico con valor.
No me arredran los conflictos ni la dura oposición.
Jesús es mi Señor.
(chorus)
(chorus)
¡Amén! ¡Amén!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:44 AM

Thanks for that one, McGrath. I would agree that (apart from the first three lines of the refrain) it is more an independent text ("Battle Hymn of the Church Militant" is quite apt) than a translation of Howe's poem.

Of course a dominant local Bible should always be used where possible in translating Biblical imagery. (One of my main gripes about Japanese versions of Moby-Dick is their tendency to translate names, Ishmael being the most critical, into transliterations of English pronunciations rather than into their Japanese Bible equivalents. And this is why the Esperanto version of Stranger in a Strange Land needs to be Fremdulo en lando fremda rather than Nekonato en stranga lando (or worse yet Strangulo en...!))


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:08 AM

The BHotR has the character of a historical monument rather than a song to be sung, therefore singable translations do not make sense, even to languages spoken by Christians. All the less so since the tune is older. (I guess that is what Q meant on 15 Jun 13 - 11:27 AM; one can hardly object against faithful and tasteful translations of original folklore lyrics, which abound and often become folk themselves.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:59 PM

Grishka, we sing it in worship at least twice a year at my church in Seattle, more often when we have hymn sings or loosely designed evening services, and the sense in which we sing it has little to do with the War of 1861-65. It is a living Christian hymn as well as a historical monument. I disapprove of the selection of stanzas we sing, but I approve of the use of it in general by my church. And musically it's often a very powerful rendition, sometimes in 2:4 but more often in 3:4 time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mine eyes have seen the glory non-Engl
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:36 PM

Haruo, you are a model of peaceful attitude and worldwide understanding. Too bad that others take Battle Hymns as music for new (earthly) battles.


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