BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 02:02 AM

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! What on Earth could make you think I'm a Catholic?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,Roy McLean
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 02:00 PM

Oh, I forgot to include PAUL BURKE along with Ard mhacha and Emma above. In some ways his posts are the most disturbing of the lot. Full of sectarian bile and racism along with the now obligatory dig against the peelers! A very sick puppy indeed! Sounds like he's in some sort of republican Combat 18. Was he one of those driving the Roma out off the Pole Glass catholic estate recently? An event which has gone significantly unreported compared to the unremitting, in depth world coverage given to the young offenders in the "Village". You see it does pay to keep in with the media even when you know they are misrepresenting things! But silly me, I really am forgetting myself, didnt that nice, kindly Ard mhacha already explain to us how catholics never do nasty things like that! Ha, ha

Regarding being PC and keeping in with the media: "Hey Gerry, maybe we should put up a few Romanian flags along with the Palestinian ones, just to be on the safe side. And what about the Polish flag? Its very nice, looks just like the Cliftonville Supporters banner. The prods will hate it"

Re my previous post above,Line three up from the bottom should read: "It represents a racist ATTACK (not "attempt") itself ..."

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,Roy McLean
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 03:48 PM

In response to Ard mhacha's rant and Emma's comments above, I would like to reiteriate the obvious as stated by Keith A above, namely that during the Troubles in NI this sort of thing was carried out by both sides. Ard mhacha helped catholics in mid Ulster while some of the rest of us helped protestants in Derry City and around Ardoyne and the Ormeau road in Belfast. I know this because like him I was there too. Generally speaking the catholics were much slyier at this sort of thing than the prods. They are much better propagandists and much more accomplished at playing the International media. The Palestinian flags flying over catholic west Belfast are not there by accident, you know. Also catholic responses in ghetto areas were/are ruthlessly controlled by the IRA who would carefully calculate the propaganda value of any action on the international stage before allowing it to happen. As Zapper says above, the pious attitude of some in the Nationalist community stinks to high heaven!

While I do not approve of racism, I will say that it is a much easier term to hurl around than to actually define in real terms. With regard to the recent trouble in the "Village", I would make the following points:   

[1] I know the Village quite well. It is a poor, tough, very closely knit protestant, inner city area with very high unemployment. It is much smaller than vaguely comparable catholic areas like Andersons Town and Ballymurphy. The people in the Village feel threatened in different ways, not least by the rumour that the government plans to knock the Village down and relocate the inhabitants to different suburbs. If you insert into this type of small, tough, close knit community not 10, not 20, not 40 but around 100 people who are obviously foreign and let it be known that they are going to get preferential treatment, What do you think is going to happen? Come on, its not rocket science! What a stupid thing for the government to do! Its so stupid that you wonder if it was done on purpose. This wouldnt surprise me.

[2] Though the newspapers carefully neglected to mention it, when the Roma homes were first attacked it was their prod neighbours who came to their support and beat off the attack.

[3] The Roma were given shelter by a local protestant church not by the local catholic church which was actually nearer (Derryavolgie) and has considerably better facilities.

{4] Also ommitted by the press was the very bad anti-Eastern European feeling deliberately whipped up by the Polish neo nazi football supporters who had visited Belfast a short time before the Roma trouble. These people had deliberately started riots in central Belfast and in the Village area before and after the football match between N.Ireland and Poland. The football stadium is situated in the Village.

[5] It is not yet certain who the Roma attackers actually were. While some appear to have been local, others were described by "Villagers" (I better not say "Village People")as definitely being from outside the community.

Im sad to say it, but I feel that a lot of what has been written above by Ard mhacha, Emma and others is nothing more that a further attempt to demonize Ulster protestants. It represents a RACIST attempt itself on the part of educated, highly literate people against poor, disadvantaged people who have got few to speak up for them! It is carried out because in their hearts they HATE or have been taught to hate these people. When disadvantaged people behave in a racist way its sad, but when so called educated people act in a racist fashion it is not only sad but deeply shameful!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 08:18 PM

Romale, Shavale, hai Gyzhen

Akharas tumen
(We invite you)
Aven amentsa te marasa amen kontra o racizmo
(Join us to combat racism)
Kam le djila
(Love music)
Xolajvi po racizmo
(Hate racism)
Savathone Juli 4to
(Saturday July 4th)
Djes loshako la familijake thaj kethanimasko kontserto
(Day of fun for the family and unity concert)

Show the World that NI welcomes diversity. Stamp out racism.
Come along to the Oh Yeah centre next Sat for an afternoon and evening of music and entertainment put together by people from the arts and music community disgusted by the recent racist attacks.
Show the world we stand united with our migrant neighbours, racism will and should not be tolerated.

2pm - 7.30pm - Family fun, games, activities, music, workshops, facepainitng, music, dance, food.
Acoustic music from Anthony Toner, Ludwig O Neill, Tracey Dempsey + more

8pm - 1am - Live music and entertainment - including Joe Echo, The Vals, NI Soul Troop, Tin Pot Operation (acoustic), Nakatomi Towers, Afresh + more.

Entry by donation.
Family start time 2pm
Evening start 8pm

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 08:09 PM

There will be a concert July 4th in Belfast to make a statement against racism. Unfortunatly, most of the Roma who live in Belfast have fled to a nation where they face oppression and few protections from the state. I'll be right back with concert details.
Nyees tuka, agus go raith maith agut,
Is mise
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: bankley
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:00 PM

where would Spain be without Flamenco ? the Roma served well as her galley slaves for a long time... it was a harsh life but there were opportunites for real travelling, like with Columbus the Italian.. who got lost and found India in the Carribean...
Romania finally abolished Gypsy slavery in the mid-1800's... that was really 'white' of them...

I would suggest the book 'Bury Me Standing' by Isabel Fonseca

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 12:23 PM

members of an "Ethnic group with a language and a culture of their own",which means that the police cannot and will not arrest them,no matter what they do,for fear of breaching their "Human Rights"

Tsk, tsk. Dreadful isn't it. Only the other day a Bosnian Serb, or was it a Serbian Bosun. Doesn't matter, they are all foreign. Anyway, he raped and murdered a whole convent then dropped a lolly wrapper in the pavement. And what could the police do? Absolutely nothing. All because of these laws that allow anyone who is not English to do what they like.

And when I was in my garden the other day and saw fourteen Pakis knifing an old lady to death. When I phoned the local bobby he had me arrested and thrown in prison for seventeen years for wasting police time.

Makes you wonder doesn't it. I blame the PC brigade...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 10:55 AM

Romanians in Spain

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 10:50 AM

In a similar vein, Spain has offered a "bounty" of several thousand euros to Romanians willing to return to their native country with a promise not to return. This report was on National Public Radio. The Spanish Government spokesman attempted to be very PC about this, by saying that they were attempting to achieve a certain rebalancing of the work force, whatever that means. The report went on to say that the many unemployed Romanians in Spain were reluctant to leave because they reported that they could earn more in public assistance benefits in Spain than they could possibly earn working in Romania. The report concluded that the situation was Spain's attempt to deal with life in the "borderless European Union."
NPR does not usually lean to the right on issues. This report seems to indicate a more widespread issue that is connected to the one in Ireland. While government bounties are perhaps more civilized than mob threats, isn't the objective the same?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:51 AM

The City Church a Protestant church in University Street, south Belfast that provided emergency shelter to the immigrants last week has been vandalized

25 of the 117 Romanians targeted by stone-throwing extremists have already been flown back to Romania, while most of the rest were expected to leave soon.
The Housing Executive is paying for the families, members of the Roma ethnic group, to return to Romania using emergency funds.

This result will no doubt gladden the hearts of the racists responsible for these attacks and sends a very unsavoury message to legal immigrant workers and their wives and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 09:29 AM

Correct Emma, the two elderly Romanians in our street are to be seen begging outside Tescos and Iceland super markets.
The house contains 8 people two of which are chilren around 5 0r 6 years old,. two of the men around their early 20s go off to work each day being picked up by a local builders van.
This family have been no trouble and that applies to the other migrants in the street.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 10:01 PM

Before any other 'guest' (or more likely just the same sad troll) once more bleats out the same old completely disredited hate stirring statement like 'Zappers' Date: 22 Jun 09 - 07:15 PM

'Why all the fuss over these people, they do not care about Northen Ireland, only about getting what they from the system, do any of them pay their own rent ?'

let me make it clear one more time that -

'One of the reasons why there is so much overcrowding in Romanian immigrant communities is because the UK has placed restrictions on migrants from Romania (and Bulgaria), limiting their ability to stay and work legitimately in Britain in comparison with other Eastern European migrants, such as Poles.

In addition, Northern Ireland has been hit by the recession, unemployment is rising, and jobs are increasingly difficult to come by, all of which means that many of the Romanians affected by the attacks had already been reduced to begging on the streets because THEY ARE NOT ELIGABLE FOR BENEFITS'

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 07:20 PM

""It is pathetic that racism exist but is it really learned at the knees of fathers? No.""

Emphatically YES! It was the fathers of kids just like these, who stood in the street hurling vile abuse at terrified children who had to pass them to get to school.

Wonderful role models, they surely give Combat18 and the like a bloody good head start.

I have very firm ideas about a number of subjects, but I spent most of the time my kids were growing giving them BOTH sides of every story, and encouraging them to make up their own minds.

The BNP could try to convert either of them, but they would be wise to bring some bodyguards with them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,Zapper
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 07:15 PM

We all know what happened to Cassandra but it wasn't her fault. She was just cursed by Apollo with the need to tell the truth and fated never to be believed. But at least Priam didn't tell the Trojans to welcome the invading Greeks with outstretched arms. Troy's destruction was by stratagem and so will ours be.

What some of the people of Belfast have done falls under the rules of evolution. Put people in a grossly competitive situation and they will react accordingly. The people of Belfast, and the rest of the UK, are entitled to a decent standard of living and communities that reflect their shared values. If you put massive competition into an area ensuring people cannot pay their bills, put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads, do the best for their children, including a crime free environment, just how do you expect them to react?

The most dangerous thing a society can create is a person with nothing to lose. The one question, that I have, was not asked in any of the news reports I have seen. And that is : why are these people in Northern Ireland in the first place?

I hesitate to say that I have some sympathy with the indigenous Protestant people there. They have been betrayed by just about everyone; their own representatives, the Catholics, the Irish government, the socialist entity in Westminster, American politicians and diplomats. I am more surprised at the restraint of the people of Northern Ireland. I'm sure the IRA would be happy to personally house them all.

there is more to this than meets the eye. And the IRA sinn feinne pious attitude stinks to high heaven. Why all the fuss over these people, they do not care about Northen Ireland, only about getting what they from the system, do any of them pay their own rent ?

As reported by the police they have had complaints about attacks, but on each other !

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 02:02 PM

Just reported on the BBC N Ireland news three Polish homes came under attack in the loyalist village of Co Tyrone, why aren`t these Polish people warned that these are no-go areas for anyone other than loyalists.. The fact IS that all of the nationalist street in our town contain ethnic groups,much safer for them than areas like The Village.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 11:58 AM

'The British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has condemned racist attacks in Belfast which have forced over a hundred Romanians to flee their homes.'
Ireland on line 17/06/2009 - 15:20:46

Gordon Brown has called on the authorities to take all possible action to end the violence, and former IRA terrorists now sharing power condemned those involved in the violence

'British Coverment , always attacking the small ones .... '

As reported, several times in this thread, this violence was carried out by a number of youths from a staunchly loyalist underclass area of Belfast using Combat 18 tactics and chants
Not only do the British government not support these facist thugs members are barred from working in the police force or prison service under UK legislation

This article in The Independent last Saturday may help you to understand the situation and the background of those responsible for the attacks in this corner of the UK Skarpi

"Police have yet to charge anyone in connection with the attacks on Romanians in south Belfast, but the local geography strongly indicates that young Protestants were to blame.

A loyalist councillor this week referred to those responsible as "this small, ignorant, poorly educated minority who just want to go out there and cause trouble – they are racist from the backbone out".
These young people are alienated on so many levels: unsocialised, barely educated and usually unemployed, they are prey to drink and drugs, vulnerable to a sense of excitement generated by neo-Nazi websites.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 11:30 AM

Ard Mhacha,

So "Loyalists are racist, Freestaters are racist - Northern nationalists aren't."

Is this your point?

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: skarpi
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 10:59 AM

as I understand this , its the british people who live this area
who are doing this ??

well if thats true , why am I not suprised ................
shame on them who are doin this .

British Coverment , always attacking the small ones ....
so are this people on the terrorists list now ?


jesus I just cant understand the way of Mr Brown .


I sure would like to kick his ass , my shoe is numer 43 .


kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 10:44 AM

Sorry Martin that link seems to be blocked, this is part of it, from The Guardian Jan 2004.

he Village in south Belfast is a run-down network of loyalist terraces where unemployment is high, union flags sag from lampposts and almost every family has a link to loyalist paramilitaries.

In post-peace process Northern Ireland, communities like this are more segregated than ever - through choice. Last year, five student houses, home to mixed Protestants and Catholics, were attacked until they were vacated. The siege mentality against "outsiders" is rife.

In the past eight weeks, pregnant Chinese women and new mothers have been forced out of terraces and over a dozen Chinese people have been attacked. The Chinese community, the largest ethnic minority in Northern Ireland, has been in Belfast since the 1960s, but there are rumours that a "quota" on new arrivals is being enforced. Last month, Ugandan and Romanian families were burned out.

Many elderly Chinese people do not now leave their homes after 3pm. The best they can hope for is an egg or ice-cream cone thrown in their face or their shopping bags stolen.

This week, in the shadow of a paramilitary mural, a six-foot plank was hurled through the front window of the home of a Pakistani woman who was eight months pregnant. The spot where she and her brother-in-law had eaten dinner 20 minutes before was sprayed with glass. They had moved into the house 12 hours earlier.

The UVF and the UDA have denied paramilitary involvement but some suggest it could be "rogue elements" within their ranks with far right sympathies. One local newspaper has suggested the attacks began after a Chinese restaurant owner refused to pay protection money.

There has always been a crossover of far right groups with loyalist paramilitarism, while small racist groups are said to respect the loyalists and style themselves as "paramilitary groupies". Combat 18 is written in marker pen near Chinese takeaways in the Village and groups such as the White Nationalist party have penetrated elsewhere, threatening one anti-racist activist.

The British National party recently announced it is to field candidates in Belfast's next council elections to capitalise on feeling against the tiny number of asylum seekers arriving. The party is not thought to have stoked the attacks, although it will capitalise on the aftermath.

One local estate agent said yesterday that he had been visited by a group he thought were paramilitaries telling him not to rent another house to "Chinese, blacks or Asians". Ten of his tenants were forced out last year.

Desmond Birnie, a local Ulster Unionist assembly member, said: "The pattern of these attacks suggests that we are seeing a rerun, albeit on a smaller scale, of the tactics used by the Nazis in the 1930s."

Across Belfast, Sara - not her real name - sat behind closed curtains in her terraced house. Her front window is regularly painted with KKK, "black people out" and "I hate niggers" slogans. A Zimbabwean businesswoman in her 30s, she never opens her curtains to let natural light into the house, as the sight of her in the living room is a provocation to local teenagers. The shouting through her letterbox becomes unbearable.

"Sometimes when I'm in the bedroom, I see an egg hit the window and slide down. The writing on the window is replaced whenever we clean it off. Often I just leave it there. It has happened continually for seven months.

"Initially we wanted to move. We called the police. Then we realised it's happening everywhere in Belfast. There is nowhere to run to," she said.

There are 4,000-5,000 Muslims in Northern Ireland, most born locally, but there is no purpose-built mosque for fear of attacks. The community worships in converted houses it can barely squeeze into.

Last year, planning permission was denied in the Protestant-dominated area surrounding Portadown amid a local campaign warning people that residents would be "kept awake by wailing".

Planning permission has now been granted but the mosque won't be built, as the community is too afraid. In the past eight months at least eight families have been forced from their homes.

One family was shot at through their kitchen window, a number of Muslims were stabbed, one was left in a coma after a beating, others have had legs and noses broken. The community avoids speaking out. Whenever it is quoted in the media, the attacks get worse.

"The imam had to leave Northern Ireland after a gang of 10 smashed his windows and doors in, and told him he should get out," said Jamal Iweida, who runs the Islamic Centre in Belfast. "It's a matter of time before we have a fatal attack.

"The attacks are increasing. I can feel the atmosphere on the street. I have to be prepared to be called names at least once a day. I have a beard so I'm called Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein, or I'm told 'Paki go home'."

Duncan Morrow, of the Community Relations Council, said Northern Ireland, traditionally a place of emigration that outsiders avoided for 30 years during the Troubles, now cannot cope with the reality of multiculturalism.

He describes a culture of sectarianism that tolerates violence in young men. Racism has always run alongside it but is only now being noticed.

He said: "We have a lazy toleration of racism in this community. The situation now [in Northern Ireland] is what might have happened in Britain in the 1950s."

Members of the Chinese community talk of children being mercilessly bullied and ostracised, even a Chinese boy who won musician of the year. The political parties are under pressure to formulate some tough anti-racist policies to a community where racial discrimination legislation was only introduced 10 years ago.

But most of all, Belfast waits for the loyalist paramilitary leadership, which controls the working-class communities and young lads who live in fear of punishment beatings, to make a statement or move which shows the attacks will not be tolerated.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 10:36 AM

Martin this may help
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/jan/10/northernireland

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM

Ard Mhacha

You've lost me, I'm afraid. You seem to be saying "Loyalists are racist, Freestaters are racist - Northern nationalists aren't." Or is it just your neighbours? If so - bully for them, if you'll pardon the expression. My sole point throughout has been that street violence never solves problems - real or imagined.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 09:03 AM

I forgot to add , how many of you have a Romanian as a neighbour, or any eastern bloc country you care to mention, and throw in the odd Pakistani?, lets have an honest answer, it dosen`t cause me or any of my neighbours a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 08:56 AM

Martin Ryan where you there when the Rma families were removed from the traffic island in Dublin, and speedily sent back to their homeland, as for your travellers well we could be here all day.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 10:30 PM

You'll notice that a number of posts were deleted from this thread. We require everyone to use a consistent name when posting, and we expect behavior to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks, including referring to other posters as "idiots." We don't go looking for personal attacks to delete, but when we see them, we delete them.

And if you leave the "from" box empty when you post a message, there's a good change your message will be deleted.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,NYC
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 09:00 PM

Just read the story on the BBC. It was only two children arrested for throwing a few stones. Mountain and molehill are two words that come to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,ireland
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 08:07 PM

What ever happened to Larry was it, the person who represented the traveling community in America when they showed a dislike to them.

I mean no offense to Americans but you cannot deny there are no racists among you, how many white supremacist gangs are on the go, we have racists every where and I am not saying all Americans are racists.

We have ignorant assholes among us, some are loyalist\unionist others are rep\nat, like the crowd that put out ten polish workers in Poleglass, not to mention that to be a foreigner with different coloured skin in Dublin brings out the racist also.

(An aside to the poor Catholic whinge)
Do not tell me racism is specific to one community in N.I. and try to relate it to the poor suffering Catholic as if they are total innocents, I will not go into all the atrocities but suffice to say the IRA murdered more Catholics than the rest put together. Rem Omagh, children murdered in their mother womb, yes poor Catholics are capable of the worst kind of violence and they are like thir counterparts capable of racism.

# Kensika Monshengwo, training officer with the National Consultant Committee on racism and Interculturalism has "yet to see a coloured person who has not experienced racism in Dublin." There is no magic formula to stop racism but Irish people could look at diversity more positively.
# I have witnessed first-hand the sneering authoritarianism inflicted on blacks by members of the Irish Immigaration Service. I believe they should be required to attend annual day-long racial awareness workshops.#

It is pathetic that racism exist but is it really learned at the knees of fathers? No.

As for the scum there is no black in the Union Jack? What do we do with them? In a N.Ireland context we have seen the young from the 70's onwards spend their youth in Long Kesh because they bought into the argument some terrorist godfather\mother drummed into them.

Now we have C18 who deliberately hit on the young and stupid to get them indoctrinated and then cross the line to end up in jail watching their years go by.

It is the organisers of these groups that need to be taken care off, why the BNP is allowed to stand for any election is beyond me, they poison the youth the very people society should be looking out for.

Some one mentioned the 12th, here is something our worshipful brethren need to think about, when whatever loyal Orange Lodge hire a band to play behind them as they march. Some place a wreath at the Cenotaph to hour the war dead, those who fought against the Nazis.

I wonder how the people they honour would feel to know the music played is by a band that would have neo Nazi C18 members among them, bunch of hypocrites.

One last word on how our poor Catholic people are so badly treated and would never do a thing wrong, why would they attack a tourist bus as it drove up the Falls Road? simple the common denominator is the fathers on both side have knees upon which they teach their young how to hate.

Despite the actions of the few we are not all racist and we do not all teach our children violence and hatred on our knee, but we do get our lives f'd up by those few.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 06:19 PM

I've sometimes wished that they could incorporate the Cornish flag, St Piran's Cross, into the Union Jack. It would really piss off the Nazi fans with their slogan about "no black in the Union Jack".

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 05:48 PM

And the trouble with all this is, that most of the victims of racial and ethnic and religious injustice, aren't guilty of whatever it is that people hate them for. We see comments here and there in this thread that hint that the members of some group deserve the treatment they get because members of their group did thus-and-such - but did the VICTIMS do anything wrong? Usually not.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 05:08 PM

Poor Orde, the liberal English cop brought in to run the NI police . They've set up a parallel organisation- they simply tell him the nice things, and go on in the same old way. The cops know exactly what's going on, and it's not a couple of teenage fall guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 05:08 PM

Ard Mhacha

Not sure why you're turning on me at this point... I am well aware that this particular outbreak of racist violence against Romas has happened within a Loyalist community. My point about the incident involving the attack on the priest intervening between the march and Catholic protestors was simply that resort to violence as a "solution" continues to plague BOTH communities. I'm sure you can think of other examples within the Nationalist/Catholic/Republican community as well.

Beir bua.

p.s. in the nature of things, of course, as I finish typing this, Google Ads is helpfully providing a link to a "Comprehensive Analysis of the Romanian Property Market"! Sometimes I wonder which of us is the eedjit!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 04:35 PM

Ard, were not protestant families also forced out of their homes in catholic areas back in those dark days?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM

Martin Ryan I live in the north of Ireland, for years the nationalist people have been subject to far worse treatment than those unfortunate Romanians.
The street I live in consists of 36 houses one third of this street includes ethnic groups, one house in the centre of the street has a large Romanian family, none of these people have ever been threatened, on the contrary they have been given help and advice by the neighbours.

The reason why we have so many ethnic groups is the fact that they have been hounded out of every loyalist district in the town, this applies in most towns in the north of Ireland.

In all of the reports on the Romanians who were terrorised in The Village area of Belfast you had to look close to discover that the scum responsible were loyalist youths. The local police were "keepimg an open mind", ensuring that Esther Rantzen and her ilk. were completely ignorant of the situation here.

During the early 1970s thousands of nationalists were hounded out of so called loyalists areas, I should knpow as we helped those who were threatened to load their belongings on to whatever transport we could muster.

As I keep repeating this is on-going and as for those Romanians expecting help from the police they will get the same help they received in The Village area, sweet FA.

What is completely overlooked is the exploitation by private landlords of these people, some of them are receiving upwards to £400 per week from the tenants, these leeches have bled many of these people, demanding £200 surety before they get the house,I would suggest that the private landlords are far worse than the scum from The Village.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 09:20 AM

Thought someone would come up with that, alright!

Let him who is without stain, cast the first stone... IIRC

More seriously, of course, the perception of stone-throwing as a form of justice is a major part of the problem.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,Danny
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

Martin, you say a Catholic priest was stoned by youths and then assaulted by them. There are many in Ireland would see this as justice after what they did they on children.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 08:01 AM

There are also reports of a Catholic priest being stoned by youngsters during a protest at an Orange march yesterday. The "Man bites dog" element is that he was trying to restrain the protestors - and was, in turn, assaulted by them. Old habits die hard, on both sides.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 07:07 AM

News on BBC this morning.

Two TEENAGERS arrested in connection with the attacks on Romanian families in Belfast.

I wonder where they learned their attitudes.....BNP/Combat 18, or at their fathers' knee?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 09:11 PM

What's going to happen on July 12th?

Is this a taste of things to come?

Is the recession going to nurture old resentments?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 08:47 PM

"This,it may surprise some of you,can lead to ill-will and resentment on the part of the populace of the host country.It is NOT,per se,racism,but frustration and ,well, jealousy, if you must know----why should the rest of us have to obey the rules when they don't"


Let me get this straight ...

You're sticking up for a gang of young men who are attacking families with children in their homes, throwing bricks through their windows etc ...

... and you think the Romas had it coming?

because they're all thieves and benefit scroungers and because their children "of which there were many,were dirty,filthy,covered in spots and sores."

I don't care who you voted for.

This is what you're asking me to empathize with:



"'Romanian gypsies beware beware. Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear'

Text message sent by Combat 18 in Northern Ireland last week Belfast was shocked by last week's assaults on Roma families. But in 'the Village', the loyalist enclave where anti-Romanian sentiment is strongest, even those who condemn the violence are bitterly opposed to immigration. By Henry McDonald

    * Buzz up!
    * Digg it

    * Henry McDonald
    * The Observer, Sunday 21 June 2009
    * Article history

Combat 18's message, broadcast by text and email all over Northern Ireland last week, was hate-filled and menacing:

"Romanian gypsies beware beware

"Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear

"Stay out of South Belfast and stay out of sight

"And then youse will be alright

"Get the boat and don't come back

"There is no black in the Union Jack

"Loyalist C18 'whatever it takes'."

The rhyming racist warning has been picked up on mobile phones and computers across loyalist areas of the north of Ireland since the start of last week when the province hit the world headlines again for all the wrong reasons."


Here's the Article



You're so caring bubblyrat - lets shed a tear for the poor skinheads ... boo hoo ...

"I prefer the dignity of law-and-order,self-discipline,consideration for others,and cleanliness."

Presumably this describes the combat 18 lads you're defending ... ?


Something stinks!!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 08:18 PM

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090620/tuk-youths-charged-over-racist-attacks-6323e80.html

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 08:13 PM

ireland- UDA disarming, how many years after the IRA? Pathetic. Rantzen doesn't drag you down, because you couldn't get any lower.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 07:59 PM

My personal opinion is we are not ready for an influx of people

Nobody can be expected to be ready for an influx of BNP thugs, which is what you got. Their targets are irrelevant.

Ireland has had Gypsies for 500 years and has been treating them like shit for that long.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: bankley
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 07:23 PM

Thanks Bobad.... Ron Lee might show up in Franklin next month..

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: GUEST,ireland
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 05:44 PM

Racism is a curse on society, beging from N.I. I was angered with the over reaction from some English commentators about these attacks, Ester Rantzen says "the people of Northern Ireland are "addicted to violence".

Here is the story :
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/ulster-folk-addicteed-to-violence-rants-esther-14348387.html

After we get some scum carrying out their racists attacks we are all racist nat\rep unionist\loyalist alike, people need to take a step back and ask why we are all labeled racist when other countries could teach us. America, England wales, Irish rep, Germany and many EU countries are experts at racism, do we say the population of those countries are racist? of course not.

Anyone who knows about N.Ireland will find that the majority of us will try our best to help and assist people in need of help,and this is inspite of our infighting.

I do not agree with those attacking people who choose to immigrate to our country and I would share that opinion with the vast majority of people who live here we are not all racists.

The latest reason given is the attacks are a result due to the spate of pick pocket gangs from the Romanian community, supposedly.

My personal opinion is we are not ready for an influx of people as we are not at the stage to deal with our own inter-community problems never mind dealing with differing immigrants issues.

To think we are getting progress with the recent weapons decommissioning by the UDA and this crap is ued by the likes of Rantzen to drag us down.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jun 09 - 10:05 AM

""What ARE you people ??? ANARCHISTS, or something?? I can't understand you at all !!""

That lack of understanding is blindingly obvious, mate, and your ignorance of the difference between Roma Gypsies, Irish Tinkers, and English thieving layabouts, is likewise total.

Maybe someday when you join the human race, and develop some concern for the more unfortunate of its members, you might understand.

But probably not!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:38 PM

In May 2004 eight other former communist states joined the EU - and their workers still face barriers in some European countries.

Some of the countries which imposed no curbs on workers from those eight countries - or lifted them in May 2006 - imposed curbs on Bulgarians and Romanians.

But free movement of workers is a fundamental right in the EU. So the curbs can be maintained for a maximum of seven years - until May 2011 in the case of workers from the eight countries that joined in 2004, and until 2014 in the case of workers from Bulgaria and Romania.

The UK was one of the three countries, along with Ireland and Sweden, to place no restrictions on workers from the 2004 entrants. However, workers have to register and only become eligible for benefits such as Jobseeker's Allowance and income support after working continuously in the UK for at least a year.

After an unexpectedly large influx of workers from Central Europe - an estimated 600,000 in two years - the UK announced that it would impose restrictions on workers from Bulgaria and Romania. Up to 20,000 are allowed to take low-skilled jobs in agriculture or food processing, high-skilled workers are able to apply for work permits to perform a skilled job, and students are able to work part-time. Self-employed people from Bulgaria and Romania are already allowed to work in the UK, and this will continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:25 PM

The Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities said it had told Roma families from Romania that since they were not entitled to take paid employment and could not claim benefits, they should return to their home country.

Isn't it illegal for NI to refuse them entitlement to paid employment, under the EU law on labour mobility?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:07 PM

I've not forgotten that McGrath - or the number of left wingers, trade unionists opposed to the regime and the homosexuals, disabled and even Jehovah's Witnesses etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:58 PM

Let's remember that maybe as many as half-a-million gypsies were murdered in the Nazi Holocaust. See here.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 04:57 PM

Roma history in this interview with Ronald Lee, a Canadian Romani writer, linguist and activist.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 04:51 PM

An interesting web page on Irish 'travellers'

"Irish "Gypsies" aren't really Romany Gypsies, you know; they just had a similar life-style in the old country.

The English and other Irish called them "Tinkers" because of their skill at metal work, and some emigrated to the New World in previous centuries, so that Tinkers became known here as well.

We generally have a poor reputation, and some of that is deserved by some of us, but much of it is not deserved by most of us, even if we are outlaws. By the way, the word "outlaw" doesn't primarily mean "criminal," but "a person, group or thing excluded from the benefits and protection of the law." I'll leave it up to you to decide which definition applies"

There is an interesting Wiki page on Scottish Travellers origins too