BS: What went Big Bang?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 03:52 PM

Douglas Adams was an ambitious student revue writer and director at Cambridge while I was The Guardian's theatre critic for thereabouts, so he was constantly on the phone soliciting reviews for his revues. All v well with your 'if I had a fiver'; but some people must have known him, and one such just happened to be me.

A hint to your dear little self — nobody loves a smart·ɷ
Do you take pleasure in being a disagreeable smarmy sarky little oik, I wonder, or can you just not help it?

I was in the Royal Army Service Corps, as it happens -- real military glory for you there! Outrank the Paras and the SAS any day of the week -- just ask anyone who knows any military history. Though, as it just happens, the Paras chanced to occupy the next barracks along in Aldershot to the ones (Oudenarde Barracks) where I did part of my training; so who knows what dust from the red berets may have blown along & penetrated our far humbler quarters! But you're too young for National Service, of course, aintcha -- you young people today: don't know you're bloody born!
chunterchunterchunterchu

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:45 PM

I rest my case.

What went hippopotamus?

What went Nurse!!!

If I had a fiver for everyone who "knew" Douglas Adams eh? Another fiver for everyone who reckons they were in the 'paras (or SAS after a few pints) and I'd be able to pay for English lessons.

You are wrong anyway. He's at The Big Bang Burger Bar. Having a listen on behalf of his best mate apparently. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:07 PM

Not but what the reference to the work of my late good friend Mr D Adams could have been of service, for which my thanks. But, alas, he departed lamentably prematurely and is now doubtless dining in the Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, and so is unavailable for consultation.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:00 PM

To 'go bang' is a perfectly familiar and comprehensible idiom, whichever·Popgun·it·may·be that is on idiot-of-self-making duty tonight. Any stylistic objection that any lamebrain might have to it would not be on any grounds of 'grammar', whatever else. The day you can teach me anything about our language, you petty ineffectual ignoramus, just listen out for Gabriel's Golden Horn. Meanwhile, go and -- uh -- service your physical needs, if you please.

☠ · ☠

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:42 PM

Pedant alert.

The thread title is grammatically clumsy. Tut tut.

Eccentrica Gallumbits, the triple breasted whore of Eroticon 6 once described Zaphod Beeblebrox as the best bang since the big one. Does that help with your imagery Michael?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:41 PM

The problem is predicated on a time-stream that predates the big Bang, as though the universe was already in time. This is a primitive Newtonian idea. If there is any merit to the notion that the universe was born in the Big Bang, surely it implies that all space and time began then, as well? From this perspective the word "before" in a temporal sense, is semantically null.

Some possible answers might include: a previous universe that had condensed to near absolute zero dimension; a community of non-material viewpoints needing a game to amuse themselves; or a singular decision by one extraordinarily large viewpoint. This last strikes me as the least likely. I suspect an agreement by a very large number of viewpoints convincing each other. That interpretation leads tot he conclusion that spacetime as we experience it is merely an average of shared illusion. But who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 10:30 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 03:35 PM

i was in the scottish museum on chambers street, edinburgh last december ('11) and watched a film about the big bang in the space section, explaining that the earth was formed following the big bang 13.7 billion years ago. i was back in the museum a few weeks back and the film is still claiming it was 13.7 billion years ago, even though it's - nearly -a year later! if they can't even be bothered to be accurate it leads me to think they don't really know. or -as ever- museum staff are just a load of lazy, lying ba****ds!

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:43 PM

For me and many scientists
God

but that is just my opinion

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:24 PM

The answer, technically and scientifically, as far as I have determined is that we don't know. More precisely we cannot know.

The one agreed upon fact about what went Big Bang is that, since it is the one point of origin of out whole universe, we cannot know what came before it we have no information about its nature before it banged. To know this we would have to have detecting instruments in some meta-universe, observing this one sending us signals from before time as we know it existing.

Can that happen?

Maybe. It is possible, I guess.

Is it probable?

Nope.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

I have a friend who used to ridicule me by asking why, logically, there should be something rather than nothing.

One day I responded by asking why, logically, there should be nothing rather than something.

Something went bang. There is no logical reason why that something (which contained our later universe at the very least) should not have been eternal in itself, the end result of an eternity of earlier processes.

There's no particular reason to assume that the entire cosmos must have had a First Cause. Why not? Because the entire cosmos is different in kind than the individual elements in it, all of which do appear to require a previous cause.

A crowd of people is quite distinct from the individuals within it, and it follows different rules. A crowd, for example, can break up, then reassemble with some different members. No individual can do that.

A collective totality doesn't usually have just the same characteristics as its constituents. The same principle ought to apply to the cosmos.

Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 09:38 AM

Was it the little baby Jesus?
No.

Was it a term guaranteed to mean nothing in the BANG sense but assured to wind Fred Hoyle up? (A bit of truth in that one, from what we read.)
I thought it was his derogatory term for the theory.

Was it when time began so not really a bang as a bang is a result of something
Says who?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 08:39 AM

Always fascinated by those who say science doesn't have an answer and then try proposing a silly religious one...

So, what was the big bang?

Was it the little baby Jesus?

Was it a term guaranteed to mean nothing in the BANG sense but assured to wind Fred Hoyle up? (A bit of truth in that one, from what we read.)

Was it when time began so not really a bang as a bang is a result of something and this bang was a cause...

Tell you what, there are two related threads active at present; both with polarised views and bollocks spouted. Put this old thread into the debate and the usual suspects can type away merrily till Xmas.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:42 AM

y'know, Patsy.... I kinda got to mulling over that situation myself about 7-8... if no Santa, then what about...........the Easter Bunny!

I was the kind of kid who wanted to know 'why' & 'how', even to demanding explanations when told "tornadoes come from the Southwest".
The really BIG bang, I put off for several years, slyly conducting my own 'experiments' to see if I'd be struck by lightning if I did certain things.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 10:17 AM

The big bang came when I was brutally told at 8 years old that Santa did not exist. After all those years of putting out nuts, carrots and glasses of sherry and being good. Made it very hard to believe in anything after that.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 08:08 PM

missed the response, Slag

no, don't know them all by heart, but I have a couple books with the verses, and I assume they can be found with Google.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Slag
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 07:23 AM

Do you know all the verses?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 08:29 PM

no, the song says nothing about 'big'....just bang, bang

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Slag
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 07:48 PM

...or so the song goes.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Slag
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 07:47 PM

Lulu

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 08:04 PM

without having actual proof.

Nobody,ever,anywhere has had "actual proof" of anything.

All we've ever had is reasons why we should think one thing rather than another. That involves having some kind of decision- making process that says one thing is more likely than another. So we have ideas about evidence. Note the "we". Everybody is allowed to see. You just gave to educate yourself enough to see what is the difference between more likely and less likely.

"I'm just kinda thinking of the damage they're doing to children, young people and adults in deluding them.."

Kids ask "why"... "why"...

So do scientists. They have answers that fit the "why", with evidence. Holy basketfuls of it, including "what went before life" (they don't know, but the evidence shows it could have been...") and "what went before the Big Bang" (questions about what "before" means when time doesn't exist). And like kids, each answer only brings another "why"...

The only damage you can do to kids is by stopping the questioning, and scientists are really just big kids.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 06:43 PM

Carol, scientific dogma is an oxymoron. Science is antithetical to dogma because each
theory is subject to revision when it is tested. A true scientist is never dogmatic because
the process of discovery requires constant empirical revision. Theories and "theorums"
will be changed as new information is discovered.

From what we know now, the Big Bang was soundless. There were no soundwaves.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 12:51 PM

The Big Bang was the sound of God angrily slamming shut his front door

after he told us to turn the music down,
clean the sick off his living room carpet,
pack our bags
and eff off and look after ourselves..

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM

Yup, I noticed.. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 12:15 PM

"...so I fail to understand the ..."

such a lot of things *I* fail to understand about how various folks think... ☺

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 11:57 AM

Yup, speculation. Exactly! So why do so many scientists ridicule those who believe in God, whomsoever their 'God' may be?

None of us has the answer, nor ever will, so I fail to understand the arrogance of some..

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 11:43 AM

"How come scientists, have, for so long now, said that the universe began with the Big Bang..."

Not really a very long time as these things go...

But they say that because most of the evidence from the Hubble telescope and other recently invented technology....plus the math that describes it all...seems to point that way. And they keep getting 13.7 billion years as a date. When careful studies point that way, you go with it while you do MORE research.

Not very many feel they will ever be able to see back to 'before' the Big Bang...so folks just speculate.

Subject: BS: The Big Bang Delusion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 07:33 AM

How come scientists, have, for so long now, said that the universe began with the Big Bang, when they have no evidence of what caused The Big Bang, or where it came from?

I'm just kinda thinking of the damage they're doing to children, young people and adults in deluding them in this way, without having actual proof.

And whilst we're on the subject, would Darwin have been pro-God if his daughter had lived?

I mean, I'm OK with the evolution thing, but if you go back to the very first Evoluted Thing, well...from whence did it come?

I really think that without more *definite* evidence, the scientists don't really have a great deal on their side, other than delusion of course.....

Oh, and than Faith in their Belief..

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:33 AM

It seems I was diverted by wordy minutia and trying to show a picture of this new cosmological idea (which is not crazy) so...
   IN A PLAIN SPOKEN NUTSHELL;

In my thought experiment I sought an answer to the question of why our observable universe IS ACCELERATING in its expansion at this time when it should have slowed from the measurable gravity of our universe which is surprisingly 10 times "heavier" than we expected with what we have chosen to call unseen dark matter and dark energy.

Picture a young universe that cools enough to have gravity create luminal stars and then later super massive black holes like quasars. As more stuff goes down the throat of a growing number of singularities within black holes in our aging universe, that stuff might just be entering a higher enveloping dimension.
As that higher dimension accumulates more stuff, the gravity in that higher enveloping dimension begins to pull the stuff in our observable universe faster and faster! Voila!!





That was it in a nutshell,
all the other ideas like time being relative to each dimension seperately implies time is not a 4th dimension but merely a relative directional movement, are just icing on the cake. If indeed the singularity is the door to enveloping higher dimensions of our universe, it may be like a growing sea shell that seals off chambers to entropy as higher dimensional chambers continue to grow.


I am continually interested in anyone's experience in picturing dimensions outside our traditional 3.
Have you seen a hypercube in 3D yet?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:52 PM

I do feel it was a lot like a nocturnal emission---on a big scale.

I even think Hubble got a picture of it.
Check APOD!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:01 PM

More religio-cosmic crap:
After the big bang Mother Cosmos and child
Mother of all Cosmos

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: TheSnail
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:54 PM

Myself
I can't find my reading glasses.

Whilst looking for a wedding invitation, I found my reading glasses.... but not the wedding invitation.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

Imagine that an 'exploding singularity' is not a unique event in, but happens frequently in cosmology terms, then take the thought further and imagine a vast number of 'unexploded singularities', maybe one in the beer that you just drank.... that could go off at any moment......

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:38 PM

I am used to witty remarks like:
I have seen better art on napkins, or My dog makes sculptures like that every morning.

One thing about dimensions is that each higher dimension surrounds the one before it in dimensions 1-3, yet when a dimension is so small as to wrap around itself, it really isn't bigger than the lower numbered dimension but still is everywhere around the prior dimension. weird huh

For string theory math to work they say you need about 11 dimensions.
Some super symmetry fans prefer 10 dimensions. Different things leak from one dimension to another such as virtual particles or gravitons.

Now there is even talk that a Lee set of 246 levels is the grand unifying number of dimension like vectors that compose the universe.

Still I would prefer an even 10 or even the Hitch Hikers #42.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:33 PM

Ah, but is the Klein bottle half full or half empty?


(Sorry, it's late.)

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:59 PM

..perhaps you two can share a drink from one of those Klein bottles? ☺

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:49 PM

Art and new ideas are not valid or invalid based upon what an observer initially sees.

I would never have said so. If I say I'm sorry again can we move on?

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:09 PM

btw the NPR Chiluli documentary on his Venice works was very good.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:06 PM

Musethief,
Art and new ideas are not valid or invalid based upon what an observer initially sees.
What I made had 5 distinct directions which can be interpreted as dimensions. Once one sees the sea shell spiral, one might then see other vectors going in different directions from the other vectors. The details of these directions are not clearly seen from a gestalt POV. Painting what is essentially a double Klien bottles inside double Klien bottles like a fractal, might be done better by you but it was the best I could paint in one sitting.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM

I'm impressed. I've heard of Chihuly, but doubt if I could spell it.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

Chihuly calls Tacoma his home, and I live less than 10 miles from Tacoma. His art is all over the city, the most wonderful piece (in my eyes) being the one hanging from the central dome of the old Union Station (now a federal courthouse building). It is also the home of the international Glass Museum.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

Heck, *I* know Chihuly's name, and have seen both videos of him working (or directing his elves) & stills of some of his exhibitions.

I saw a very few items on display at the Seattle airport years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 03:07 PM

I'm impresssed you know Chihuly's name, but I guess he's more famous up in your neck of the woods...


A

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 02:21 PM

aww mousethief, you are usually a better sport.

All I saw was a Chihuly glass ball superimposed with I know not what. Sorry to be negative.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:20 PM

I also do religious paintings...

The Earth at the moment of birth from the vagina of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 11:44 AM

Hydrogen farts! Intriguing...

aww mousethief, you are usually a better sport. I think my relative time scale differences for different dimensions idea was rather clever.

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,Uncle Rumpo
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 10:01 AM

"What went Big Bang?"


Big BANG Theory:


God farted and followed through...


Billions of years later


..that's how we now got me and you...

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: GUEST,pete
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:53 AM

i recommend creation.com-to any willing to consider science from a theistic presupposition as opposed to a evolutionary pressuposition

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 01:09 AM

overlay of big bang background radiation

Subject: RE: BS: What went Big Bang?
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:42 PM

Put your analyst on danger money. ;)