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Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)

GUEST,Sam 26 Aug 09 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Aug 09 - 05:01 AM
Genie 26 Aug 09 - 05:10 AM
Raptor 26 Aug 09 - 07:43 AM
Fiolar 26 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM
Beer 26 Aug 09 - 08:20 AM
3refs 26 Aug 09 - 08:24 AM
SINSULL 26 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM
artbrooks 26 Aug 09 - 08:36 AM
Wolfgang 26 Aug 09 - 09:29 AM
Smedley 26 Aug 09 - 09:37 AM
Alice 26 Aug 09 - 09:49 AM
katlaughing 26 Aug 09 - 10:25 AM
Bat Goddess 26 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM
Azizi 26 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM
gnu 26 Aug 09 - 10:48 AM
Sailor Ron 26 Aug 09 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Sansy McLean (lost cookie) 26 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM
catspaw49 26 Aug 09 - 12:26 PM
Peace 26 Aug 09 - 12:28 PM
katlaughing 26 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM
olddude 26 Aug 09 - 12:38 PM
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SharonA 26 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM
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Ebbie 26 Aug 09 - 02:00 PM
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SINSULL 26 Aug 09 - 03:25 PM
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Emma B 26 Aug 09 - 04:02 PM
Bill D 26 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM
lefthanded guitar 26 Aug 09 - 04:17 PM
SharonA 26 Aug 09 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 26 Aug 09 - 04:40 PM
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artbrooks 26 Aug 09 - 05:37 PM
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DougR 26 Aug 09 - 06:36 PM
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gnu 26 Aug 09 - 07:18 PM
catspaw49 26 Aug 09 - 07:43 PM
katlaughing 26 Aug 09 - 07:44 PM
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artbrooks 26 Aug 09 - 08:33 PM
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jeddy 26 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM
Genie 26 Aug 09 - 09:26 PM
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katlaughing 26 Aug 09 - 09:30 PM
SharonA 26 Aug 09 - 09:34 PM
artbrooks 26 Aug 09 - 10:02 PM
katlaughing 26 Aug 09 - 10:18 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 26 Aug 09 - 10:24 PM
Greg F. 26 Aug 09 - 10:29 PM
Beer 26 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM
Riginslinger 26 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM
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Azizi 26 Aug 09 - 11:33 PM
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Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 27 Aug 09 - 03:13 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Aug 09 - 07:16 AM
catspaw49 27 Aug 09 - 07:49 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 27 Aug 09 - 07:56 AM
jeddy 27 Aug 09 - 07:58 AM
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Raptor 27 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM
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Subject: BS: Edward Kennedy dead
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:35 AM

Senator Edward Kennedy, the liberal lion of the US Senate, has died aged 77, after battling a brain tumour. Skip related content

For nearly a half-century in the Senate, Kennedy was a dominant voice on health care, civil rights, war and peace, and more.

To the American public, though, he was best known as the last surviving brother of a legendary political family.

Edward Kennedy was elected to the Senate in 1962, when his brother John was president, and served longer than all but two senators in history.

Over the decades, he put his imprint on every major piece of social legislation to clear the Congress.

A family statement said: "We've lost the irreplaceable centre of our family and joyous light in our lives, but the inspiration of his faith, optimism, and perseverance will live on in our hearts forever. We thank everyone who gave him care and support over this last year, and everyone who stood with him for so many years in his tireless march for progress toward justice, fairness and opportunity for all."

Senator Kennedy lost two of his brothers - John and Robert - to assassins' bullets, and his own hopes of reaching the White House were damaged, perhaps doomed, in 1969 by the scandal that came to be known as Chappaquiddick, a car accident that left a young woman dead.

Senator Kennedy - known to family, friends and foes simply as Ted - ended his quest for the presidency in 1980 with a stirring valedictory that echoed across the decades: "For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die."

The third-longest-serving senator in US history, he was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumour in May 2008 and underwent surgery and a gruelling regime of radiation and chemotherapy.

His death comes just weeks after that of his sister Eunice Kennedy Shriver, who died on August 11.
    Sam, we don't allow non-members to start non-music threads, but I'll let this one go.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: BS: Edward Kennedy dead
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:01 AM

40 years plus 40 days later .... Mary Jo Kopechne ....finds peace .... amidst the swamp water and seaweed in the strands of hair.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:10 AM

This came as a bit of a shock to me, even though it wasn't really unexpected. I am saddened in many ways.

Sen. Edward Kennedy dies at age 77


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Subject: BS: Obit: Teddy Kennedy
From: Raptor
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:43 AM

RIP


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Fiolar
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM

Sad indeed. Ar Deis De Le Na hAnam.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Beer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:20 AM

A great American
R.I.P.
Adrien


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Subject: Obit: Edward M Kennedy
From: 3refs
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:24 AM

"Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, the last surviving brother in a political dynasty and one of the most influential senators in U.S. history, died Tuesday night at his home on Cape Cod after a year-long struggle with brain cancer. He was 77"

Just a flood of memories.

God Bless
RIP


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM

He lived in the shadow of Mary Jo Kopechne -"the young woman" mentioned above. She cost him the presidency. Like his brothers, a brilliant and effective politician with a dark side. Aeschylus would have had a field day.

RIP


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:36 AM

He provided a firm anchor for the so-called progressive wing of the Democratic Party, and likely delayed and limited its shift toward the center-right of American politics. It is too bad that his career in public service was overshadowed for so long by one mistake, and that there are so few Kennedys in the next generation that are following the example set by him and his brothers.

RIP


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:29 AM

Headline in a German online-magazine: An icon, a giant, a maker of presidents.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Smedley
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:37 AM

What artbrooks calls 'one mistake' was an act of appalling cowardice that cost the life of another person. So a pretty grim mistake.

Having said that, plenty of American presidents have a whole lot more blood on their hands than that.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Alice
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:49 AM

I was listening to the news last night when the special report came on that Senator Kennedy had just died. For 2 more hours, I listened to the history of Ted Kennedy, the messages coming in of condolences from Orrin Hatch and Nancy Reagan. It was when Orrin Hatch's condolences were read that I started crying, because Ted Kennedy was able to be admired and beloved even by the most opposite of politicians in the senate.

I kept thinking of all the power in him to help create a better health care system in the US, how long he has worked for that, and how close we are now but still really needing his help to achieve success. During his lifetime the senate used to have statesmen who would come from both liberal and conservative sides and respect each other, debate in a statesmanlike way. Then came people like Newt Gingrich and the talk radio shock and hate jocks who have no respect for their opposition, but rather demonized the word liberal, created and nurtured hate for the Democrats.

It is absolutely the end of an era with the passing of Ted Kennedy.
Rest in peace.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:25 AM

Those were my thoughts, too, Alice, esp. about the health care problems. I wish he'd lived long enough to see a good change come about on that; he had worked for so long and so hard at that.

I feel kind of numb right now. Knew it was coming, but still such a Passing. It is the end of an era.

Thank you, Sir and RIP,

kat


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM

I can only repeat what's been said above -- and that I'm saddened by our loss.

Of his 'one mistake' (which I well remember) -- he was young and, I'm sure, scared. We've all made errors of judgment, especially in our youth when we were most invincible (at least in our own mind). Most of us were just damned lucky not to have caused death or injury to ourselves or another person.

He lived long enough to become a statesman -- something we truly need more of in our government.

Linn


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM

I co-sign what Bat Goddess wrote. RIP Senator Kennedy.

**

And if the original poster of this thread is the same Guest Sam from the BNP threads below the Mudcat line in the BS section, well he (or she) knows a lot about infamy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:48 AM

Well said. RIP.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:18 AM

Not being American I can't share the loss that his death means to many of his compatriots. I'm sorry he's died, the same way I'm sorry to hear of the death of anyone who has decicated his working life to try & make a difference to the lives of 'the comman man'. Having said that I can't overlook his support, either actual or moral, to the IRA.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: GUEST,Sansy McLean (lost cookie)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM

The end of an era! He and his siblings did much to foster social justice in the USA. In his youth he made serious mistakes, but so have many of us as well. In the end his legacy shone brightly! RIP!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:26 PM

There is far too much to say for me to add something to this thread.   A good point made on CBS this morning.........The way he worked in the senate is a way now forgotten and unknown to younger senators and politicians in general. It was the across-the-aisle, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, mode of LBJ, Russell Long, Ev Dirksen, and many others of a time now past. Things got done becasue they had to get done and it was in general done with the best interests of the country in mind. Today, he who has the PACs and the asssociated money gets elected and that older spirit is gone with pre-purchased votes.

Thanks Senator......The youngest and last Kennedy brother accomplished far more than anyone expected and leaves perhaps the strongest legacy of action.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:28 PM

"Today, he who has the PACs and the asssociated money gets elected and that older spirit is gone with pre-purchased votes."

Amen to that.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM

Well said, PatSpaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:38 PM

a great American leader with a social conscience. I shutter to think where we would be without him ... yes he made mistakes in his personal life. Who hasn't ... let those without sin cast the first stone huh .. But America would have been a far sadder place to live without his leadership and conscience for social justice.

God Bless you Ted, we are all heartbroken losing you


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 01:01 PM

What a great person, statesman, and orator we have lost. I don't remember much of my college graduation - daddy had just been blown up by terrorists - but I *do* remember Ted's commencement speech. It will be a long time before we see the like.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM

"He lived in the shadow of Mary Jo Kopechne -'the young woman' mentioned above. She cost him the presidency."

Not precisely. Kennedy's actions cost him the Presidency. Not just his driving on July 18, 1969 when he was responsible for Kopechne's death, but his actions afterward, particularly his failure to report the accident right away and, more broadly, his drinking habit and playboy behaviors. No one can be sure now whether Kennedy was driving drunk, but no one can be sure of believing his statement that he was not, given his habit and his reputation. The public's lack of trust in him, and the public knowledge of his irresponsibility, is what cost him the Presidency.

All he achieved since that night could not erase what he did, and what he did not do, that night. Sorry, but he'll never rest in complete peace.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 01:54 PM

Personally, I think he was a great senator. He knew how to compromise and how to seek balance, and how to get things accomplished in a polarized Congress. He stood for what was right for America - even though his personal life was often a mess.

During his first marriage, Teddy Kennedy was a playboy. The Chappaquiddick scandal was indeed a scandal - there's no excuse for what he did. Despite that, he did a lot of good for his country, good that might not have been done if he had been sent to prison. But I'm sure there a lot of people who are thinking today that Mary Jo Kopechne has finally found justice.

Perhaps the lesson here is that if a person does something wrong, he/she shouldn't be condemned for the rest of life. Ted Kennedy went on to accomplish a lot of good for the people of this country.

May he rest in peace.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:00 PM

There are some here who evidently do not believe in redemption and restitution.

(I used to have a brother who was unforgiving to everyone all his life - because he never learned to forgive himself.)

RIP, Mr. Kennedy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:07 PM

I often don't think much of the Guardian, but it has a good article on the 1969 Chappaquiddick incident here (click). As is pointed out in the article, it's clear that Kennedy didn't just run away and do nothing. He and two friends went back to the scene of the accident, but were unable to free Kopechne. He didn't notify authorities until the next morning - but remember that this incident took place on an island, after the last ferry had left. But it's also clear that Kennedy's conduct was suspicious and certainly not heroic.

How guilty was he? Nobody really knows.

His conduct in that incident and in much of his personal life, was not admirable. Still, he was a great senator.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Nancy King
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:09 PM

How very sad -- a great loss for our country.   

I think he accomplished much more as a US Senator than he ever could have as president.

Nancy


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:13 PM

Why did this thread have to be started by Guest, Sam. "Sam" is a Nazi, and he and his ilk never had any commerce with the ideas or ideals of Ted Kennedy. RIP, Mr Kennedy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:24 PM

Who knows whether it was the same "GUEST, Sam"? Bruce, please re-read what I said to you, in my PM, about red herrings.

Ebbie, it's not up to me or anyone else to "redeem" Kennedy. That would be up to his God. As for "restitution", I think you have it backwards. What restitution did the Kennedy family offer to the Kopechne family in the wake of their daughter's death?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:26 PM

Well, if it's NOT the same Guest Sam then someone with the button isn't doing his/her homework. TWO people are NOT supposed to have the same user name--a fact that has escaped the BNP. So it's one or the other.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:29 PM

Actually, I started an Obit thread for Kennedy too, Peace. (I searched for "Obit" and didn't find it because the thread Sam had started just said "Edward Kennedy dead".) The two threads have been merged, using the more customary and respectful title.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:40 PM

I'd like to think that Kennedy's death does not signal the end of an era. It probably signals the end of the Kennedy 'dynasty' as major political power players, and I think that's sad. But I'd love to see the progressives and even the truly moderate Democrats and Independents be rededicated to the populist and egalitarian and humanitarian values that Kennedy worked so hard for. And I'd love to see his death spur some kind of return to the kind of Congressional cooperation that, as Spaw said, Kennedy was famous for.

I'm not at all sure that can happen, given the angry tone of today's politics and media (especially on the "right").   But Kennedy did have dear friends "across the aisle," and it's possible some of them may be a little more open to cooperation with the Obama administration and the Democratic-controlled Congress out of respect for Ted Kennedy.
I can hope, can't I?

What I really hope is that the so-called "far left" in American political (ROFL) will be energized, not disheartened, by the loss of the "liberal lion of the Senate" and will find new determination to push for the kinds of progressive policies that the Kennedys have worked for.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

What Genie said. Also see Joe's note below the post of "GUEST, Sam". Here's an excerpt about this from my PM to Bruce:

Yes, I see that the Ted Kennedy obit thread was started by GUEST, Sam. I imagine that Joe let it slide because it was an Obit thread and because Sam had simply copied-and-pasted some obit info from a legitimate source. But if you question that exception to the rule, why not PM Joe about it? Grumbling... about it in a Mudcat thread would be... ineffectual. It doesn't change my opinion about Joe or about Mudcat policy; I think that any criticism of such a non-inflammatory Obit thread, simply because it was started by a GUEST, falls into the "red herring" category.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

Restitution: About $95,000 from Kennedy and $50,000 from the insurance company.

I agree, Joe, that if a person does something wrong he should not be condemned for it for the rest of his life. I also believe that if my son pulled the same stunt and told the same lies, he would be in jail for a considerable amount of time.

I groan out loud when I hear about Kennedy's social conscience. He regularly used the Kennedy name, power and money to get himself and various Kennedy offspring out of criminal predicaments.

Yes - he accomplished great things as a senator. Maybe now isn't the time to point out that in some ways he a colossal screw up.

Actually I am looking forward to the publishing of his autobiography next month. It will be interesting to see how he judged himself and his legacy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:49 PM

Oops, I didn't know Genie had posted again before my post. I meant "What Genie said at 2:29 p.m. about this thread."

(Can't say I agree with absolutely everything Genie said at 2:40!)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:52 PM

SINSULL: Thanks for the info about restitution. Please give a reference for it; I couldn't find any such thing when I searched.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:59 PM

SINS, Laura Bush might well have done jail time for driving drunk and killing her boyfriend when she was young too, had her family's circumstances been different. People who are white and rich, or even middle-class, often get by with "mistakes" that would land a working-class or poor person -- especially a black or other minority -- in the slammer (and maybe ruin them for life).   All I ask with regard to our readiness to condemn or forgive Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick is that we use the same 'moral yardstick' that's used for appraising other rich and/or powerful public figures, including politicians.
At least what Kennedy did at Chappaquiddick wasn't deliberate and premeditated killing -- which many other powerful people have engaged in, in one form or another, and survived with their reputations pretty much intact.

It is in Kennedy's work as a US Senator that we see his "social conscience" at work most clearly, and to greatest effect.

In some ways, many, if not most, of our "heroes" have been colossally flawed.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:12 PM

His voting record on important bills.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:22 PM

Maybe BNP Sam started the thread out of admiration for the politics of the senator's father...
I have mixed feelings about him. While he doubtless did much for the poor and dispossessed of his own nation, he was an effective recruiting sergeant and fund-raiser for terrorists and murderers in Northern Ireland. To me that is a flaw more colossal than failing to report an accident.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:25 PM

One source:
http://www.citizensvoice.com/news/remembering_mary_jo_a_promising_life_lost_at_chappaquiddick_40_years_ago


A Google search turns up numerous references to the insurance payment, personal payment and that Kennedy paid the Kopechne's legal fees for fighting the exhumation of the body for a second autopsy. None of this IMHO is at all damning to Kennedy. It is the least he could have done.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:30 PM

"All I ask with regard to our readiness to condemn or forgive Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick is that we use the same 'moral yardstick' that's used for appraising other rich and/or powerful public figures, including politicians."

I cannot believe you said that, Genie.

As a matter of fact, those of us who take Chappaquiddick into account as part of that measurement ARE using the same moral yardstick we use fot those other powerful public figures who have their misdeeds plastered over with money and shellacked by consultants and slick lawyers. Those figures all come up short against that yardstick. Are you saying Ted was no worse than the rest of 'em? I'm saying he was no better... but I'm also saying that, in some ways, he was worse than some of the rest of 'em.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

Y'all had plenty of time to kick around Chappaquiddick while Ted Kennedy was alive. Nows he's dead. Let it go. As if everyone here has led a perfect life....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:55 PM

SharonA, what I meant by "using the same yardstick" is that an act of negligent homicide -- IF that's what Chappaquiddick was -- seems to be judged more harshly by our media and the public at large than, say, starting an unjustified war, authorizing torture of captured people (who in many cases were guilty of nothing), allowing hundreds (or more) people to die unnecessarily in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina by administrative negligence or indifference, contributing to the suffering and death of people by financial fraud (e.g., Enron), etc., etc.    Many of our governmental policies place the obscene profits of "health insurance" corporations above the lives and well-being of our citizens, including those who pay (sometimes a LOT) for that insurance.   There is more than one way to contribute to the death of a person. Drunk driving is one. Business and political policies that disregard human rights and needs for the sake of huge wealth and power are others. : )


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:00 PM

ETA (to Sharon): Ted Kennedy may have been as flawed in his personal/private life as "the rest of them," but as a Senator -- as a representative of people -- I don't think he was anywhere near as greedy and corrupt as most politicians. And as someone pretty far removed from our politicians except where legislation concerned, I am far more concerned with what Ted Kennedy did in his public/political life than anything else.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:02 PM

Sam or Shelley or whatever she calls herself is, as she boasts, a supporter of the BNP

This is how her party reported the death of Ted Kennedy today

"Modern America's greatest traitor, Edward Kennedy, has died, after nearly destroying European America. He leaves behind a scandalous political career which was laced with lurid tales of drugs, sexual abuse and moral degeneracy.

Apart from his reprehensible personal life, Senator Kennedy is best known as the "godfather" of America's immigration policy since 1964, and is possibly the one individual most responsible for the current demographic displacement of European Americans from that continent.

As chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Immigration, Senator Kennedy had chief oversight responsibility for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which he allowed to degenerate into one of the most ineffective agencies in the Federal Government.

He was the chief sponsor of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished the national-origin quotas that had been in place in the United States since the Immigration Act of 1924.

During debate on the Senate floor, Kennedy, speaking of the effects of the act, said, "First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same…. Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset…. Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia…. In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think…. The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

Of course, precisely the opposite happened, and the Act resulted in a flood of new immigration from non-European nations that changed the ethnic make-up of the United States. Immigration doubled between 1965 and 1970 and doubled again between 1970 and 1990. European origin Americans have dropped as a percentage of the American population from nearly 90 percent to the low 60 percent of today. At current immigration rates, European Americans are on course to become an absolute minority in their country within twenty years.

Despite the demographic change which proved Kennedy was a bare faced liar, he shamelessly proceeded to foster a further set of laws which actually encouraged the Third World invasion of America. He was behind the Refugee Act of 1980, and a major proponent of the fraud-ridden 1986 immigration amnesty. In both cases, he deliberately lied in public about the number of "immigrants" who would exploit the legislation, claiming that the effects would be minor.

In reality, about 2.7 million illegals qualified for American citizenship, one of the single largest population additions in American history, and the lure of amnesty drew a further five million illegals into the country.

Kennedy also promoted his anti-white legislation without any regard to the cost in administrative and financial terms. His 1980 Refugee Act created a massive taxpayer-funded bureaucracy which today, according to its own figures, works through at least 100,000 fake asylum applications each year, in addition to the 'genuine' ones.

The Seasonal Agricultural Worker (SAW) amnesty, promoted by Kennedy, saw fraud rates as high as 70 percent. The number of illegals who used the amnesty to gain access to America was estimated to be at least three times the number of those who qualified given the size of that country's agricultural labour force.

His personal life was as appalling as his political career. Time magazine once described Kennedy as "Palm Beach boozer, lout and tabloid grotesque" while Newsweek said Kennedy was "the living symbol of the family flaws."

Kennedy himself later acknowledged, "I went through a lot of difficult times over a period in my life where [drinking] may have been somewhat of a factor or force." Twice he was involved in drunken incidents in Washington restaurants to which police were called, with one involving physical contact with a waitress.

His most infamous personal moment came in July 1969 when he was on Martha's Vineyard's Chappaquiddick Island at a party for the "Boiler Room Girls", a group of young women who had worked on his brother Robert's presidential campaign the year before.

Kennedy left the party with one of the women, 28-year-old Mary Jo Kopechne. He drove his car off the Dike Bridge into the Poucha Pond inlet. Kennedy escaped the overturned vehicle and swam to safety, but Kopechne died in the car. Kennedy left the scene and did not call authorities until after Kopechne's body was discovered the following day.

Kennedy pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and was given a sentence of two months in jail, suspended. The most likely explanation for his behaviour was that he was severely under the influence of drugs or alcohol and did not want his blood tested so soon after the incident, leaving the unfortunate young woman to drown. Kennedy denied the allegations, which dogged his failed 1980 presidential election challenge against incumbent Jimmy Carter.

Edward Kennedy will go down in the annals of history as one of the greatest traitors America has ever produced, due to his attempts to utterly destroy the country of his birth."

THIS IS THE 'GUEST' YOU INVITE INTO YOUR FORUM!

Be vigilant!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM

NO ONE, except Sen. Kennedy himself has any idea of exactly what happened, and he said even he was not sure...

from the article linked above:

"... He insisted that he was "not driving under the influence of alcohol" nor had he "engaged in any immoral conduct" with Kopechne. "But my conduct and conversations during the next several hours (following the accident) to the extent that I can remember them make no sense to me at all," he added. "Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either on the physical, emotional trauma brought on by the accident or on anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the police immediately."

For 40 years since, Ted Kennedy has been an exemplary public figure, working to make life better in every way he could. What more could be asked of someone, whether they had an 'unfortunate incident' in their past or not?

I despair at these attempts by those who do not know to judge and decide that someone's life is defined by what they assume about something 40 years ago.

Let's let him rest.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:17 PM

I don't know what I can add to these thoughts, except my own personal feeling about Ted and the Kennedys. They were larger than life. They came from wealth, but spent their political lives trying to better the lives of ALL Americans, the middle class and the poor. They inspired a generation, certainly MINE to try and reach out of our narrow lives and be part of a larger community, to contribute goodness to the world.
It's the end of legacy, end of an era.

As far as his mistake of 40 years ago, I do believe it was truly an accident. (If anyone has ever seen a picture of that bridge, btw, it is treacherous). I think his track record shows that he was a man of conscience overall (and there's NO use arguing it with people who disgree)

For me, I just feel terribly saddened, and the entire family seems to have been met by tragedy at ever turn.An older brother lost. Two brothers lost. A sister lost. A lovely and elegant sister in law gone. A nephew of great promise, most heartbreakingly gone too soon. And yet, where lesser folks would have faltered and been thwarted, Ted Kennedy took up the mantle and never lost his fire and dedication to a cause greater than his own.

Rest in peace Ted. Rest in peace all of them.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:21 PM

OK, Genie. I get it. I don't think Chappaquiddick is judged any more harshly than some of the other things you mention, but I guess we judge it harshly because it's less abstract to us -- it's one man and one woman in one car, and most of us can relate to being in that situation and being responsible, as a driver, for what happens to the passenger in the car we're driving.

The right thing to do after a traffic accident is very obvious, and it's spelled out for each and every driver by the law, so when a rich and powerful figure gets away with doing the wrong thing (walking away) and compounding it with silence and lies and conflicting stories, it raises our ire because we know we'd have the book thrown at us for doing the same thing. It's a bit more difficult to put ourselves in the shoes of the person who starts a war or authorizes torture; we're left wondering what sort of judgment call we'd make in the same situation, with so many conflicting pressures upon us.

Wesley says we should let Chappaquiddick go, now that Kennedy is dead. That's not so easy when we know that Kennedy took his deepest secrets about that incident to the grave with him. In all his versions of the incident, he never gave an explanation of it that made sense in light of the evidence that the public is privy to, and we don't know what the local authorities covered up and continue to cover up. Many of us believe there was a more serious crime committed that night, and we believe that Kennedy should have come clean about it but never did. So, yeah, we're still kickin' it around to see if someone still living knows what really happened... and will admit to it now that Kennedy is gone.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:40 PM

I am sorry he died. He did some good things and some not so good. He was reelected by his constituency so he must have done his job in their eyes and that is all that matters. He wasn't my Senator so his passing does not cause me harm or help.

My hope is that at last the family of Mary Jo Kopeckne can finally let her rest and the conservative windbags will find no need to bring her up every once in a while. Why should the Kopeckne's suffer so the Seans and Rushes and Becks and Savages can whip a tired pony and make a stale point.

Don


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:44 PM

So Sharon. Will YOUR life stand up to that kind of scrutiny? Jeez - Let it go. You'll never be happy with any of the answers you get so why bother yourself?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:44 PM

Sharon, I'm actually more concerned about the overly harsh treatment that the poor and minorities (and some others) get at the hands of the law than I am about the rich and connected being allowed to put some serious mistakes behind them and move on.

I don't know what happened at Chappaquiddick, but I think it's almost certain that someone whose car had just plunged off a bridge into frigid water would have been disoriented from a concussion and maybe some hypothermia too.   If they had consumed any alcohol at all beforehand, that would exacerbate the confusion.    It's quite possible that Kennedy's story is true and that his only "sin" was the delay in contacting authorities -- something that probably wouldn't have made a difference as to Kopechne's survival but which COULD have made the difference between Kennedy being able to go on with his life as a public servant and his being an outcast from that.   Personally, I don't think the nation would have been better served by his being imprisoned or ostracized -- And I feel the same way about "average citizens" who might have acted the same in a similar situation.   
When someone commits an offense against others, I'd rather see rehabilitation and restitution than retribution and recrimination.    We don't offer everyone that chance -- which I think is the tragedy and injustice -- but I'm glad when someone who does have that chance uses it for good. And I think Ted Kennedy did a lot of good for a lot of people.


Word to what lefthanded guitar said:
"As far as his mistake of 40 years ago, I do believe it was truly an accident. (If anyone has ever seen a picture of that bridge, btw, it is treacherous). I think his track record shows that he was a man of conscience overall (and there's NO use arguing it with people who disgree)

For me, I just feel terribly saddened, and the entire family seems to have been met by tragedy at ever turn.An older brother lost. Two brothers lost. A sister lost. A lovely and elegant sister in law gone. A nephew of great promise, most heartbreakingly gone too soon. And yet, where lesser folks would have faltered and been thwarted, Ted Kennedy took up the mantle and never lost his fire and dedication to a cause greater than his own.

Rest in peace Ted. Rest in peace all of them."

(Note that the Rose Kennedy's family lost more members prematurely than those mentioned.   They lost 2 daughters and a grandson prematurely, as well as 3 sons. (Four, counting Ted -- and I think 77 IS a too young to die when you are as actively engaged as Edward M. Kennedy was. But cancer can strike at any age.)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:49 PM

Wesley, I'm not sure how well most of our lives would stand up to the kind of scrutiny that public figures are subjected to daily.

And there are a lot of people who maybe never did anything seriously bad - but never did much good for anyone either.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:53 PM

It all just seems rather ghoulish to me. Like a bunch of kids snickering on a playground.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:53 PM

"So Sharon. Will YOUR life stand up to that kind of scrutiny?"

Since my life isn't over yet, there's no telling. :-)

However, so far, at age 53, I have never been responsible for any other person's death.

Also, I'm not a U.S. Senator or any other sort of powerful person with other people's lives and welfare in my hands, so I'm not required to undergo that kind of scrutiny.

Apples and oranges, Wesley.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:54 PM

"Also, I'm not a U.S. Senator or any other sort of powerful person with other people's lives and welfare in my hands, so I'm not required to undergo that kind of scrutiny."

Lucky for you - and us....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:59 PM

Geezus, this is an OBITUARY thread.

Wesley said it--go slog it out somewhere else. Or start over, and have an obit thread where people who are sorry to see his passing can read and reflect. Some of you have all of the sensitivity and grace of hyenas.

Here are some remarks by VP Joe Biden, who served in the Senate for 36 years with Kennedy.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

"Geezus, this is an OBITUARY thread."

Exactly, SRS. It's an obituary thread: a discussion thread with an obituary posted at or near the beginning. It's NOT a eulogy thread. If you want a feel-good-only sorry-to-see-his-passing thread, then start a eulogy thread and label it as such.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

Whatever happened then, I believe that the Health Care Bill should be oncsidered his true memorial. It would be appropriate to name it the Theodore Kennedy National Health Care bill in his honor. He has been fighting for it for a very long time and has stated that he feels this is his life's work.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:13 PM

Um, EBarnacle, his name was not Theodore. It was Edward Moore Kennedy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: Beer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

"For 40 years since, Ted Kennedy has been an exemplary public figure, working to make life better in every way he could. What more could be asked of someone, whether they had an 'unfortunate incident' in their past or not?

I despair at these attempts by those who do not know to judge and decide that someone's life is defined by what they assume about something 40 years ago."

Right on Bill D.
Adrien


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:37 PM

I deal every day with combat veterans, who often are totally unable to remember the details of incidents in which they were involved and who had basically gone on a physical and mental "automatic pilot" at the time. I can't imagine that the stress of that accident and his own escape would have been any different from what they experienced.   What's that saying? Something about being without sin and casting stones?

Like I said, RIP.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:50 PM

There's a very nice tribute to Ted Kennedy at http://tedkennedy.org/.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:59 PM

The common curtesy of treating the man with respect shouldn't require a separate eulogy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:25 PM

I've looked up several definiions of "obituary", and none of them says anything about a need for it to be respectful. The definitions are all along the lines of "a notice of someone's death, usually including a short biography."

Wikipedia's definition is: "An obituary is an attempt to give an account of the texture and significance of the life of someone who has recently died." We have been discussing both the (uneven) texture and the significance (for good or ill) of Kennedy's life here; what's amiss? What's discourteous about discussing both the good and the bad parts of the deceased's life? (It's not like he's going to read it, and those who do read it should be prepared to acknowledge that a person does not suddenly become perfect when he or she dies.)

Treating the deceased with so-called "respect" by glossing over or completely ignoring the more sordid details of their lives is part-and-parcel of a eulogy or a tribute, not an obituary. So, if an "obituary thread" on Mudcat is a thread wherein only high-flying things may be said, then it is misnamed. There should be a separate prefix called "Trib" or "Eulogy" for such a thread.

Or, if it is some sort of unwritten Mudcat policy that Obit threads are equivalent to eulogies, and that posters should not mention anything less than stellar about the past of the passed, then I think that that policy should be made official, spelled out and posted in the FAQ. (It should be noted that, according to the current FAQ's "Mudcatiquette" section, Joe says he stays away from giving guidelines on etiquette.)

Otherwise, let Mudcatters say what they think about a person who is the subject of a thread, be he alive or dead. Post your own RIPs and your own eulogies if you wish, but please don't begrudge the rest of us our opinions as to how much or how little "respect" to give.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: DougR
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:36 PM

My wife and I attended a social function at Senator and Mrs. Kennedy's beautiful home on the Potomac River in McClean, Virginia one night in 1970. He was a most gracious host, as was she, as hostess. This was when he was married to his first wife, Joan.

Obviously we did not discuss politics.

He was a great liberal senator.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:53 PM

If the deceased were a relative of a member of our community, then I think it would be in bad taste to discuss his peccadillos in the Forum. If somebody here dissed Sandy Paton or Rick Fielding or other people we know, I'd most probably delete the derogatory messages right away.

But Ted Kennedy was a very public and very controversial figure. It just wouldn't be honest to discuss him without discussing the controversy.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:11 PM

Thank you, Joe. Also, thanks for verifying that this is a discussion thread.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:18 PM

Right on, Joe.

One other thing fer all you crappers... If YOU never took a drink, feel free to crucify in a holy and righteous manner. It only shows your unholiness to the world. Judge ye not lest ye be judged as a fookin idiot.

Ted was not perfect.

But let him rest in peace for his good deeds. Do the math.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:43 PM

Well Sharon, I am overjoyed for you that you don't know whether your life could stand up to the scrutiny given here.......mine could not. And I would suggest that you are probably the only one who has been so blessed as to be given the gift of perfection. I had any number of events that ended badly and I would gladly take them all back in a heartbeat. In most cases I was young and stupid and lucky to have come out the other side. Ted had an incident that by all accounts he was ashamed of and had no excuse for.........and there but for fortune went I.

I don't think we can ever pay up for the wrong we've done but some have continued to try and to even pay forward but in the end it comes to this I suppose. Some simply give up though and get the same result. Geeziz, that's sad.............

Lenny Bruce once said that if you could take the hot lead enema you could cast the first stone. I guess you're one who could take it Sharon! Wow. I'm impressed......So just bend over while I get the funnel........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:44 PM

It doesn't need to be discussed in an obit thread, though, Joe. How rude, ill-mannered and judgemental. SharonA...that is quite a declaration on your part, that he will never rest in peace. You sit at the right hand of whatever god you think might declare that? Such arrogance...speaking of karma.

Wesley, BillD, and SRS, well-said.

If anyone is interested, there is a movement, tonight, to get folks to light a candle and put it in their window in memory of Senator Kennedy. Also, here is a great speech he made last year about HEALTH CARE He would appreciate a concentration on that rather than old shit being stirred by those who weren't even there or may not have even been born.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:07 PM

Bring on the hot lead enema, Spaw. I've had colitis since I was 21 and my rectum is mostly scar tissue. I probably won't feel a thing.

Sheesh. Talk about "arrogance"... Look, Spaw, Kat and Gnu, I never claimed to be perfect. As for casting the first stone when I'm not perfect: as Joe says, we cannot discuss Ted Kennedy without discussing the Chappaquiddick controversy -- and may I remind you that I was not the first to bring it up on this thread. Where are all your slings and arrows for the other posters who mentioned it?

As for my statement that Kennedy will never rest in complete peace, what I meant was that the Chappaquiddick controversy -- and all his peccadillos and other scandolous behavior -- will follow him beyond the grave and into the history books. His legacy will never be free of that. Understand? I did not mean to make a judgment as to whether his spirit will go to heaven or hell. As I said to Genie, his redemption for the homicide of Mary Jo Kopechne is up to his God.

As for me, I do not presume to sit at any god's right hand, as Kat accuses. That's a pretty funny image, considering I'm an agnostic with atheist tendencies! I'm afraid my karma ran over Kat's dogma. :-)

Funny how those people who spout the old "Judge not lest ye be judged" verse are sooooo quick to judge and condemn others themselves... Why are you holier-than-me people filling up a thread about your idol, Ted Kennedy, with your hateful remarks about me????


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:33 PM

Homicide? He drove off a bridge. She drowned. He didn't. If he had tried to dive for her in the dark, in shock and with a possible concussion, he probably would have drowned too.   His subsequent behavior was reprehensible if he wasn't still in shock, but homicide? Not by any definition I've ever heard. (And, BTW, I wasn't a terribly big fan of his)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:40 PM

OK, Sharon, my error; then how about the Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy National Health Care Act. Good enough?

It is said that the evil that men do lives on after them while the good is oft interred with their bones. I hope not in this case. There is a lot on the positive side here to be remembered.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:45 PM

Artbrooks: Here's the legal definition from Nolo.com (http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/homicide-term.html;jsessionid=161799B1DE2632A87898C8ABF22340CF.jvm1):

"Homicide: The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal or not. Homicide is noncriminal in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony. Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly, or with extreme negligence causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are examples of criminal homicide."

So, yeah, negligent homicide. Of course, Ted Kennedy was not convicted of anything more serious than "leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury" (whereupon he received a two-month suspended sentence) because he was Ted Kennedy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM

i had never heard of teddy kennedy, before this thread.

my thought is that, yes he did terrible things,BUT by the sounds of things he spent the majority of his life trying to make up for them.

there are all things we are ashamed of and wish we could take back, but he was in a unique position to make a real difference to everyones lives.

like someone else has already said it is for himself and his god to judge and attone for his harmful actions.

i have no problem with saying the truth about the dead, they do not become saints just because they have passed. however it is surely how they try to live after making such a colosall mistake that should define them not the mistake itself.

may he be watched over and guided to the truth and find inner peace.

take care all

jade x x x x


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:26 PM

Sharon, Joe, and others, I agree that it's very reasonable to mention the relevant facts of someone's life - the good and the bad - in an obituary.   I wish, in fact, when certain other political figures -- especially Ronald Reagan -- died, that the media would have taken less of a "eulogy" approach to the discussions of their lives.    (The same was kind of done with JFK for a while, because his assassination was so shocking and he was so young.)   At any rate, I don't think one's death is a qualification for sainthood, and it's reasonable to discuss the life realistically. That's not disrespectful.   As long as it doesn't turn into a political food fight.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Beer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:29 PM

He received a thousand times more than a 2 month suspended sentence.
ad.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:30 PM

All he achieved since that night could not erase what he did, and what he did not do, that night. Sorry, but he'll never rest in complete peace.

It would have been helpful if you'd explained how you meant that. The way it reads is re' his "soul," "spirit," whatever and sounds arrogant, to me.

I spoke to a friend, tonight, who had first-hand knowledge of what kind of senator Kennedy was to his constituents. She worked in MA with the poorest of the poor, in legal services, community outreach, and, eventually in groups which recommended and worked for legislation which would help their clients. Time and again, when they invited politicians to seminars, etc. in each of the areas she worked in, Senator Kennedy or one of his staff would be there. He was the only one who made sure of that, of all the politicians and it was done quietly, no cameras, no reporters, no press releases.

She also said when she was in legal services and had a case which she felt would benefit from referral to a congressional office, she would always refer them to his AND she followed up to make sure they found some kind of satisfaction/help with their cases. Sure enough, not once did any of them say "no, he did nothing for me." It was always, "yes, thank you, Senator Kennedy helped me out." Again, these were ordinary folks, most of them living in poverty, no power that a regular pol might look for when using their power to help out AND, again, he did it quietly. Lot of folks were quite thankful for him and his service which honoured their dignity.

kat


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:34 PM

Kat, it would have been helpful if you had asked me what I meant, instead of jumping to conclusions by reading your own words into my statement! :-D


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:02 PM

Very true - the legal definition of homicide includes death by accident as well as death in self defense.   Far be it from me to make any rash assumptions as to what you may have meant, and I apologize if I made incorrect decisions based solely upon tone and context.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:18 PM

Imo, the onus is on the writer to make sure their message is clear, Sharon. I am sure I am not the only who took Sorry, but he'll never rest in complete peace to mean exactly what it says. If you meant in his place of history, etc. you should have said so, imo.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:24 PM

Sharon - It's about 6 hours later and you're still hammering away at it? OK - It's very possible that Ted screwed up. He dropped the ball. He screwed the pooch. Made a mistake. Are you happy? He had decades in the Senate. From what I understand only two other people served longer than him. But you want to make this all about one of the lowest points in his life. If that makes you happy go ahead. But it's an odd way to behave in my opinion.

C'mon - Give it a try. Say something nice about the man.

God forbid you pass away sometime soon. Would it really make any sense for your obit thread here at the Mudcat to make a big deal about a low point in your life - something like your colitis? Would that sum up your life? Would you want us to remember you that way?

"Gee that Sharon was a wonderful person - but what about her colitis? That doesn't happen to everybody you know. I wonder how that happened?"

See how silly that sounds? It makes me wonder what's really eating you about Ted Kennedy. Is there something you've left out?

I wish you a long and happy life and hope it's a very long time before we ever see an Obit thread with your name on it. Best of luck to you. And that's my last word on the subject.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:29 PM

OK, so Ted Kennedy was responsible for the death of one person, and spent the rest of his life trying to atone for it in one way or another.

George Bush, on the other hand, is responsible for the death of tens of thousands- and is proud of the fact.

Lets keep things in perspective.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Beer
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM

In a way Greg, that was the point I was making earlier when i said he received a thousand times more than a 2 month suspended sentence.
Today a man is convicted and released serving very little time and laughing on the way out. Mr.Kennedy didn't laugh. Mr. Kennedy did what was the right thing to do. He paid back to society for his mistake. And by the way, he didn't have to.
A great family with tragedies that have followed them all their lives.
Ad.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM

I agree with you, Sharon. There was never a time in the last 40 years when I saw Senator Kennedy on television that I didn't think of Mary Jo Kopechne. Nothing he ever did had any credibility for me after that.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:00 PM

Kat sez "Imo, the onus is on the writer to make sure their message is clear, Sharon. I am sure I am not the only who took Sorry, but he'll never rest in complete peace to mean exactly what it says. If you meant in his place of history, etc. you should have said so, imo."

But, Kat, you pulled that quote out of the context of my post of 26 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM, wherein I was discussing his place in history (specifically, the behaviors that had cost him the Presidency -- a higher place in history than he will have). Jeez Louise, how didactic do you require me to be in every sentence?

- - - - - - - - -

Wesley sez "C'mon - Give it a try. Say something nice about the man."

Ummmmmmmmmmmm................... Sorry. I got nuthin'. The guy just totally creeped me out.

But my colitis... Ah, therein lies a tail... I mean, tale... :-)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Raptor
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:17 PM

He did a lot of good and he did some bad. Both should be discussed.

Leave Sharron alone!

I tend to agree that one responsible for antoher's death might not rest in peace either. Not to say I wish that upon anyone just that they MAY never rest in peace. (who knows)

I wonder how the deceased girl's mother feels about Mr. Kennedy?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:28 PM

Genie, Art, Rig and Raptor: Thank you!

EBarnacle: Yup, good enough. Sounds like a plan.

Wesley: I appreciate the long-life-and-luck blessing. Right back at ya.

G'night, all.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:33 PM

In tribute to Senator "Ted" Kennedy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc6mcKUucaw&search=I%27ll%20Fly%20Away%20brother%20where%20out%20thou

"Farther Along" By The Peasall Sisters


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:36 PM

I started a new thread, labled as such for respectful discussion of Kennedy's life. Clones, please DO NOT merge the threads.

Those of you who are so intent on harping on partisan politics, who would smear his entire life and career based upon some bad decisions (far outweighed by good works), and insulting those of us who wish to remember Kennedy fondly, stay on this thread and duke it out amongst yourselves. I'm frankly ashamed of you.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:21 AM

Sorry, SRS, but I'm not going to protect that thread. If you have personal hangups about what you say about the dead, that's fine - but I don't think it's right for you to expect to be able to control what other people have to say. If there's any trouble in that thread, I'll close it and I won't allow another attempt.

I will say this: When the accident happened at Chappaquiddick forty years ago in in 1969, Ted Kennedy escaped - but then he went for help and went back to the scene of the accident to try to free Kopechne from the wreckage. If he really was a coward, he wouldn't have gone back. Still, he certainly wasn't as heroic as one might hope a Kennedy would be. Joe and Jack and Bobby all died martyrs. Teddy didn't show the heroism of his brothers, but what he did was certainly understandable.

And then there was his first marriage and divorce. Certainly not exemplary, I'd say - so much so, that his ex-wife wrote a book about it. According to most acounts, Teddy Kennedy was a boozer and a philanderer during his first marriage, although his second marriage seemed to be very solid. From all appearances, Victoria is a remarkable woman.

But despite all that, he was an excellent senator - they don't make senators any better than Teddy Kennedy. He had his own philosophical viewpoint which favored those who weren't wealthy or powerful, but he was certainly not a mindless ideologue. He knew how to negotiate and how to compromise, in order to get at least part of his goals accomplished for his constituents.

He wasn't an icon. He was a real human being - flawed, but able to overcome his flaws and accomplish far more than his brothers were able to accomplish in their short lives. I think his life is a wonderful lesson for all of us who realize we aren't perfect. Despite our imperfections, we have to carry on. If we don't, nobody will.

God bless you, Ted Kennedy. You had your faults, but you did a lot of good. I'm sure you're in Heaven today.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Genie
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:38 AM

I think that's a good idea, Stilly.

However you feel about Ted Kennedy's political views - and I know we're not all on the same wavelength here - or Chappaquiddick (which was 40 years ago), I don't think it all has to be rehashed in every thread about Kennedy's death.

And, since I'm in this thread, for what it's worth, I don't think Mary Jo Kopechne's death was ever ruled a homicide, of any sort. We will probably never know, but if, in fact, Kennedy was not intoxicated and the car went off the bridge due to road conditions - it happens - it wasn't not a homicide, negligent or otherwise. It' was an accidental death.

If we are going to express reasonable criticism of Ted Kennedy, I hope it won't fall along strict partisan lines. I appreciate what you said, Doug R. And Ron Reagan had his mom, Nancy, on his radio show tonight. She didn't get political. She just expressed her great friendship with Ted Kennedy and admiration for him as a person and sorrow at his loss.
I was very glad to hear that.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 01:41 AM

The ideologues hated Ted Kennedy - because he was not an ideologue, and they didn't understand him. But there were many people, both Republicans and Democrats, who have stepped forward to honor this great man who listened to both sides of every argument and tried to find the common ground. Maybe he realized his imperfections, and maybe that made him into a man who could respect and listen to those who disagreed with him.
I know I'm not perfect. I hope I can do the same as Ted Kennedy.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:13 AM

I like the Obits of public figures to be "warts and all" discussion.

Frankly I wouldn't bother reading them if they weren't, because I wouldn't learn anything about the person from them.

I agree with SharonA's comment about Obits being *discussion*, as opposed to 'Tributes'. I didn't know much about Ted Kennedy, so I find the background of real interest.

Honestly discussing a public figures life in an Obit, including the darker facets, is a good thing. I don't like sugar coated whitewashes. Telling the truth, isn't "bitching" or disrespectful. Jeddy's right, just 'cos someone died, it doesn't make them a saint.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:16 AM

The heros we lionize says a great deal about ourselves.

EXCERPTS -

THE MAIL on-line August 27, 2009

Ted Kennedy: The Senator of Sleaze who was a drunk sexual bully... and left a young woman to die

By Charlie Laurence

A drunk Ted had been driving back from a party to the family 'compound' on Martha's Vineyard when he veered off a bridge and into a deep tidal dyke.

It was nine hours before he reported the accident. In the meantime, he walked back to his motel, complained to the manager about a noisy party, took a shower, went to sleep, ordered newspapers when he woke up and spoke to a friend and two lawyers before finally calling the police.

Divers later estimated that if he had called them immediately, they would have had time to pull out Mary Jo. She had not drowned, but had survived in an air pocket inside the car - she was asphyxiated only when the oxygen ran out several hours later.

As he entered the Senate, Kennedy was admired for his commanding 6ft 2in stature and the good looks that seemed a family blessing. But he was already drinking and womanising with the greed that has become known as a vice of Kennedy men.

His brothers got away with it, but Ted Kennedy's divorce removed the last bounds of shame and he plunged into a life that left him looking like a Saturday night drunk, waving a bottle and calling for any woman who could tolerate him. He staggered from scandal to scandal, reduced to fodder for lurid ' supermarket' tabloid newspapers.

One congressional aide, just 16, told of being propositioned by Kennedy from the back seat of his limousine in Capitol Hill. She testified that he leaned from the window, waved a wine bottle and asked whether she or a friend she was with wanted to join him.

He reeked of drink by nine in the morning and could be relied on to be bawling drunk at four in the afternoon. In Washington's top La Brasserie restaurant, he once threw a waitress over a table in a private room and tried to have sex with her.

His face, once handsome, became as round as a football, bloated and criss-crossed with the broken veins of an out-of-control drinker.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1209313/Ted-Kennedy-The-Senator-Sleaze-drunk-sexual-bully--left-young-woman-die.html


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:49 AM

LMAO......Thanks for that unbiased reporting Garg. I'm sure such a reliable reporting source such as The Mail with no agenda except the truth is to be believed by all.....of the dimwitted, dumbass, bigoted, shitkickers, the world over. Send Sharon a subscription on me. I'd be happy to get one for you but I think you already have one.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:56 AM

"It was nine hours before he reported the accident. In the meantime, he walked back to his motel, complained to the manager about a noisy party, took a shower, went to sleep, ordered newspapers when he woke up and spoke to a friend and two lawyers before finally calling the police.

Divers later estimated that if he had called them immediately, they would have had time to pull out Mary Jo. She had not drowned, but had survived in an air pocket inside the car - she was asphyxiated only when the oxygen ran out several hours later."

Not a fan of The Mail, but I was wondering if this statement is factually correct? If so, the incident is certainly worthy of comment in the context of an obituary.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:58 AM

isn't it about time to let sharon off now?

that 'report' sounds very one sided. still if it sold copies who cares whether it is balence and true? this is why i don't buy any papers, because you just get sensational stories with no basis in fact.

thanks C.S   no one is perfect and i would hate anyone to forget my flaws when i am gone, it would prove they really didn't know me at all. we are usually our own biggest critics and we judge ourselves the most harshly.

take care all

jade x x x x


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 08:16 AM

CS.......There is a plethora of books on the entire affair and not all agree what happened. Nor do the medical or police reports and analysis all agree.

Factually known? Kennedy was drunk and drove off the bridge. His passenger (for whatever reason), Mary Jo Kopechne dies as a result. Kennedy's actions were erratic in the aftermath and less than heroic. He expressed both regret and shame, but not in a timely fashion.

Beyond that, theories abound and every author seems to have one. Most claim they have uncovered new evidence which they really haven't. The truth of the night died with Kennedy and he well may have shared everything he actually knew....or not.

On the flip side, take a look at what bills he authored and the legislation he pushed through. Like I said, maybe we can never pay for our wrongs but he tried. He had both flaws and greatness. Many don't seem to see that or can't get past Mary Jo.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM

Ya Cats one dead girl and they call you bad, unbelievable.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:30 AM

In between all the news about Michael Jackson I heard something about Ted Kennedy dieing of a brain disorder. I turned to CNN and there was Sen. Orrin Hatch saying "Ted Kennedy was a monstrously partisan tax and spend Liberal. No one matched his verbiosity..."

Hmmm

I heard more reasoned accounts of his life and death on npr.

My wife had the wonderful opportunity to work with this man and at a facility sponsored by his siter Eunice. I only met him once here in DC. Everything about him was unselfish.   His dedication to justice fairness and the dignity of the common man and woman is unmatched by anyone I know perhaps due to the crippling breaks he recieved in his early life.
Hemmingway wrote, "Everyone's life is broken in places but there are rare people who grow stronger at those breaks and become larger than life itself.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Arkie
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:23 AM

Ted Kennedy had his personal demons, but he also used his talent, wealth, and influence to make life richer and more satisfying for the common folk of this country. He could have lived a life of luxury and indulged himself completely, but he chose to battle for those others would repress and exploit. His political life was spent serving the people of his state and country and he served them well. He died with the welfare of his country on his mind.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:51 AM

Sharon's right.....Mr Kennedy was 100% "liberal" and 100% hypocrite.

It's easy to be a "liberal" when your born with a silver spoon in yer mouth.

The whole family including old Joe and JFK were no sort of role models....Capitalist to the core and carrying the guilt that only the ultra rich know!

Destructive lifestyles.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:41 PM

There's what he was, and there's what he accomplished. May be two sides of the same coin, but the former doesn't negate the latter.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:44 PM

Probably just as well Jesse Helms died first, or he'd be quick to hop on this thread also.

The News & Observer, a North Carolina newspaper.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:14 PM

Donuel says: I turned to CNN and there was Sen. Orrin Hatch saying "Ted Kennedy was a monstrously partisan tax and spend Liberal. No one matched his verbiosity..."

This is another quote you'll find only on Mudcat. You heard it here first, folks, straight from Donuel's rather vivid imagination.

So, what's the truth, Donuel?

The truth is that Senator Hatch had some wonderful things to say about Ted Kennedy. See CBS News for moving tributes from Hatch and other members of the Senate. Also see the Los Angeles Times for how Hatch responded to Kennedy's seizure at the Inaugural luncheon. The press often referred to Republican Hatch as a "very close friend" of Ted Kennedy. In a very moving article, the Deseret News of Utah described old friends Hatch and Kennedy as "the odd couple." Hatch and Kennedy were wonderful examples of how respect and friendship can overcome ideological differences and bring about reasonable and workable compromise.

Donuel, if you keep twisting the truth, how can you expect anybody to believe you?

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: ADD: Headed Home (Sen. Orrin Hatch & Phil Springer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:43 PM

Oh, and since this is a music forum, let's take a look at the song Republican Senator Orrin Hatch wrote to honor his friend Ted Kennedy:

HEADED HOME
(Senator Orrin Hatch and Phil Springer)

Through the darkness
We can find a pathway
That will take us half way
To the stars.

Through the rain and fog
We can find a clear day
Shoo the shadows and doubts away
And touch the legacy that is ours.

Yours and mine
And our children's
For all time.

Just honor him
Honor him
And every fear
Will be a thing of the past.

America, America
We're headed home
We're headed home
At last.

Just honor him
Honor him
And on the reefs of despair
We shall not crash.

America
America
We're sailing home
Sailing home
America
America
We're headed home
Headed home
At last.


Song text from this video and article (click) from ABC news. I'm not sure I like the song all that much, but I sure appreciate the sentiments.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:49 PM

Better fasten your seat belts Joe....Just in case.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, Joe. It needed to be said. I think I'll post this:

"Personally, I mourn the loss of my dear friend Ted Kennedy. I will miss sparring with him over policy, his unparalleled skills as a legislator, his wonderful sense of humor, and his generous nature. And Americans from all points on the political spectrum can surely admire the example of a United States senator who was dedicated to the last to advancing the vision of America that he held so dearly." Senator Orrin Hatch

Orrin Hatch's REAL Opinion of Ted Kennedy


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM

Regarding the "Heading Home" song whose link Joe posted:

See these two viewer's comments from the YouTube video:
(which isn't a video and doesn't include a photo collage, but does have one photo of Senator Kennedy and Senator Hatch)


zipster53:

"Senator Hatch:
As a further tribute to your old friend, could you help fulfill Senator Kennedy's dream of ensuring all Americans affordable health care? That would be a real tribute to Teddy."

**

mukome:

"Dear Senator Hatch,

Everyone on the YouTubes is saying this is you singing.

Please inform people that the singer is actually Tony Middleton. Thank you."

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=Hr5oyEDGYkw&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DHr5oyEDGYkw


**

For what it's worth, if I were rating this song on my aesthetic scale, I'd give it a "3" out of a possible "5" (with "5" being the highest). I thought the words & the tune were just okay. But the tempo dragged a bit for my taste.

And, also for what it's worth, I co-sign what zipster53 wrote. If Senator Hatch wants to honor his friend Senator Kennedy, he'll support the public option in the health care bill, and he'll advocate for that option among his fellow Republicans.

Do you see either of these real ways to honor Senator Kennedy happening?

Me neither.

For that reason, I'd give that song a FAIL.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,Cocytus
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:33 PM

I'm glad Ted Kennedy is in his new resting place.

Dante's Hell, Level 9 - Cocytus

This is the deepest level of hell, where the fallen angel Satan himself resides. His wings flap eternally, producing chilling cold winds that freeze the thick ice found in Cocytus. The three faces of Satan, black, red, and yellow, can be seen with mouths gushing bloody foam and eyes forever weeping, as they chew on the three traitors, Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. This place is furthest removed from the source of all light and warmth. Sinners here are frozen deep in the ice, faces out, eyes and mouths frozen shut. Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in this frigid pit of despair.

He would have got there a lot sooner if his Deathcare was in place. No brain tumor treatment for anyone in their seventies.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:18 PM

Azizi, I don't think Ted Kennedy would have expected Orrin Hatch to sell out to the other side. What Hatch and Kennedy did that was so remarkable, was that they were able to do the hard work to harrmer out a compromise that served the needs of all.

-Joe-

Oh, and Cocytus, welcome to the Mudcat Cafe. Remember to use the same name each and every time you post.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:25 PM

Reality will be resumed on the Sheehan thread!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: civilservant
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 06:25 PM

A couple of anagrams

Edward Kennedy - Ed randy, Ed knew!

Senator Edward Kennedy - Drowns dear and keen yet


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:41 PM

Joe, the public option is a compromise.

And that's all I'm gonna write in this thread besides RIP, Senator Kennedy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:46 PM

JAFP - Just another politician.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,bflat
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:48 PM

As I watched the News Hour with Jim Leherer this evening, the lead story was of Sen. Kennedy's passing. Among the comments of average people was the story of the young girl who he mentored in a reading program, one on one. Apparently, this was something he did regularly with this child, building a relationship to encourage education. When he became ill he wrote to her that he wouldn't be able to continue and sent along an autographed book with a personal message to hopefully inspire her to continue to enjoy reading. I believe he also secured his replacement. She is still too young to fully appreciate the Senators' involvement in establishing the literacy program, but one day she is likely to understand.
There doesn't seend to be that there was ever an occasion for hoopla, or political breast pounding as far as I can see. I think this example tells a lot about a person. To me, he is a man who had redeemed himself. And his legislative oeuvre earned him the love and respect of millions of Americans and Internationals.

Ellen


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:36 PM

I got this on an e-mail list today, and thought it might be of interest to many of you. The memorial service startes at 7PM Mudcat time, not long from now.
-Joe-

    Dear Joe,

    Tonight, we will celebrate Senator Kennedy's life at a memorial service at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston.

    We would like to remember his life in the same way as he lived it: with all of you.

    Join us at 7 p.m. on TedKennedy.org, which will feature a live video stream of the service:

    http://www.tedkennedy.org/live

    Tens of thousands of you have shared your memories and sympathies with us in person at the library, on TedKennedy.org, Facebook, or Twitter.

    Your words have made us laugh, cry, and remember. We could not be more appreciative. Thank you.

    The Kennedy Family

    p.s. If you'd like to share your own memories of the Senator, please click here:


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 07:08 PM

The memorial service is on now: http://www.tedkennedy.org/live

Who was the sailing buddy with the curly hair, who spoke early in the service? Most of the speeches were very good, but this guy had a screw loose. Oh, it was Congressman Joseph P. Kennedy II.

The guy who sang "Love Changes Everything" wasn't a professional singer, but he sang it with heart. I've always liked that song.

The Governor of Massachusetts gave a moving speech, and said some wonderful things about Kennedy's love of singing. That's something I hadn't know about Ted Kennedy.

John McCain's speech was very good, but the first speech that moved me to tears, were John Kerry's and that of Orrin Hatch. the list of speakers is here (click). It's interesting that no women spoke, except for Caroline Kennedy at the end.
Joe Biden and Caroline Kennedy did the final speeches, and moved me to tears. Then everybody sang "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling," and it was over.

What stuck me most was how very human this evening was. It wasn't a political event, even though almost all of the speakers were politicians. These were people grieving a man they loved, telling loving stories about him. It was over three hours long, and I'm glad I watched the whole thing.

God bless you, Ted Kennedy.

-Joe Offer- (revised at 10:25 PM, EDT)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:59 PM

"...spoke to a friend and two lawyers before finally calling the police."

ObSongs: In Leslie Fish's version of this nasty story, it was some family members and his campaign manager.

If that is a libel, it is pretty vile. If it is true,....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Alice
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:19 PM

A news story on this yesterday described how the family would sing around the table at the end of dinner, and this became even more important to Ted Kennedy in the last year of his life. His wife Vickie gave him the gift of singing lessons because she knew he loved it so much. He would sing in his office, in the hallways of the Senate, while sailing... it was a part of his life and what the family also considered as part of their Irish American heritage.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:16 PM

I think he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer of the Kennedy clan but he did his best with the material at hand, which I find genuinely inspirational.

His moral career is somewhat checkered going back to his college days and lasting into his dotage, but I think he meant to do well for the most part and he certainly could have done worse.

He came to my high school arguing against the Volunteer Army and asked our assembly: "How many of you are in favor of a Volunteer Army?"
All hands rose.
"How many of you would volunteer?"
All hands fell.
I agreed with him on that.

I was visiting his offices in DC during his brief run for President. His offices were loud with the ringing of every phone and harried staff trying to stem some reportorial tide. I found out later that someone had stuck a microphone in his face and asked him why he wanted to be President and he'd stumbled the answer.

His campaign against Mitt Romney in the 90's used anti-Mormon tactics and it made me believe that he had outlived his career.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: GUEST,Yar it's me
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 01:48 AM

Widespread -- and credible -- supposition suggests that the young woman whom he left trapped in the submerged car had an air supply and died of suffocation. Due to Kennedy's cowardice and grotesque self-servitude, he and confederates neglected to dial for emergency services and didn't call the authorities for 10 hours. It's very reasonable to believe -- if you give credence to the suffocation-rather-than-drowning theory -- that she could have been saved if emergency-response had been quickly called in, rather than the 10-hour delay in which Kennedy went to bed and presumably tried to sober up and weighed his "options" while Mary Jo was left trapped and alone in the dark to suffocate.

Due to the 10-hour delay Kennedy should have been imprisoned, and exiled from holding public office. Any "ordinary" person would have been prosecuted enthusiastically. But he was connected, and he was a Kennedy. Had it went to a jury, I think it would have been a quick deliberation.

As to the disgustingly disingenuous and/or hypocritical and/or unforgivably obtuse liberals here who will defend any and all actions of any and all self-serving power-hungry leftist hacks with a "D" next to their name -- eat crap, creeps. You wackos are pathological. Maybe take a visit over at HuffPo; I understand there's a really sickening article there titled "What Would Mary Jo Kopechne Have Thought of Ted's Career?" that fairly illustrates the nausea-inducing can of worms of the typical reprobate liberal mind.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:49 AM

The funeral is on now. Wish I had time to watch it - click.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Sen. Edward M. 'Ted' Kennedy (1932-2009)
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:43 AM

As for Chappaquiddick, it made a difference of course. I think suppositions are just that, and just about worthless. Massachusetts loves the Kennedys, and there was an unspoken understanding (probably spoken a little I s'pose) that Teddy made a fine Senator, but would never be President.

He was not loved without reason.

Considering the outpourings of hagiography over President Reagan, the memorialization of Senator Ted is small potatoes.


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