BS: Canada falls off its high horse

Subject: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM

Well, of course those irresponsible Americans are out there gathering up and torturing people in their insane wars, but not us. No, when we hear about even the possibility of this kind of thing, we do everything we can, because we are pure of heart, peaceful, and have everyone's best interests at heart.

So a senior Canadian intelligence diplomat reveals that we essentially picked up hundreds of Afghans at random, handed them over to be tortured, and were warned about it at the most senior levels many, many times, and did nothing. For some strange, mysterious reason, our government immediately accuses this diplomat (who will be looking for work shortly, one can be assured of that) of being unreliable. Meanwhile, elsewhere across the country, the general in charge is selling his book, and the Prime Minister is selling nuclear reactors to the Indians, who betrayed Canada in the first place and broke the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which we are now ignoring, and negotiating with the Chinese who he was once foolish enough to complain to about the fact that they are murdering Tibetans.

Ah Canada.   

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:02 AM

The old gal ain't what she used to be. It's getting worse. My mum turns 83 on Monday and the goings on bring anger and almost tears to her eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:10 AM

A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make much progress.
Honour and humility in conflict is as rare as rocking horse shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:39 AM

I like Canada and Canadians, and in some ways they out-shine us Americans. But not in all ways, and they are after all, imperfect humans.
In his book, Goodbye To All That Robert Graves reminisced about his experiences in WW I, and he found Canadians to be pretty cruel, although I don't remember his specific words. (I just googled it and it has to do with tales of atrocities against prisoners, pretty raw stuff for its time).

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

This is the country that foisted Tim Horton's on an unsuspecting world!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM

Someone send for Bruce....he'll sort it out.

Bruce, could you write a song called 'The Corruption of Canada' for me, please?   And then, would you stand for Prime Minister at the next election and sort your country out. When you've finished setting yours to rights, could you do ours next?

We are in dire need of The Good Men and True around this planet...and I know that there are more good people than bad. It's just that, at the moment, the bad lot are in power because the good ones have turned away..

Turn back.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 12:11 PM

We haven't had a decent and honest PM since Trudeau and he was crapped on for telling the truth, labelled as arrogance.

Well, we had Chretien (yeah I know, he REALLY liked golf), whose only real goal seemed to be not doing anything bad OR good unless it got a vote, and Martin... but he never stood a chance (just like Manley)... another rich, arrogant...

Tommy, Pierre and the rest of your ilk... rise from the grave and lead us upon the path... sigh... I fear never again will we see such leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM

Canada should never have gotten involved in that unjustified war in the first place. Am I surprised at Canadian Forces complicity in torturing Afghans? No. Not surprised at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: bankley
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

so what,pray tell, was our horse high on ? fermented oats, BC bud, or maybe that black Mazar El Sharif Afghani hash, which some of our troops are bringing home.. so Harper/McKay accuse the accuser but it started well before they had the 'reins'... remember the Airborne in Somalia, or Mahar Arar's 'rendition' to Syria through RCMP complicity... that cost us millions.. this 'enhanced interrogation' is the effect of getting involved in Bush's war... we'd be in Iraq as well, if it weren't for the hugh demonstrations prior to the Coalition's Invasion of that country... did they find those nasty weapons yet ? Where is Bin Laden anyway ? and Karzai, now there's the model of democracy that we're paying to support in blood and spending.. high altitude quagmire anyone ? No, this is a dirty shooting war that we're bound to continue paying for as long as we're at the front... the average Joe might still believe in our ideals, but the reality on the ground and in the dark back rooms is another story... the sooner we wake up to that fact,and hold our leaders accountable, the better off we will be...
Meanwhile we've let the Torturer in Chief, GW Bush into this country 3 times on his lucrative speaking circuit... my friend Splitting the Sky will go to trail next March in Calgary for attempting to arrest Bush for war crimes... it'll be hard for the media to ignore since former US attorney general, Ramsey Clark and Cynthia McInney, among others, intend to testify for the defense... that's one of the things I like best about this country... when the little guy speaks truth to power...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:50 PM

It's actually Shatner and a high Starship

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:21 PM

You're a bit late with the news, Peter:

"Canada's ugly antecedent is known as the Somalia affair: the 1993 torture and murder of a Somali teenager by Canadian airborne soldiers, and the culture of racism and brutality in the ranks that it exposed.

The Somalia revelations during 1994 and 1995 anguished the nation and traumatized the Canadian military. The perpetrators were court-martialed. But a military inquiry continues into the events surrounding the murder as well as the chain of command -- and what looks like a cover-up -- all the way to the Department of National Defense in Ottawa."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

If Canada goes down that road there is no hope for any of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:13 AM

We've already gone. The only good that came from it was the disbandment of that airborne regiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: ollaimh
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:33 PM

canada had a long tradition of peace keeping.now we have only about 60 soldiers doing it.

the cretien government got into afghanistan because of our nato commitments,and they can'tbe ignored if we ever expect nato to help us in the future, but harpers conservatives decided to take a major combat role and ignor the torture of prisoners. these abuses were ignored several years ago at the highest level of the military and the government.the cons have just gone on a diatribe attack on the credibility of the diplomat who did reported this. this same diplomat e mailed eighty government people alerting them to the problem. and now he is the head of security for our washington embassy, so it is foolishness to asttack his credibility but it shows the ignorance ans stupidty of our present policy makers. i just themk god cretien stood up to american presure and didn't get involved in iraq. remember that harper made a major speach that we were betraying our allies by not going to iraq.

i think cretien and martin ran a good government. we had the best mannaged economy in the industrial world and reduced our debt left by the old conservative government.(they doubled our national debt in nine years). people forget what a good government they were because debt reduction isn't sexy. they aklso stopped out banks from merging and getting into subprime mortgages and other flaky derivitives that have shaken the world economy. no canadian banks or other financial instutions were in trouble because of it.

however the main issue is the conservatives have abonded our traditional peace keeping to join with their ideological partners in the neo con movement in america. they have also abonded climate accords and done nothing to push the tar sands industry to reduce green house gasses and to clean up their polution. that will be a nation breaker when albertan politicians find they can'tjust ignore the worlds green house gas emmissions.they will teeter on separation to avoid any federal control, orinternational control.

with the torture in afghanistan we should get out of attesting peoplenow,and get out of combat as soon as possible then out of the war in 2011. if canadians knew the prisoners would be tortured they should be tried for war crimes. and we should imediately demand reassdonable policies in afghanistan.the americans are so ignorant they have pushed the people away from the new government at every turn.

the place to start is to start buying the afghan poppy crop. for thirty million dollars or less we could buy the farmers support by giving them twice what the taliban pay them.then use the popies to make pain killers and distribute them free to poorer people and poorer countries for medical use.this wouldcost less than on day of fighting and win over the main taliban support.

americans are running the war like vietnam and that's how its going to end unless they start using their heads. the poppy proposalwas put forward by hundreds of leading university professors and intellectuals including severasl noble rize winners--but it is likely too logical for the ideologists who set american policy

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

It was obvious to me at the time (2003) that we entered Afghanistan with 2000 troops to free-up 2000 US troops to go to Iraq. (Recall that we refused to get involved in Iraq.) I don't doubt that the Chretien government--which ignored the advice of the military--caved in to Washington. Our military said we should keep out of Afghanistan. Well, we didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

All you commentators, please read this: Article by warden of Sarpoza Prison

It's very easy to criticize when you have no information except what the media feed you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

Also, please keep in mind that it's a big war, and ours is a small task force with a lot to do. And Rome wasn't built in a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:56 PM

It took Rome over a thousand years to fall. It will take this present imperial order of Anglo-America a whole lot less than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:36 PM

Last time I checked, the Ottawa Citizen was media (crappy media, but media).

This article doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everything was just fine.....!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM

Few among the media are taking into account that they are probably being played -- as Colvin likely was -- in a Al Qa'ida and Taliban information operation. This is almost certainly classic "black" propaganda: fragments of it are true, and they are played up to discredit the target through fallacy.

Peter T. appears to have fallen into the trap that catches so many Canadians. Too many Canadians believe that what is reported on Faux Noise is representative of the attitudes and beliefs of U.S. citizens, and the actions of their government. Residents of the U.S. should be careful when it comes to giving credence to what they hear from the MotherCorp or read in the Mop & Pail.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

And what about Lee Harvey Oswald and 9/11? When is that going to be blown open? It's really all about Mary Magdalene and the Cathars, as always.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:16 AM

It's not that bad, my Canuck friends, given the distance you still have to fall to get anywhere near the excesses of the Bush/Cheney gang, and come to that my own very disappointing crowd.

Just put the brakes on now, and you'll still smell a lot sweeter than them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:18 PM

some interesting figures regarding the opium trade

11% of the rural population in Afghanistan are growers..300,000 families.. so $30 Million would give them $100 each per family.. Last year they made around $1800 each... or approx.$560 million total.. big difference
$2.4 Billion was made by trafficers... another $62 billion is generated globally after it leaves the country...
Many of our allies from the Northern Alliance are some of the biggest trafficers...Druglords who were driven north by the Taliban in the late 90's.... seems like almost everybody's in on it, and of course the farmer who gets 10 times more for opium than wheat is at the bottom of the pay-scale....

I still think if you want to wipe out drugs, you have to improve reality

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:41 PM

Hmmm... I wonder what the figures are for the drug companies that supply OxyContin and morphine to Canuck Medicare?

Traffickers? Scalpers? Wipe out drugs? I think there is more than meets they eye in the drug trade. Like a lot of $. Just like petroleum.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM

"It's very easy to criticize when you have no information except what the media feed you."

It's also foolish to trust everything said by Ottawa. If we don't get information from the media, where then are we supposed to get it from?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

Media? Try Télévision de Radio-Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:11 PM

Hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 10:44 PM

Naw, Canada is still on it's high horse ignoring human rights violations and slave labor when it is profitable and excoriating other countries that do care about human rights :

Sherritt of Canada pays the Cuban government $US 9,500 dollars per year per worker hired. In turn, the government pays workers the equivalent of $US 120 dollars per year in Cuban pesos! In other words, the government appropriates 98.7% of each workers wages. Meanwhile, the Castro government which is a severely repressive one, is able to stay afloat as a result of their ability to live off the spoils of their workers. Another aspect that must be noted in this relationship is that in Cuba their is one union that is controlled by the Cuban state. It is not one that is democratically elected rather, it is an arm of the repressive Cuban state. In Cuba today the notion of stikes do not exist, as they are officially illegal. Those who wish to partake in a strike are then entitled to a state founded housing allowence in one of Cuba's prisons. Thus Sherritt benefits, and henceforth takes advantage of a labour force that is compliant and technically free from insurrection.

The US embargo against Cuba does not permit any product that is totally or partially of Cuban origin from entering the United States. This means that the nickel and cobalt that is mines in Cuba and then further processed in Canada is bared from the United States. Canada which is the United States largest trading partner and NAFTA member has threated action. This has included Canada joining with the European Union in the WTO in an effort to fight the US law there.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:19 AM

Sawzaw, I suppose that you can document that load of CRAP!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:42 PM

the idea that canada's senior diplomat was a taliban dupe is mindless right wing propaganda. the canadian military and the conservative government thought that creating a series of levels of deniability was all that was neded. this approach insulated the top guys fro trouble but also from any good or creative ideas so they contintue the american anti insurgency program that is doomed to fail

even the present top of the mltary had to admit he lied to a parliamentary comitte yeaterday. he first said there were no torture reports then he came back and said opps we had one that conformed canadian military witnessing abuse of a prisoner then the report had a tag sayig"like we[ve seen often before".

a cover up solves nothing. helping torturing afghgans loses the support nesessay to win the war.

te real irony is if bysh had spent a third of what he spent in war on alternative energy america and canada would be off medeast oil and could forget about them.. but americanas made an idealogical decision tht oil was the future rather than actually spend money for their own people. they shoveled money to the oil company complex and the military contractors and ignored the real strctural problems with the american economy.

and here we are watching the north american ecnomy fall apart while indulging in the worst abuses throughout the world

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:56 PM

Well I can assure you it wasn't the American people, GW his cronies and the irresponsible elected official who lied their way into a war that us taxpayers can not afford. But you see, they disrespected his dad hence he was going to Iraq no matter what anyone said ... All insane , loss of so many lives and so many resources that could be used for good ..

We never learn, nor does the rest of the world ... And waterboarding isn't torture .. ya right, what a great example that was to the world . Thank God we have a new president with some sense in that regard

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:20 PM

gnu, I heard the other day that there's a lot more overdoses in Canada from Oxycontin than heroin.. the Feds will pressure the MDs to tighten up those prescription pads....

I wonder what's going to happen with the smack injection center in Van.. during the Olympics ? don't want the tourists wandering down around East Hastings too much. They might get a different impression of the 'snow games'.... "and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, all the way from Afghanistan....." welcome to BC, bud....

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:40 PM

What documentation do you require? Please provide your documentation that it is crap.

Try Googling Sherritt Cuba nickel wages

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:37 PM

First of all the Helms-Burton act is a piece of shit that should be a disgrace to the legislative bodies that passed it! Cuba and Canada have been friends for many years. If Cuba wants to develop its natural resources that is Cuba's business. Cuba has suffered for far too many years from economic bullying by the USA. Cuba's human rights record may not be a shining gem but it is a hell of a lot better than most other dictatorships in the Americas that the USA has propped up over the past 50 years! Canadian companies are as greedy and profit oriented as those south of the border but Cuba badly needs money to buy supplies that the US embargo has cut off. To an extent they do that through Canada and Helms-Burton is an attempt to punish Canada as well as Cuba. It is the hope of many in the international community that Obama will have the balls to mend fences with Cuba. I believe that his heart is there to do so if he is not obstructed by people believing so much of this propaganda like what Sawzaw has posted!
American media fueled by demands from exiles in southern Florida have been publishing lies and half truths for far to many years. If a lie is repeated often enough some idiots start believing it. That's why FOX News

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:39 PM

..............Exists!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:55 AM

What documentation do you require? Please provide your documentation that it is crap.

Cuba can trade with any other country they want too. So why do they whine about the US not wanting to trade?

"a hell of a lot better than most other dictatorships in the Americas that the USA has propped up over the past 50 years!"

Got any names to support your propaganda?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:18 PM

Sawzaw, your post shows that you have no knowledge of the rules of intellectual discourse. It goes like this. First, you make an assertion with no attribution. That is called a "gratuitous assertion". Then someone asks you to give some cites, or documentation, to back up your very broad, boldly asserted, "facts". What is your response? "Please provide your documentation that it is crap." No, son, when you make the assertion, it is up to you to document the source. Otherwise your "gratuitous assertion" can be just as gratuitously denied. See how it works?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:34 PM

"Got any names to support your propaganda?"

First of all thanks Mick!
I do not want to seem to bash the USA, which in many ways is a country and people I dearly love and respect! Canada's legacy in international affairs at times in the past does not instill any great personal pride and today we are governed by a pack of arseholes! That being said I could never understand the American perspective regarding Cuba. I suppose that the name that comes first to mind is "Batista". For all of Castro's faults any thinking person could only see him as a vast improvement over this puppet of the Mafia. However the official policy of the USA denies this for rather strange political purpose and some fools still regard Batista as a hero! I will refrain from using many other examples but the "junta in Chile" can not be overlooked! That is only a starting point that has to be counterbalanced with all of the good that the USA does in this world. However, its record in Cuba is not stellar!
It is my deepest hope that in Obama you have elected a great leader who will change the world! However the idiots in congress and the senate who passed the Helms-Burton Act will no doubt stand in the way of progress!
Finally Sawzaw, I am sorry if I prejudge you as a person based on any data that you believe to be true and posted as such. It just dosn't pass the litmus test!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:49 PM

Round here we still remember the Canadian Bomber Crews who died for us (as well as leaving chewing gum stuck under their seats in the canteen, which was as hard as concrete when I tried to get it off 20 years later!) Up the Canucks!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:04 PM

""Naw, Canada is still on it's high horse ignoring human rights violations and slave labor when it is profitable and excoriating other countries that do care about human rights :""

And you really believe that the US government which passed that legislation did so because it cared about the human rights of Cuban peasants, or for that matter anyone else?

You've gotta get off that weed bro, it's curdling your brain.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 12:52 AM

OK Pop.

I asked what kind of documentation was required and got no answer.

And please tell me Pop, why the Cuban government whines about the big, mean old USA when they can trade with any other country in the world they want too. Is trade with the US some sort of magic pill that will make things OK in Cuba? What does America have that they can't buy elsewhere cheaper? They don't have the money they need to buy the things they are too inept to make and they use the US as a straw man to blame their economic mismanagement on. Is there an embargo on food and medicine?

Keep in mind that it was the great humanitarian, JFK who started the Cuban embargo. Was he an asshole?

Bill Clinton expanded the trade embargo even further by ending the practice of foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies trading with Cuba. In 2000. Another asshole?

What are the rules of intellectual discourse in Cuba?
Here is a sample "Citizens can be and have been jailed for terms of 3 years or more for simply criticizing the communist system or Fidel Castro. Under the law of "dangerousness," citizens can be jailed for up to 4 years if a police official thinks that they show "anti-social behavior."

Citizens do not have the right to change their government.

In March 2003, the government carried out one of the most brutal crackdowns on peaceful opposition in the history of Cuba when it arrested 75 human rights activists, independent journalists and opposition figures on various charges, ranging from aiding a foreign power to violating national security laws. Authorities subjected the detainees to summary trials and sentenced them to prison terms ranging from 6 to 28 years. Amnesty International identified all 75 as "prisoners of conscience." As of August 2008, 55 of the original 75 prisoners remained incarcerated.

Would you like to live under this law Pop?

Pop, do you think it is OK for the Cuban government to keep almost all of the workers pay or do you believe it is propaganda?

"The venture pays the government about $790 a month for each worker --
competitive with wages elsewhere in the Caribbean. The state, in turn,
pays the workers anywhere from 125 to 540 Cuban pesos a month -- about $5 to $25 -- and keeps the rest. "

"Both investors and the Government benefit from the labour deal. The State acts as a broker supplying workers under contract to companies in the zones. Cuban workers are by Latin American standards highly trained and educated. They are also tightly controlled. Strikes are illegal. According to Silvia Castañer, workers in the free-trade zones will receive an average wage of 150-200 pesos ($6.50-$8.70) a month for a 51/2 day week. Investors negotiate wages with the Government from $1.10 to $6.00 an hour depending on the job. All the dollars end up in State coffers; the workers are paid in pesos. The Government can afford to give away the shop and it still comes out ahead."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 01:09 AM

Official Canadian government info on weed:

  Short-Term Effects
  
  As THC enters the brain, users may feel anxious, euphoric, 'high' and/or fearful. Others may feel relaxed and talkative. Some people enjoy the perceptual distortions produced by cannabis; other people find these effects to be unpleasant. When first using cannabis, many people do not experience psychoactive effects (effects which affect the mind, mood or mental processes), but with repeated use they do.
  
  Short-term use of cannabis can produce many other effects:
  
      * red eyes
      * spontaneous laughter
      * drowsiness
      * increased hunger (often called "munchies")
      * mild paranoia, anxiety or panic
      * impaired reaction time, coordination and motor skills
      * impaired short-term memory
      * increased heart rate and decrease in blood pressure (may lead to fainting)
      * dry mouth and throat
      * irritation of the respiratory tract (with smoking)
  
  In addition, a person could potentially experience:
  
      * hallucinations (seeing something that does not exist)
      * pseudo-hallucinations (seeing colours or patterns that the user knows are not real)
      * paranoia
      * severe agitation
      * disorientation
      * abdominal pain
  
  On its own, cannabis intoxication is not lethal. However, cannabis interferes with concentration, perception, reaction time, and coordination. These effects impair a person's ability to drive safely (cars, boats, snow mobiles, etc) or operate any machinery.
  
  Alcohol and cannabis intensify each other's effects. Combined use may result in severe impairment.
  
  Cannabis, either alone or in combination with alcohol, is a factor in many injuries and unintentional deaths.
  Long-Term Effects
  
  Cannabis smoke irritates the respiratory passages. This can lead to bronchitis, especially if used regularly. Cannabis smoke has some of the same toxic substances that are found in tobacco smoke that can cause cancer.
  
  Frequent cannabis use affects motivation and concentration. It can interfere with school and job performance.
  
  Long-term heavy use may also precipitate psychosis or schizophrenia in individuals with a familial predisposition. Schizophrenia is a psychiatric disorder. People with schizophrenia lose touch with reality and may:
  
      * experience paranoia
      * have delusions [att: Bobert]
      * hallucinate
  
  Cannabis use can complicate the course and treatment of this disorder, for example it can enhance the symptoms of schizophrenia.
  
  Subtle learning problems have been reported in young children who were exposed to cannabis in the womb.
  Is Cannabis Addictive?
  
  It may be. Psychological dependence (addiction) to cannabis can develop with regular use and physical dependence may develop in individuals who use high doses daily. Individuals who have developed physical dependence may experience mild withdrawal symptoms if the drug is stopped abruptly.
  
  Cannabis withdrawal symptoms include:
  
      * craving
      * irritability
      * anxiety
      * loss of appetite
      * stomach discomfort
      * tremors
      * sweating
      * difficulty sleeping
  
  These symptoms may last for about a week but sleep disturbances may last longer.
  

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:19 AM

The Cdn Govt. also spent $5 million on an underground grow-op in Flin Flon... the weed was so crappy it had cancer patients puking and running back to the street dealers for the good stuff...

so much for Ottawa bureaucratic expertise on the magic herb, even tho the Senate recommended legalization a few years ago...
they could use it..

and now on to the snowboarding event...

my contribution to the 'war on drugs'.. is that I used to grow it and give it away... I haven't done that for awhile, but that's okay, there's lots of Afghani hash coming thru Trenton these days..

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 10:48 AM

First of all Sawzaw I am not your "POP"!
What is becoming more obvious is that you are nothing but a troll!
Therefore I have broken the Mudcat commandment "Don't feed the trolls!" For that I am sorry and I will respond to no more postings from Sawzaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 11:53 AM

So I am "son" but you are not "pop"? Blimey!

Launch an ad hominem argument and then call call the response a troll.

What a perfectly good reason not to answer pertinent questions.

Notice that I have not made any assertions about your character.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 03:15 PM

Sorry Sandy, it was Mick that claims I am his son.

You say "If Cuba wants to develop its natural resources that is Cuba's business."

If the Cuban government had the mental capacity, they could, Instead they allow corporations from other countries do the dirty work because the do not let any corporations to exist in Cuba.

Rather they "rent" their workers out to those corporations and keep the vast majority of their pay. They are entitled to do so just as they are entitled to jail anybody that complains about the shitty conditions that exist.

And the US government is entitled to place what ever sanctions it fells is necessary.

The Cuban government can't tax the people's income cause the poor bastards make just enough to survive.

Corporations are evil but The Cuban government can't survive without them. They found this out after they seized all of the assets of corporations when Castro took power. That is what the "piece of shit" Helms Burton is all about.

I have never been on weed and do not suffer the resulting delusions Don.

Who can explain the magic about Cuba having to trade with the mean old US? Is there a embargo on food or medicine?

Despite the embargo, the United States is the fifth largest exporter to Cuba. 6.6% of it's imports are from the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 03:56 PM

I've been in Cuba. I've also been in some other countries down that way. The average Cuban is considerably better off in many respects than the average person in those other countries, and for one reason only: because Fidel succeeded in his revolution and threw out that corrupt bastard, Batista...a dear friend of the Mafia and of American Big Business. The average Cuban was so much worse off under Batista that they can be very grateful to Fidel for launching his revolution.

It is not only the Cuban government that "can't survive" without cooperating to some extent with North American big business interests...no one else in this hemisphere can survive without doing it either, because the present trade system is RUN by North American Big Business. This does not indicate hypocrisy on the part of Cuba, it indicates that they are capable of dealing with reality as they must.

****

But quite aside from all that....are you ready for this?




KERRRRR-FLUMMMMPPPPPFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was the sound of Canada landing.... after that long and precipitous fall from its high horse. ;-)

When you have that far to fall, you land HARD.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:22 PM

Thought I'd throw a song into the mix. From Merle Haggard--and just to lighten the back-and-forth a tad.

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:23 PM

Thought I'd throw a song into the mix. From Merle Haggard--and just to lighten the back-and-forth a tad.

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 08:33 AM

here's a quick interpretation of another Hag classic....

"We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee,
We wait and take our trips out to BC
Who wants to be a stoner down in Oklahomer
It's a wasted buzz without the mountains and the sea

Pierre Berton showed Mercer how to roll one
and never burnt his lips on the CBC
Good ol Tommy Chong was busted for a bong
Barking US narcs just ain't a comedy

So I'd rather be a Canuck in Tuktoyaktuk
A place where even balls can end up square
Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins is coming to stuff our stockins
A Canajun Cannabis Christmas is in the air


just havin' fun.. is all    R.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 08:40 AM

"The average Cuban was so much worse off under Batista"

Care to elaborate on that with some examples?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 10:00 AM

There are lots of good books you can read about it, Sawzaw. I'll PM you some titles when I get home. (I'm visiting friends now.) Then again, you could just talk to the fine people I met in Cuba when I was there. They remember Batista, and they believe in Castro's revolution. One of them is named Freddy Gonzales. He's an English language interpreter for the Presbyterian church school in Cardenas. He came to Canada twice now...and he didn't sieze the opportunity to flee Cuba and take "refuge" here...so he obviously believes in Cuba and likes being there, even though he could easily earn 10 or 20 times the income in Canada that he does there. You have to wonder why? Well, I'll tell you why. He loves his country and believes in it, same as I do (I mean, I love my country, Canada, and I believe in it).

I know that there are some Cubans who hate Castro's revolution. A lot of them are in Florida, and you can talk to them all about it. The thing is, there are many Cubans who love Castro's revolution too. You can't understand why unless you ALSO talk to them...and that's something most Americans have never done and never even had the opportunity to.

You'd have to go there, meet those people, and hear their reasons for supporting Castro's revolution, and then you'd get the whole story.

I respect people on both sides of the Cuban argument...they all have their reasons...but you've got to listen to both sides to understand what the heck happened in that country in the last 50 or 60 years.

Castro could have been one of the best friends the USA ever had...but Washington decided to crush his revolution in the cradle, so he went to the Russians instead. That was Washington's BIG mistake, and they did it because a bunch of American businessmen and Mafia people got offended by Castro. They should have told them "Tough!" and done business with Castro from Day 1. They'd have had an ally in Cuba instead of an enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 05:05 PM

How much of Freddy Gonzales's property was seized by the Cuban Government?

How many of his relatives were murdered by Che?

If you would talk to the same people I have talked to that have been to the real Cuba you would realize that all that "Cuba is good" "US is bad" shit is part of the high horse that Canucks ride.

* Chief executioner for the Castro regime, responsible for the murder of thousands
* Was appointed Cuba's Minister of Economics in 1960; within months the Cuban peso was practically worthless.
* Was appointed Cuba's Minister of Industries in 1961; within a year a previously prosperous nation was rationing food, closing factories, and losing hundreds of thousands of its most productive citizens, who were happy to flee with only the clothes on their backs.

In August of 1960, a year and a half after Che Guevara entered Havana ahead of his "column" of "guerrillas," Time magazine featured the revolutionary comandante on its cover and crowned him the "Brains of the Cuban Revolution." (Fidel Castro was "the heart" and Raul Castro "the fist.")

"Wearing a smile of melancholy sweetness that many women find devastating," read the Time article, "Che guides Cuba with icy calculation, vast competence, high intelligence and a perceptive sense of humor."

"This is not a Communist Revolution in any sense of the term," The New York Times had declared a year earlier. "Fidel Castro is not only not a Communist, he is decidedly anti-Communist."

"It would be a great mistake," Walter Lippmann wrote in the Washington Post that same month, "even to intimate that Castro's Cuba has any real prospect of becoming a Soviet satellite."

A few months earlier the London Observer had observed: "Mr. Castro's bearded youthful figure has become a symbol of Latin America's rejection of brutality and lying. Every sign is that he will reject personal rule and violence."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 05:29 PM

From A Canadian travel bureau website :

http://www.realcubaonline.com/help_hospitals.asp

YOU CAN HELP >> HOSPITALS

All public health units are in dire need of nearly everything.

The following is a general list:

    * MEDICATIONS - we can take in sample medications (doctors please talk to your suppliers) or larger quantities - the medication must be current when it enters the country. All medications are useful. No personal prescriptions please.
    * OVER THE COUNTER - Advil, Tylenol, Cold Medications, Cough Medications etc.
    * MEDICAL SUPPLIES - bandages, gloves, small equipment, stethoscopes, blood pressure cuffs etc. etc.
    * MEDICAL EQUIPMENT - EGC machines and the paper for them, any other equipment you can spare.

Please contact us and we can make arrangements for collection or for shipping to us.

Any traveler is allowed to carry in up to 10kgs of medications and medical supplies, but you must give up part of your luggage allowance or pay for the excess. It is advisable to have a contact at a clinic or hospital whom you can trust to make sure that the drugs enter the public health system and are not sold on the street.


You can help? Bullshite. Cuba is the one bragging about giving away free medical help for other poor countries but they don't have aspirin for their own people?

Radio Habana:

Cuba's medical assistance to Guatemala gives the vast majority of poor people in that Central American nation access to health care. Eleven years have passed since the first Cuban medical brigade arrived in the country -- following the devastating passage of Hurricane Mitch in 1998.

Cuban doctors and health care specialists, who usually work in the most remote corners of the Central American country, have already treated nearly 40 million people, providing medical assistance to those with serious economic limitations.

Guatemalan authorities have pointed out that since the arrival of Cuban doctors and medical personnel, the quality of health services in their country has improved greatly.

Unfucking believable. They neglect their own people so they can act like heros in other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: bobad
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 06:49 PM

"Unfucking believable. They neglect their own people so they can act like heros in other countries."

Uh, does that remind you of some other country?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 08:08 PM

If you are making a snotty comment about the USA, currently I don't feel neglected at all. I feel like I have been given every opportunity imaginable instead of being denied opportunities.

I feel like a lucky SOB and I feel sorry for people with a victim mentality who assign themselves to being poor neglected losers.

They can always emigrate to a communist country where they won't be so neglected.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 09:11 PM

I don't know where your hatred of Castro's Cuba emanates from, Sawzaw, but it's misguided.

Not only do they help other Latin American countries with medical care, but they are the only country in the western hemisphere (Canada included) that provides free medical treatment of every kind to their people, free education right through university level, and even free veterinary care. That's right. Free.

The people who lost out in Castro's revolution were a bunch of American companies, the Mafia, and various Cubans who had jobs in that specific system and were cashing in on the status quo at that time. The people who gained were a much greater number of Cubans who got social services and a decent society around them for the first time in their lives.

Why do I not hear from you about the horrors that Batista visited upon ordinary Cubans? Why do I not hear from you about the thousands he had murdered and raped by his soldiers and police? Why do I not hear from you about all the young women who were forced into prostitution for the amusement of Mafiosos and rich tourists and visiting American businessmen?

Why? Do you think that Cuban history suddenly started with Fidel Castro, and that nothing that went before even matters?

Look, I've been there. They are healthier on average than us North Americans, they look better on average than us North Americans, they dress better when they go out in the evening than we do, they are more mature on average than North Americans, they're not fat and lazy, they put the North American population to shame in my opinion. And they have 1/20 of the material wealth we do. Maybe that's why they're so much more mature and have such a better social life and actually DO things like music and sports rather than just plunking down in front of their TV and watching someone else do it.

We live in the land of self-indulgence, Sawzaw. Cubans live in the land of courage. Better believe it. I love the people I met down there, and I'd rather die for them any day than die for the idiots who have tried to crush their revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 09:32 PM

I wouldn't sall facing reality a hatred LH.

"free medical treatment of every kind to their people"

Consisting of what LH?

http://cuba-blog.teresabevin.com/?p=103#comment-8059

So does North Korea where hundreds maybe thousands starve every day.

In an airless, dark hospital in North Korea a man with burns covering two-thirds of his body lay in the corner of a room. He had been hideously burned by molten iron and only a skin graft could save his life. The hospital had no technical equipment, bandages, scalpels, antibiotics or anesthesia to treat him. So the North Korean doctors and nurses gave the only treatment they had: their own skin. One by one they lined up to have portions of their skin removed with a razor blade to save this man's life.

Physician Norbert Vollertsen, a member of a German medical group working at this hospital, joined the line to donate skin -- which was removed without anesthesia. The patient survived with a combination of German and North Korean skin. By chance the North Korean media were present, recorded the event and, as a result, Vollertsen was awarded the Friendship Medal. He is one of only two foreigners ever to receive that high honor. Vollertsen also was given a VIP passport and a license to drive in the country, which is how this German doctor was able to see more of that closed, communist nation than any Westerner before him....

...The German doctor says he continues to hope that North Korea will have the same experience as his homeland, insisting: "It wasn't through diplomacy that East Germany crumbled; it was through brave men and women facing the truth about life there so that, one by one, citizens started to defect until soon there were hundreds and the Berlin Wall came down. That is the only way change can come to North Korea."..

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 12:00 AM

LH I can understand your blinding hatred for Batista. Do you have a score of deaths for Batista VS Castro?

I think Canada should adopt the polices of Castro's government and lock your ass up for going against your goverments policies and your views on people growing pot.

US rolls Batista under da bus:

On December 11, 1958, U.S. Ambassador Earl Smith visited Batista at his hacienda, "Kuquines". There Smith informed him that the United States could no longer support his regime. Batista asked if he could go to his house in Daytona Beach. The ambassador denied his request and suggested instead that he seek asylum in Spain.

On December 31, 1958, Batista raised a New Year's Eve toast to his cabinet members and senior military officers and told them hasta la vista. After seven years, Batista knew his presidency was over and fled the island in the early morning hours as rebel forces entered Havana.

Castro gets things straight:

In September 1960, Castro created Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, which implemented neighbhorhood spying in an effort to weed out "counter-revolutionary" activities.[Patriot act bad Castro good]

By the end of 1960, all opposition newspaper had been closed down and all radio and television stations were in state control, run under the Leninist principle of Democratic Centralism.[US media is under control of government which is bad But OK for Castro or Chavez] Moderates, teachers and professors were purged. [Kill em all let god sort them out] He was accused of keeping about 20,000 dissents held captive and tortured under inhuman prison conditions every year.[Guantanamo bad Castro good]

Groups such as homosexuals were locked up in concentration camps in the 1960s, where they were subject to medical-political "re-education".[Homophobia bad Castro good] Castro's admiring description of rural life in Cuba ("in the country, there are no homosexuals") reflected the idea of homosexuality as bourgeois decadence, and he denounced "maricones" (faggots) as "agents of imperialism".[Watch out Barney] Castro stated that "homosexuals should not be allowed in positions where they are able to exert influence upon young people"

Castro on whores:

Once known as "the brothel of the Caribbean" due to its reputation as a haven for rich Americans looking for sex, gambling and a swinging nightlife, Cuba drastically cleaned up society after Castro's 1959 revolution. [Old Havana bad Las Vegas good Reno good]


The EU on Cuba:

A whereas one of the main objectives of the European Union continues to be to uphold the universality and indivisibility of human rights — including civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights — as proclaimed by the 1993 World Conference in Vienna on human rights,
B. whereas the recent events in Cuba, such as the numerous arrests, imprisonments and severe sentences after summary trials affecting more than 70 dissidents and human rights activists, as well as the resumed use of the death penalty, have led the Commission to suspend the evaluation report on the Cuban request for accession to the Cotonou Agreement,
C. whereas the Government of Cuba from its side has decided to withdraw, for the second time, its request for accession to the Cotonou Agreement,
D. whereas the European Union has recently decided to limit bilateral high-level governmental visits; to reduce the profile of Member States' participation in cultural events; to invite Cuban dissidents to national day celebrations; and to proceed to the re-evaluation of its common position,

Cuba has one of the highest life expectancy rates in the region, with the average citizen living to 77.45 years old (just under the United States' 78.11 years) [proving Americans kill them selves at a fraster rate]

Challenges include relatively low pay of doctors (physicians are paid only 15 dollars a month), poor facilities, poor provision of equipment, and frequent absence of essential drugs.[Roger, tell me it ain't so] Cubans often rely on sociolismo and corruption.[US health care bad Cuba heajth care good]

A Canadian Medical Association Journal paper states that "The famine in Cuba during the Special Period was caused by political and economic factors similar to the ones that caused a famine in North Korea in the mid-1990s. Both countries were run by authoritarian regimes that denied ordinary people the food to which they were entitled when the public food distribution collapsed; priority was given to the elite classes and the military."[but the US is so much worse] The regime did not accept donations of food, medicines and cash from the US until 1993.[the US is so stingy and mean that way]

According to the UNAIDS report of 2003 there were an estimated 3,300 Cubans living with HIV/AIDS (approx 0.05% of the population). In the mid-1980s, when little was known about the virus, Cuba compulsorily tested thousands of its citizens for HIV. Those who tested positive were taken to Los Cocos and were not allowed to leave. [ Cuba good US bad because it lets those HIV folks run loose]

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 12:22 AM

Happy citizens of Cuba:

The New York Times

Like many prostitutes who ply their trade in the darkened bars and discos near Havana's tourist hotels, Maria says she does not go out every night. But whenever money gets tight and her 12-year-old son is hungry, she puts on a red miniskirt, puts rouge on her lips and heads for El Conejito bar, a thinly disguised rendezvous point.

"Most of the tourists come to look for girls, tobacco, you know, the things they cannot get in their country," she said. "They say the Cuban girls are very hot."

Maria, who is 36 and insisted that her last name not be published, said she worried about contracting AIDS and forced her clients to use condoms, every time. She is knowledgeable about the disease, having learned about it through the government's anti-AIDS program, and she was tested twice during a stint in jail last year for prostitution.

An arrest can mean a two-year prison term. But some women said they kept relationships with pimps to pay off the police.

For the most part, the women who work as prostitutes say they are looking to link up with someone who can take them out of Cuba, or provide them with a steady income. Many are part-time prostitutes, who go out only when their meager state salaries run out.

Hermita, 28, a secretary at a school who earns about $8 a month, was trolling for tourists near the Hotel Inglaterra in Old Havana on a recent evening. She has a 2-year-old daughter from a marriage that did not last, and she said she needed money for food, clothing and shoes.

Maria A., 23, said she gave up working as a hairdresser and started sleeping with tourists two years ago. She said she came close to striking it rich when an older Italian tourist had agreed to pay for an apartment for her. But they quarreled on a subsequent visit, she said, and now she is on the hunt again. In the meantime, she collects $40 to $70 a night from any tourist she can lure to a rooming house with which she has a mutually beneficial arrangement.

"Nobody does this because they like it," she said, drawing on a cigarette. "I would marry someone to get out."

What? Get out of Cuba? Why leave such a workers paradise, a garden of Eden for mankind, a Mecca of free health care?

Those poor overburdened Canadians should be leaving that icebound hellhole for good and emigrating there. They would never have to eat blubber, berries and dried caribou again. They could trade in their mukluks for flip flops. And no taxes!

¡Viva la Revolución!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 01:44 AM

"The National Task Force on Prostitution suggests that over one million people in the US have worked as prostitutes in the United States, or about 1% of American women."

Maybe the US should fall off its high horse, too.