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BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia

Rasener 03 Oct 09 - 05:05 AM
Spleen Cringe 03 Oct 09 - 05:11 AM
Eric the Viking 03 Oct 09 - 06:44 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 03 Oct 09 - 09:44 AM
s&r 03 Oct 09 - 11:18 AM
Mrrzy 03 Oct 09 - 11:41 AM
CarolC 03 Oct 09 - 12:29 PM
CarolC 03 Oct 09 - 12:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Oct 09 - 12:40 PM
Emma B 03 Oct 09 - 01:41 PM
Emma B 03 Oct 09 - 02:33 PM
Cats 03 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM
Rasener 03 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM
Little Robyn 03 Oct 09 - 09:29 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 04:25 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,Helen 04 Oct 09 - 06:00 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 06:17 AM
GUEST,Helen 04 Oct 09 - 06:23 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,Helen 04 Oct 09 - 06:35 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 06:46 AM
Jack Campin 04 Oct 09 - 07:22 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 07:45 AM
s&r 04 Oct 09 - 08:16 AM
Jack Campin 04 Oct 09 - 08:25 AM
Emma B 04 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 08:36 AM
Emma B 04 Oct 09 - 08:41 AM
Cats 04 Oct 09 - 08:44 AM
Cats 04 Oct 09 - 08:50 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 09:04 AM
Jack Campin 04 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM
Emma B 04 Oct 09 - 09:34 AM
Spleen Cringe 04 Oct 09 - 09:59 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 10:09 AM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 10:23 AM
Spleen Cringe 04 Oct 09 - 10:30 AM
Emma B 04 Oct 09 - 10:31 AM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 12:18 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 12:26 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 12:32 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 12:38 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 12:48 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 01:12 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 01:18 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 01:22 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 01:38 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 01:42 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 01:47 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 01:55 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 02:21 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 02:22 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 02:28 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 02:29 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 02:32 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 02:35 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 02:37 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 02:39 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 02:44 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 02:45 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 02:47 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 02:50 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 02:54 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 03:05 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 03:08 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 03:09 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 03:10 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 03:23 PM
Cats 04 Oct 09 - 03:34 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 03:36 PM
Rasener 04 Oct 09 - 03:39 PM
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CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 03:59 PM
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Jack Campin 04 Oct 09 - 05:33 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Oct 09 - 06:27 PM
CarolC 04 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM
Jack Campin 04 Oct 09 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Helen 04 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 05 Oct 09 - 04:02 AM
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Subject: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:05 AM

There is a lot of arguments going on in the Home teaching Uk thread and it has heavily involved people with Dyslexia.

Thought I would start this thread so that people could post positive things that help people with Dyslexia and also help those who do not have this to understand more how they can help or understand Dyslexia.

Its not meant to be a slagging match again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:11 AM

Thanks for starting this thread. Les. Can I echo your plea for people to keep it positive and on-subject?

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:44 AM

Spend some time revisiting phonics to help with de-coding and word formation. Patience !! and small steps. Demonstrate the worth of a person is not decided on whether they can read or write (After all these skills are not the most important skills to have)build up confidence in their ability. A lot of schools up here use "Buff" coloured paper. Use Blue not black on white boards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:44 AM

Things that help?

Well, you can ensure that the school uses its own love of testing and examining to ensure that every single teacher who works in a school, no matter at what level, first has to pass an exam on 'The Understanding Of Dyslexia'.



Things that help?

Realising that dyslexia is NOT a disease that can be cured, but a perfectly natural way for the brain to work.


Things that help?

For the Government to compensate every single dyslexic person on the streets, in our prisons, those who've become drug addicts and alcoholics...because of how they were treated at school by teachers who didn't give a f*ck!

Why should they receive compensation? Because they were made to feel, and often told outright, that they were stupid, lazy, troublesome and rude, when all they ever wanted was to be who they are, but were left to struggle in a system that has no time for them, no understanding.

School Damage last a lifetime for many, who are never picked up again, never truly believe that they are actually intelligent 'ordinary' people who simply have extraordinary brains.


Things that help?

For the Discrimination to stop. For companies to go back to interviewing people, not blocking them out 'online' so that many don't even get past the first page!

Things that would help?

For those who, for so long have chosen to belittle, to finally have the guts to stand up and apologise to all those intelligent, innocent souls they have hurt.


That's just for starters...

Oh, and for those who control to realise that Freedom in Education is the most wonderful thing which allows ALL to learn as they are meant to, by Mother Nature herself, instead of being rounded up like cattle and shoved into Factory Farms to 'obey rules'


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: s&r
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 11:18 AM

Good try Villan.

Didn't last long...


Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 11:41 AM

May be a natural way for the brain to work, but that doesn't mean it's good.

You can only be dyslexic, apparently, in English and French, or other languages with poor phonetic spelling. It doesn't happen with Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, or anything spelled phonetically, nor with languages whose spellings that have nothing to do with pronunciation, like Chinese.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 12:29 PM

When a person with learning disabilities is encountered who has long lasting scars left from their experiences in a school system, and they express anger over their treatment in that system, trying to suppress what they are saying or judging them for saying it won't shut them up. I will only spur them on to fight harder. Showing some understanding and sympathy for such a person's bad experiences would be a much more effective way of keeping the discussion civil. Just a thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 12:34 PM

Correction-

*It will only spur them on (etc)...


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 12:40 PM

There are various tricks to help compensate, but it must be understood first that there are lots of aspects of learning disabilities that come under the expansive Dyslexia Umbrella.

I found the reiforced spelling rules that Eric mentions to be helpful. And moving around when you're warking on something difficult, read out loud, walk around with a book, write on the chalk board, etc. Moving means a couple of different parts of your brain are laying down the information.

Studies have shown time and again that dyslexia is generally found in very bright people. We learn to compensate for slow or difficult reading.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:41 PM

What can be done to help people with dyslexia?

Re examine and dispel some of the popular 'myths' about the condition; they do a diservice to anyone with the condition.


Research has demonstrated that dyslexia can in fact be found across the whole range of intelligence, although it may be more easily recognised in a child who otherwise appears to be highly talented.

Dyslexia is not 'the affliction of geniuses'

Statistically many talented people may also be dyslexic (or suffer from a combination of specific learning difficulties) unfortunately many 'great minds' also suffered from bi polar disorders or clinical depression - I have yet to hear anyone describe thses as 'gifts'

There is little to no proof that some of the historical figures usually quoted as dyslexics actually were, certainly it is unlikely any of them actually took any of the tests that might have determined this.

For example a 30-year-old paper published by the University of North Carolina claimed Einstein had certain traits, such as strephosymbolia, which indicate that he MIGHT have been dyslexic seems to have been the origin of some spurious claims which don't seem to be in accordance with any biography

Although he was slow to begin to talk by the time he was seven his mother wrote "Yesterday Albert received his grades, he was again number one"
In fact Einstein was already 8 and a top student in a Catholic elementary school when the term dyslexia was first used in a monograph by Rudolf Berlin.

What helps me?

That little message on Google that says
'did you mean......' :)
and a spell check set to UK English.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:33 PM

Speaking at the British Dyslexia Association's international conference in 2001, Dr Michael Rice of Darwin College
said that some previous research of dyslexia among prisoners had been flawed.

Researchers from the University of Cambridge say they have disproven suggestions that prisoners are more likely to have dyslexia than the general population.

Instead, Dr Rice, says that a higher incidence of reading difficulties reflects the deprivations of prisoners' backgrounds.

"My research suggests that dyslexia accounts for no more cases than might occur by chance, and that most prisoners' reading problems are associated with social disadvantage?" .

Among the problems with earlier research, he said, was the assumption that dyslexia is the "unique cause of low reading attainment" - and the understating of the impact of environmental influences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Cats
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM

If you are using an interective white board always make sure the background is a pale colour and not white,

Always prelearn subject specific words,

understand what type of learner you are and work withing those boundarieds as much as possible,

green or purple on white are the best colours to read,

sometimes coloured overlays, reading rulers and prescription coloured lenses help, but not for all dyslexics, but these must be diagnosed by a specialist ,

extra time is required for processing information,

overlearn things,

Never think you or they are thick or can't do it. They can but in a different way

explore different methods of recording information, writing it down may not be the best way for you

Warm your brain up first thing in the morning e.g. brain gym, just as you would if you were doing exercise, remember to start on one side of the body then cross the centre line gradually

Be positive, they are just different

If in UK make sure yor local school has Dyslexia Friendly School status and if not go and see the Head and the SENCo and push for it be become one.

Hope this helps


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM

Very positive Cats

it's that sort of info thats needed as well as new ideas that help.

Lizzie, I am getting very tired of starting a thread, to have you come on and screw it up and start upsetting other people everytime.

If you can't post some thing different and original then don't post.

please stop posting the same old comments.

You are spoiling every single thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:29 PM

I was going to suggest Brain Gym too. Cats, we're on the same wave length.
Doing lots of cross-over exercises, even just placing the left hand on the right knee - shoulder - eye etc. and then the opposite with the right hand. How many of the parents announce proudly "My little Johnny didn't crawl, he just stood up and walked!" without realising Johnny has missed out on some important cross patterning.
When kids are trying to learn tables or spelling or even just alphabets, do it with a physical activity such as balancing on a beam or throwing a ball and saying it out loud, all at the same time. The info goes into several different parts of the brain and is much easier to retrieve than if you're just sitting quietly and reading it to yourself.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:25 AM

Sorry, Villan

I'll keep my opinions to myself then, whilst you all put yours down.

Tell me though, why are my opinions any less valid than yours, or others? Why are others permitted to say very similar, if not the same things as me, but you never take them to task over it?

"...Researchers from the University of Cambridge say they have disproven suggestions that prisoners are more likely to have dyslexia than the general population.

Instead, Dr Rice, says that a higher incidence of reading difficulties reflects the deprivations of prisoners' backgrounds.

"My research suggests that dyslexia accounts for no more cases than might occur by chance, and that most prisoners' reading problems are associated with social disadvantage?...."

That's rubbish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:59 AM

Lizzie
Nothing wrong with you participating, but come up with something new and original.

All you keep on doing is talking about your children and Home Learning and about how crap the schooling system is. Most of that is copied information that has been written by sombody else.

Stop preaching and provide us with tools and ideas that will help parents who have dyslexic children do the best for their children.

Step outside you problems and look at how you can help other people who do not understand Dyslexia, without ramming your self centred doctrination on us all the time.

I realise that you have had a tough time, but then most of us have a tough time, but how do we help people see the wood from the trees.

This is the sort of idea I mean, but is not necessarily related to Dyslexia. This was a person with severe issues.

I have on numerous occasions, had to be involved with teaching people IT skills who clearly have a problem with using the mouse to point and click and that leads to frustration and anger at times.

I remember once when a man who had mental issues and great difficulty holding and using the normal mouse. Before I was involved with this person, people were just forcing him to use the computer without looking at his personal needs to help him achieve.

I watched him for 5 minutes struggling. I had a mouse like this http://www.infogrip.com/product_view.asp?RecordNumber=98 which I had used in the early days for my daughter at home. The next time I saw him, I had installed this mouse on the computer and got him, to try using it. It worked a real treat and instead of anger and frustration, he suddenly had a tool that helped him to use the computer. I then put put a program on the PC that allowed him to use an on screen keyboard, that predicted words and sentences as he clicked on each letter. He used the mouse with it, and suddenly from somebody who could hardly speak more than a sentence clearly, he was able to create word documents that had meaning.
His whole world changed becuase he was now able to communicate with the outside world and make sense. He went on to e-mailing his relatives and getting e-mails back from them.
All I ever got from him was smiles after that.
I gave him the mouse to keep and he was so overjoyed he burst out crying.
The cost of solving that was minimal, but it had a major impact on this person.

Have you got things like that , where other people can benefit from, without involving how good your family is etc etc. I am sure you have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:00 AM

I was humiliated in front of my entire post graduate management class (4 years part time while working 70 hour weeks, Masters degree) by the lecturer who laughed at me after my presentation, saying she awarded me the prize for using my hands the most, i.e.gesturing while making my final exam speech.

Gestures help me to seek the right word for the concept I can visualise, but find difficulty in expressing verbally. I didn't go to the graduation ceremony just after that, even though it is one of the achievements I value most in my life, because I was so upset and angry.

If I can "describe" the concept in the air I can usually find the path through my brain to find the right word.

Mrrzy said: "You can only be dyslexic, apparently, in English and French, or other languages with poor phonetic spelling. It doesn't happen with Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, or anything spelled phonetically, nor with languages whose spellings that have nothing to do with pronunciation, like Chinese."

I'd like to know the references to studies about this, because I don't think I agree, based on my own experience. I mix up syllables. So I always have to stop and work through the logic to find the right word, e.g. between superstitious & suspicious "SuPerStiSH" vers "SusPiSh". And I can never remember the name of Staminade. I have to work it through in my brain, and now I have a help word, SomethingAde - So-Me-th-INg-ADE. Sometimes I wonder whether stuttering is related, because I stutter when I am trying to pull the word out of that strange archive in my brain where the words reside.

I studied Latin at school. It's just as easy to mix up Latin words (similar to Italian) as it is to mix up English. Sounding out words works when I am reading, but doesn't help when I am talking and trying to find the right word.

And Lizzie has shared some personal emotions here, which I can relate to. We had a very nice teacher in 3rd Grade but she made me feel like a total loser in that class, especially when I asked what I thought were fair questions. (Give her some slack, though, this was back in 1963. Dyslexia wasn't something teachers were taught to look for.

And befoer soemone says I don't look liek a dylsexic, that's becasue I correct my typos befoer I submit.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:17 AM

Helen
That was disgraceful from that lecturer. So sorry you had that experience.

Are there things that you use or have used that help you to communicate succesfully, that others may benefit from?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:23 AM

More from me. I found that playing keyboard-based computer games, where I had to use left & right arrow keys, helped me a lot to remember left & right, i.e. more automatically than having to stop and think about it.

When I was in Primary School I wore a small ring on my left hand to remember which side of the road to ride my bicycle on. (We drive on the correct side here in Oz, not the right side.)

I find I have what I call brain-flips. It's like left and right, and top/bottom flip back and forth. So reading a word like "superstitious", the syllables can flip. I know it starts with "su" and ends in a "shus" sound, but then the middle syllables flip. I am aware of it now, but in childhood it was very confusing, while I was learning to read or learning new words. P's look like 9's, b's look like d's. Word pictures can help. The word "bed" looks like a bed - bedhead, mattress, bed-end. |--| My big numeric problem is a top to bottom flip. Look at the number 5 upside down and it looks like a 2. I'll see a 2, my brain registers 2, and I say 5, and have to correct myself.

Now I'm aware that the first word or number I think I see is possibly not right, so I double-check everything I type, or data I am entering, or words or numbers I am saying. It slows me down but I have extremely high accuracy. I consistently score around high 90's in tests out of 100 for accuracy.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:32 AM

>>More from me. I found that playing keyboard-based computer games, where I had to use left & right arrow keys, helped me a lot to remember left & right, i.e. more automatically than having to stop and think about it.<<

Yes I can understand that and I think its a very good way of learning left or right.

Just something simple like that can make such a world of difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:35 AM

Sorry, I forgot to say that when I get the brain-flips I get a feeling like a quick free-fall sensation in my gut, like I've fallen out of a high window. It's such a quick reaction that I wonder whether it isn't part of the brain-flips themselves. The gut reaction is simultaneous with the flips. It doesn't come after the flips, not even a split second after.

I panic when someone asks me what time it is. I have an analogue watch so the picture flips back and forth. Is it 10.55 am or is is 1.05 pm? Have I had lunch yet? No, so it must be 10.55 am. Or I know that my watch is on my left hand, so the left side of the dial, near my wrist, is the numbers from 7 to 12, the side of the dial near my hand is the right side, number 1 to 5. etc People look at me like I'm stupid because I can't tell them the time. A simple answer to a simple question. Sometimes I just show them my watch and let them decipher it.

Digital clocks are the pits. Those digital numbers! 2's look like 5's. What hope have I got of deciphering that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:46 AM

>>Sometimes I just show them my watch and let them decipher it.
<<

Great idea.

Maybe you should have a talking watch.

http://www.shopwiki.co.uk/talking+watch


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:22 AM

You can only be dyslexic, apparently, in English and French, or other languages with poor phonetic spelling. It doesn't happen with Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, or anything spelled phonetically, nor with languages whose spellings that have nothing to do with pronunciation, like Chinese.

Some time ago I heard a talk by an expert in Islamic calligraphy who had been brought up as a British ex-pat kid in Iran. Her first spoken language was English but her first written language was Persian. She said there was simply no such thing as dyslexia in places that use Arabic-based scripts - her guess as to why was that words have much more distinctive individual shapes than they do in English.

Practically, what that means for the UK is that if a kid is bilingual in Urdu and English and seems to be having problems reading and writing English, a switch to Urdu literacy learning might be in order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:45 AM

How much does the background colour for text play an important part in helping to read and for those who are dyslexic, what colour suits you best?

Does colour help in any way to stop the brain flips that Helen mentions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:16 AM

One of many articles that suggest links between the amount of testosterone in the womb (meaured by finger length) and various traits including homosexuality and dyslexia

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:25 AM

I panic when someone asks me what time it is. I have an analogue watch so the picture flips back and forth. Is it 10.55 am or is is 1.05 pm? Have I had lunch yet? No, so it must be 10.55 am. Or I know that my watch is on my left hand, so the left side of the dial, near my wrist, is the numbers from 7 to 12, the side of the dial near my hand is the right side, number 1 to 5. etc People look at me like I'm stupid because I can't tell them the time. A simple answer to a simple question. Sometimes I just show them my watch and let them decipher it.

Digital clocks are the pits. Those digital numbers! 2's look like 5's. What hope have I got of deciphering that?


Do Roman numerals work any better for you?

IX and XI are going to be liabilities for flipping, but you've got the context of their position on the dial to help - and the Romans seem to have invented IIII just because of this sort of visual processing problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM

Meares-Irlen or Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome ' refers to visual perceptual disorder(s) affecting primarily reading and writing based activities.
Its existence is not recognized by some major medical organizations including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Ophthalmology, and the American Optometric Association.
However, it has been studied in the former Applied Psychology Unit, Cambridge, UK. The Scottish Parliament has also funded a research and treatment centre at the Glasgow Caledonian University.

People who have Irlen Syndrome see the page differently because of distortions of the print or white background

Some people who are labelled "dyslexic/dyspraxic" may actually be sufferers from Irlen

For those with dyslexia however....
What all good web designers are aware of is that creative use of colour and contrast can dramatically enhance the accessibility of a website.

It can be as important for people with sight problems as it is to people who have dyslexia or whose first language is not the main language of the site.

Everyone benefits from text which is both easy on the eye and that is easy to follow.

For example, people with dyslexia benefit from good contrast I find black or dark blue on white the best) as this can help make the structure of words and sentances easier to understand.

This is very true for me as I have a food intolerance and sometimes have had to request shop staff to read some food labels printed in coloured inks on coloured backgrounds - embarassing :)

As for those road atlas that print road numbers in yellow on green - arghhhhhhhhh! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:36 AM

Very interesting Em

Ths is not meant to plug my websiteEm, but can you read this page with ease? If not why not (I am refferring primarily to the colour concept). It doesn't mean that I will change things, but would like to use colours that help people to read easily.

http://www.faldingworthlive.co.uk/

I have sensitivity to light and get headaches if I have to stare at a bright white screen, so I use soft colour backgrounds. I am aware that some links on the page may be the wrong or worst colours to use. e.g. red. Do they bother you Em?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:41 AM

Thanks for the link Les I'll take a longer look and PM you

Just another thing - I've enjoyed many different non vocational night classes as an adult and have found that organizing information using colour coding and diagramatic charts - pie charts etc has been a big help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Cats
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:44 AM

Some forms of Dyslexia, known as Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome or Meares Irlen Syndrome, show themselves by the characters moving around on the page or falling off the side or spinning around or looking as if they have been built up from the page and even all round letters looking identical [try reading and spelling when a,c, e,m, n, o, r, s u,v,w,x,and z all look the same!]. In these cases using coloured overlays, reading rulers, prescription tinted spectacles or having a coloured background will help but the colour has to be disagnosed. I explain it to my students and their parents by saying the light travels along the nerves until it comes to a synapse and if it meets exactly all is fine but if, for any reason it doesn't, there is a distortion or visual acuity and you need to find which colour has not made a perfect jump. It's a bit like not having a radio tuned in properly. Any pale coloured background will actually help with eye discomfort for everyone, regardless if they are Dyslexic which is why, when using a white board, the background should be changed.

As for the comments running down the state system in the UK, I am an Individual Needs Coordinator in one of the largest secondary schools in Cornwall and I am proud to be in the state system. I am proud of what we do for our young people and of the teachers who spend countless hours of their own time making sure our students get the best provision there is. If you want to home educate that is your choice and I respect that but down run down a system that works well for the majority of children if you have chosen to opt out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Cats
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:50 AM

Sorry, Typo. Last sentence should read 'don't run down a system...'


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:04 AM

Ah finally this seems to be settling down into a very useful and informative thread. Hopefully it will remain that way.

Very interesting Cats. Is there a particular font style that IYHO seems to particularly suit dyslexics?

Thanks Em


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM

There was somebody who made the national news a couple of years ago for designing a dyslexia-friendly font - it looked pretty nice for other folks as well. Last time I looked there was no way to get it except at considerable expense, which means its impact is likely to be very limited.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:34 AM

'Advice on dyslexia friendly fonts and general layout can be found on the British Dyslexia Association website and on Dyslexic.com. TechDis who appear to do research in this area have a comprehensive guide to style and fonts for website [PDF]. The results of a study of reading speeds and subjective preferences show that Verdana was the best font but this wasn't specifically limited to dyslexia.'

Info from this site
where the links work!

The 'read regular' may be the font you mean Jack - I always use Verdana myself - and I thought it was because I just liked it :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:59 AM

Has anyone had any success in getting their local school to become a "dyslexia friendly school"? At my son's school the SENCO & head appear resistant to innovation around special needs (despite getting panned by OFSTED for their inadequacies), cry "poverty" when I try to get adequate and appropriate support (apparently my son's needs aren't "severe" enough for them!) and seem intent on lumping kids with diverse needs together for 20 minutes three times a week and keeping their fingers crossed the rest of the time?

I'm not looking for solutions I can do outside of school (already working on that), diatribes about the education system or glib demands that I home school him. I'm hoping for ideas and practical examples of what I can do to improve things for my son and others in his position at his school (thanks to The Villan for sharing his experiences with me by pm already - I'm looking to broaden out the discussion a little).

Cheers,

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:09 AM

Thats really interesting.

Most Professional Printers (as in a business not the things that print your documents out) for body text (paragraphs where font sizes are 12 point or less) tend to use Serif fonts because they help the eye to read each character more easily. Serifs for those who don't know are the little feet used at the ends of characters such as X.

However Verdana is a Sans Serif font (without feet at the end of the characters) which is used extensively for headings (larger font styles) in documents. Serif fonts do not lend themselves to large font styles 14 point or more.

Serif fonts are considered more readable for lengthy text printed in books, newspapers and magazines, whereas sans-serif fonts are considered more legible on computer screens. Most web pages employ sans-serif type for this reason.

I find long documents that use Sans Serif fonts for paragraphs difficult and tiring to read. I don't mean 1 or 2 paragraphs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:23 AM

>>I'm hoping for ideas and practical examples of what I can do to improve things for my son and others in his position at his school<<

Thats exactly what this thread is for Nigel. So if people who are posting can keep that in mind, it would be great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:30 AM

Cheers, Les ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:31 AM

Reading with phonetic writing systems is based in part on word shape recognition and part on context - as someone who visualizes words (you may see me exercising 'invisible' finger writing sometimes when struggling to recall one) I find this system suits me best
But - and this is a follow on from fonts - the amount of letter-spacing in text can also affect legibility

Just a thought - this is an interesting thread

Sorry I can't help you Spleen Cringe with any answers with regard to problems with a school, it's been a long time since I was in the system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:18 PM

I don't have dyslexia, but I do have severe astigmatism and early stage cataracts, and the color combination in the Faldingworth Live website makes it extremely difficult for me to read, even when I wear my glasses that are supposed to correct my astigmatism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:26 PM

Ah OK Carol
I have astigmatism and it seems OK to me. Is it the background colour or the text colour?
Les


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:32 PM

The other question Carol is

What resolution do you have for your monitor and how old is your computer and monitor, as this may provide a clue. As I say, it looks OK on my monitor.

Also is it the size of text possibly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:38 PM

It's probably the combination of my astigmatism and my early stage cataracts and not the astigmatism alone. The blue is too dark. I'm using a two or three year old iMac with a 21 inch screen. I don't know what the resolution is, but it's very good. I have no trouble reading this thread in the Mudcat, even when the text size is the same as in the Faldingworth Live site, because there is very good contrast between the text and the background. But the background in the Faldingworth Live website is too dark and there's not enough contrast. It almost gives me a headache when I try to read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:48 PM

Thats starnge as it is a light blue


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM

The reason I use light blue background is to take the brightness off the screen and give a softpastel effect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:12 PM

I have just changed my frontpage of my website as an experiment. Can you try it again and see if that is any better please. If not why not?

http://www.faldingworthlive.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:18 PM

On my monitor, the color is the same as the blue color that surrounds letters when they are highlighted, and the text is black. I would describe it as being at the dark end of light blue, or the light end of medium blue.

I just now checked it again, and I see it's a darker blue with white letters. That's a little bit easier to read, but not great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:22 PM

I'm trying to figure out why the darker background with the white letters is not as good as a bright background with dark letters, and I don't know if I can explain it. I always have problems with dark backgrounds. They tend to make me headachy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:38 PM

"I have just changed my frontpage of my website as an experiment. Can you try it again and see if that is any better please. If not why not?"

It's dazzling and it makes me want to turn the screen off straight away as it hurts my eyes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:42 PM

It makes my head spin, especially the yellow.

My myspace page is black backgrounded....and the yellow's OK on that, so are all the other colours...(I love colours)....but not a blue background...

It makes my head 'swim'....


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:47 PM

OK Carol & Lizzie and Em this is very interesting. I will do a change that is the opposite to that and see what you see then.

Try again and see how you feel about that.

I appreciate your feedback.

Les


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:55 PM

A tiny bit better, but still not too good.

My head is registering the colours far more than the words...and when I click off the page, all I can see in my head are the colours....can't remember what was written on the page...


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:21 PM

It's the royal blue, Villan.

It's the ONLY colour on my page which makes me feel weird...and it's only on there because it's the one colour I cannot change to the one I want, as it's part of the page format, put on there by whoever invented that layout.

I've got other 'blues' on there, but they're OK, although it took me a while to realise that royal blue was the problem...All the other colours work for me, but ONLY because they're on a black background.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:22 PM

The white background with black letters works for me. A very, very light gray with dark gray letters would work also, as would a very, very light blue or green or pink (or any other extremely light color) with black or very dark colored letters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:28 PM

The kinds of color combinations in these pages work ok for me (there is one with dark background and light letters, but that page is mostly about the picture and not the words)...

http://www.geocities.com/squeezemusette/MoreMole.html

http://www.geocities.com/squeezemusette/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/squeezemusette/Links.html

Ignore the bright red of the clicked links. I don't know how that happened. That's not the way I set it up, and I'm going to have to change it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:29 PM

Its very interesting Dark Blue background is a no no for Em and Lizzie.

Carol I had my background very light blue with black teext originally, but you had problems with that. Hoever white background and black text seems to work for you.

I am going to try other options and when all 3 agree, we may well have a product we can sell :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:32 PM

That wasn't very light blue for me. It was a little on the dark side. Like a light medium or dark light. A lighter blue might work ok. I'll try to find one that works for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:35 PM

Try this one and I'll see how it works for me...

CCFFFF


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:37 PM

I have made a change. Please try again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:39 PM

That sort of peachy yellow is too color saturated for me. I think that's the problem with some of the other colors. Color saturation is too busy for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM

Still too bright, Villan...

Carol's are good, all of them, no problems at all, soft and gentle, easy to read...

Btw, is that you, Carol, in the photo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM

Oh...er...Peachy yellow?

Am I looking at the same page?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:44 PM

Getting rid of all fluorescent lights would also help. And school, last time I was there, was filled with 'em.

Horrible, horrible light, way too bright, can't concentrate in it, just want to get away from it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:45 PM

Changed it agin any luck


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:47 PM

If that is Carol, then what you doing tonight darling :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:50 PM

Nope, it's still too bright...and BLUE!


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:54 PM

LOL I am getting obsessive about this now :-)

Try now


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:05 PM

Yes, that's me, and I'm spending the evening with my husband. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:08 PM

The peachy yellow color showed up on my Toshiba, but when I checked it on the Mac, it was a sort of weird safety yellow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:09 PM

The way it is right now (sort of whitish background and blue letters) is fine on both of my machines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:10 PM

That's better, although the blue will always be a problem, unless it fades even more...but the yellow's not going "KAPOW!" anymore..so I don't have to screw my eyes up to protect them from the glare..


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:23 PM

Is that any better?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Cats
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:34 PM

Best font is Comic Sans size 12 or above and not bolded. Everyone will need a different colour background as it is prescriptive and singular. Best colours generally tend to be pale blue, pale lilac, wheat yellow, pale green or pale pink. And in answer to an earlier post, my school has Dyslexia Friendly School Status, we were the first school in Cornwall to have Dyslexia written into a Statement of Special Educational Needs [16 years ago] and the first school in Cornwall to have students wearing presciption tinted lenses. And, at one point I used to carry my overlays testing kit with me to festivals as so many folkies had asked about getting their children tested and schools did not have the expertise to do it and I did. Any help I can give re DFS school status please pm me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:36 PM

It's working for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:39 PM

Cats
I know schools like comic sans, which might make a lot of sense. I will try that. Bold is not an option I use. I increase the font size to 14 point or above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:39 PM

On edown 2 to go :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:59 PM

It takes a bit more effort for me to focus my eyes on the lighter blue text than it would be for a somewhat darker blue, but it's readable for me and doesn't give me a headache.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:03 PM

I am looking at technical support to get a compromise and understand further the technical issues involved with different PC's and monitors and of course you dyslexics :-) You are a pain in the eyes :-)
Only kidding :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:33 PM

The 'read regular' may be the font you mean Jack - I always use Verdana myself - and I thought it was because I just liked it :)

Yes, Read Regular was it. When I looked, it was hard to see how to get it any price.

I have not-too-great vision, probably typical of somebody aged 60 who's shortsighted and has done a heck of a lot of reading. So, I did some experiments with the same text printed in different fonts and found that what worked best for me was Palatino for ordinary text (research papers, in my case) and Comic Sans for song lyrics - the latter suggested by a local folkie, I'd never have thought of it. Is Comic Sans generally acceptable for dyslexics?

How does Gill Sans do? Is it too symmetrical?

I don't have dyslexia but I have had a few episodes of severe depression, which have always been heralded by a long period of wobbly vision, like seeing through a close-up heat haze, with a sensation like tremors in my eyeballs. An immediate effect of the antidepressants I was on (trazodone, venlafaxine) was that my vision suddenly went steady, things didn't swim around and shimmer any more. The effect was so striking it made me wonder if low-dose antidepressants might fix some dyslexia syndromes in the absence of depression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:27 PM

The yellow is far better....but that blue, it's just...too....too...blue!

My eyes keep wandering from the text to the colour, then backing away from it..

"A Pain in the Eyes"....LOL   I like that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM

The darker blue of the clickable links works better for me with the yellow (which is fine) than the black (dark gray?). How does the darker blue work for the ones with dyslexia?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:05 PM

Apropos the Faldingworth site: I have my browser set (as a default) to ignore colours, fonts and backgrounds defined by pages - everything comes up in the text and background colours and in the fonts I choose. Can't most browsers do that?

BTW, the Faldingworth home page is missing a <!DOCTYPE> declaration - the effect of that is that a browser doesn't know which standard of HTML is intended. Mine is set to expect HTML 4.0 Strict by default, so all those <font ...> tags show up as errors and wouldn't be interpreted even if I did allow you to set the fonts I see (FrontPage has got it wrong, you may need to fix this by hand). Loads very fast with no other errors, though.

I once worked with a guy who had read up some user interface research that showed people made less mistakes when their screen background was snot-green. So that was what he used, all day. It made me feel queasy just looking at it across the room.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM

I have Irlen lenses for Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome. I have had them for about 10 years. the moment I found out about it and tried someone else's glasses I felt a huge sense of relief and didn't want to hand the glasses back. I immediately made an appointment with the Special Education Centre at the local Uni, was tested, found to have the SSS and was tested for the right colour for me. My colour is sort of a beige/maroon mix (but I get a tinge of purple in mine because I love purple). I have also changed the background colour on my computers at home and at work to make it more like the colour in my glasses. Without the glasses I get a shadowy haze around the words, and they jiggle about on the page. I still get the haze and jiggle with the glasses but it is very much reduced. My background colour on my computer, i.e. the "page" colour I have set for Word etc, is RGB: 239, 228, 237. As I said, it's a muted beige/maroon/mauve.

The first lens colour that the assessor told me to try was yellow. I baulked and told him I don't like yellow. He made me try it anyway, but then he said that one of the common things among SSS people is that we don't like yellow, because of the glare.

Em, high contrast between paper and print makes the print hazy and makes it jiggle for me.

As for font, I love Comic Sans, but Arial is clear. Times New Roman is a little bit more of a problem but better than some fonts.If you look at the shape of the letters in Times NR, the letters like 'a', 'e', 'o', and 's', etc are roughly circular shape, and the letters are compact, so harder to see the difference in shape. There is a lot of white space within the letters of Comic Sans, Arial and Verdana. Comic Sans also has an 'a' and a 't' like the font used when we first learned to read.

I get a muted white background on the Faldingworth site. No colour at all. I tried it in Firefox and IE. Maybe you changed it, and I'm still trawling through the thread catching up from last night.

I have trouble reading this page because the safety yellow radiates glare

Fluorescent lights are hell. I was reluctant to admit to my dyslexia and SSS when I started in my job a few years ago, but it has worked out well that I did. I was moved to a desk which has a window with neutral coloured venetian blinds and I can adjust the blinds according to the time of day so that there is never too much glare. The natural light counteracts the fluoro lights, and every second fluoro tube is turned off in that section because a few people had problems with glare from 3 sides of windows, so it is ideal for me. If they ever tell me to move from that desk I'll be kicking and screaming. Prior to that I was sitting in a corner of a big room, as far from the windows you could get, with glaring fluoro lights on all sides.

Jack Campin,

I started getting visual migraines a couple of months ago (like I need another visual problem, no way!). Do a Google Image search on visual migraines for different people's artistic impressions of how visual migraines manifest.vHeat haze effects is one of them. I read up on visual migraines on the internet and found that electrolytes, like Staminade (see my post above about that word) help to sort the visual migraines out. Worth a try. I use Staminade powder. It's cheaper than buying the made-up drinks and it has no sugar, although it does have an artificial sweetener. I get it from the supermarket.

I've been reading the thread and writing as I go, so this post might be a bit disjointed.

Thanks, heaps, for a great thread.
Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:02 AM

With you on the yellow there, Helen....dazzling and dominating, horrible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:44 AM

OK done a bit more twiddling.

Is the background colour better or not?
Is the Font colour OK?

Jack, thanks for your comments and for mentioning the . Is that any better?

Les


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 05:49 AM

OOps got that wrong

Jack, thanks for your comments and for mentioning the doctype issue. I have done the doctype. Is that any better?


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 09:29 AM

I have done the doctype. Is that any better?

The problem now is that <font ... > tags aren't part of HTML 4.01 Strict, which is what you've said your page is. So it hasn't made any practical difference yet. You need to figure out what kind of HTML you're actually using and make sure the DOCTYPE reflects that.

This is only going to affect a fairly small number of users - those with idiosyncratic display settings in their browsers and a browser that cares about this stuff. But getting it right shouldn't disadvantage anybody else. Unfortunately I don't have any FrontPage documentation so I don't know what it's trying to do.

I started getting visual migraines a couple of months ago (like I need another visual problem, no way!). Do a Google Image search on visual migraines for different people's artistic impressions of how visual migraines manifest. Heat haze effects is one of them.

I started getting visual migraines a couple of years ago. The effects for me are nothing like the depressive shimmer - my migraines produce the classic sparkly-edged central scotoma. And they're over in a few hours, whereas the depressive shimmer is continuous, worsening over a period of months or years. I'm sure somebody out there is getting visual migraines often enough to disrupt reading, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Things that help people with Dyslexia
From: Tangledwood
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 06:33 PM

Helen, thank you for the clue about visual migraines. I experienced a couple at work but never knew what they were. They didn't seem severe or frequent enough to warrant medical attention. At the time I associated it with the office lighting which is borne out by internet information. Another problem that retirement removed. :)


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