BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans

Subject: Obit: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 12:56 PM

President Obama stated in an interview yesterday that the worst of the current recession is over. What a relief! This should be welcome news to the many unemployed in our country. I guess that might be what he meant when he campaigned on a message of hope.

Still, I have my doubts.

DougR

Subject: RE: Obit: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 12:57 PM

"Obit" slipped into the title of this thread by by gremlins.

DougR

Subject: RE: Obit: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 12:59 PM

Also, I clearly typed BS in the title! Gremlins again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 01:09 PM

Gee Doug - and I always thought you conservatives were willing to accept resposibility when they did things wrong..........:]

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 02:00 PM

?? Obama isn't a conservative - just a little right of center, is all.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 02:11 PM

The worst of the economic recession may be over, but regaining the employment percentages (it should be obvious) will take longer. So I think your obvuious sarcasm is inappropriate. He said we had reached the cellar and were coming back out--and your criticism is that we aren't on the second story yet!! Sheeshe. Furthermore, I think considering it was the gang you so fervently put into office twice that set the recession off, by encouraging rampant, irresponsible banking practices interalia, that you might be a bit more circumspect, or at least direct your bitterness toward those who caused the problem rather than those working day and night to cure it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 02:13 PM

But that would mean accepting responsibility! (never happen)

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

Doug is willing to accept that fact that the Democrats are to blame for everything. But hey - we were able to cover up the fact that Barak Obama was born in Africa instead of Hawaii....didn't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: 3refs
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:17 PM

Let's not forget that Chester A Arthur was a Canadian!!

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:18 PM

Shucks, shoot, Amos, you think my post is sarcastic? I'm shocked and greived!

I have little doubt our president will pull us out of this problem (increased taxes on those he promised would not have their taxes raised, a sur-tax on the richest folks in the country, a tax on Dr. Pepper, a tax on stuff we never dreamed would be taxed, etc. etc.) After all, that's what Democrats do, isn't it?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:31 PM

What do Republicans do, DougR?

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:33 PM

DougR;

It is not what "Democrats" do, it is what governments do. It may be your indignation is that you would prefer the system of plutocracy ripping off the large middle population of America with underhanded schemes while being protected by the wiles and guns of government. Unfortunatley, I think your kind have already demonstrated that there is something deeply rotten in that method. How soon do you think we should forget all about the mortgage scandal, the AIG bonus scandal and the other fat-cat greed-driven dishonesties that got us where we are? You think this back-slapping inside big-money game is the right way to run the country? Have you NO conscience?

How about instead we at least have an agreed-upon set of rules, which we can change through due process, and which imposes stasndards of ethics on financial operations? How about we have some transparency as to where the money is going, and who is acquiring it? How about we seek to acheive NOT just the good of a group of shareholders and executives, but a more general good for the nation, through a more rational method of balancing personalprofit and public duty? Or is the sense of public duty soimething that has evaporated in your arid view of the world?

Would you like to build a stronger country, top to bottom, or just a stronger set of wealthy aristocrats with wage-serfs in attendance and support at every hand? Come off it, Doug.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:42 PM

"...that's what Democrats do, isn't it?"


That's what everyone does.... You cannot run a country without paying for all the services and structures it needs, and I doubt you'd manage on donations!

Is there any surprise we use Willie Sutton and Robin Hood logic to GET enough money? You MUST get most of the money from those who HAVE money, and they...mostly... do not part with it easily.

The problem is, the wealthy, most of whom are conservatives, want a system that allows them to milk the 'system' with little interference (read.."no regulation"... They do this with fairy tales about 'competition' and 'job creation' and 'trickle down economics'.

   As you may guess, I am tired of Republicans chanting scary mantras about "big government" and "socialism" and "tax & spend", then doing little to help the average citizen when they GET power. They did nothing for health care from Reagan on, and they shot it down under Clinton and they are trying to stiop it under Obama, using the most sleazy tactics & lies.

Unemployment? OF COURSE there are still many unemployed! You, Doug, KNOW that "... the worst of the current recession is over." can BE true even as companies are not yet able to re-hire everyone! Do you not WANT to admit there is progress being made? Oh, yeah...right.... it wouldn't make good campaign rhetoric to say,:

"Ummm...well, yes, we Republicans and our deregulation did cause the recession, and the Democrats are doing pretty well getting us out of it..."

It would be MUCH better to say "see...the Democrats 'failed' to solve the crisis...let US back in, and we'll start where we left off."

Who, ME? Cynical?...naaawwwwww...

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 03:49 PM

Amos: I think you are getting on a rather slippery slope if you are arguing that the Obama administration is transparent. Since Obama has been president he has succeeded in TRIPLING the national debt. Bush was not as conservative, economically, as I wished him to be, but when compared to Obama in his first six months as president he has made Bush look like a piker.

If you are criticizing Republicans for the mortgage crisis, you're barking up the wrong tree. Who has controlled the Congress since 2006? Who passes bills? Who appropriates money? Why don't you give Barney Frank or Chris Dodd a call and ask them what roll they played in the mortgage crisis. About the only thing Democrats have done in recent days is look for ways to blame GWB or the Republicans for all the ills of America.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM

"Who has controlled the Congress since 2006? Who passes bills? Who appropriates money?"

Who dragged their feet when the Democrats even attempted in 2007 to do anything with the relatively slim majority they gained? The news...(*at least the news *I* watch*) was full of stories of the Republicans sabotaging every attempt to actually pass something! Just as they are voting close to 100% to keep anything meaningful from being done now!

They present no better plan, they just OPENLY talk of 'making Obama fail' so they can get back in power & return to "those hallowed days of yesteryear" where the rich get richer and the poor have no hope of health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:54 PM

Reading both sides of this argument, my biggest question is why do we not get rid of all of them and start fresh with people who have the American public's best interest at heart? Why do we keep electing these self-serving, grasping liars?

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:57 PM

Kucinich for president!

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:21 PM

Sweet dreams, Carol, sweetie!! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM

There's nobody like our boy Douggie for disinformation and arguing from ignorance.

I can't say it better than Dave Zweifel:

All of Obama�s spending so far hasn�t added as much to the national debt as did George W. Bush�s $1.3 trillion tax cut for our country�s wealthiest people � and that�s not counting the contrived war that he started.

When Bush left office he left the country with a $10.6 trillion national debt and an economy that was falling off the cliff. In fact, he began the bank bailouts several weeks before the end of his term and demanded no oversight of what they were getting.

That $10.6 trillion was more than two and a half times the debt that Bill Clinton had left him in 1993. The $4 trillion debt at the time was being whittled down by a federal budget that was actually in the black. Then along came Bush, who like Ronald Reagan before him thought he could fix the economy by spending tons on the military and cutting taxes at the same time.
Funny, but the Mitch McConnells and John Boehners of the Republican hierarchy in Congress weren�t complaining a bit about all that red ink back then.

The national debt stands at about $11.4 trillion today and unless the economy turns around quickly, which is highly doubtful, it will grown substantially larger in the coming years. Obama thinks the deficit will start coming down in a couple of years; others fear it will take much longer.

Such a huge national debt is not good, but it wasn�t good at $10.6 trillion either, especially when it was brought about by foolish tax cuts and spending close to a trillion dollars on a war in Iraq.
Today�s deficits are necessary to save the economy from plummeting even further and hurting millions more people than the millions who have already been hurt.

Perhaps the GOP thinks it can blame Obama, but the American people hopefully have longer memories.

Except Doug, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:52 PM

"Why do we keep electing these self-serving, grasping liars?"

You really wanna know? Because it is very common for those with nefarious motives to **use** lies to get themselves elected. How do you know until you give them a chance. Now, if the entire electoral process were changed so that voters had to pass a test to be allowed to vote....wait... they tried that in the South.

We do have some honest, intelligent people in Congress, who, given half a chance, would make some good decisions. Find out what THEY believe and ask which of YOUR representatives are similar.

It takes real work to find & keep good politicians...not just listening to slogans for a few weeks every 2 or four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:03 PM

And like it orr not we have an intelligent and honest man in the White House--as honest as he can be, at least.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:17 PM

The proposed increase in the income tax rate for the highest bracket will almost but not quite bring it up to where it was at at the END of Reagan's term in '88, which was satisfying enough for the richest-of-the-rich back then. Since then, the GOP and the "moderate" pro-business "New Democrats have continued to give more and more to this eleite, their wealthy owners.

I have no sympathy for those who complain that they can't make it if they have to pay one-third of their annual income OVER the first million. Not when most of us are barely making it at all.

ESPECIALLY when they use the words "income redistribution" to condemn the proposals they are resisting! We've already been having more than enough income redistribution, all of it upward, until now less than 2% of the population now controls more than 95% of the GNP.

These are the greedmongers who are paying for all the propaganda that too many of us are lapping up. Wake up!

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:44 PM

Amos: your last post would be more credible had you added IMO to your message.

If you are looking for honesty in a president, you are misplacing your trust in Obama. He lied through his teeth while campaigning. How about"If you earn less than $250,000 per year, your taxes will not increase when I am president." Or, "I will veto any Bill that comes to my desk if it is laden with pork." Or, "Every Bill submitted to me for signature will be posted on the Internet five (or maybe it was six) days so that Americans can read and understand the Bill. Or, more lately, "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it!"

Obama doesn't lie, huh?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:47 PM

He didn't lie about people being able to keep their health insurance plan if they like it. That one happens to be the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM

And Obama is apparently still standing behind his promise to not raise income taxes for the middle class, Geithner and Summers' exploratory rhetoric notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:01 PM

Obama did promise change...and I see the same corporate crooks running things.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:06 PM

Yeah. He really needs to get rid of Geithner and Summers.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:39 PM

"...I see the same corporate crooks running things. "

I don't...which ones do you mean? I'm sure 'some' have managed to get new nests, but I see a LOT of change, also.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:40 PM

Carol C: So you believe Obama when he says you can keep your health care insurance if the government establishes it's own plan?

Would you, by chance, be interested in buying some beach front property in Yuma Arizona too?

The Treasury Secretary and Obama's chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, were just softening us up for things to come.

Greg F.:I just heard on the news that due to the very bad economy, the U. S. government is going to close 1,000 post offices around the country. I'll bet if you wrote President Obama and told him you are an expert in the history of the PO, and offer to lend a hand to save all those post offices, you might be able to do your country a real service.

Something to think about anyway.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:49 PM

What health care insurance? I don't have access to any health care insurance.

However, I know that if Obama's plan doesn't succeed, everyone who currently has private health care insurance that they like will be forced to accept insurance that they don't like, and that if it does succeed, those who currently like the coverage they have will not be negatively impacted, and for anyone who thinks otherwise, I've got this swamp in Florida I'd like to sell them.

Even the Lewin group, which is the think tank all of the anti-health care reform people like to cite as evidence that private health insurance will go away, says that only about one third of people with private insurance will switch to the public option, so that leaves two thirds of the people with private insurance who will keep it. Anyone who thinks that the insurance companies will just dry up and blow away when they still have two thirds of their customer base just isn't living in reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Arkie
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 09:56 PM

So far I have not seen a serious case being made for the Bush team's policy of spend and borrow.   Only criticism of attempts to pay for government. I don't like taxes but the borrow and spend policy only led to indebtedness and devaluation of the dollar. The real key is how tax dollars are spent and what people get for that dollar.   

I would actually like to think that Republicans who actually love their country could somehow gain control of their party. The present lot spent eight years sacking the treasury while telling us little guys it is for our own good.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:49 AM

...I'll bet if you wrote President Obama and told him you are an expert in the history of the PO...

Who would have thought a jackass possessed of such incisive, rapier-like wit?

Of course, it totally ignores the question at issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 12:31 PM

Arkie: You're complaining about the Bush administration's spend and borrow policy? Obama and his merry group of left-wing Democrats are making the Bushies look like pikers! Where do you think all of the money they are spending comes from? I'll tell you, if you don't know, it's BORROWED from China!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: pdq
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 12:36 PM

They also print money and let the Federal Reserve Bank distribute it. There are 20 dollars in circulation now for each dollar 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 01:13 PM

Douggie-Boy needs to read- or re-read, this time for comprehension- the 03 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM Post, above. Assuming he can actually read, that is.

I seem to remember an epigram about "teaching a pig to sing" ....( with apologies to the porcine creation, of course)

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 03:22 PM

Is it necessary to refer to a grown man as a boy? That is terribly offensive to some men, as we know, and probably still somewhat offensive to almost all men. Of course that could be the point, but ...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 03:26 PM

At my age, I'd take it as sheer flattery!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 03:34 PM

Greg F. has a history of attacking the person who disagrees with him, rather than attacking their argument.

He must nat have any confidence that his facts will stand up under examination.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 03:53 PM

Untrue, BB - I attack cupidity, lies, bombast and preposterous assertions.

If a particular individual continually demonstrates these particular and related attributes, then as they say in Philadelphia: "That's On Him!"

There's little point in wasting facts, and breath, and time on someone who hs no use for 'em.

vide the singing pig.

----------------
mg: thanks, Mommy, from Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 04:52 PM

" I attack cupidity, lies, bombast and preposterous assertions. "

So, you are one of those self-hating individuals...


It seems like your posts make more effort at attacking people than the ideas they present. That says a lot about you, not about those you disagree with. And little of it positive.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:18 PM

Sigh. Right back atcha, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:31 PM

pdq, BeardedBruce: I don't pay any attention to Greg F's posts. He has been on my case for years. Whatever makes him happy.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 07:59 AM

I don't pay any attention to Greg F's posts.

Oh? Then why do you respond to 'em? Yet another lie; no surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 12:49 PM

I don't always reply, Greg. I do only when I absolutely cannot think of any thing else to do.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 01:05 PM

It's probably true that any half-decent public health plan will eventually put the current gang of insurers out of business. However, for right now, any legistation that could possibly pass Congress will be a compromise allowing the status quo to carry on for those who are happy with it now.

It would seem logical that any public (non-profit) setup would have an economic advatage over businesses that need to add profits to all the other costs of providing care. But at first, the government will be shouldering the extra burden of providing for all the least-healthy among us, who are unable to find coverage under the current conditions.

It'll probably take a couple of decades for private health insurance to gradually lose its market. We should all find ways to adjust ourselves in the meantime. By then, we should no longer be burdened with the most expensive and least effective health-care system in the industrialized world.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 01:11 PM

If that were the case, there would be no private insurance in the UK. But there is private insurance in the UK, so we know that both public and private health care programs can exist side by side.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:18 PM

PoppaGator: I agree with much that you say. I don't believe private insurers can compete with a federal program any more than a private automobile manufacturer could compete with a federally run one. And I agree it would probably take some time before the private companies went out of business.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: DougR
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:23 PM

Carol C: I would like to address your post but I really don't know much about private operated insurers in Great Britain. I'll do some research on it. Honestly, I cannot imagine why, those who can have the service for "free' would go with a private company there. Based on most of the posts from those who are covered by their single payer provider, they have the perfect system and no private company should be able to compete.

I'll address the question in the Health Care thread though.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: pdq
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:27 PM

"...it would probably take some time before the private companies went out of business."

Maybe so, but immediately after a bill is passed that will eventually put them out of business, their stocks will collapse. The professional investors will be out in time, but the private citizens-investors will lose their retirement money.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 07:09 PM

Maybe so, but immediately after a bill is passed that will eventually put them out of business, their stocks will collapse.

Give it up, already. This has been repeatedly shown to be bullshit by the experience of other countries like Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:03 PM

Would someone who lives in the UK be willing to answer the question of why people there would want private insurance in a country that has the NHS?

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:14 PM

Yeah, when was the last time you heard anyone from Europe saying' "Geeze, I want to move the States so I can get health care"???

As for the unemployment??? Yeah, it's a purdy meesed up deal that Obma inherited from Bush, isn't it, Dougie???

I mean, let's get real... On Day One of the Obama administration the #1 job was to prevent the country from falling into an economic abyss... Historian will get it right that... Just as Obama did...

Look, Dougie... I'm not blaming just Bush... Clinton and Bush I also went along with the deregulation/voodoo econmics of Ronnie Raygun...

Now it's tie to clean up a 30 year clusterf*ck that Raygun started...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM

So I am gathering, from posts made on the other thread about health care, that the reason they can have both national health care and private insurance in the UK is pretty much the same reason some people buy Fords and others by Jaguars. They both get around just fine and do the job that is needed, but one of them has more bells and whistles, for those who can afford them.

This is a very good system because it means that those who would have no choice whatever (like the almost fifty million people in the US who don't have access to health care) will have at least one choice, and those who can afford to can have many choices, which is also better than what we have here, because most people in the US who have insurance are not able to choose who provides their coverage.

It's a better system by every measure.

Subject: RE: BS: Good News for Unemployed Americans
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 11:16 AM

Obama Admin Issues 'Down Payment' on Electric Cars, Batteries

   

A $2.4 billion grant program has renewed hope that a U.S. industry in electric cars and the batteries to propel them won't be hopelessly stuck behind foreign competitors.

The grants ...were billed as the largest auto-battery investment ever. The funds will be split among 48 projects throughout the supply chain, from developing batteries to building manufacturing plants to demonstrating actual vehicles.

Observers hailed the grants as a "down payment" for an industry that, in truth, isn't too far behind its overseas rivals and that could make a profound reduction in U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.

"We're at the beginning of a very large opportunity," said Brian Wynne, president of the Electric Drive Transportation Association. "There's a choke point here. The choke point is the availability of automotive-grade batteries. That choke point is worldwide. That's not a U.S. phenomenon."

...
Mark Duvall, director of electric transportation for the Electric Power Research Institute, a utility-funded think tank, said the funding will drive projects pushed to the sidelines by the recession.

"In this economy, to come up with that type of cost-matching for other investments would be almost impossible," he said. EPRI's project wouldn't have likely taken place without the funding, he said.

EPRI will join the South Coast Air Quality Management District in Southern California to develop 350 plug-in hybrid trucks. By the time all the trucks are built, Duvall said, they should know enough to have them ready for commercial sale.

There are potentially bigger effects in store. Major battery producers Johnson Controls Inc. and A123 Systems Inc. will channel their grants -- $300 million and $250 million -- into parts for hybrid and electric cars. Both companies are leading the American efforts to develop a lithium-ion battery, the technology currently considered to have the qualities needed to produce a car at large scale.
..." NYT