Mudcat and Other Social Networks

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 06:21 AM

I only use this, BBC Folk & Acoustic & Boards.ie websites, there just aren't enough hours in the day for all the other (what I consider to be) timewasting ones; I'm damned if I'm going to become enslaved to computers!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Amy_Florence_Nthants
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 12:27 PM

Facebook: Blinking addicted...and morris groups are amazing!

Does You Tube count?

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Darowyn
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 05:14 AM

I'd be wholly in favour of a more conventional structure and format for Mudcat.
I'm used to it now, but I remember the first few times I came here.
I would pick up a link to a lyrics search and be confronted by a long list of threads.
Click on one of those and again, a long list of posts- but any actual discussion might be pages down the screen. I never found them the first time, and did not come back for a long time.
I regard myself as a long time internet user- I first went on the Net, over twenty years ago, when it took several minutes to download a short text message. Even so, I found Mudcat a strange relic of those days in the way it harks back to the Usenet Newsgroups- so long ago that I have not thought of them for ages.
I would think it would be a great step forward to upgrade the structure of this forum to include the facilities of a modern bulletin board at least, with social networking add-ons from Facebook and MySpace as available.
And to all those who complain about notification emails- I'd suggest you check the help files and find how to turn them off.
This is a social network- can't you tell by all the sniping and snarling that has gone on in this and so many other threads?
Or is this an example of an anti-social network?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 04:47 AM

I belong to the following:

MySpace - as an additional shopwindow for my songs and link to "fan clubs", with some social interaction (note - I treat is as "additional" to my website, which is my main shopwindow)

Facebook - mainly for linking with friends and family, comparatively little music-related interaction there (my choice)

Twitter - mainly as a way of broadcasting snippets (I link it to MySpace, Facebook and also my website)

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 04:19 AM

You can look at what you are about to post as things stand ! If you cant be bothered to read what you have typed before you hit enter then I personally dont see what reason you could have for later editing , except to be nasty and then change the post AFTER someone has been upset !

You might post a URL and find five years later that it's moved. Yes you can add a note about the move to the end of the thread, but most people won't read that far. Leaving the dead link up will waste people's time.

(I don't see any excuse for retractions on grounds of offensiveness either - if you don't mean it, don't post it).

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Janie
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 09:19 PM

"Community" and "Social Network," though related, are not synonyms.

I value the Mudcat community. The features of, as well as the limitations of Mudcat are what have resulted in it becoming, and then remaining, a community.

Keep that in mind when contemplating upgrades and changes to it's IT functionality.

You are the site owner, Max, and it is your call to make. But I would not like to see Mudcat become a mere social networking site.

Janie

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 08:57 PM

And as Kevin has pointed out , another perfectly reasonanble thread has gone sour already !

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 08:55 PM

You can look at what you are about to post as things stand ! If you cant be bothered to read what you have typed before you hit enter then I personally dont see what reason you could have for later editing , except to be nasty and then change the post AFTER someone has been upset !

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM

Maybe there are changes and extra features that would be for the better. But from what I've seen of those "social networks", most of their extra features would be for the worse. They seem horribly intrusive.

emails telling me someone has posted to a thread I've posted on would just further clutter up my email intray which is already so cluttered up with rubbish I tend not to look at it more often than not. If anyone ever wants to contact me, the Mudcat PM is a much better way to do it.

It might be good to be able to open up a photo of someone posting, and a profile linking to music files and so forth. But one way and another that kind of stuff tends to come through in the course of conversation over time anyway.

As for editing our posts, maybe a facility to do it over a very limited period, to allow for the times when we post something and realise when we read it over that we haven't said exactly what we meant to say. But beyond that I don't think we should be able to unsay what we've said any more than we can in conversation. If we have posted something that we regret the right thing to do is explain and apologise if necessary. ("Never apologise never explain" has always struck me as a cowardly slogan.)

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Artful Codger
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 05:49 PM

Apologizing or clarifying after the fact does not prevent later readers from having to first wade through earlier mistakes, which is irksome. Better to say what you meant to say where you said it than to have follow-up posts saying "Ignore that," "I hit the button too soon," "That link you doinked that didn't work (and may have sent you googling to relocate), try this one instead"...

And if Jack has seldom had to reconsider how he posted something, he's either a rarity and paragon, or more likely, indifferent to or even gleeful of the offense he sometimes causes. Most of us aren't angels when we post, despite our efforts to behave, and we frequently make errors we don't catch until rereading our posts later. Even if Jack doesn't need such a feature, I'd sure use it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 05:00 PM

This thread started with a request from Max about social networking features which members might like to see added. The way in which it has "progressed" to routine antagonism may give him pause for thought!

Regards

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 04:30 PM

Mr. Campin... I cannot believe you continue to malign me without foundation. That is akin to liable. Have you NO manners or decency at all?

Let me respond in kind to your posts.... IF Jack Campin was an ignorant no-mind ass with ill manners, would anyone read his posts?

Now... do you have any clue how you made me feel with your posts?

I am outta here. The rudeness, bullying and personal attacks are sickening. You should be ashamed.

And, as far as anyone editing posts, YOU, sir, are the very reason I would leave if that ever took place.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 04:15 PM

"gnu" sent me a couple of PMs about this. I still have no idea why anybody would instinctively think of only malicious uses for a feature which I have only seen used to constructive effect in several forums over several years. Any experience to back that up? - if so, say what it is.

I can't see myself ever wanting to tone anything down after posting it. I've never wanted to change the substance of anything I've said on a public forum; maybe I might want to remove a grammatical obscurity so as to refine either a compliment or an insult to be more stylish, but I wouldn't ever want to change the tone. Some of the most carefully thought-out and extensively revised postings I've ever made have also been the most scatologically offensive. I don't do that sort of thing as a reflex action.

Usenet had mechanisms for cancelling or replacing your own posts. I think I used that feature three times in 20 years, in which time I'd posted something like 20,000 messages, in each case because I'd done something like get somebody's name wrong.

I posted a bit about the ethics of posting things for the record in a different thread a short while ago:

Google Groups archived post about archived posts

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 04:09 PM

I have taken responsibility for myself in the past when I was in error regarding misunderstandings. Quite simple really... I ackowledged it, apologized and tried not to repeat same.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Artful Codger
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 03:48 PM

I think it's an example of why it would be useful to be able to edit one's postings. Not only to correct unintentional errors and errors discovered after the fact, and to fix broken links, but to rephrase or remove inflamatory verbiage and statements prone to misinterpretation. Rather than avoiding responsibility, I view it as helping to improve the overall tone of the site and the quality of the information. If really needed, Mudcat could provide the ability to view a thread with posts in both edited and original form, reconstituting user-deleted posts. That would address the "responsibility" issue.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 12:19 PM

RE the contretemps between gnu and Jack:
A. it is often difficult to know if one one is jesting or serious. I tend to take the less serious approach.
B. I was shocked by a response to my recent email to a local friend "That sounds like a threat!...or am I being overly sensitive?" Whew! yes, she was and we quickly sorted it out. I was jesting.
C. We need to watch what we say, how we say it.
D. Maybe we need to give the benefit of the doubt? I tend to skip over what I do not understand of that ilk but I do not have the history.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: maeve
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 07:24 AM

I began searching for lyrics and song information with the Digital Tradition years ago, and followed it over to Mudcat. I joined Mudcat because people I know and respect are members. I am grateful for Max's Mudcat, for the Digital Tradition, and for the many good and positive contributions from known and unknown moderators and many interesting 'Catters. I've given more than I could afford in financial support because I value much of what I've found here.

I've always viewed the Mudcat as an information site. As much as I value the information that can be found on Mudcat and Digital Tradition, and as much as I have enjoyed making contact with musicians around the world, the only change I would consider useful and meaningful would be to set standards for moderation and to constantly stick to them. Many of the members I came to know and respect have left as a direct result of bullying and the inconsistent moderation. The once bustling MC chat is usually empty for the same reason.

Individual responsibility for posts, individual restraint in dealing with malicious posts, and individual freedoms within any discussion are all shaped by the examples set by Mudcat's moderators and creator. Many of the best examples (and I've seen many) are shadowed by the inconsistancies.

There are some very good suggestions in this thread. Twitter/Facebook/MySpace-type bells and whistles will not, in my opinion, add anything of value to the Mudcat community without "Management" and creator taking care of business regarding personal attacks (there's a prime example a couple of posts ago) and bullying.

With respect,

maeve

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 06:51 AM

Jack Campin... "If the only uses "gnu" can think of for it are malicious, that says more about him than about the functionality."

That is not what I said. Do not put words in my mouth.

And, I take umbridge at your unfounded insinuation regarding my character. Your post is a prime example of the malicious posts I was referring to. That is the type of post that drives people away.

Have fun with it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 05:09 AM

Edit posts? Throw responsibility out the window?

Editing your own posts lets you fix typos and replace dead URLs with replacement ones. It's a pain when you start a discussion by pointing to a URL and find the discussion is still going on years later but the site's moved. (Case in point: all the stuff at my own Demon site).

If the only uses "gnu" can think of for it are malicious, that says more about him than about the functionality.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Artful Codger
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 12:04 AM

Quoting is too often used indiscriminately: out of laziness, people quote the entire message (including all previous embedded quotes) instead of trimming the quoted message down to the relevant lines. This results in annoying repetitions of what you've already read, and you still have to puzzle out what part in particular the poster is replying to. I find that the lack of an explicit quoting facility is actually a good thing in general.

It's just as simple to type in HTML tags, like using simple italics:
   <i>Codger said: blather blather...</i>

Mudcat could add something like the "Make a link" helper, which would just add some HTML boilerplate for quoting. It would then be up to the user to cut-n-paste the relevant bits. It would still be abused, but not as often. And it would lend a more consistent formatting to formatted text, possibly including coloring.

If fact, a dropdown of common formatting features would be a great addition, and could add formatting in a way that utilizes HTML style attributes instead of the already deprecated formatting tags everyone currently uses. This could include italics, bolding, reply quotes, block quotes, monospaced text (so your chord symbols align), indents, leading spaces (for ragged lyrics, special fonts (say, for Japanese or musical symbols)...

A helpful alternative to such a dropdown would simply be to provide a "Formatting Help" clicky, which pops up a crib of the preferred HTML sequences for common effects. I think one could add this in just an afternoon or so, modeling it after the Help clicky by the subject line entry box. But now I'm drifting off-topic.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 09:53 PM

I actually spend most of my on-line time with LiveJournal, where my own blog resides (gorgeousgary.livejournal.com), and where most of my friends from the filk (and wider SF) community can be found.

I signed up for LinkedIn but haven't done much with it.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 07:47 PM

Oh... I see my post is back... I am still pissed!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 07:44 PM

To whoever the clone is that removed my post... fuck you! Not one more nickel from my ass pocket for Mudcat. And I have plugged a lot of nickels is this jukebox.

How dare you!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 07:29 PM

Edit posts? Throw responsibility out the window? I would leave Mudcat in an instant if that happened.

Mudcat has been my ONLY forum since I went cyber. Not just because of the resource.... becuase of Max's committment to free speech and the responsiblity to own up to the posts made. Anyone who has been here for a while knows what I am alluding to.

I don't care about anything else. Ya can't stop progress. But, ya can refuse to participate in regress.

A number of my friends have left Mudcat over the past few years because they just didn't wanna deal with the sniping, bullying, gossiping.... whatever. But, I stayed, even when under heavy fire for standing up for myself and my friends. I figured it was part of the territory and, if it got real bad, there were options.

I may reconsider.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 06:46 PM

I won't use Facebook. They expect you to sign up sight unseen and I object to that.

I do look at MySpace from time to time, mainly to find the page of a specific person or band. I find their search so awful, that I don't do it that much.

I do look at You Tube and although I have signed up, I have never uploaded anything.

I am a member of Chiff and Fipple and Concertina.net forums as well as various help forums. Chiff and Fipple seems to assume that "everyone" plays Irish music and I don't so I find it frustrating. Also I find threads discussing the merits of JoeBloggs (TM) latest whistle tedious. I like the tin whistle tunes site which is kinda linked to Chiff and Fipple, though separately maintained. I post files there from time to time.

Concertina.net I like and there are some interesting discussions with threads on playing and on maintenance which can be very useful.

As to Mudcat, a quote facility in the reply would be useful. I know there are workarounds but being able to select "reply with quote" below a message would be helpful in trying to make more sense of the thread. Too many people reply to a message without making it clear who they are replying to which can make a discussion difficult to follow at times.

The other thing I would quite like is a sig file which you can have automatically attached to your message. I know I really ought to sign my name at the bottom of my posts, but I tend to forget.

On the whole, though keep mudcat simple. It's great virtue is that it requires little bandwidth and is easy to use.

Geoff Walker

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: sciencegeek
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 12:52 PM

Not much new to offer... it would be nice to edit the occasional post, or view pictures - but I'm not very computer savvy, so I really do not enjoy overly complicated sites.

I rarely ever go on Myspace, Youtube or Twitter unless I'm specifically looking for something...

and Facebook just sent me fleeing to safety..LOL

I can barely keep on top of my e-mails as it is, do not need another source of constant barraging.

I will say that it would be nice to be able to hear snippets of songs or tunes that sound natural - the stuff that comes from midis sound so stilted and unnatural to an old fogey like me.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 10:31 AM

sorry i hit the button too early.

i love mucats and i have found that if the thread is long that i have posted to it is much easier to click ' post to this thread' and scroll upwards. it would be nice to have photos of people,but please cn we keep here sacred from all the bumph that comes with other sites? i like it how it is please don't cahge it!!!! xx

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 10:28 AM

as you could tell from the last thread i did, we are fairly new to this computer lark. i personally love facebookbecause
a, you can see photos of the person you are talking to
b,because you can have a private, and get responses quickly.

HOWEVER we had to turn off the email as they were driving me nuts, like other have said i can go the site to see what has happened.
the other thing that drives me nuts is the inane boring stuff people put on it, having a drink inthe garden WHO GIVES A TOSS, i don't mind posting when i think it is important or will amuse others but come on ,do we all need to know when you have a dental appointment?

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 09:55 AM

I find my use of any of the "above" has plateaued. I mentioned uses - for me. I keep friend lists LOW. I have "met" some really neat people and treasure my virtual communities. However, I understand that musicians need lots of "friends" in order to "get known", etc. I do not want to bother going through tons and each of mine on each site is important to me. I put links on facebook and am now moving important ones up the page lest they get lost - like Apple Hollow as it approaches the time!

Recently I joined this new "community" which has a calmer more useful format in some ways:

http://davisdeluxe.ning.com/profile/DorothyParshall

The music option is excellent and the photo option the best I have seen, IMO!

However, mudcat, on which I pick and choose, has the best in depth communication and I just learn to skip past the threads which do not speak to my condition and the nut cases who like to sound off.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 08:25 AM

I use Facebook everyday. I use it to keep in touch with family and friends. I don't like the emails I get though telling me someone has posted or commented or wants me to look at an application. I belong to Flickr too but use it mainly for photos my parents can see as they don't use Facebook but am a member of some groups/pools on there too.

I like the idea of a profile page on the cat but I wouldn't want ICM.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Joe G
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 08:12 AM

Thanks for the advice Kat - that will save me cumulative hours of scrolling! I thought there must be a way!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Tinker
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 08:01 AM

Facebook, Youtube, Community Calenders, Googel Reader, Picassa,Constant Contact.....

Okay I've been recently doing alot more social networking in my church work. (I'm actully presenting at an event June 13th called Geek-E-vangalism) I went to a presentation not long ago that talked about how different age groups approach the internet.

Most Mudcatters would fall in the information source catagory. Folks forty and over tend to simply come on to "find out something" Mudcat "as is" pushes that boundry in a comfortable manner.

I use Mudcat as an example of how deep community can grow through on line communication. There is a balance between quick and easy talk and communication.

When dealing with folks who have had some form of internet all their lives the interactive nature is much more intense. I like the way facebook lets me click and see who else I know is on line so I can chat if I have something to say. There have been times when I was on Mudcat at the same time as a friend and didn't realize til I was ready to sign out. It would have been nice to touch base.

I also miss the virtual song circles we used to have on Hear Me and would love to be able to set them up through Mudcat.

Our photo sharing could use an upgrade, but I'm guessing our precentage of dial up users is way over the norm for most social networking sites. It would be great to be able to have a cover photo and link into event photos right on the thread -- same with you tube links -- even if the link shot was a still.

And as a spelling challenged individual I'd love an edit feature -- but I'd hate to see threads become a wasteland of "poster deleted" There is always a risk....

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 05:06 AM

I mostly use Facebook. I do have a Myspace page but recently they won't let me log on. I don't know why. Is it possible to be expelled from Myspace?

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Artful Codger
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:02 AM

Max, most of the features you list have real downsides, and would probably come at the cost of advertising, slow-loading graphics, big-brotherish data collection and other spamming/intrusive opportunities that are the primary reasons I avoid the sites you list. Once you sell your soul to the devil, there's little chance of getting it back.

I view Mudcat less as a "social network" than as an information source. IMHO, PMs and chat are sufficient "social" features.
Very few people use the multi-chat feature, and when they do, they're seldom discussing music. This indicates the level of interest in "social" features. When people desire more direct interaction, they can easily move to regular email or an IM/videochat service; there is no compelling reason to include them here.

It would be nice to include sound clips, sheet music scans or MIDIs in posts, without moderator intervention, but there are understandable issues with that. Also an archive location for helpful utilities (like my HTML character conversion scripts).

IMs would encourage people to go "private" instead of sharing information (though many comments would be better sent as PMs). BBSs and public chat sites have degenerated over the years, primarily because of IM'ing.

The notification feature is already provided in a sense through trace; rather than emailing notifications, I would prefer that the trace page show a count of the messages added to each thread since I last read them.

I appreciate that it's easier to embed a canned service than to program in each feature, but this is one site where "less is more" (and more is less).

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 12:33 AM

I have to say, when I hear the term "social networking," the first word that comes to my mind is "shallow." I like the depth of communication we can achieve at Mucat (at times).

On a bit of a tangent but still related, somebody sent me an e-mail, saying they had pictures they wanted me to review that they had posted at a Website called "TAGGED." The trouble is, I have to register if I want to view the photos. Anybody know anything about Tagged?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:31 PM

JoeG, if you follow over to the right of any given thread title, in the list of titles on the main forum page, and click on the lower case "d" next to the numbers of postings, it will take you to the latest/last posting so that the thread is in descending order. That way you don't have to wade through all of the previous postings.

Another way to see the latest postings is to use the drop down menu in the Quick Links box up top and choose Messages Since Last Visit, then choose GO. You will then see a list of links to each new message.

Hope that helps.

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:16 PM

Bill D, think of it as a keyhole. A tiny glimpse of a subject, but sometimes a few words are all it takes. I'm not talking about the folks who tell us they're going outside to feed the cats or go get a drink in the kitchen. Those who use it well usually have a sentence and a link, taking you to the rest of the story.

And if you decided on an affectation such as writing everything as haiku, 140 characters are sufficient for 17 syllables and three lines. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:26 PM

(To add to my earlier restraint comments, I won't use Twitter, partially because, as a former philosopher, I can barely tell you what I had for lunch in 140 characters......but also because I will NOT use the cutesy nomenclature. *Tweet*?? arrrgghhh)


And BTW, I don't think I like the idea of a button for editing ones own Mudcat posts. In some forums, one's post gets buried in 'levels' and it can be important to be able to correct it, lest errors are forever set in stone. On Mudcat, a simple follow-up, very close to the original, will clarify most mistypings or even unclear language. And there are several mods at 'almost' any time who can correct serious problems (and often do, without being asked...such as bad URLs).

   Total freedom to edit one's own posts could lead to a situation like the US Congress, where the official record can be totally different from what was actually said, and lies & attacks could be denied as if they never happened. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I think it works pretty well as is.

(see..I told you I couldn't explain something briefly)

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Janie
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:23 PM

Facebook - and I hardly ever use it. The notification e-mails drive me nuts, and as others have said, way too many bells and whistles - most of them quite trivial and somewhat confusing.

Actually, Facebook seems intrusive. Seems like you have to be all in, or all out.

Following links to sites such as YouTube works fine for me as far as 'catter's music and videos.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:13 PM

Michelle makes a good point--Facebook is so generous with the profile information and the networks and groups you can join it is allowing me to track down a few folks from high school and college I didn't think I'd ever hear from again. I don't go prospecting often that way, but it is possible.

SRS

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:36 PM

I belong to LinkedIn, but only because some people invited me. I don't understand what it's for, and I certainly don't wish the Mudcat would imitate it. My Mudcat wishes are reactionary rather than progressive: I wish it were more like rec.music.folk, in that I could attach a reply directly to an individual posting rather than just at the end of the thread.

LiveJournal, which I have recently joined, is like that, but the length of replies is limited, which I find a nuisance.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM

I use the email-to-notify feature at other sites quite heavily, especially the ones I do not visit often. That's about the only feature other boards have, that I miss.

~S~

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 07:30 PM

I use Facebook and sometimes Twitter. I don't like MySpace at all. Initially, I went to Facebook at the request of a friend...bound and determined that I was not going to like it. But then I poked around and found some old friends I had lost contact with and now, I am there at least twice a day. I love the easy access, the ability to look at photos people put up, the privacy levels that *I* get to chose.

Michelle

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 07:21 PM

I joined facebook because I thought it was really, really important to share my magnificent lighthouse pictures with the world - and nobody looked at them. I got annoyed with the constant Facebook notices that so-and-so wanted to give me a virtual beer or know my favorite movies or moon me or something, and I gave up in disgust. I'm much happier drinking real beer.

I really enjoy listening to Mudcatters on MySpace, but I'm not sure I think I'm good enough to want to share recordings of my own music. I also enjoy many aspects of YouTube (especially the music performances), and use it as a video adjunct to a Website I maintain.

But Mudcat is where I feel at home. I love the discussions, especially the explorations of songs. And it's been so nice to be able to make music in person with so many Mudcatters over the years. I also enjoyed our Mudcat HearMe song circles that we had Way Back When, when Mick and I were competing for the attention of the Fair One in Australia.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 07:17 PM

I have used a couple of messenger programs (Yahoo and AIM) for several years to keep track of a few friends and family. I always have them set so I don't get invitations to join conversations, etc. My kids can see when I'm online, that's what matters.

I don't consider YouTube social networking in the same way as Mudcat or other sites. I couldn't care less about ratings or the remarks people leave. They're unmoderated, and they're mostly unreadable. It's like the remarks left at the local newspaper below articles--most of what is posted isn't worth reading and I'm not convinced it is there for any other reason than to lull people into thinking that the local paper cares or is responsive to their thoughts. I don't think this is the case at all.

A couple of years ago a co-worker asked me to join Facebook to research and the possibly advertise a special event on our university campus. I didn't use it much, but in the last 12-18 months there has been an explosion of stuff going on and I regularly go in to dumb down the features. I don't want email telling me when someone posts on my wall. I'll find it when I go there. I never respond to invitations--they pile up and after a while I go in and "ignore" all of them. By virtue of this being a forum that began in a campus environment, a lot of my campus co-workers are on Facebook and have linked to my page as friends, as have a lot of Mudcatters. I ignore most of it because there is so little of the apps stuff that interests me. I read it when my kids are on, or when someone I know who actually has something to say there says something. I don't post much there.

This is why I find Twitter to be an absolute English major's delight. No pictures, no ads, and you have to say what you want to say in 140 characters, including links. "Brevity is truly the soul of wit," and to play with the rest of the quote, this web site is not mad or inconsequential. I don't follow more than about 3 dozen folks right now, and of course, it's my choice who I follow. News outlets, modern philosophers, technology and science folks, a few of the panelists from Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, some of my local newspaper journalists, and only one person from work. We joined about the same time and have been figuring out some of the features, but I haven't gone looking for other co-workers, and though I had an inkling that Max was probably on Twitter, when I looked I couldn't find him. I monitor my "followers" and regularly block the ones that are simply trying to add numbers of followers and those who are clearly hoping I'll visit their sites and buy their products. I don't automatically follow anyone who follows me, and I don't post often.

I was following NPR radio journalist Farai Chideya, who I like on the radio, but who has not figured out that one does not write an entire essay on Twitter, sending out 20 140-character sentences to do it. If you fill up my screen to try to make your point, you haven't got the point of Twitter. Tom Bodett, Paula Poundstone, Peter Sagal, they post a remark or the title of a blog essay, and include a compressed link to the blog. This is what Chideya needs to learn to do. The news outlets post a few words about a story, and add a tinyurl to the page where it unfolds. I scan the Tweets and follow the links I want. There are a few I actively converse with via direct message, and there is some charm in this, especially if this is someone famous or well-connected who you normally would only cross paths with at a public program, but not stay in touch with.

Frankly, I don't want to carry on the same conversations with the same people on all sorts of different networking sites. I like the variety in different areas. My Mudcatter friends on Facebook are for those times when Mudcat goes down. I don't know who most of them are with their real names. :) I figure if we ever have to reconstruct the linkages after a huge crash or Max's house is vaporized, I'll do my part and have a few names and addresses I can reach. (Post apocalypse, mind you!)

My co-workers on facebook don't need to be reading what I'm talking about on Mudcat, or on Twitter, or in AIM or Messenger. They don't need to see what I view or post on YouTube. Mudcatters don't need to see what library chat we get to on Facebook. I think it will soon reach a point where this interconnectivity is too much of a good thing.

I use Google alerts for news items, I don't use RSS. I've started a blog recently, two of them, actually, one for work and one for me. I find that there are blog amalgamators that pick up posts and paste them in new sites unattributed and without a back link to the site. I'm going to have to block that feature--I don't write at that blog to throw my words out there anonymously or for someone else to take the credit.

I'm still learning, and we all have our limits. I don't Twitter on my phone, it would drive me nuts. There is some improved functionality I'd like to see at Mudcat--like easier access to profiles, improved chat, and I'd like to see a safe way to embed images in posts at Mudcat. I'd like the choice to trace a particular thread to receive a notification of new posts.

After looking back at all of this, I think I need to go read a book. Words in ink on regular old paper.

SRS

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:58 PM

I am not interested in all that "social networking" nonsense. If I want to be social, I have friends for that. I use Myspace and Youtube to promote my band. I use Mudcat to find or share lyrics, mostly.

Facebook and Twitter? I can't be bothered with them. As someone said above, If it ain't broken, don't fix it, Max.

Thanks for providing this forum.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:25 PM

I hadn't even thought of Mudcat as a "social networking" site, simply as a forum for discussion.

I joined Facebook at the suggestion of a friend, and immediate;y decided it was trivial and pointless. I visit it very occasionally, as it is sometimes the only way of getting in touch with people.

I have Myspace pages to promote my and my band's music. With a couple of exceptions, I only make "friends" with people I know in the real world.

I can't see the point of most social networking sites, which seem to revolve around the exchange of inconsequential banalities. Mudcat is different, for all its faults, and long may it remain so.

Improving profiles would be good, as would the ability to edit messages. I definitely don't want email updates, I get enough rubbish as it is.

An improvement to the search facility would be good, as it often fails to find something I know for sure is in there.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:24 PM

Facebook as the main site;

Myspace 1/2 times perweek.

But I agree with Treewind. COntent is all.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:24 PM

I use Facebook and MySpace - the latter mainly for promoting my acoustic music nights and finding new music. I also regularly visit the BBC Radio 2 & 3 , Trip Advisor, Music Radar and PC advisor forums

The main thing I'd like to see here is a facility to go to the most recent post on a thread immediately rather than having to scroll down each time (unless I'm missing something?)

As Paul & others have said the main thing has to remain the discussion - sites like MySpace are good at being outlets for music so keep it simple and keep it as good as it is!

Cheers & thanks for all the hard work again!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:24 PM

One BIG reason to NOT take Mudcat into the MySpace/Facebook realm is that will impair its accessibility in many situations.
Right now, I can get to Mudcat from work. Any link to MySpace or Facebook is blocked: "Personal relationships: access forbidden." In going whole-hog "social networking," the end result is that people with any sort of netnanny restrictions - students in highschools and some colleges, and possibly libraries - will be blocked. Not a good thing.

I like the way Mudcat functions. I don't want all the tricky stuff. I came to Mudcat through using Digitrad, and I still use the forums mostly to get information about songs and events.

I have to be persuaded with gifts, flattery, and significant bribes to look at Facebook, even for friends.

I avoid MySpace like the plague, after having a stranger set up a page using my email address, I found myself wading through @100 unwanted emails/day from that source.

I've been a long time member of AOL (one of the first million suckers...) but since they turned their profiles over to the BEBO networking site, I've deleted all of mine and don't/won't/can't access profiles of others I talk with there. The giving away of my profile and info to this sort of entity pissed me off ENTIRE.
One "social networking" aspect I DO like on AOL is having a "buddy list" that lets you know if your friends are online. Combine that with instant messaging that can be limited to ONLY that buddy list, and I'm all for it. I don't want to give up privacy or be deluged with emails/IMs to have that benefit, however.

I succumbed to the lure of having a blog though I'm bad at keeping up with it, and I can't see any need for Twitter or the like: anyone who wants my blather can get it on my blog.

I, too, would like the option of being able to edit my messages after they've posted.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:21 PM

Idon't have anything personally against these social networking websites, I simply don't have enough hours in my day to dedicate anytime to what's involved, setting up accounts, etc...

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: ranger1
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:16 PM

I belong 1up, a social netwoking site for video gamers. I find I spend less and less time on there as they "new & improve" it to make it more like FaceBook and MySpace. I also belong to Flickr, but that's more for the photo-sharing aspect than the so called social aspect. Mudcat is unique in it's simplicity, and that's one of the things I like best about it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: curmudgeon
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:12 PM

I'm quite content with Mudcat as it is. However, and 'edit' option for the sender of a message might be nice, sort of like a "P.S."

Also, a revived/enhanced Photo/Profile/Events section would be really swell - Tom

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:04 PM

One thing Mudcat has got going for it is that it runs on almost any platform. I use a variety of machines to access it - my post earlier today was made using a Windows 2000 machine and Firefox 2, this comes from a MacOS 9 one using iCab 2.9.9. I can't access Murdochspace on this machine at all (no loss) and if Mudcat got similarly dependent on Javascript and Flash I would almost never use it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:54 PM

I prefer it the way it is in general although I agree with those who think a bio section for each member with the option of putting up a few tunes and external links would be brilliant.

Myspace is great for checking out new music and a window for promoting stuff. Facebook is good for finding people you've lost touch with and keeping in touch with friends abroad and in other parts of the country, but it is riddled with crap too. I don't really use any others apart from posting a little on fRoots and the BBC folk forum.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:01 PM

.....another stick-in-the-mud over here too!

I think Mudcat suits its purpose well as it is. I feel no attraction to any of the other social networking sites.

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: BB
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:00 PM

I joined Facebook when it was all much simpler, but they keep changing how it works, and I really can't be bothered to keep up with it - it's all got far too complicated for me to spend time on it.

We have got a MySpace page, but only because we were told that we ought to do so, and once again, I'm not sure how much it's worth bothering with.

And please don't make any drastic changes to Mudcat - it's the only site I visit with any frequency at all, and if it changed much, I probably wouldn't bother! Don't take it away from me, please!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: RTim
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:57 PM

I see Mudcat as - a Subject Led Discussion Source - and only a minor Social Network medium.
I also use Facebook - and that is really for keeping in touch with Family, Relatives and friends over two Continents, eg. the UK and North America. And with people I chose!
I also use MySpace, but only to stream my music and keep contact with friends etc. in the similar field of Music, eg. Folk Music.
I also have a web page to advertise one of my recordings and use at least two e-mail addresses for all sorts of communications.
I like Mudcat as it is - except for the occasional "stupid thread" - that I can ALWAYS ignore if I don't want to read it. I would HATE to get e-mails as a result of something I might have written about on Mudcat - I am my own controller of how much to get involved.
Please leave as is - with all its faults and advantages.

Keep up the great work

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Anne Lister
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM

I'm on Facebook (for fun and socialising, finding out what my recalcitrant nephews are up to and playing games), MySpace (to have a shop window for some of my songs) and Twitter (although I haven't done anything much with it).
A profile page in Mudcat would be good for all sorts of reasons.
If I'm following a thread I'm quite capable of checking in when it's convenient - I don't need further notifications sent automatically.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:14 PM

I would like to go to my PM's sent and received and hit one button to delete the lot. Becuase you can't, my PM's keep building up and I haven't got the will to go and delete them one by one.

I would like to see an edit button for your own posts, as you get in most forums.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:43 PM

Overall, most of us (including me) seem to favor minimal changes to Mudcat.

Restoring and combining Member Profiles and Member Photos would be a good start.

The ability to request email notification of any new comment on a specified thread would certainly be welcome. Adding a simple "Notify me of any further messages" button to the current "Add to Tracer" would probably work.

And, speaking of the "Tracer," I would REALLY like to see a way to delete multiple listings at once, using checkboxes in the same manner as in any and every email interface. The current setup, where you can delete only one iotem at a time and then wait several seconds before deleting another single item, doesn't work for me. I have WAY too many no-longer-necessary listings in my Tracer, and way too little patience.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 02:01 PM

Mudcat doesn't need to go the way of MyFace, TwitBook and so on...

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid!!

I'm not so sure profiles really help - you can get the measure of someone much more accurately by the way they 'talk' rather than just by the things they admit to in a 'profile'.

Facebook really annoys me with all those fake 'messages' trying to trick you into paying money for something that you neither want nor need...

YouTube has its uses, Mudcat has different, but equally valid uses...

From the posts thus far in this thread I am comforted to learn I am not alone in my thoughts!! Okay, I'm a boring stick-in-the-mud(cat) - but I like it that way!!

;o)

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:50 PM

Penn State? I thought you said the state pen?

Hey, it's your baby and you don't need my opinion, Do whatever your little thumping gizzard wants my friend.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:48 PM

Hi, Max. I use facebook only to stay in touch with a couple of nieces who live far away.

I much prefer the simplicity of Mudcat.
It would really annoy me if I got an email every time someone posted a response to one of my messages here.

I do subscribe to some channels of interest on you tube, but I think any mudcatter who wants to share videos via you tube already posts them here on the forum.

Thanks for all you do.

Alice

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:43 PM

Hiya Max.
You stuck with me on Facebook and myspace
Cheers

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:37 PM

Compared with the forums of Myspace, BBC, and Google Groups, I prefer the simple effective system of the Mudcat we have now.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:37 PM

I don't approve of any changes which do not reflect the 1996 Definition


I am on the following

Facebook - rarely visit - it is too busy. I don't know what to look at or do with it.
Twitter - rarely visit - too vapid
Myspace - usually visit only when I get an email notification that my daughter has posted to her page.
LiveJournal - read once a month or so to keep up with Andie's friends, occasionally post.

I have spent more time on mudcat than any other networking site and I like it the way it is.   Simple is good. Though profiles would be we can update ourselves would be good.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:15 PM

Tried Facebook for about a day - couldn't be bothered with it. Same for MySpace.

My videos go on YouTube. Other than that, my own website says everything about me I want people to know.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 01:03 PM

I use Mudcat/Facebook/Myspace/Folk Radio UK/ Radio 2 Folk Forum to keep informed about the Folk Scene and use them for promoting Faldingworth Live.

Myspace and Youtube in particular help me greatly to look at performeres that I might want to book in the future at Faldingworth.

Myspace is also great for checking artists gigs out, especially when I need to phone an artist becuase they are appearing at Faldingworth. I try to make sure I phone the act when they are not gigging, so that I don't disturb their sleep in the mornings.

I use Myspace to put songs on for acts that are appearing shortly at Faldingworth, so that people can listen to them before booking (If they haven't seen them before.

I use folk diaries to see who is on in the lincolnshire area

Overall they are all great tools for being an organiser.

However, if I wasn't organsising and not being a person who sings or plays, most of the above tools would not be used.

I do not use any of the additional gadgets that you get with Facebook etc. I used to but they drag you in and you find your time is gone.

Above all I am fortunate enough to have taught and used computers for many a long time, which makes using all of the above dead simple and fast to use. They have all been a godsend.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:46 PM

Like others here: I could do with the personal profile stuff being fixed.

The last thing we want is to turn Mudcat into something Rupert Murdoch would want to buy up. (Not only do I never use MySpace, if I know an artist has a MurdochSpace page, it puts me off checking their work out in any form - given the alternative, I will always listen to someone who has nothing to do with that fascist shit).

I started the signup process for both orkut and Facebook and abandoned both when I realized how much pointlessly nosy marketing info they wanted. Twitter seems at least straightforward but I don't have a use for it yet.

I use YouTube quite a lot, despite not being too keen on the number of clicks it takes to get from A to B when doing anything other than watch. It's like a badly designed airport terminal.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:03 PM

Max, I think you should change it so that you can make it VERY profitable to you by linking it up with as many other ways of making money as you can! Go for it. "The times they are a changin'".

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:02 PM

I agree with jOhn and KT...

I do not like "automatic" anything! It sorta bothers me that one visit to see what Mudcat's Facebook page was like suddenly got my email filled with invites....5-6 from people I have no idea whether I know.

I do like OPTIONS to find people, music...etc.. and to know HOW to contact people...like Mudcat PMs. I don't think my brain is wired for random daily chatter.. *wry grin*

My wife 'does' some Facebook stuff, and finds some nice contacts with friends, but she says there is a lot of trivial posting about 'favorite flavors of Jello', or the like. I can get about all of that I can handle in Mudcat BS threads.

I 'may' change my mind and try it later, but....

to quote jOhn's remark: "note-to anyone that sent me invite or whatever, if i don't answr i'm not been ungrateful or ignorant, i'm just doing other stuff, working, studying etc."

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:56 AM

I'm on Facebook, mostly because that's where our daughter is posting pictures of the new granddaughter. I agree with the "please don't send me more emails" group.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:55 AM

For me, part of the appeal of Mudcat as a forum has always been its relative (and in some ways deceptive) simplicity - which helps maintain its focus, most of the time. That said, a few "bells and whistles" might serve to distract some of our more agitated contributors...

Regards

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:50 AM

I've been on Facebook (and enjoying it) for a couple of months. It took me a while to find the controls where I could turn off the option to receive an email for every single stupid little message/notice/whatever. FB provides a large number of different options you can turn on or off (e.g., you can turn quiz results off and status updates on), but I don't believe there's an option to request email notification for specified individual discussions but not others. As someone mentioned above, that's an option that would be welcome at Mudcat.

Accessibility to the public is an interesting issue. I like how Mudcat is open to anyone and everyone, for posting as well as for reading. Facebook is at the opposite extreme: only members get to see anything at all, and only "friends" have access to certain of each other's info. (On FB, if you set up an "event" page for a gig, you're given a URL you can pass along to non-members, allowing them acces to that one FB page. However, stangers/browsers cannot find their way to any FB page without such inside information.)

We used to have Member Profiles here at Mudcat. I had posted a meager amount of info about myself, and was just about ready to add more when The Crash occurred and the feature was permanently disabled. Reinstating the profiles would be nice; installing a new member-profile format as part of an overall "facelift" might be even nicer.

Good for you Max, for continuing to contribute time and effort to maintaining Mudcat. But: let's not change it TOO much now, please!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:49 AM

Mudcat simply doesn't need any of the fancy attachments that are featured on the "social" network sites. Having said that, I don't participate (nor do I plan to) in the said websites.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Eve Goldberg
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM

I am on Facebook quite a lot. I have a MySpace page but I find MySpace pretty clunky. I also have profiles on a few other social networking sites, mostly for professional reasons, but I don't use them very much.

I love Mudcat, but there are a few things that would be nice. I like the idea of having a profile where you could post as much or as little information as you want - it would help me sort out who's who! I agree with Banjiman that I wouldn't want that aspect to take over the discussion aspect, which is what makes Mudcat great.

I also wish there was a way to get to my personal page when I'm in the middle of a thread without having to scroll all the way back to the top. In between each post in a thread there are blue clickies for "Forum Home" "Top" "Post" etc. Why not "Personal Page?"

And I think getting an email when someone has replied to a thread that you are following would be good, but only if you had the option of turning it on and off for each thread. For instance, if there's a thread that's really active, I don't want to receive an email every single time someone posts. But I would love to receive an email if someone posted an answer to a question I had a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:25 AM

"I'd love an easy way to check out other Mudcatters Music and personl profiles. But keep it simple"

Yeah, it's the one thing that every other fora going on t'web has as bog standard - even the really crappy rickety ones!

Soon as you sign up, you get offered a bio page. You punch in a few sentances about you and your interests, and post links to one or two favourite sites. It helps people to gain some context to the poster, and gives the poster the space to link to their own sites. Which on a music forum like this, is going to be very many of the contributors. When other posters click on your name in a thread, they see the bio.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:20 AM

I agree with Banjiman. I use facebook only occasionally...I find it way too busy. I use myspace to listen to folks whose music I might be interested in and I use youtube for promo and to learn and enjoy lots of things, musical and otherwise.

I don't need to know if someone has responded to a posting...I"ll check soon enough and I don't see any reason to have a twitter-like ability. I use myopera to share photos.

I do like the idea of clicking on someone's name to access their profile/music/etc. as much as they are willing to share. I would like an easy way to deleted scads of PMs without having to checkmark each one and without having to read each one separately to see if I want to keep it. It gets tedious going in and out to read each one.

I've got some other thoughts...will be back later. Goodonya, Max, for thinking of this and being excited. Remember though, you are working with MUDcat folkies, i.e. we like things simple and not too much hotshot change.:-)

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:18 AM

Plaxo, Linked in, Twitter (abandoned), Facebook...frankly, the 'Cat has no reason to feel threatened by these outfits. It would be nice tohave full-featured profiles, and space for sound files (maybe a limit of ten per Catter or something like that); embedded utilities for MIDI management (playing, scoring, etc) would be fun as well.

The database, now, could be one hell of an engine not just for what it already has but also for chronologies (the ability to display hot-linkled titles for "Blues songs from 1890 to 1920 of Mississippi origin" would be a whiz, eh? Artist and repertory cross links, the ability to create subsegments of history with an "earliest known date" field...many, many possibilities come to mind.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Banjiman
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:03 AM

I use MySpace for promotional and personal purposes. All so to check out acts who are asking for bookings at our Folk Club or to find acts to book.

I use You Tube for promotional purposes and to find interesting music to listen to as well.

I'd love an easy way to check out other Mudcatters Music and personl profiles. But keep it simple and don't take away from the discussions being the main purpose of the site..... even if certain people do get a little out of control at times.

Paul Arrowsmith

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:38 AM

If we had working profile pages here we could host our sound or vids on MySpace or YouBoob, and put links on our profile pages here. Simples!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:37 AM

I agree with Newport Boy - I look at YouTube, but no more, and I've never been tempted to look at any of the others you list.

Tho I do look at myspace as performers wanting gigs at my folk club often use this site.

Well, I did until a few weeks ago when I started getting a spate of enquiries from performers in a different genre to the music we love. That's when I found out that Myspace has had some kind of an upgrade & I can no longer access the music unless I upgrade & I can't be bothered. I probably will when I really want to hear some music there!

or maybe not

and don't get me started on facebook! One of my friends received a rather terse email when he invited me to join. He thought he would & I still dunno why he asked me.

I can waste enough time on line without joining other communities - especially those that want me to post info about myself & collect friends & play games & ...

sandra who likes Mudcat the way it is.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:15 AM

Those e mails - just as irritating as McD's

'ya want fries with that??'

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: KT
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:12 AM

"getting an email when someone posts to a thread that I have participated in"

I participate in a few other sites. I strongly prefer to not have my email inbox cluttered with flags from various other websites, informing me that someone else has posted, or invited me to join a group, or any activity that occurs there. I'll find out about it when I choose to go to the site.


Good on ya, Max. Penn State is lucky to have you.

KT

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:11 AM

It would be great to be able to access music videos and such things--better to hear the music than just talk about it--

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM

I use MySpace, YouTube, and Facebook. I actively do NOT want instant chat (ICM). The pimped pages on MySpace are a pain in the arse, you can never find the bits to click on the page. The parlava to leave messages on YouTube is maddening. The functionality on Facebook is getting less and less accessible and its use and abuse of users data is a menace. In fact, I generally create wholly fictional persona on such sites to prevent them getting at my real data.

I joined LinkedIn at a client's insistence and have not yet found anything at all for which it is useful.

As for Twotter, why do I need to know the same second that anyone has farted or how many eggs they ate for breakfast?

I also use several Volvo related sites, perhaps most notably Turbobricks.

Frankly, the usability of Mudcat is head and shoulders above any of them.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:39 AM

In the last few months, I have become involved in myspace - for the musicians, facebook - finding actual old friends and mudcat. Mudcat is the most interesting. I do not get involved in insulting threads. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do not need to waste my time. I agree that the bells and whistles on facebook can be a pain. Simplicity is preferable. I do not like getting a message each time someone drivels. It would be nice if there were bio pages for each mudcat member but that takes someones' time.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:31 AM

i like mudcat becase its simple and easy to understand.
i just started using facebook, theres too much stuff there, ie, i just noticed that i have about 40 invites to join groups, be friend, play games, gifts of virtual chocolate bars, do quiz etc, its fun if your bored, but if i did everything, i would not get any work done.


note-to anyone that sent me invite or whatever, if i don't answr i'm not been ungrateful or ignorant, i'm just doing other stuff, working, studying etc.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:18 AM

Virtually the only thing that would really please me to see here, would be expanded publicly viewable personal bio page - the same as you have on all other internet fora. Where when you simply click on a members name, and it pulls up a page which contains - as much or as little further info - on them as they choose to offer.

Including of course (as this is a music site) links to their favourite and/or Own music sites...!

It would make understanding where someone's comments are coming from when they post, so much easier, as there's some context.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:13 AM

I agree that there are too many 'bells and whistles' on sites like Facebook . MudCat has a very pleasing simplicity of use .

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:09 AM

If it ain't broke, it don't need fixing!

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Newport Boy
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:08 AM

I use Picasa Web Albums, mainly to exchange photos with my kids. Other than that, a number of other forums, mainly computer related, and a few Yahoo groups - GPS, hillwalking and BMW bikes.

I don't do anything that requires me to give more than a username for public consumption, a password for access and a contact email.

I look at YouTube, but no more, and I've never been tempted to look at any of the others you list.

Sad, aren't I?

Phil

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:04 AM

Facebook. Only occasional use.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: treewind
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 09:03 AM

I don't believe in them or like them much but I do have some "band" pages on MySpace for promotional purposes because of the music streaming facility. And the networking side of it has resulted in a couple of gigs and a few enquiries. I've resisted Facebook, and I find it annoying that you have to sign up before you can even look at somebody's page.

I think I agree with Mario about Mudcat. Despite the drivel that's posted in some places here, the success of Mudcat demonstrates the web proverb that content is king, not fancy presentation and graphics.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Zen
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:59 AM

Linked In. I have a Facebook page but have never really used it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:53 AM

I belong to facebook and use it primarily to play scrabble.

I belong to a few others; in my opinion none of them come close to Mudcat for ease of use and overall functionality. Most of them are so filled with bells and whistles that it can drive you nuts trying to figure out what's going on

Subject: Mudcat and Other Social Networks
From: Max
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:46 AM

Hi all.

As you know, mudcat.org is a social network. It's a social network upon the premise that we all enjoy Traditional Music.

Currently, I am employed by Penn State University as, among other things, a social network expert. This keeps me deep into the world of what is and what is next. In addition to all the research I do for them, I am pondering the next iteration of mudcat.org.

It is my thought that the next step of the big social networking players like facebook, google, twitter, myspace is that they are going to open up their technology to folks like mudcat.org and allow us to integrate their functionality on our sites. The good part of this is that I won't have to custom program in new features to mudcat.org, just "plug them in".

Anyway, long story short, there are some really cool features to the various social networking sites that I would love to see here at mudcat, such as: getting an email when someone posts to a thread that I have participated in, more robust member profiles, online alerts and instant chats, sharing of songs/videos, and so on. A big programming job to be sure.

Let me know what social networking sites you participate in and what features of them would be cool to have here. Also, connect with me on my social networks:

State College Traditions (blog)

Kazoo & Tambourine Repair Company (myspace)

Woodpussy & Whistlepig (myspace)

Facebook

Twitter

Linkedin

Google Profile

YouTube

Google Reader

Picasa Web Albums

WPSU Folk Show (forum)