Liverpool Folk Club 1970

Subject: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:49 AM

I'm trying to recall the name of a Liverpool Folk Music Club that existed around 1970. It was in the city centre, off Lime St and close to St George's Hall. The pub it was situated in ( which, I think, gave the club its name) disappeared as part of the St John's Precinct (and adjacent areas) redevelopment scheme. There used to be a session in the main bar and a sing-around in a room which, if my memory serves me well, was decorated in bamboo. It was held on a Saturday night - and the toilets were a disgrace!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM

Wasn't it simply The Traditional Club?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:13 AM

The Monastry?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:16 AM

The session was called the Mersey Traditional Gathering. Unfortunately, the name of the pub has gone out of my head. If it comes back I'll repost it. The pub in fact deserves some sort of memorial because it was just opposite the Royal Court Theatre, and the bar was adorned with photographs of old time music hall turns. Rumour has it that Spike Milligan came into the session one night and sang a song. I also recall a mirror down the far end of the bar, which bore the legend "Smoke Butterfly Cigarettes".

In any event, the session operated there from the mid to late 60s, when the pub closed for redevelopment. From there we moved to the Trawler on the Dock Road and from there to the Hare and Hounds on Commutation Row, after which the session petered out.

You were right about the bamboo room and the awful toilets. In fact the whole pub was in a state of massive decrepitude. But the session functioned as a singaround, with occasional booked guests, and operated a policy of (largely unaccompanied) traditional songs only. It was that more than anything which first whetted my appetite for the raw bar.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:18 AM

By God, it's a rare thing to hear from Big J these days. How are you doing these days, John?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:28 AM

wasn't the pub called the Victoria?
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:13 AM

The Victoria sounds about right Derek, singaround was run mainly by Tony Wilson. The Vic was one of the few places you could buy fresh Newcastle Brown Ale in Liverpool, I think Tony saw to that as he drank so much of it ;) There was a BBC link a while back on here to a programme about Liverpool, Tony appears in an early shot, drinking (presumably) a pint of Newkee Brown. Whilst the (mainly) unaccompanied singing went on in the 'Bamboo Room' the bar was usually host to a mottly band of musicians led by Bernie Davis (sp?)playing Orange marching tunes, hornpipes and the odd jig, these musicians aquired the name 'Mable's Own Ceili Band' I think referring to the landlady of the Vic.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:03 PM

Derek Schofield:- wasn't the pub called the Victoria?

I believe it was, Derek. I had the Victoria in my mind when posting my earlier message. But I thought I might have been getting confused, because we eventually moved to another Victoria. That was in Canning Place, the very spot where Maggie May was seen cruising.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:11 PM

Yes, it was the Vic. I remember singing in the bamboo room, how could I forget. A bizarre experience!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:04 AM

Fred, I would like to say that I'm a shadow of my former self, however no such luck!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:42 AM

BigJ. A shadow of your former self? Well, you still put the rest of us in the shade, literally and figuratively. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:09 AM

I remember seeing The Yetties in the Bamboo Room, and being very taken with their use of a little side drum. It seemed, to me, like a very novel innovation at the time. A poster above mention Bernie Davis, and I remember being very impressed with the fact that Bernie always seemed to be really enjoying himself at those sessions.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:06 AM

Wasn't it also at the 'Customs House' Canning st, for some time. An amazing pub with a collection of sailors caps (including one from the Scharnhorst autographed by some of the survivours), & the ceiling was coved by draped flags (covered in a deep layer of dust).
Cheers
Les (on laptop)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:25 AM

God, I am getting confused. The 'Victoria' which I said was in Canning Place was in fact the Custom House which LesB mentions. That particular venue however was not part of the Mersey Traditional Gathering chain, which started at the St Johns Victoria, subsequently moving to the Trawler on the Dock Road, before running out of steam at the Hare and Hounds.

Some years later, people started congregating in the Custom House on a Thursday night. No songs or music, just a social get together. Then, I think, Frank MacCall decided to start a singaround there on a Saturday, which was the night on which the MTG used to meet.

When the Custom House closed, the pub management and the session moved to a pub which was universally known as Oily Joe's, being just round the corner from Oil Street. I think the proper name of that one must have been the Victoria.

Now, if I could only remember where I put the alzheimers tablets.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:54 AM

When you find your tablets,Fred, you can share them with me LOL. Wasn't the Custom House known as Ma Boyles, or has my memory failed me altogether?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:56 AM

Talking about Bernie Davis, I remember being in the folk club that used to be in Dale St near the tunnel entrance ( 1970s?); anyway, Bernie was on the stage asking for floorsingers. He spotted Godfrey Boardman standing by the door. " Come on Godrey", said Bernie, "give us a song". Godfrey just smiled. Bernie continued, "It's all right Godfrey, you can bring the door with you!". Godfrey, for those who don't know, has been a fixture of the Liverpool folk scene forever! He is either working by the door ( i.e. handling entrance money) or simply standing by it. Strangely, I've known Godfey for over 40 years, and I'm still not sure if he even likes folk music!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:03 AM

terrier: "Wasn't the Custom House known as Ma Boyles, or has my memory failed me altogether?"

The Custom House wasn't. In fact Ma Boyle's is down behind St Nick's church near the Pier Head. What's now puzzling me is that the Poste House in Cumberland Street used to be a session venue, and it had a nickname similar to Ma Boyle's. Could it have been Mabel's, and was that where Mabel's Ceilidh Band took its name?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:09 AM

I lived in Liverpool for a few months in 1970/71. I remember attending a folk club, in a pub, in the city centre (I couldn't tell you now which pub it was). I recall that it was run by a bloke called Tony Wilson (?) and he had a sidekick called Bernard (?) I remember them as great singers and very welcoming. Three guests that I remember were Roy Harris, Bob Davenport and Mike Harding.

I'm afraid that the details are very hazy now - 38/39 years is a long time! What sticks in my mind, though, is that this was my first time living away from home but I could walk into a folk club and meet new people almost straight away - and it's still possible to do that today (just about).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:14 AM

Tunesmith, was that pub called The Mitre,Dale St. It was on the top floor, L shaped room, which meant if it was full, some of the audience couldn't see who was performing :)
Fred, I seem to remember something like Mabel's Own GPO Ceili..etc. That might tie in with your recollection of the Poste House.
Back to the MTG, another name I remember was Ian Macmillan(sp?) who used to run the nights at the Vic if Tony wasn't there, also memories of a young Willie Russell making his mark so to speak.
Remember M.F.R.A. and the Bristol bus?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:52 AM

Schantieman'll know.

sal

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Les B (on laptop)
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 01:10 PM

The 'Mitre' is now called 'The Ship & Mitre', and is Liverpools best cask ale pub. Godfrey is still on the door at Bothy Folk Club , where he has been for the last 40 odd yrs.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 01:13 PM

By the way if anybody wants to see Godfrey or any of the Southport / Liverpool mob, the Elsinor during Whitby Folk Week is the place to find them.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Schantieman
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

Sadly, I don't know - I'm a necomer to the Liverpool/Southport folk scene, having arrived a mere 25 years ago.   I have sung in the Ship and Mitre, however.

As far as I know, the only regular club in the city now is on Tuesday evening in the Everyman Theatre, downstairs in the 'Third Room'. It's run by Christine Jones (and Hughie is the main resident) and others.


Steve (who's home, briefly, from various floaty things)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:08 PM

terrier: "Fred................. another name I remember was Ian Macmillan(sp?) who used to run the nights at the Vic if Tony wasn't there, also memories of a young Willie Russell making his mark so to speak."

Correct. Tony Wilson, later Molyneux, died several years ago, sadly. Ian MacMillan is still around, although he's more into real ale these days. Willie Russell. What ever happened to him? Guess he just kinda faded away and never amounted to anything much :-)

"Remember M.F.R.A. and the Bristol bus?" Do I ever. I used to maintain that bus, which is probably why it never got more than two miles down the road without breaking down. Towards the end, after MacMillan, Wilson and Paddy Doody decided they'd had enough, my role in MFRA became so complicated that I used to claim FRED stood for Fixtures, Research and Engineering Department. I used to drive the damned thing as well, which was great fun when it rained because the cab used to let in water like a leaky sieve.

BTW., MFRA stood for Merseyside Folklore Research Association, research being a big buzz word in those days.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:00 PM

I knew Paddy had died some years ago but I hadn't heard of Tony leaving us,very sad, a real character and sadly missed. Ah! Memories :) It's a nice thread, thanks for the info.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

This talk brings back memories for me.. anyone remember a club along the Dock road going towards Huskison Dock?? Used to remember if you walked into the pub, one went down a few steps!! You could walk it from the Pier Head (As I did in younger days).
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:19 AM

The Singaround in the Vic was amazing. It moved to the Hare & Hounds and then to The Customs House loosing something or other on the way.

Tony Wilson called a meeting at some point when the Vic closed and suggested all present go on a pub crawl and find a room for the 'Liverpool Folk Club' - a club that would have a collection of residents and book guests of a generally traditional nature - Saturady night in Liverpool City Centre. The result was the Mitre - the L shaped Room that Tom terrier refers to above.

Much fun

L in C
who sang a number of times at all of the above

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Lesb
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:52 AM

The room upstairs at the Mitre was on a level with the flyover & many a time there was much merriment/consternation, when halfway through a song the fire engines would put their sirens on as they passed by at window level, (the station was just round the corner).
The 'Ship & Miter' as it's now called, is one of the best places to get a good pint in Liverpool. We (Southport Swords) dance inside there once or twice a year.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:23 PM

Scouse, you're going quite a way down river to Huskisson Dock, past Nelson Dock and Bramley More Dock. both the latter had Irish session pubs, also, on Derby road there was The Cottage, another session pub. I don't remember anything around Huskisson.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:46 AM

Just spotted this thread and can confirm all that's been clarifying over its course. Def. The Victoria in St. Johns Lane, and the Mitre it was, on the top floor. Yeh, Customs House too and the other Victoria nicknamed Oily Joes. The Cross Keys too round the back of the Stadium was a late-'70s Thursday club and John Howson was once involved in another - The Vines on Lime Street. btw Godfrey Boardman still does the door for us at Southport's Bothy. Wouldn't be the same without him!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:53 AM

Sorry Les, hadn't noticed you'd already flagged up Godfrey's Bothy connection!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:01 AM

Clive. In fact the Cross Keys and the Vines were different venues for the same club.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM

Yes Fred - you're right. Wasn't it termed the Liverpool Traditional Club? I recall Tony Gibbons and Shay Black being residents at the former and Tony once berating the audience by saying something along the lines of "you don't just come here to be entertained, you come to be educated." Can't remember what triggered that one!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:45 AM

I'm not usually much of a catter but this one has got the old grey matter engaged! What about the Baltic Fleet club that Frank McCall and Helen were involved in - I've got a recording that Stan Ambrose did from there and broadcast on Folk Scene (BBC Radio Merseyside) Also the 'Backyard' club at the Excelsior on Fridays? Again the McCalls were prime movers.
I was briefly a resident at the latter and tried to fix up some stage lighting until someone complained it was too bright and too showbiz. They were probably right and I dismantled it after one week!!!! I think the most memorable night there was with Len Graham and Skylark.
Helen Hebden used to run a singaround in the Ship and Mitre's 1st floor art deco room for a number of years with Les and Chris Trennery. Stop me if I'm boring you all now!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

One memorable night in the Vic, when the Dubliners were doing a gig the same night at the Royal Court, Luke Kelly wandered into the club during their gig interval and asked if it was all right if he sang a song. Of course it was! I can't for the life of me remember what he sang, but I remember being impressed by what a very nice man he was, and that he'd particularly sought out an informal club night when he could have just stayed with the rest of the band in the theatre.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Clive. Wasn't it termed the Liverpool Traditional Club.

Liverpool Traditional Folk Club (I think that gives it its name in full) was the Cross Keys/Vines venue. I remember getting extremely annoyed at one regular audience member, you can probably guess who I mean, for not telling me Kevin Mitchell had played there the previous Thursday. I was living away from Liverpool but used to go there on a Thursday for a night school course and could easily have made the second half. "I forgot", he said. How the hell could you forget a thing like that?

As far as I can remember Tony Wilson wasn't involved with the LTFC, but he was a resident at the Mitre club, which I think was just called the Liverpool folk club. I remember Bob Davenport and Tom Anderson, the Shetland fiddle player, guesting there on the same night.

I also remember the whistle player from the Dubliners (name forgotten) turning up one night so drunk that he played the whistle while literally sliding down the wall.

I also remember Mr. Fox doing a gig there once in the very upstairs room, but that's another story.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:02 AM

Who were the Choir Boys who ran a club on a boat in the docks?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:24 AM

The Crofters. Before they moved to the Clubship Landfall (the boat in the docks), they had a club in the Central Hotel, Birkenhead.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:36 AM

The Crofters? Mmmmmmmmmm doesn't ring a bell (second Mate) but I guess that's right.

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:16 AM

Fred, the whistle player from The Dubliners would have been the late Ciaran Bourke.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 09:47 AM

'ullo again dears. I think the Clubship Landfall is still there - barely afloat and a rusting hulk, somewhere near Bramley Moor dock. Would just like to say that there is another Folk Club, (and far be it for me to define what constitutes a 'Folk Club'!) in Liverpool -run by Jacqui McDonald of "and Bridie" fame, once a month at Sefton Park Cricket Club. I haven't been, though maybe I should? I had a fine old time MCing her at last year's Liverpool Shanty Festival - always an entertaining and engaging performer.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM

I was talking to Jacqui a few weeks ago at Taffy Thomas's 60th birthday in the Lake District, where she now lives. If Taffy ever appeared at any of the clubs mentioned, he would have been a teenager or twenty-something! where did all those years go???
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM

Jerry O'Reilly. "Fred, the whistle player from The Dubliners would have been the late Ciaran Bourke."

Hi Jerry. Quite correct. I just couldn't think of his name.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:34 AM

Help!!! I've just found three membership cards of Folkclubs in Liverpool 1. Atlantic House Friday Folk Club. 2 The Yankee Clipper Folk Club and 3 Adrian House Folk Club. I can remember the first two but where was the third?? Antone remember???

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:41 AM

Google tells me that Adrian House was a hostel for Catholics passing through Liverpool ... was it a Jacqui and Bridie club?
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:55 AM

There was a club out in Aigburth which used to meet on a Tuesday in a Catholic club. I think that might have been Adrian House. To my knowledge Jacqui and Bridie were never involved.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 12:07 PM

I have a piece of archive that I've long treasured. A small orange-backed booklet published by Mersey & Deeside District of EFDSS in 1972 (as the redoubtable Miss Anderson was retiring to be superseded by the Northern Regional Organiser). It has a Performers Index - listing Soloists, Bands and callers, Clubs, Customs. Everything the fledgling enthusiast could wish.
Period adverts abound; - Merseyside Folklore Research Association, mentioned earlier in this thread (Vice-President A.L. Lloyd)- a Club at 'The Yankee Clipper' in Temple Street where I saw Cliff Aungier once, Mike Harding (pudding tickler & maggot breeder). Strewth!
EFDSS annual membership was £3 per individual, and Derek if you don't have a copy, you're welcome to have a butcher's next week!!!!   
PS
According to this priceless document, Adrian House's Organiser was John Davies with Residents, The Kings Shilling - that'll be John, with Frank McCall and John Cornett then. I think Tony Rosney was involved at some stage and also Keith Myers, who'll be supping a pint of Strongarm in the 'Elsinore' Whitby, this time next Monday!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM

Scouse - Adrian House was in Sandringham Drive, L'pool 17 (just off Aigburth Road I think)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 01:05 PM

The 43 Club, 43 Catherine Street, Tuesday nights?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Poem 64 of 230: LIVERPOOL

Caught a train, along a long-used line,
    From Manchester to Liverpool.
On that day the weather was fine:
    Sunny - just a little bit cool.
There, I purchased a Walkabout Guide,
    Marked some sights, and headed outside.

As usual when first at such a place,
    I walked to the main art-gallery,
The central mall, and the garden space;
    Then headed down to the wide Mersey.
There, from ferry, I viewed the skyline -
    A good sturdy cityscape, for mine.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
(C) David Franks 2003