BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:32 AM

I know the knuckle dragging troll is on a wind up about the legal action and the various associations. But it is important for people to understand the reasons for this. Thanks Gervase, you are quite right about the NBPA, as I have pointed out here before.

It is essential to understand the legislation. Various sections of the Race Relations Act deal with different types of organisations and areas of public life. For the purposes of the act, political parties fall under S.25 - associations not covered elsewhere and particulary not covered by S.11 (trade unions). There are exemptions (in S.26) for some associations. S. 25 and S. 26 appear below
---------------------------

25 Discrimination: associations not within s. 11.

(1)This section applies to any association of persons (however described, whether corporate or unincorporate, and whether or not its activities are carried on for profit) if—.
(a)it has twenty-five or more members; and.
(b)admission to membership is regulated by its constitution and is so conducted that the members do not constitute a section of the public within the meaning of section 20(1); and.
(c)it is not an organisation to which section 11 applies.

(2)It is unlawful for an association to which this section applies, in the case of a person who is not a member of the association, to discriminate against him—.
(a)in the terms on which it is prepared to admit him to membership; or.
(b)by refusing or deliberately omitting to accept his application for membership..

(3)It is unlawful for an association to which this section applies, in the case of a person who is a member or associate of the association, to discriminate against him—.
(a)in the way it affords him access to any benefits, facilities or services, or by refusing or deliberately omitting to afford him access to them; or.
(b)in the case of a member, by depriving him of membership, or varying the terms on which he is a member; or.
(c)in the case of an associate, by depriving him of his rights as an associate, or varying those rights; or.
(d)in either case, by subjecting him to any other detriment..

(4)For the purposes of this section—.
(a)a person is a member of an association if he belongs to it by virtue of his admission to any sort of membership provided for by its constitution (and is not merely a person with certain rights under its constitution by virtue of his membership of some other association), and references to membership of an association shall be construed accordingly;.
(b)a person is an associate of an association to which this section applies if, not being a member of it, he has under its constitution some or all of the rights enjoyed by members (or would have apart from any provision in its constitution authorising the refusal of those rights in particular cases)..


26 Exception from s. 25 for certain associations.

(1)An association to which section 25 applies is within this subsection if the main object of the association is to enable the benefits of membership (whatever they may be) to be enjoyed by persons of a particular racial group defined otherwise than by reference to colour; and in determining whether that is the main object of an association regard shall be had to the essential character of the association and to all relevant circumstances including, in particular, the extent to which the affairs of the association are so conducted that the persons primarily enjoying the benefits of membership are of the racial group in question..

(2)In the case of an association within subsection (1), nothing in section 25 shall render unlawful any act not involving discrimination on the ground of colour.
-----------------------

Now I have to do some work, will come back to this later if anyone is unsure why the BNP are not a S.26 association and why the others in the troll's email are.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM

"Forgetting the cut'n'paste knuckle-dragger for a moment"
- Gervase Webb

By the very nature of your response, you're not forgetting about the "knuckle-dragger" aren't you? You're addressings one of the topics of the original posting.

Anyway....when you've had a life time of in your face racism because of your skin colour and your ethnic background, then come and talk to me, and tell me how to react to the BNP's followers/toadies/members.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:54 AM

Well troll here is the first page of the Black Police Association's website.

Welcome to the National Black Police Association
The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:03 PM

Royston you are under the assumption that our pet troll has an attention span great enough read your entire posting, the reality that said troll has the attention span of a gnat.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms
will apologise to the first gnat I meet today.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:43 PM

Hello lastest (brainless) guest....

For your information to discuss anything in parliament you have to be an elected MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:48 PM

Excellent list you posted there baldrick. It isn't exactly what some here wish to see, but the truth sometimes hurts.

Three cheers for you from Middle England.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

So, just to finish off that Race Relations Act business,

The BNP is a membership association, not covered by other sections of the act, and has over 25 members.

It cannot discriminate against membership applications on the grounds of colour.

A constitution which, as it does, sets out a definition of acceptable members as [to cut a long story short] white skinned is unlawful.

They cannot claim that they are only an association of defined ethnic(non-colour identified) people because they do not screen applicants at a DNA level, which is the only way to prove your eligibility for membership as it is presently defined. Applicants are not asked to prove their membership of any of the defined groups, the only de facto test the BNP applies to membership applications is one of colour; are you white or not?

So if a white skinned person can have an application approved regardless of ethnic heritage then it follows that a black or other coloured skinned person must also have their application approved regardless of ethnic heritage. Simple as that.

Now, as for the list of "ethnic" associations listed by the fascist troll, check them out. Many are not membership associations, they are advocacy or advice bodies (like the Black Mental Health UK). They don't have members, they don't need an exemption, they only exist to provide advice to people.

Anything "Asian" or "Muslim" or "African" or "Chinese" is not a reference to colour. Any modern reference to "Black" invariably means "Black and Minority Ethnic" and is not a colour definition. For gawd's sake anyone actually living in this century knows this stuff. Any reference to "Women" is not colour specific. Anyone with doubts can look up all these organisations, there is no colour bar to membership, where they are actually membership associations.

I am not lecturing to the enlightened, but I reckon its important to spread the word about the Race Relations Act and why the BNP has an unlawful constitution and why these other advocacy and support groups are compliant and necessary for society.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:54 PM

HelenB

The list of groups is exactly what we want to see. The truth is marvellous, it will set you free. Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:58 PM

It isn't exactly what some here wish to see, but the truth sometimes hurts
- GUEST,Helen B.

Yes Helen, dearie, we noticed that the truth hurt you, you by-passed all the following posts about membership in the National Black Police Association, so let me remind you again......


*The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.*

Charlotte OLivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant to England

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

HelenB (Helen Butcher from Fakebook, probably), did you read Royston's explanation of S25 and S26? If not, why not? If so, why post what you did? Are you forgetful, stupid, or illiterate?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 01:16 PM

I should have said

The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.*

Unlike the racist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, anti-Islamic BNP.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant to England

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:04 PM

We should really be grateful that the Public Relations Department of the BNP can spare their valuable time to grace us with these pearls of wisdom from time to time. By educating us on their policies and motivations they are giving the general public the opportunity to make a more informed decision on where to cast our votes. Such dedication should be applauded and encouraged. The major parties could learn a lot from watching the BNP's vote-catching strategies - in fact I suspect that they already have. The 'paper candidate' technique, for example - if you know how unpopular your party's policies are going to be, you find some easily manipulated politically ignorant moron to stand up and take all the flak.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:45 PM

HelenB

The list of groups is exactly what we want to see. The truth is marvellous, it will set you free. Now fuck off.
- Royston

All self-respecting drug-fiends make sure that they've taken everything before the old bill arrive. It is a policy that has served me well over the years!
-Royston

Ahh your usual articulate self as usual eh Royston, and you call ME shrill...dear, dear! *LOL*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, on to far more important matters

The list is useful, but in a limited way. It focuses (much the same as the FaF) on a single issue, and there is a big danger in being a single issue entity as many prospective political candidates have found out. The larger picture of racism has to be faced at all times, you can get lost in the details.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:51 PM

Quod erat demonstrandum, Ollie.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:05 PM

Pot calling the kettle black me thinks.

There are more important issues to be dealt with than your opinion of me and mine of you. The BNP will feed upon any disunity shown by their opponents, so for the sake of having a chance of beating them (the BNP)a show of unity would be helpful. Facts and figures can be thrown around till the cows come home, it's actions that speak the loudest (I do and always have maintained that most moderation is an excuse for doing nothing. Once I return to England, in the next week or two I'll better be able to apply myself.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM

So, balddick posts and who shows up but the t**t. Good lord. Helen, you're more transparent than Saran Wrap.



















It means twit. You filthy minded old gal, Helen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

At the risk of sounding *shrill* *LOL* , Bruce, I would venture to say that baldrick (first name, Sodoff) and Helen Butcher, are one and the same person, either that or their married (the thought of the offspring of such a union is enough to drive a person to the mad house)

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Richard, you should know by now that BNP posters never read anything that proves that they are talking out of their proverbials, and I am beginning to find it incredibly tedious having to type the same responses time and again on the grounds that an impressional? is there such a word bypasser who hasn't read previous posts and responses might get taken in,

Steve
ps we still owe each other the gin/port!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

"It means twit. You filthy minded old gal, Helen."
- Peace

Nice t*ts

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
has a nice pear

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM

So now your attacking baldrick Richard.
Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

When the issue of the BNP successes was debated on Question Time, immigration was the elephant in the room.
The only panallist who tried to raise the issue was an economist.
The three politicians and the trade unionist just changed the subject and carried on talking about electoral reform, vile fascists etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

She sings a wonderful song doesn't she, bringing up all the usual suspects, too much immigration leading the charge once more.

Let me tell you something, Helen or whatever your name is. My job was put out to tender in Britain first and then internationally, I, humble little non-white immigrant that I am, was the ONLY person fully qualified for the said job, and that's what it's all about, being qualified for a job, regardless of colour, ethnic background, or what have you, so PLEASE spare us the poor me, I'm so down-trodden because I'm white bullsh*t

Take bloody responsibility, and STOP your whining!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:15 PM

Helen B, if "most BNP voters are working class city dwellers" why is there no local council presence for the BNP here in Manchester? Why do they field so few candidates and why do the ones they do field (in overwhelmingly white wards, by the way) do so badly?

And when you make lists of inflammatory statements, how about attemting to back them up with EVIDENCE, rather than simply trotting out the same old myths and cliches?

Just a thought.

Ever made any posts about folk music on this folk music forum, by the way? Thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:23 PM

One interesting thought.

Baldrick, being colour blind, should not have quite so much to say on the subject.

Black organisations like:-

""Board Of Deputies of British Jews
Jewish Telegraph
Antrim Chinese Community Association
Barnardos Chinese Lay Health Project
Chinese Welfare Association""

would probably hold meetings for their BLACK members in a telephone box, and have room for a buffet.

Does point up though a few groups other than afro or asian peoples, who could expect very short shrift from Nick the Bigot and his charming little playmates.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:35 PM

Oh, Oh...some folk (BNP types) should watch it, my people are everywhere.(I wonder if any of them are BNP members *LOL*)
Native American DNA found in UK

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:35 PM

Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
""Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."


Reading through this pile of crap, posted by an ignorant prat, too stupid to check the true figures, I managed to find just one item of indisputable truth, which I have highlighted.

Just goes to show. Even Helen can be right once in a while, though I doubt it'll be much comfort to her.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:44 PM

"The BNP leadership are fascist thugs"
- GUEST,Helen B.

Now THAT could get her expelled from the party, if she's a member *LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Roberts (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM

Baldrick?

Hell, I thought it was baldDick. I am SOOO sorry. Please excuse me bald dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:49 PM

'"The BNP leadership are fascist thugs"
- GUEST,Helen B.'

See? Being nice has turned HER around.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:05 PM

There - I knew she was from the Public Relations Department of the BNP. You never see the LibConLabs being as refreshingly honest as that. They may be fascist thugs, but at least they're English fascist thugs, dammit.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:31 PM

Nice Richard. I never had impersonation down as one of your talents !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:48 PM

most BNP voters are working class city dwellers

I think you'll find that many BNP are peripheral areas which were formerly Labour Party heartlands. Certainly that's true of Codnor, where the recent BNP rally was held.

The ordinary folk (who are sometimes not very well educated) have a real beef- they are often, were it not for the dole, destitute. Their parents used to be Labour Party supporters, but the LP went off in chase of middle class votes (long before Blair). Their parents were Trades Unionists, and Labour supporters, because it gave them hope of improvement. Where's that hope now?

I'm as anti- racist as they come, but I also think it's time the official antiracists (Local authority, government, and from all the major political parties) told the people of Codnor, and all the other abandoned areas, what they intend to do to make it possible for them, and their children, and their grandchildren, to make a decent living.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:49 PM

Helen,


Can you provide evidence to support the claims you made in your post of 03 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM?


Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:01 PM

"I'm as anti- racist as they come, but I also think it's time the official antiracists (Local authority, government, and from all the major political parties) told the people of Codnor, and all the other abandoned areas, what they intend to do to make it possible for them, and their children, and their grandchildren, to make a decent living."


There's a lovely Irony here.


I keep reading about people Migrating long distances to find work, then complaints about how there is no work in "my area".


Where I live, most people commute for an hour to get to work and an hour to get back.

How many places could a guy commute to that are within an hour from Codnor?

His wife would spend money in the local shop etc ...

... money comes into the area .. etc ...


The area I live in also has a good safety net for those who are down on their luck - I know - I relied on it - it's the same as that which exists in every other town in England and Wales.


Motivation is the key - and the BNP won't provide that.

Good education and support for young people is what deprived communities need.

The BNP will not provide any of those things.

A sense of hope and optimism is what need to be inspired.

The BNP will only encourage people to blame each other and cause communities to spiral downwards into hatred resentment and Violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:19 PM

Lox, I thought it was a little low, even by his standards. Black is white, day is night, right is wrong. And vice versa when expedient.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:03 PM

Oh, holy Hermione, HelenB - have you not bothered to read even a few articles about the nature of fascism?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:15 PM

Do you mean Paul?

I don't know him.

I was just inspired to make a general observation by a comment he made.

I wasn't attacking him.


I was suggesting that those who sit on their arses moaning that the reason they are unemployed is because someone else has nicked their Job should take a leaf out of the so called thieves book and try looking further than their own doorstep.

Our foreign workforce have travelled a long way to get work. These BNP supporters seem to think that work should be brought to them.

The world doesn't work like that.

By the way Helen, did you ever get round to providing that evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:56 PM

i also live in a semi rural town. there are alot of folks unemployed or who commute into manchster to work.

and those who say the migraants nicked our jobs, piffle! they are willing to do anything, they will do the jobs that most people don't want.

it is NOT their fault that the bosses pay them less, if in fact they do.
it is NOT their fault that their bosses often cut corners and provide very basic safety.
it is NOT their fault that the law has overlooked this issuse for far too long.

the great thing about the BNP being taken to court or even them getting votes, is that this particulaer can of worms has finally been opened.

all these complaints that the BNP make against (im)migrants should be talked about by government, by the media, and by the people of the great country. and by god they are!

i have listened to a phone in radio show for the last 2 weeks every night. can you guess what they have been talking about every other night?   the message, the values(if you van call them that) and the methods of the BNP......WONDERFUL STUFF.

if the other parties do not address this problem now, then i dispair!

the appathy shown in the euro elections, i hope is no indicator as to how the things will go in the general elections, which we will be having soon.

yes i used my vote last time and i will again, maybe i didn't vote as my heart dictated but with my head as a way of keeping the BNP in their place.

surely with these charges hanging over them and the constant publicity about what they truely are, they have even less chance than before to make an impact on the place we call home.

take care all

jade x x x x

ps this wasn't to anyone or as a direct response to one person but a collective response as my brain hasn't capability of remembering names.

pps, richard, i bow down to your legal genious,but i am so glad that someone posted after you and told me what it all meant. that sort of law terminology is truely DOUBLESPEAK to me. :)

x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 12:21 AM

It's a riot reading the posts for support for the BNP. It's the same logic that the KKK used here.
From what I've read they are sister organizations, with the exception that we here in the US have been plagued by the Clan long enough to know & feel that they are a stain on human race. You who support the BNP & other forms of racism will eventually be colored by the same stain that has for eons discolored the landscape of humanity.


Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:52 AM

""Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement. [..] They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

I don't personally know, whether the 'concerns' of such working class people are 'legitimate' as I don't myself see a massive influx of immigrants. For my own part, I suspect that the concerns of such people, have been generated by the Media.

But whether those concerns be legitimate, or no, in a Democracy they do have a right for those concerns to be heard and addressed, and not to have them automatically labeled 'fascism'. For if their concerns are dismissed as fascism, then they will be alienated from more moderate parties and policies, and turn to those who *are* fascist, who will welcome them home with open arms.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:30 AM

Crow Sister it is not like you to fail to see the logical fallacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:32 AM

And 300

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 03:09 AM

HelenB, Paul Burke and Crow Sister,

As I have repeatedly said on this board and everywhere else, there is NO EXCUSE for the BNP. Never Surrender!

The response to HelenB's justifiable list of concerns is for aggrieved and concerned people to insist that the democratic political parties - whether they be Lib/Lab/Con, whatever, to do the following;

*Build more hospitals
*Build more schools
*Build more social housing
*Increase the minimium wage
*Enforce the minimum wage ruthlessly for *all* workers so the playing field is level.

The response to a lack of social resources is not to find scapegoats and "send 'em 'ome", becaus the same shortages will persist unless governments start dealing fairly with the people *all people*. "Send 'em 'ome" is one step from "Lock 'em 'up" and that was, in the last Nazi country in Europe, one step from the gas chambers.

HelenB, BNP "sympathisers" need to get a grip on this issue. The racist. fascist hardcore of the party will just keep on picking targets and scapegoats because their lives will never improve because they will never take responsibility for themselves. Their problems will always be someone else's fault. that is why they cannot be reasoned with, why they cannot be tolerated or humoured.

Maybe you need to ask yourself the question that *they* need to ask themselves which is, instead of calculating and resenting what you believe other people are "getting", why not do something positive yourself that actually improves your own life in your own community!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:43 AM

Crow Sister's quote was one of mine, for which I paid a price.
It was NOT an excuse for BNP, just an explanation of where their votes are coming from.
They have asked for all those things on Royston's list, but no one else listens to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:09 AM

Keith, the BNP hasn't promised anyone anything that will improve the lot of "the unheard downtrodden", as they seem to be characterised. The BNP is only offering a social cull to reduce the numbers of the so-called needy. Once the "effniks" have been kicked out then they will start drawing up new lists of the "unwanted" or "un-entitled" it was ever thus. Eventually they'll come for you!

If the BNP should get their way, I can't imagine their constituents lining up to mop floors and wash bed-pans, when all the "foreign" labourers are rejected, and I certainly don't relish the idea of the ignorant, wilfully uneducated trash that tends to gather around the BNP offering to fix my teeth or do open-heart surgery on me, should I ever need it.

All people have got to take some bloody responsibility for their own lives, rather than blaming others for their own failures and hoping that jack-booted thugs will kick 'em all out and redistribute their assets and entitlements.

For crying out loud, if peasants from Pakistan or India or other places can fund themselves or their children to come here (or somewhere else) to work and study to get top-flight degrees in the toughest subjects such as medicine and then make a real contribution to our great nation, what the fuck is the problem that these BNP malcontents have either with those people or in their own lives.

There is a lack of social resources, fact. The answer is not to cull the neeedy, the answer is to make greater provision. There are options, you can vote Liberal, you can vote Green. If you don't like those options then you need to get into Labour or the Conservatives and agitate for change in those parties' policies.

Better still, get into the BNP and reform it's policies. Make it a party committed to the welfare and succes of *all the people* of Britain, not just the people of Britain that the glorious leader thinks are worthy people of Britain.

Start a new party along the above lines.

Voting Fascist BNP is lazy, craven, stupid and dangerous. I, and people like me, are constantly shouting the solutions as well as campaigning against the problem. Gradually more and more people are waking up to this and it needs more - and it needs more of "Middle England" to get behind it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:37 AM

Actually Keith A, though I'm aware you've posted similar sentiments, I wasn't aware that those words quoted, were your precise words! I was actually posting a response to comments made by "Helen B" below, who perhaps has in fact copied your text?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 06:04 AM

Crow Sister, yes I see what happened.
Royston, yes I agree.You need to address the people who do vote BNP for those reasons.
They do have issues and feel ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 06:18 AM

...ignored by the main stream parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:10 AM

Barry,

The BNP isn't a new thing in the UK and I have played a small part in campaigns against them going back nearly 20 years.


They have remained, as you describe the KKK in the USA, an embarrassing stain upon society.

In fact, they were kept in check for a long time by simply being a laughing stock. They were like the idiot at a party that noone wants to hang out with because he keeps insulting everyone and groping all the women.


A charismatic leader can influence things differently, and though Griffin isn't the most endearing of characters himself, his strategy of rebranding the BNP as nothing more sinister than a moderate party that are unafraid to discuss the difficult issues honestly is potentially a dangerous one that could, in this age of brands, convince otherwise decent people to vote for them and to engage in their very specialized area of political debate.


It is up to the rest of us to ensure that their lies are exposed and that the truth of who they are is clear and easy to understand and backed up with hard evidence.


More importantl;y though, as the BNP have two seats in Europe, tey have more money to spend on promoting their ideas on one hand, but more worryingly, they have greater rights when it comes to being included in debates.

Right now there is no chance in hell of David Dukes ever being pitted face to face with Obama in a debate.

Griffin and Brons, the two BNP MEP's are elected representatives of Britain in the European Parliament, so they cannot be ignored as easily as they used to be.

They have as much right to be on the Radio and TV as any other "legit" politicians.

Consequently, their ideas are currently receiving more attention.

Consequently, refuting their lies will be a way of life for the rest of us for the next few years when we encounter them, until they lose their seats at the next election and are marginalized once again.


You can take nothing for granted and times will always change.

It is up to us to ensure they change for the better and to prevent them changing for the worse.

This is a war of ideas, so practising, even on an obscure folk website is healthy as the clearest thinker and speaker will win.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bubblyrat
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

The BNP are ,happily,on the road to self-destruction.There is little,if any,need to pursue them down the mineshaft of oblivion into which they have tipped themselves.This ,they will willingly accomplish all by themselves.
                  And yet,here you all are;hateful,spiteful,vengeful,hell-bent on discrediting and destroying what is,at least for the moment,a perfectly legitimate organisation,of which membership,if not advisable or acceptable,is not actually illegal. So much for Democracy !! What,I wonder,will you all do once your aims have been accomplished ?? What other organisations,clubs,fraternities or societies should I be fearful of joining ,lest it offend your sensibilites (I was NOT considering joining the BNP !)..??
             To be honest,the BNP,"per se",do not frighten me.BUT---an awful lot of you people do !
                   I was most interested,as a former Serviceman ( Sorry,White Supremacist Colonialist Warmongerer )to read of the part played by Coloured servicemen in WW2.In fact,I believe that the esteemed Hughie, of "The Spinners" ,was one such.And I greatly admired him for that. Of course, no mention was made of the thousands of Sikhs who fought for Hitler,and ,indeed,manned the machine-gun positions along the "Atlantic Wall" on D-Day----Many a poor innocent "Tommy" unknowingly lost his life in the cause of Independence for India on June 6th 1944. But I guess you would rather not know that ?? However, I forgive you.
             Meanwhile,just calm down and let the BNP quietly fizzle out,as it will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 09:53 AM

Hughie Jones a 'coloured' serviceman in world war 2 ? I must tell him that when I see him.