BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss

Subject: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:04 PM

In 1968 I was living on the coast of Oregon. But we saw the police riot on television--and I watched my friends being beaten and gassed and some did die. After that, I moved back to Chicago, at least partly because of my need then to try to make things different/better. Ever after, I had strong feelings against Richard J. Daley for his "shoot to kill" order.

A few years later, a week after that mayor died, on a New Years Eve live radio show, on Chicago's WFMT-FM, I noted that Mayor Daley had been "laid out face down" so everyone could kiss him goodbye. Granted, celebrating the new year, I had drunk a lot of WFMT's champagne that night. But I sought no excuse then or now--even though I did take some flak for saying that back then. Few realized the reasons between the lines of my comments.

As I watch events unfolding in Iran, I'm forced to see the parallels. Viet Nam---Iraq---the brutalized protesting populations of young people with their motivating high ideals on display.

Do we want to go there, and does a discussion of this topic have some value now?

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:06 PM

Obama said, "The whole world is watching." Where might I have heard that before?

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:10 PM

There are some parallels, but there are also some important differences. For one thing, Iran is not legally bound to protect the rights of its citizens, while the United States is.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:13 PM

Human rights define Iran's obligations.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:50 PM

I was in Chicago for the '68 event, trying to act the part of "student journalist" rather than active demonstrator. I was caught by surprise walking down a side-street when a crowd of demonstrators in an adjacent street were attacked by cops. Suddenly, both ends of the block where I was walking were blocked by police, swinging billy clubs and closing in from both directions. I was knocked down to my knees, hard enough to tear my jeans and draw a little blood, cuffed, and dragged into a storefront that had been commandeered as a temporary lockup. Before we could be loaded into paddywagons and taken to a real jail, the cops were suddently called elsewhere, leaving us behind and letting us go.

When I heard the story of the young innocent-bystander martyr Neda, I was definitely remoinded of my own Chicago '68 experience.

The main difference is that I'm alive to tell about it while Neda and who-knows-how-many other Iranians are dead. Bad as Daley and his cops were, they weren't as downright murderous as the thugs supporting various dictatorships around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 06:14 PM

Brutality is a matter of degree but to apologize for it in any way is nuts.
Whether a citizen is beaten or killed is inexcusable in any country that purports to
uphold freedom of speech. In Iran, religious justification is given by the state.
Not yet in the US.

Daley's mobsters could have easily killed someone if not injured them badly to the point beyond physical rehabilitation. This certainly happened in the case of the Freedom Riders in the attainment of Civil Rights.

The US has no compunction about the slaughter of thousands of Iraqis or other innocents in Afghanistan. ( We kill them there so we won't have to kill them here.) Otherwise, like Iran, we torture people.

It's all crazy and inexcusable regardless of the degree in which violence is employed.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Art Thieme
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM

As far as I could see, our government in Chicago is exactly who did it to it's own American citizens. As in Iraq, no excuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 04:05 PM

ANY time power in a situation is held by someone who thinks they are either "entitled" to it or "invulnerable"...or both, they will probably resort to lies, media control and force to keep that power....especially if lots of money or religion is involved.

Mayor Daley was just a smaller scale player than Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, the Spanish Inquisition, ....and the current ruler(s)in Iran.

(In many ways, the rule also applies to men who beat their wives and schoolyard bullies.)

Sure there are parallels....greed, lack of empathy, fear of what would happen if they LOSE power, and a host of other things.

Subject: RE: BS: Chicago1968-Iran2009--Parallels?!Discuss
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 04:12 PM

"It's all crazy and inexcusable regardless of the degree in which violence is employed."

Well said string ... and what more can be said.

biLL