BS: Train crash DC - June 22, 2009

Subject: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 10:55 PM

This has been on the news tonight.

I hope that all of our DC based friends are OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:42 AM

I used to ride that line a lot.... seldom anymore. But it's the one I'd use if I wanted to go downtown. Very, very bad accident....they will be investigating and 2nd guessing for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:04 PM

I used to be surprised that it doesn't happen more than it does. Nowadays I see very little reason for it to ever happen. On the highways, until the day comes that we get electronic controls on each vehicle, I can accept that it happens but on tracks it would seem that there should be such redundancy and over-rides that collisions would be a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:06 PM

It comes down to human error somewhere along the line. Even with the electronic controls someone has to be responsible for making sure that the system is set correctly and that the various parts are all working as they should.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:17 PM

I know, Jacqui, but that is where redundancy should activate. IMO

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:56 PM

It is 'possible' for the operator to override the automatic system which controls trains most of the time. (ALL trains are being run slower, on manual today). I doubt it is currently possible for the automatic system to take back control quickly if the operator is careless, falls asleep...etc.....although on regular locomotives, there is a 'deadman' switch' that the engineer has to press every couple of minutes. If he does not, the train automatically brakes and sounds an alarm.

The accident was on a curve, and (just guessing) IF the operator had switched to manual, she might not have seen the stopped train in time. There was one story saying there had been a general 'stop' order sent out from dispatch because of delays ahead. *IF* she switched to manual to stop, then delayed too long...etc...etc....

There will be a LONG investigation to determine whether there was human error involved, problems with automated control...etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:03 PM

The news are saying that the equipment was supposed to have been replaced.

I've ridden that line numerous times.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:35 PM

The last two which have happened in the past nine months were apparently caused by human error...operators texting on cellphone instead of minding their driving on the tracks.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: fretless
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:41 PM

Both trains involved were six car trains, and those are supposed to run on automatic (in default mode, 8-car trains are run by the engineer). Friends report that there were electrical problems on the line earlier in the afternoon before the crash, but I haven't seen anything in the news confirming that. The engineer in the train that rammed the other was relatively new at the job. not sure if that is meaningful. How this all added up into a horrific crash is not yet known. The cynic in me wants to say that they will blame human error, since the engineer died in the crash and can't protest at being blamed. The adult says wait until the investigators have done their job.

Seven dead, many injured, a tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Nancy King
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 05:58 PM

Heard just a brief story about this on the TV news here in Maine last night, and have been unable to get on line (you don't wanna know) until now, so I've been really agitated about it. What a dreadful thing -- the one picture I've seen is horrific indeed.

Doesn't seem much point in trying to guess why it happened. I'm sure the investigators will have a lengthy job. Dreadful!

Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:33 PM

My wife took the Red Line past the accident scene by two stops an hour after the crash and had no idea what had happened except for a email alert that a "disturbance had occured at Fort Totten".

In Boston she had a dream about a train crash and missed her train that morning when to her surprise that train (a full sized diesel locomotive) had a catastrophic crash at the station when it failed to stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22
From: fretless
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:48 AM

Donuel, sounds like your wife is a charmed traveler -- post her itineraries so we can know when it is safe to get around. ;-)

As for the DC crash, this morning's paper in DC acknowledges that the conductor did indeed apply the brakes, but no way to know how far in advance of the crash. Death toll has now risen to 10, alas.

The one clear point is that for safety's sake you should avoid the first and last cars on DC Metro.

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22, 2009
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 01:13 PM

Saw this on BBC News last night, bad business. I was pretty damn impressed with the Metro when we rode it about ten years ago.

Thanks to various people for clarifying what happened - needless to say our supposed quality newspaper today quoted everything irrelevant and nothing relevant e.g. "old coaches" and "no black box fitted to train".

Subject: RE: BS: Train crash DC - June 22, 2009
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 02:03 PM

The Post has focused on one teeny part of what the NTSB spokesperson said in a long update on TV.

She said 'there was bluing of the brakes & rails which tend to indicate some braking, and the 'mushroom' emergency button was depressed'.
She also said that 'all three controls which indicate "automatic operation" were in the 'auto' position.'

None of the passengers seemed to think they felt any braking. It sounds to me like IF she applied the brakes, it was at the very last moment and very briefly. Also...it WAS on a curve where she would not have seen the stopped train until it was too late.

All this, coupled with information that there had been 'maintainance' on the track signal system in that area recently, makes it 'feel' like a possible failure in the train controlling system.

The age of the train is also a factor.