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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Banjiman Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:13 AM Greg, I don't know, is this parent from the school offended? "To black up in this day and age is taking things too far. I know it was a diversity day and it was supposed to help bind cultures together but having a bunch of white guys with black faces turn up at a primary school and prance about is just plain wrong and would have caused confusion among the kids." |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: greg stephens Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:09 AM There is a lot of talk, very valid, saying basically it's not nice to offend people. Well, up to a point, yes. But has anybody actually managed to locate anyone who has been offended yet? |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Chris P Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:58 AM "The Britannia coconut dancers date back to the 18th century" In point of fact not so. Various morris dancings per se go back a long way in the area, but the furthest back this particular manifestation has been traced is 1857. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Les in Chorlton Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:59 AM Exlnt, its so refreshing to find at least one person who has read and thought about all the other posts in this thread Best wishes L in C |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: dilligafxx Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:35 AM The Britannia coconut dancers date back to the 18th century and have blacked up in all that time,.www.coconutters.co.uk they do their own dances omititely not border. Witch doctors in the Amazon put white clay on their faces to frighten people, as do a lot of the African tribes. My fear is we are all getting too PC in this country and will end up doing nothing in the fear of offending someone.It may turn into a very grey and dull world. My friends from other parts of the world think it,s funny we take all this so seriously.What happened to respecting and accepting peoples cultures and traditions however different from our own and live and let live xx |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: theleveller Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:25 AM Well, I have to say that running around with dirty faces and ragged clothes, hitting each other with sticks, is not setting a good example to impressionable Morris Men. I'd leave those kids to it. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:03 AM Your questins Sal Why don't you do what I did and ring them and ask the questions. You will get it straight from the horses mouth then. Do come back and tell us how you got on. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:10 AM Come on Sal Do you really think that putting this thread up on here would do anything other than start a large heated debate about the issue? If not then you must be very naive, which I don't think you are. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: SallyM Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:28 PM Well my goodness what a discussion this has become ! Yes it was me who started this thread having noticed the article pop up on the BBC website (when I should have been working !), and I thought it would be of interest to some mudcatters. However I haven't been able to view the subsequent discussion since via my work computer, as apparently the thread postings contained some offensive words which my work IT system then blocked !! Now having found a few minutes to catch up on mudcat at home - in between playing at sessions, learning a new song, and restringing my fiddle - I think I am starting to feel perhaps the same as 'Guest The Hammer (newby)' 3 posts back. Having read, then scanned, then scrolled through a lot of the heated discussion - most of which notably seems to have been between a few individuals it seems, I was starting to get a bit bored with it all. Generally I do find Mudcat very interesting and useful for some informed debate and knowledge about songs tunes etc. However clearly some people have more time on their hands to argue at length - or maybe the current heatwave in the UK is getting to them. Just for the record, putting in my 'penny's worth'. I do think it a shame that Motley Morris were not able to pursuade the school to let them dance blacked up, and I wonder how much effort they put into this. Did they offer to give a talk to the audience/teachers/pupils about their costume? Did they suggest providing leaflets explaining their tradition to give out on the day ? Sal the Gal |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:34 PM "why oh why" - curious the way this has taken on the same connotations as letters to the press written in green iink... |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:22 PM Have you also noticed that the person who started the thread has not posted since. I wonder why? |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,The hammer (newby) Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:14 PM having read and re read this and many other threads, may i as a newby state an unbiased outside view, 1 everyone started out supporting motley 2 then everyone looked for a reason why they supported motley 3 then folks start tearing into each other, gently i admit 4 everyone then looks for reasons why anyone outside of motley should change colour of make up, 5 then i got bored why oh why does everything seem to end up with someone getting offended about everything. i love morris like folk but my goodness some of these threads are just a waste of time. sorry but im no way gonna stay with mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Spleen Cringe Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:21 PM the ascendency of the "no such thing as society" me-me-me crew. Sorry, hit "submit" too early. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Spleen Cringe Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:20 PM It comes to something, dunnit, when simple good manners, consideration for others and trying to see the other person's point of view get rebranded from trying to be a reasonably decent human being to "PC gone mad" and cause for those who espouse such matters to "burn in hell" ... Seems to me there's a lot of very selfish people out there, who go around castigating anything they don't like the sound of as "PC" as a handy cover for doing and saying what the hell they want and sod the consequences. I guess it's the end result of thirty years of Thatcherism in all its various forms and the ascendency "no such thing as society" me-me-me crew. I think it's a shame that some people think the right to offend is a basic human right. Whatever happened to compromise, rubbing along and trying to make the best of things? Seems to me that the school and the Morris Side were more adult about this than some of the people on this thread. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:53 PM Just a thought. Is fake tan (or even tanning studio tan) politically correct? It goes back to WW2 when ladies used make-up to simulate stockings so perhaps it is traditional. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Gervase Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:43 PM And as a border musician I can say that people have remarked on blackface. Big deal Martin - it's about consideration. It's an invented 'tradition', so it can change. My side changed to black and white. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Dead Horse Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:39 PM Well done Mr Duffy. Now can you help Vic get his head out of his nether regions. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Martin Duffy Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:14 PM As a border morris dancer I'd like to point out that never once at any stand has anyone made a complaint that they found it racist or in immitation of black people, who as far as I know don't tend to walk around in tatter jackets, top hats with feathers or bells. On the contrary I can recount a number of occasions where black people have come up & said how enjoyable they found the performance. In one instance a young black lady from London came over & asked the origin of the costume and said she thought it was fantastic, and wished there was something like it in London. Unfortunately there are a minority of white people who have an obsession with being offended on the behalf of others, without first asking said parties if they really do find it such an issue, and that I find patronising in the extreme. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:11 PM Vic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U25LH7i93XUI would appreciate it if you would give this you tube clip one star |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Vic Smith Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:52 PM Dead Horse, Thank you for your good wishes, given above, and may I in return wish nothing but the best for you and yours. My daughter manages a refuge hostel for battered women and their children, conducts much outreach work in homes where physical and mental abuse takes place and makes many court appearances supporting her clients. One of her main complaints is of abusers trying to make light of their actions, even to give their actions a humorous bent. If you are happy with songs that have "jokes" like..... My wife she is the devil She's black as the coal and And if my wife would me despise, How soon I'd give her two black eyes ....then you continue to sing them. All I'm saying is I don't find them funny and don't want to sing or listen to them. My own experience after 44 years of marriage is to thank my lucky stars, how very fortunate I am. The best thing I ever did was to marry my wife. Let me finish have a couple of lines from a song that I would approve of - We loved each other dearly and disputes we seldom had, As constant as a pendulum, our hearts were ever glad. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:48 PM Bit of a thread drift, but I'm thinking of learning 'A Stitch in Time'. So if anyone sings a song about giving a wife 'two black eyes', there's my repost! Not intentionally learned on that basis, but it'll be there in my repertiore, because I love the song ...and of course in the flow of a singaround, it would be the perfect repost to a song about wife bashing. I'd hope that folk clubs can continue to accomodate strong and diverse expressions of real ordinary folk experience. Because I feel that the folk at the clubs I sing with, would no more be offended by the wife bashing than the "battered and bleeding husband"? |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Banjiman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:31 PM That Mr Dead Horse is a nice guy isn't he! It's hot near these flames I can tell you. "I wouldnt sing it in a home for battered wives".... and that is the point, I don't think anyone, anywhere on this thread has called for the banning of anything. Just that a little thought is put into what is appropriate in any given situation. Simple good manners! |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Gervase Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:44 PM So YES, burn in hell, for all the harm you do in the name of good. Why thank you. And have a nice day yourself! |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Dead Horse Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:37 PM It is the pc brigade that my vitriol is aimed at. It is they who with their self righteous attitude stir up race, religeous or feminist rancour toward things that are completely devoid of any such intent. If my wife disturbed ME while I sat at my ease, if she did all she wants, and said whatever she felt like, without recourse to moral or social mores, then I should complain! Be it in fun (as I take it this verse is) in the verse of a song about men drinking in the company of other men. It is not mysogany(sp) any more that calling her "black as a coal" is racist. But if the pc brigade make enough noise about it, all those who choose to sing this song as written will be considered mysoganistic and racist by the ordinary folk who are influenced by their rhetoric. As for giving the wife two black eyes, do you really suggest that this is a serious call for physical abuse against females to be promoted? Sure it would be shocking if it were a song written today, but it is a song written yonks ago when such things were accepted, and sung with a slightly comical emphasis today as a dig at our forefathers attitudes. I wouldnt sing it in a home for battered wives, but I wouldnt have the verse banned either. So YES, burn in hell, for all the harm you do in the name of good. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: BB Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM "My wife she do disturb me when I'm laid at my ease She does as she likes and she says as she please" "I find these lines misogynist and I would not be happy singing them" Shame, Vic, it would stop me doing my usual, and saying, 'Quite right, too!' :-) Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:31 AM You have just offended me Banjiman, telling Morris-ey to p*ss off You banjo players are all the same :-) LOL |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Bill Brown Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:12 AM ">Put yourself in the shoes of someone black and then consider if you might be offended by the "blacking up". How wonderfully patronizing. How can anybody not black imagine what growing up in a mainly white country is like and assume what they would feel?" ------- They don't need to, they can just assume non-whites might be as thin-skinned as all the white people on this thread who take offense to their "tradition" (all 30 years of it) being criticized. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Banjiman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:59 AM p*ss off Morris-ey.......... ha,ha,ha! |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Morris-ey Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:52 AM Paul Do you spend very waking hour thinking of whom you might offend? Presumably you never leave you house - assuming you live in a house because that might offend those who do not, but then, not living in a house might offend those that do... Any way, offending and being offended is a valuable part of life. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Banjiman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:33 AM I am in the somewhat unusual position of agreeing with almost everything Tom Bliss says :) I couldn't have put what I think about the "blacking up" issue better myself. Erm Les, I can't remember anyone suggesting we ban the word "black" or not use it in any of the contexts you describe. Now that would be really, really silly and Political Correctness gone mad. However, if I thought someone WAS going to be OFFENDED, I would think carefully about using any term. Simple good manners. Paul |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:28 AM 300, definition of sinister=of evil omen;on left side of shield,or left dexter=right,someone who is dextrous , good with their hands. unfair to left handers |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Dave Masterson Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:51 AM McG - see DizzyLisa 01 Jul 09 - 06:11 AM |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:35 AM Vic,thankyoufor your replies,I too find Donal og,one of the most beautiful songs,I do sing it,even though I am not a woman[yet]. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:33 AM I'd be interested in seeing some kind of comment from Motley Morris on the post from "GUEST,Rick H" (30 Jun 09 - 11:45 AM) where he claimed to be a member of Motley Morris, and went on to say of Grevesend "Unfortunately it also has a large Chav/Pikey community and has recently started getting a lot of Eastern Europeans and a few Afro Caribbean residents." Because if that really is how Motley Morris members think and talk, they certainly shouldn't be invited into schools to dance. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Vic Smith Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:25 AM In answer to the following questions - 1] Vic , could you qualify ,why you would not sing that line. I dont think I would sing it either. I think I chose my words badly there. I think I should have said that I would not sing that verse rather than that line. As quoted above the verse goes:- My wife she do disturb me when I'm laid at my ease She does as she likes and she says as she please My wife, she's a devil, she's black as the coal Give me the punch ladle, I'll fathom the bowl ....and I find these lines misogynist and I would not be happy singing them - nothing to do with "black" or "racism". Interestingly, you may know that we regularly book the Copper Family at our folk club and there's something that clearly made Bob Copper uncomfortable in his last few years. The Coppers always finished off with Bob singing Oh! Good Ale. and in his last few years, after he had sung the lines - And if my wife did me despise How soon I'd give her two black eyes...... Bob would pause and look up to the heavens and address his dead wife, saying, "I'm sorry, Joan love. You know I don't mean it..... It's in the song, you see." So even the leading icon of English traditional song and one of the stalwarts of the tradition obviously felt uncomfortable with the misogynism and tried to soften it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vic ,would you sing this. Donal OG. Black as the coal is the heart inside me, Black as the sloe is the grief that binds me, Black as a bootprint in a shining hallway, T'was you that blackened it forever and always. I find this verse to be amongst the most beautiful and poetic in the whole folk song genre. I would not sing it personally for I feel that it is a exclusively a song of a woman's grief. However, my wife does sing it and she will tell you that it is one of her songs that I am most likely to request. A woman is giving vent to her black mood and downcast feelings. Again, nothing to do with racism. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ do you then exclude the word Black mail No, it has no racist connotations or blackening someones name, from from your vocabulary No, it has no racist connotations should we stop using the word sinister,because it casts aspersions on left handed people. Eh? Where did that one come from? could you explain,your grounds,I am not necessarily disagreeing with you,but Ithink it would be useful if you qualified your views. I hope that I have done so here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why ever not. Please see my first response in this posting. Next you'll be stopping the black country being called the black country. Or stop the Scots calling a particular brand of whiskey "Black Label" Or stop calling "Black Pudding" black pudding Or stop calling "blackcurrants" blackcurrants. Maybe all colours should be banned from the English language, for fear it will offend anybody of any colour or creed. Are these supposed to be serious questions? I suppose I'd better treat them as such! OK then. I have no problem with the use of Black Country, Black Label, Black Pudding, blackcurrants, blackberries, blackthorn, Black letter press, Black Market, Black Rod, blacksmith, the Blackwatch regiment, the Black Rood of Scotland, blackleg for a strike-breaker, blackout during an air raid, Black and Tan as a drink. The All-Blacks, Black Sheep beer (Can I stop now?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ How pleasant after all that to get a breath a fresh air and a few words of sense from Tom Bliss. Whether a song is appropriate or not is all about context. There are times when Tom and I missed out a certain song we'd been planning to do because we felt it might make someone feel uncomfortable. If i was doing a schools workshop on Race and The Tradition, I might even sing a song with the n word, assuming the school were confortable with that level of debate. When there's a line open to different interpretations as in FTB, I'd have no hesitation in saying it took it to mean black-hearted, then singing the song. There's no racist connotation in the association of black with darkness (either literal or figurative) - though there is in the association of dark skin with darkness. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:11 AM There is no clear criterion here. Blacking is a complex issue isn't always unacceptable per se. Exactly, Tom. By the same token it is not always unacceptable either. Each case should rest on it's merits and it seems that here the merits of this case were not considered before minds were closed. Having said that, Les's post about the team does put the situation in perspective. The team are happy about the situation. So is the school. Yet another case of the press making the news rather than reporting it maybe? Cheers DeG |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Guest JeffB Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:09 AM Thanks Ruth for letting me know that asking for black coffee is fine in New York State. Looks like it was an urban myth after all, though it doesn't detract from my point. Meself, it's easy to sneer and perhaps I deserve it for being gullable, but honestly, in these days of frantic paranoid PC who can say I was entirely foolish to be mislead. The fact that a radical black comedian found extreme (though fictional) PC views derisory 40 years ago might be of interest. Incidentally, just got my latest copy of Folklife West Journal which has a short article on the Brimfield (Herefordshire) Border Morris side of 1909. It mentions that they blacked up, but some had white paint patches. The illustration shows one member with white circles around his eyes, and another with a white area around eyes and nose. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:45 AM David, there are indeed different levels of racism, but to ignore the casual, the habitual or, more pertinently, the institutional (which the first two engender - and which can lead to some seriously unacceptable behaviour) just because they are not as immediately damaging as the violent is to miss a crucial point. We can easily take for granted the liberties most of us enjoy in Britain today. But they exist only because enlightened people in the past have been prepared to struggle against casual, habitual and institutional oppression. Anyone who has suffered bullying at school or at work knows that it doesn't have to be violent to be damaging. There is no clear criterion here. Blacking is a complex issue isn't always unacceptable per se. It's all about attitude - and if your attitude is to avoid offence, and/or to avoid association with more overt racism then you have a duty honestly to ask yourself some serious questions. My problem is people merely saying, we're right now because we were right before, and therefore everyone else is wrong. Folk is at a crossroads just now. How can we choose the right road if our minds are closed? |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:16 AM Out of interest has anyone ever met any black people who look remotely like a blacked up white Morris dancer? I would be seriously offended if I was black and told that I looked like a middle class white man with black make up on. Like I said before. Those who cannot or will not see the difference between this and genuine racism are, in my opinion, being particulary obtuse. DeG |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:44 AM By contrast, in some songs, we hear terms such as "nut brown", or "berry brown" in relation to skin colour of women and horses for example. What's that blasted ballad about 'The Brown Girl' from overseas, that some lord turns over for her dosh? She is contrasted with the lilly white woman, he supposedly loved but rejected because 'the brown girl' was wealthy. Ah yeah, just found it: "Lord Thomas and Fair Ellender" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4M-Nnaxbw&feature=PlayList&p=B2D0D5657EA394E4&index=20 |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:36 AM >>but for fear of being recognised by their friends! (oops - did I say that out loud?) << Especially if they are wearing white trousers with bells on their knees and waving white handkerchiefs LOL :-) |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:35 AM Yes 'Black' was often used as a referent to the Devil rather than 'brown skinned peoples', especially as until more recent times, the majority of people would not a brown skinned person - so the reference would not have made much sense to many. Similarly terms like The Black Coalsmith would be another synonym for Old Nick I believe, due to the Black (ie: specifically not brown) colour of coal. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:32 AM Whether a song is appropriate or not is all about context. There are times when Tom and I missed out a certain song we'd been planning to do because we felt it might make someone feel uncomfortable. If i was doing a schools workshop on Race and The Tradition, I might even sing a song with the n word, assuming the school were confortable with that level of debate. When there's a line open to different interpretations as in FTB, I'd have no hesitation in saying it took it to mean black-hearted, then singing the song. There's no racist connotation in the association of black with darkness (either literal or figurative) - though there is in the association of dark skin with darkness. The problem with street dancing is that there is only limited opportunity to set a context. Even if the squire were to bawl something about disguise to the crowd, many wouldn't catch it. Meanwhile the pictures continue to appear in the media, and assumptions are made unchallenged. A chum once suggested to me that dancers cling to disguise not for fear of being recognised by their employers or the authorities, but for fear of being recognised by their friends! (oops - did I say that out loud?) Tom |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:29 AM You should say that Pip. But I am fed up of the PC brigade trying to gag everything that is said and done and turning it into a race issue or "Oh my god, you shouldn't have said or done that, you might offend somebody". |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Phil Edwards Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:23 AM I read that to be in relation to the devil who is supposedly evil and its association with the colour black. I'd agree with that. Traditionally the Devil was portrayed as black rather than red - as I remember there's a character in Jane Austen who mentions "the black gentleman" (meaning Old Nick), which gave me pause when I first saw it. Next you'll be stopping the black country being called the black country. Yawn. It would be really useful if commenters could stick to what people actually are doing and saying. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:18 AM LOL Seems like you hit the submit button quicker than me there Captain. A few others "Black and Tan" which in my day related to a Guinness and a Mackeson in the same glass. Why do we allow the New Zealand Rugby team to be called the "All Blacks" when clearly they aren't. Should we ban the beer "Black Sheep" As I said before, you won't be able to fart in your own toilet soon. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Rasener Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:08 AM Why ever not. I think we need to look at the verse My wife she do disturb me when I'm laid at my ease She does as she likes and she says as she please My wife, she's a devil, she's black as the coal Give me the punch ladle, I'll fathom the bowl I read that to be in relation to the devil who is supposedly evil and its association with the colour black. Next you'll be stopping the black country being called the black country. Or stop the Scots calling a particular brand of whiskey "Black Label" Or stop calling "Black Pudding" black pudding Or stop calling "blackcurrants" blackcurrants. Maybe all colours should be banned from the English language, for fear it will offend anybody of any colour or creed. When will this ever stop. I strikes me that there are a bunch of people who deliberately look for anyway of finding something offensive in anything that mentions black. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:07 AM there are examples of racism which include violence that need to be dealt with,and are much more important. Tom Bliss makes a good point about brown/black striped faces. Vic , could you qualify ,why you would not sing that line. I dont think I would sing it either. Vic ,would you sing this. Donal OG.[Black as the coal is the heart inside me, black as the sloe is the grief that binds me,black as a bootprint in a shining hallway,twas you that blackened it forever and always], do you then exclude the word Black mail , or blackening someones name, from from your vocabulary should we stop using the word sinister,because it casts aspersions on left handed people. Vic ,where do you personally draw the line ,and could you explain,your grounds,I am not necessarily disagreeing with you,but Ithink it would be useful if you qualified your views. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: Vic Smith Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:34 AM Jeff B. wrote - "One of my songs is "Fathom the Bowl", which includes the line "my wife she's a devil and black as the coal". Should the line be changed? Discuss." I wouldn't sing that line - even though one of my all-time favourite groups, The Watersons recorded it. |
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Subject: RE: Motley Morris banned ! From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:10 AM I'd have thought black rugby-style stripes would have been sufficient if the intention is to disguise while looking as scary as possible (why is that, incidentally, is it because border steps are essentially skipping, so need to be macho'd up)? I can see that the fashion for black clothes (now why does that ring a bell here?;-) would tend to suggest black make-up, but it needn't be full face. I just noticed some molly dancers in an old newspaper - looking like, well... It's those unqualifiable images that do the damage. It's irrelevant whether people jump to wrong or right conclusions. They jump, and in their thousands. Meanwhile a few dancers manage to put their case to a handful of people - and quite a few of them won't accept it. Who benefits? Those who want to divide and rule. Tom |
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