Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 03:18 PM

Thanks, I learned something here.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:58 PM

Alhough already 'well kent', Sir Walter Scott quoted the "chevalier" chorus line in print as part of his famous Waverley papers/novels. Musical sketches based on Scott started to be performed on stage and in the 1820's, 'Charlie' seems to just explode in popularity. Part of the mythologising and Jacobite romanticism in the Regency-early Victorian period?

There are probably loads of heavy dissertations on that subject.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 07:59 AM

Oops sorry TB already posted that!!!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 07:53 AM

This link below shows all three versions by Burns, Nairn and Hogg. The Lady Nairn version has the first and second verse pretty much as in the pre- Burnsian version with the third, fourth and fifth verses being added.

http://chrsouchon.free.fr/ocharlie.htm

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 05:00 AM

The French translation looks just about unsingable, fitted to the familiar tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 04:36 AM

Another analysis here comparing all 3 texts, ( + French translations if you want them!) as well as notes on the tune, including reference to Clarke. ( can't get the midis to play for me).
http://chrsouchon.free.fr/ocharlie.htm

I also remember singing this in my Suffolk primary school (in the 1950s!), but pretty sure it was Lady Nairne's version, as I don't think Burns' would have been allowed!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 04:15 AM

In the context of the 19th century folk fashion among wealthy Scotsmen, who aspired for the prestige of "pan-European" highbrow culture as well, we must not forget to mention Beethoven's arrangement commissioned by those. Discussed elsewhere on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 04:08 AM

There are two versions of the tune, which Gore labels "old set" and "modern set". Googling "scots musical museum charlie is my darling" will get you a facsimile of the old one:

http://www.burnsscotland.com/items/v/volume-v,-song-428,-page-440-charlie-hes-my-darling.aspx

The differences are mainly in the refrain.

Maybe Stephen Clarke wrote the tune?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:41 AM

I've got a copy of "The Songs Of Scotland Prior To Burns" which was published by W&R Chambers in 1862. It claims that the song in a different version was first published in Johnson's Museum (ie that is the Burns lyric so dated between 1787 and 1796) and that the original is probably not that much older.

The original it gives consists of the chorus and both the first and last verse as used by Burns and sung in this youtube clip plus one other verse.........

"As he came walking up the street
The pipes played loud and clear
The young and auld cam out to greet
The Young Chevalier"

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:20 AM

I'm with Alan Ross. Reader is singing the Robert Burns version here! Lady Nairn's version uses only the first verse and chorus of the Burns' lyric but the rest of her song is completely different. Hogg uses the first verse and chorus then again the rest is different but closer to the Burns' version than Nairn is. Burns was dead a good 20 to 30 years before these other versions were published by Hogg and Nairn. Hogg's notes states his version is altered from the original and that it was taken from hearing a woman singing it. As per the other two Burns wrote lyrics but also collected and often altered existing lyrics so it could be older still than him.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Alan Ross
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 01:42 AM

Go back don't forget Burns here!

Also, in one way it reflects the rise of 19th century Music Theatre and the 'Walter Scott" syndrome. After Walter Scott, there's an explosion of its use - especially in the 1820's in character dramas and theatre productions that toured from one part of the country to another (and Ireland).   I had a look at newspaper pages - and it just suddenly takes off. One mention in the early 1800's then hundreds of stage uses from the 1820's.

Then the piano music editions and other arrangements make it a parlour favourite.   

In 1841 Charles Dickens visited Scotland and the band played 'Charlie is my darling' to which the audience heartily sang along.   

In my day (old fogey of 51) It was part of our standard school music books, but I don't know if it's still there! Do they even have Music lessons? (rhetorical)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 08:31 PM

According to Charlie Gore's Scottish Fiddle Tune Index, the tune was first published (as an instrumental) in the fourth volume of Gow's Repository in the 1830s. I presume there was a song sheet version a bit before that.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 08:05 PM

The Scottish Songs site says "This well-known song about those times attributed to both James Hogg, the Ettrick Shepherd, who lived from 1770 to 1835 and Carolina Oliphant (Lady Nairnie) who lived from 1766-1845. As both these writers took traditional works and improved them, it may that neither of them wrote the original."

I have difficulty believing the tune to the song could be that old. Regardless of whether one likes or dislikes Reader's style, the tune does not sound like a traditional Scots melody to my ears, but rather like a 19th century music hall confection. Opinions?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 03:21 PM

Yes, the usual tune but with "Reader" variations and twiddles: the instrumental bits in between stray further from the tune, or use different tunes in same key.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 09:36 AM

Reader is basically singing the standard tune with her usual added bum notes.

Cringeworthy as always. I made it through one verse before hitting the little red X.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:16 AM

Sounds pretty "music hall" to me, not so much trad Scots.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 12:40 AM

What tune does Eddi Reader use for this song? Is this the traditional melody?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTAyVD7h_oY

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 07:33 PM

Hogg's Jacobite Reliques (1821) gives two versions of the song - 'modern' and 'original'. Both of them give 'young chevalier'.
It may have nothing to do with the song but Chambers Scots Dictionary defines the word as 'a favourite son', which fits into the sense of the song.
On the other hand - from the chapter on Kelly From Killane in John McLaughlin's 'One Green hill:
"Shelmalier (or Shelmaliere), Siol Maoluidhir ('place of the descendants of Maolughra'), East and West, are baronies to the north and west of Wexford town. Forth and Bargy are also barony names and lie to the south and west of Wexford.
The term 'barony' was the old name for the territorial division of counties and fell into disuse about a hundred years ago. Within the thirty-two counties of Ireland there are two hundred and seventy-three baronies, then further subdivided into parishes and local areas called 'townlands', originally based on land owned by extended families. In 1798 regiments and other military groupings were often distinguished by the name of the barony that they came from, e.g. the Scarawalsh units, the Shelmalier Cavalry, the Gorey Yeomen, etc."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:10 PM

Omigod! my dad used to sing this! and he definitely sang "chevalier"..... ooo brings back memories.....

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 03:39 PM

Chevalier is correct - as written by the song's lyricist Lady Nairne, born Carolina Oliphant, 1766 -1845. Her parents were disappointed that she wasn't a boy but they named her after Bonnie Prince anyway.

'When Charlie came tae oor toun', could this refer to Bonnie Prince Charlie's visit to Gascon Hall, (Perthshire) the home of Lady Nairne, in 1745, bearing in mind the old Scots meaning of 'toun'?

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 03:17 PM

Nigel - a great wee satire!!

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 10:54 AM

Another wee point: I don't think 'Charlie' is the diminutive of the English word 'Charles'. The Gaelic for Charles is Tearlach pronouced 'cherla' (almost).

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Amergin
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:18 AM

Alan Reid recorded a wonderful cd called the Rise and Fall o' Charlie...he sings chevalier....

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 06:57 AM

Shelmalier is an area in Wexford, a county that was prominent in the Irish rebellion of 1798. It was presumably Kelly From Killane's home area.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:58 AM

PS see also Charlie

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:53 AM

Bonnie Prince Charlie was the son of James Francis Edward who was the son of James the Vll of Scotland, and was proclaimed the Chevalier of St George, hence Charlie would be the 'young Chevalier'.
Shelmalier is an area of County Wexford in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Ringer
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:07 AM

I think you may be right, curmudgeon, re Kelly the Boy from Killane. Oh dear: not only an awful memory, but I'm also mixing up songs... mind you, the tradition has always done that, hasn't it?

Thanks, all contributors.

OK: in KTBFK, what does "Shelmalier" mean there? Is it a proper name? Is is the name for someone who carries a long gun? What?

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:49 PM

I would always get very red in the face when this song was song at my parents' parties, given that my first name is "Charley."

I haven't heard the song sung in decades and now I kind of miss it.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Girl Friday
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:32 PM

Our Ben was in the band. He's third from right at the back.

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 01:00 PM

Back in 1987 Darling came to town
In twenty years he took the reins
Replacing Gordon Brown

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

His eyebrows dark and saturnine,
His hair a shining white
He's changed his main house sev'ral times
There's something not quite right.

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

He doesn't set the interest rates
'Cos that's done by the bank
But when the price of beer goes up
It's him we have to thank

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

He lets his comrades cook the books,
Change houses on a whim.
Buy women's clothes, or dirty films,
It doesn't bother him.

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 12:59 PM

Surely Chevallier & Cavalier are the same (French & English) for one who rides a horse.
Similarly "Chevallier de la table ronde" (a drinking song) is effectively "Knights of the round table"

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 12:42 PM

I think there must have been a recording that had "cavalier", as that's the way I remember it from England in the Fifties. It's obviously wrong, but maybe somebody thought "cavalier" would be better understood in England.

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 11:52 AM

My mum used to sing

Charlie is my darling
The day he bought a house.


Came from the 30's

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:12 AM

My mother (born 1918) used to end it with 'cavalier.'

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Alice
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:03 AM

Ringer, I learned it as the young Chevalier, and it's the only way I've heard it. Jean Redpath recorded it... Chevalier is the way she sings it, too.

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: evansakes
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 09:43 AM

I can't be any help in answering your question but the singer you heard was Eddi Reader and she was performing the song at Cambridge Folk Festival.

While Eddi was at Cambridge she also took part in a workshop with some young people and they worked on Charlie is My Darling.

The results were pretty impressive as you can see from the video at this link

Subject: RE: Charlie Is My Darling
From: curmudgeon
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 09:35 AM

I think that you may be confusing it with the first verse of Kelley, the Boy From Killane,

"What's the news? What's the news? O my bold Shelmalier,
With your long-barrelled gun, of the sea?"

The "Young Chevalier" was a fairly common title for the ne'er-do-well who was also known as the "Young Pretender."

Subject: Charlie Is My Darling
From: Ringer
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 09:13 AM

I was listening to Mike Harding on my car radio last night as I drove to ringing practice. A Glasgow girl (whose name I didn't catch) sang Charlie is my Darling, and she sang the last bit of the chorus as "the young Chevalier." The DT, similarly, has "Chevalier."

Now, I first learned that song from Singing Together, a BBC schools programme (11:00am on Monday mornings) then hosted by William Appleby, in about 1955. And I'm sure that then we sang the last line as "the young Shelmalier." Not sure about the spelling, and not sure either whether it was every chorus or just the last time, but I'm very clear about the pronounciation: shell-ma-leer. I can't find the word in my dictionary, though, under any conceivable spelling.

Is my memory letting me down (as it does sometimes -- my wife says frequently -- these days), or is there an alternative?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Charlie is My Darling'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:56 PM

From the Levy collection:

Title: O Charlie is My Darling.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na
Publication: Baltimore: John Cole, n.d..

Title: Charlie is My Darling. A Popular Scotch Song.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na
Publication: Philadelphia: Geo. Willig, n.d..

The Caledonian Quadrille. (1) We're a' Noddin'; (2) The Lass O'Gowrle; (3) Kenmure's On and Awa'; (4) Charlie is My Darling; (5) Duncan Gray; (6) John Anderson My Joe; (7) Scots Wha Hae Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: Composed by Jullien.
Publication: London]: Jullien & Co., Royal Musical Conservatory, Circulating Library, 214 Regent St., & 45 King St., n.d..

From John Greig's Scots Minstrelsie, vol. 2.
"O Charlie Is My Darling!"
p. 133
p. 134
p. 135

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Charlie is My Darling'
From: GUEST,Sammie
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for all of your help guys, I found this really excellent website that has many folk/traditional songs:http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk

Oh and I was having trouble with the short bit after the verse, but I figured it out. :)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Charlie is My Darling'
From: Artful Codger
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:10 PM

A tab might be lurking around here somewhere under the title "Charlie He's My Darling".

There's nothing wanky about the harmony that I can think of. What key are you using and what bit is giving you trouble?

Jean Redpath did a great version of this on "Songs of Robert Burns, Vol. 1".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Charlie is My Darling'
From: MMario
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

available for purchase via sunhawk

Subject: Tune Req: 'Charlie is My Darling'
From: GUEST,Sammi
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 03:47 PM

Hello,
    I am new here and this is a really good website, nice work! I was just wondering if any of you folks know the guitar TABS for a favorite song of mine, "Charlie is My Darling". I tried to work it out, but it won't come out right.
Any help?

Thanks,
    Sammie.