Eddi Reader - Undervalued?

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

Clik-ka-dee doo dah


Spaw

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:48 AM

"No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make."

That's fair enough LC. No real idea about folk artists/folk music industry as I've never really followed folk as a musical genre. Don't think to be fair, I've witnessed that much of it so far. But there certainly can be quite a high degree of cliquery to be found in many music circles which eschews the work of successful artists, seemingly purely because they incidentally happen to be successful.

Most popular music doesn't grab me, possibly because it can sound like the musical equivalent of Findus Crispy Pancakes. Yet, there are great bands and great tracks which are also highly successful too, and I can do my fair share of commercial music if it just happens to please me. For example, I'm quite a sucker for cheesy classic Dance tracks especially! How's that for commercial?

Open Your Mind

PS I don't actually like this particular track, but you may find the 'New World Order' conspiracy theory video up your ally... ;-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:34 AM

"Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)"


Mmkay, let me see if I've got this argument right...

The Secret Circle of the Secret Friends of the Secret Society of the Folk Police hate and resent and are jealous of everything that is commercially successful. Except when they don't and they're not. Everyone from James Taylor to Judy Collins to John Martyn to Richard Thompson is IN the SC of the SF of the SC of the FP, but everyone Lizzie champions is not, because the people Lizzie champions have achieved commercial success. Oh wait - all of those other people have achieved commercial success, too. So the SC of the SF (etc) likes commercial success. Except when it doesn't. And it likes the people who achieve it. Except when it doesn't. And all these people such as Eddi Reader, who have never been appreciated (except when they're being awarded honorary degrees, or playing mainstages at folk festivals, or generally having quite a robust and healthy following) need Lizzie to champion them because all the nasty Folky Fundamentalists in the SC of the SF (etc) are picking on them. Except when they're not, and in fact they weren't, until Lizzie started another chippie thread about how everyone had to like all of the music she likes, all the time, or else we're a bunch of closed-minded, insular Folkie Fundies who are determined to Keep People Out.

Have I got it right?


Eddi's a very nice lady, by the way - we bonded while washing the mud off our feet in the sinks at Cropredy a few years ago (she was a headliner, despite the fact that she is obviously loathed by the folk community). And I always did like Fairground Attraction - I'm of the right generation. So I guess I'm not in the Folk Police after all. Hurrah! Glad that's finally sorted.

By the way - it was the Equation that signed with Warner's over 10 years ago. Seth Lakeman as a solo artist signed to EMI. I have never, ever heard anyone have issues with the Equation because of their record label. There were certainly other issues, but that was not one of them. I will not talk about those issues on a public forum, as it would be inappropriate, but it was nothing to do with who they signed with, or when or why. Eliza Carthy also signed to Warners, and it didn't seem to do her any harm in the public's perception. Oh, I forgot: that's cause, despite commercial success, she's in the SC of the SF of the...

*yawn*

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:32 AM

"I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?"

Not me - he does seem to play very well! :-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:30 AM

Yes Sc and CS ty
Thanks for the heads up on LNV. Brilliant!
Love these nitpicky threads eh?
Ah well thats my mudcat fix for the day. Back to important things.
Al

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:28 AM

I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM

Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:59 AM

Nasty? Moi? Never! Just pointing out a few obvious flaws. On which subject...

What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

I presume the 'secret seven' is those who promote folk music in the media? Maybe the BBC - remember that place? Lets just look at the 'pure' folk music they promote by the simple means of seeing who they awarded things to -

2009 Lifetime achievement awards to James Taylor and Judy Collins. A pair who have obviously never seen the 'bigtime'.

2008 - Lifetime achievement award: John Martyn. Well, did you ever?

2007 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Pentangle. Never been in the public eye I guess.

2006 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Richard Thompson. No-hoper if I ever saw one.

2005 - Good Tradition Award: Steeleye Span. Surely not that rowdy electric band who achieved nothing?

And I have not even gone into other awards or categories.

Sorry, but we should put an end to the misnomer that anyone who suceeds is automaticaly excluded from the 'folk scene. Whatever that may be. The only exclusions from this imagined club are in the eye of the beholder.

DeG

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:40 AM

Eddie Reader, MBE and a doctorate, so what ? they have been giving Sean Connery awards for years and he can't even be arsed to live in his native country.

And don't be fooled, Lizzie doesn't really like folk music, all her ' discoveries ' are closer to pop than folk.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:30 AM

Spleen, LNV = great stuff!

"(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)"

You are pure EVIL LC!!!
I've got all red in the face from laughing so hard at that... ;-D

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:25 AM

"This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope..."

Now now, David...don't be gettin' a-nasty. :0)

Besides, Joe removed my 'final thread' so that means that it never existed...

(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 AM

Double sigh....posted too soon again...


No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make.

If you'd read my post correctly, you'd have ascertained that.

The problem here is that so many people apparently *know* **exactly** what I mean, even better than I do! It never ceases to amaze me.


I have an open mind, therefore I've never judged Seth Lakeman on his Warner Brothers deal, never chosen NOT to forgive him for it, as many on here seem to do....and if you don't believe that has happened to Seth, and the rest of those involved in Equation, then I'd suggest you read the entire chapter which Colin Irwin wrote about Seth Lakeman's career, in his wonderful book 'In Search of Albion'.

You may or may not like Eddi's music. That's fine by me. What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

:0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

CS - Les Negresses Vertes are folk enough for me - I always thought of them as a French version of the Clash. Saw them live years ago and they were truly amazing.

Zobi La Mouche

Eddi Reader? Not my cuppa tea, but hardly undervalued.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM

>>>>>"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.<<<<<<

Sigh.....

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM

Short extracts from Wikipedia - the font of all knowledge. If you want any more you can sing it yourself:-)

In 1988 the band signed to RCA/BMG records and released their first single, "Perfect", which became a UK number one, winning best single at the 1989 BRIT Awards. Their first album, The First of a Million Kisses, was also a success, reaching number two in the UK Albums Chart, and winning best album at the 1989 Brits.

Failed pop singer? I think not.

Awards
The Robert Burns project saw Reader awarded an MBE for outstanding contributions to the arts in the New Year's honours list of 2006[10].

In May 2007 she was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Strathclyde[11].

Later that year she was recognised for her contributions to music and to the education and encouragement of young musicians with an honorary doctorate and a Doctor of Letters from Glasgow Caledonian University[12].

In June 2008 she received another doctorate for her musical work, this time from the University of Stirling[13].

Undervalued? I think not.

Good singer? Personal taste.

Folk singer? Define folk!

Eddi is only valued by those with open minds? Should this be read as only those who agree with Lizzie? Again - I think not.

This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope...

DeG

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM

"Vintage LC!
The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded."

Lollers!
Yep, she sure is good at it..

Eddi Reader is alright, but frankly it's all a wee bit too boring for me to get excited over. Err, in fact I tend to find most folk-pop dull and lack-lustre but hey, that's me. Call me small-minded if you like!

Are 'Les Negresses Vertes' considered 'folk'? I've been revisiting their music this weekend, and stuff by Gogol Bordello. Undervalued? I dunno, but it's a real blast.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:03 AM

I think Lizzie C is a camp icon.

More than Eddi Reader could ever hope to be.

This probably isn't very constructive.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 AM

"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

"The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued."

Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds.

This thread has proved, yet again, that any singer who dares to have any form of commercial success is looked down upon by those who feel folk music should only be sung 'amongst us' in back rooms or tents.

You know, this thread has made me remember one of the strangest threads on the BBC. It was about Barbara Dickson...and I think I started it, although I can't recall exactly, as it was years back.

Well, I dared to say I loved Barbara's voice and suddenly, down flew The Dimentors....how they verbally kicked and abused her...And the strangest thing of all was when Ian Anderson came over to the thread, saying to me that even though we disagreed so vehemently about so many things, he was asking me really nicely to back off on this thread and leave it alone.   ????????

I think Barbara's producer may have come into the thread, again, I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me on that.....And I sat there wondering what the hell was happening. The thread was taking the course that Barbara had chosen to go away from the folk scene, had then made it mega big time..and now, she was trying to get back into the folk scene again....And BOY, was that being frowned upon!

WHO are these people? What is wrong with them? WHY would they want to try to ensure that positive discussion of a person like Barbara Dickson would be smeared with this jealous, nasty, spiteful attitude all the time.

It is one thing to not like someone's music, as we all love different things, but in my book, it is a whole other thing to try and deliberately damage someone's career or make them feel bad about themselves...and I will never stop defending someone, if I see that happening.

Eddi is saying on this documentary (see michael's post).....about how she struggled terribly with the glitz and glamour of the pop world...of how she had to almost parade in front of Annie Lennox, when she was a backing singer for her, in different crazy outfits, when all she wanted to do was put on her jeans and a t shirt and sing her heart out.


Eddi's myspace

Barbara Dickson's myspace

Eddi's 'Bell Book and Candle' - beautiful!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:06 AM

Yes, the duet with Karen Matheson was memorable. There's no doubt that Eddie Reader is one of the most hard-working people in music.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: evansakes
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:15 AM

Eddi Reader....a "failed pop singer" chancing to jump on the folk "gravy train"?

Or a folk-roots singer willingly accepting a small bit of commercial success when it came her way?

Me? I couldn't give a hoot either way! I'd contend she's a national treasure though and is always likely to put a smile on people's faces wherever she goes. I was not alone in being moved to tears when she duetted with Karen Matheson and Capercaillie on 'Ae Fond Kiss' at Cambridge a few years ago.

She was back again this year....and even led a "folk" workshop.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/cambridgefolkfestival/2009/folk-workshop/

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:51 AM

The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Zen
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

Amen to that!

Eddi Reader is excellent and always has been (IMHO of course).

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:09 AM

Yukkkkkkk
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:08 AM

I've never quite understood the "failed pop singer" label that seems to get attached to Eddi Reader - I would expect that the success of Fairground Attraction means she's got the financial security to do what she wants - and it looks like she is. Fair play to her...

Pete.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:49 AM

Thanks for that link, michael..I hadn't arrived at that one yet.

So, Eddi's story is almost a folk song in itself. I'm watching Part 1 at the moment, where she's talking about her young life, growing up in the slums of Glasgow..but still feeling so happy, surrounded by a strong community...and then....they knocked the whole lot down.

They left the church however, standing proud in the middle of nowhere..with the new motorway dwarfing it.

And there's Eddi standing outside it, her arms outstretched, saying she can't really understand why they left the church there, because....and she throws her arms out at this point..."*where* is your congregation?"


This lady has had the toughest start in life, yet a warm family surrounding her all the time..and she's talking about how the whole family sang, all the time.....and she can't remember ever wanting to be anything *but* a singer.

I'm so glad she got her wish! :0)

And I've no problem with the way Eddi uses her arms when she sings, but I do have a real problem with people who seem to want others to be like robots and not move at all whilst they sing or talk. To me that is totally unnatural. I cannot speak without moving my arms and hands. For their information, many of us have arms which are deeply connected to our thoughts, and they are as much our voice as our vocal chords are.

She's a warm, expressive, thoughtful person, and I'd recommend everyone to watch the video that michael has linked to a few posts above this.

Thanks, michael! :0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 AM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Er....yes. It's difficult to disagree with that as it stands, but I can't quite see the relevance of it to Eddi Reader. She is 50, you know! Or is the above comment aimed only at the over 50s?

PLease clarify!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Effsee
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM

Sorry, I admit to being... GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

Lost my cookie somehow!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Matt_R
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM

I love Eddi Reader. My wife and I had our first dance to Fairground Attraction's "Allelujah" at our wedding last month.

I also love the Trashcan Sinatras, which feature both her brother and her longtime boyfriend.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

Thanks for the supportive voices; it's good to know my POV is not a lonely one.

For those who like Eddi, here's part 1 of a three-part documentary from 1992. Made long before she did her best work, it shows her already to be a mature and passionate performer.

I completely disagree with Joe Offer about Simple Soul. There's not a hint in Eddi's singing of Sinead O'Connor's strained, nasal tones. ER radiates warmth, emotion and, as the song says, a simple soul. One of Boo's best, and a perfect collaboration.

Lizzie above linked to the thread I started in 2002 when I first heard Eddi Reader. My wonderment has not abated since. I encourage you all to seek out more of her music. It is honest, direct, and from the heart.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Dead right, michael.

Anyway, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here on this thread...but I do have a creative idea for what we could do about it.

Let's ALL threaten to leave Mudcat once and for all if our specific desires are not met here! Then we'll have emotional blackmail going every which way, everyone will get those pent-up hostile feelings off their chests, and that should spin this thread out to at least 20,000 more posts with no trouble at all. ;-)

Oh, and may I mention as an aside (paid political announcement): Vote for Chongo in 2012!!! It's only 3 years away, you know. If you're not an American citizen, send money anyway to the American Primate Party...329 Tarzana Avenue, Santa Cruz, California. In lieu of money, send fresh bananas. No contribution whether large or small will be refused!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM

Well said, michaelr. Both posts.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:28 PM

Hudreds of threads, and the same old posts over and over again.

All you naysayers remind me of the old fogies who poo-poohed The Beatles when they first appearded, saying stupid things like "That's not music, that's just noise" and the like.

Time marches on, and nothing stays the same. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Get used to it, and fer chrissakes stop whining about it.

There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind. Which is a commodity in short supply at Mudcat, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM

I agree with GUEST who called big Edna a failed pop singer trying to make a nest for herself in "modern" traditional music.
In saying that I know many who enjoy what she produces and she has become a bit of a minor celebrity in her native Scotland.

Worryingly, over the years, I am finding myself more and more in accord with the views of our leader Joe Offer, especially his views expressed on this thread on the subject of folk/traditional music and how promotion and marketing can change it from a genre full of emotion and nuance, into just another mode of entertainment,

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:29 PM

"Sorry for the thread drift - but it needed saying."

FolkieDave: no offense but no it really didn't. IMO you don't need to patronise the board by repeatedly explaining to everyone at length what a pain LizzieC is. She pisses you and others off, I got that many months ago. We all know why LC annoys people - she's got an OTT manner and no-doubt there's all kinds of goodies I could look up on the now infamous BBC Boards if I gave a shit, but guess what - I don't give a shit! If you think she's an attention seeker, don't give it to her. Simple as. No wonder she claims she's got an effing "following". Anyway, that's the last thing I'm ever going to say about it. Have a nice night all, I'm off to do something less boring instead, like watch trashy TV.. ;-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:19 PM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

You wanna bash me, (again, as you always, obsessively do), then please start your own thread to do that in, Dave, and take Diane with you.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM

Anz in case anyone thinks I made it up...........

From: Lizzie Cornish - PM
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

I feel nothing anymore for any of you. Not hatred, not anger, not disgust, just a complete and utter void. You are all of no consequence or meaning to me anymore, whatsoever.

You do not love this music as I do, you merely use it to abuse, belittle and bully. But, it is your freedom to do that...and so I will leave you to it. I hope you will all be very happy together on your new fun and lively board. I wish you all well.

And now, from my point of view, there is nothing further I want to say in here....but I'm sure you have more venom to spit out, so....I will let you do just that.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Ms Reader is a mainstream popsinger who does one or two f*lk-tinged numbers. Her profile is quite high enough and has been for a very long time before lizziecornish "discovered" her. And so it is with all these "finds" she goes on to lionise and embarrass at inordinate length while adding not one iota of insight or new information to the public profile of artists that the rest of us have all known about for ever.

Ms Cornish victimises herself because she likes nothing better than jumping up and hanging herself up on a metaphorical crucifix and wailing - much in the style of her latest idol - that nobody listens to what she says. That's because she has nothing of any value to convey, just endless torrents of hyped up sycophancy ranging down to complete garbage through a tedious gamut of subjects whether she knows anything about them or, most commonly, not.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:34 PM

This is my final thread on Mudcat, after being told that I don't see music in the same way as you 'musicians'...and being kind of lambasted for daring to say I thought Eddi Reader had the most beautiful voice..

For those not aware - Lizzie has a pattern of behaviour over the years since her first ever post. For pointing out this pattern I shall be accused of....well it doesn't matter really since she has promised this will be her last thread.........again.

The pattern invariably ends "This is my final thread on Mudcat" or "This is my final ever post on Mudcat" or something similar. One thing is for certain. She says it is final, but it never is.

She has over the years (amongst others) accused highly experienced radio producers, lawyers, teachers, NHS professionals, festival organisers, musicians etc etc of not knowing what they are talking about. She has heaped vituperative nonsense on all sorts of people. All of whom have been remarkably tolerant in patiently explaining why they felt her view might just be mistaken, because they themselves actually knew what they were talking about and hadn't just got their information from the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Wikipedia etc etc.. Their reward has been reiteration of the original horlicks.

If all of Lizzies posts are considered together, rather than individual threads taken in isolation, she is one of the most aggressive posters on Mudcat, constantly shouting and swearing and regularly attacking other posters for daring to disagree with her or to present an alternative to her dystopian view of present-day Britain.

She tells us that this is how she conducts herself in real life as well, with her regular reports of the latest person whom she's lost her rag with or the latest job she's flounced out of, the latest person she has reported to a higher authority, all because the rest of the world simply refuses to see things her way. While doing this and telling us all about it afterwards might make her feel better in the moment, it is hard to understand how such behaviour is at all productive.

If someone is going to persistently indulge in that kind of behaviour, and start thread after thread with half-cocked, inflammatory posts full of inconsistencies, paranoia, misleading statements and gross exaggerations, it is not bullying for the rest of the community to point out that the poster is, in fact, spouting bollocks. If the poster spouts an awful lot of bollocks, then expect the number of responses to be in proportion to the amount of bollocks produced. That's not bullying. Lizzie is an agitator, not a victim.

Sorry for the thread drift - but it needed saying.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Nelly
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:14 PM

Personally, and in my extremely humble opinion as a non-musician but never-the-less music lover, I don't think ER is an especially wonderful singer and the 'affected' way she has about her when singing puts me off watching her too. The best song I've ever heard her do is Wild Mountainside, which I sometimes sing in folk clubs but without the waily waily ending. It's the song i enjoy, not ER singing it. I'm sure if I heard someone else sing the song it would be even better.

Eddie Reader undervalued? Don't think so.

Nelly

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:50 PM

Eddi....another thread (and a very nice one too)

The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

Course you can't. She leapt up onto her "look at me, I'm a victim" bandwagon all by herself. <<<

I have only ever been yours (and your pals) prey, Diane, *never* a victim.

Mawkin Causley are nice lads, CS...and Jim Causley has the best giggle in town, as well as the best hug.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:17 AM

"On the other hand, commercial success could arguably be considered to represent the death knell of any art form, in as much as bar some highly unique and innovative artists, most stuff that is extremely popular also tends to be very bland, formulaic and faceless. And that too perhaps represents a form of 'death' IMO (just consider BritArt)."

Except that BritArt was never anything more than pure marketing; it set out to service a certain consumer group and that was that. Look at Damien Hirst's new paintings; even now those very critics who praised his early work are bleating that the Emperor's got no clothes. No shit sherlock.

I would argue that commercial success for most of the folk artists we know and admire is borne out artistic integrity and commitment to the music rather than them being bigged up from the outset by some corporate marketing machine (even if that happens at some point in their career). We have probably all been to the gigs of big folk names when they were slogging the circuit making a name for themselves through sheer hard work and love of the music.

Lizzie gets a kicking here frequently because of the way she words her posts. Her comments are no more or less relevant than anyone else's regardless of whether she's a singer, listener or musician. It's just part of the Mudcat feeding frenzy, and it's not too pretty to watch.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM

Oh, missed the new thread addition!

'Is folk music killing itself?'

Hmm, no I don't think it can do that. Though I do think that young and old don't always see eye to eye, as we can bare witness to on certain threads on here. I heard 'Mawkin: Causely' giggling on a radio interview a while back, about keeping well away from the grumpier traddy types who would (we were to understand from the 'naughty' giggling) no doubt be inclined censure some of their interpretations of folk song. And there does seem to be something of a divide there. On the other hand, commercial success could arguably be considered to represent the death knell of any art form, in as much as bar some highly unique and innovative artists, most stuff that is extremely popular also tends to be very bland, formulaic and faceless. And that too perhaps represents a form of 'death' IMO (just consider BritArt).

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:40 AM

Eddi Reader, undervalued?

I don't think so. She's obviously a good musician, and she's had a successful musical career from that. She's still busy working and I'm sure she does alright from it. But I don't personally think she's a musical Van Gogh or anything.

Even so, no harm in refreshing people's memories either.

Lot's of competent artists out there - who continue to gig and regularly put out albums for their fan-base - that it might be worth 'revisiting' once in a while in order to see what they're up to now.

Sorry to return to topic ;-)
As you were folks..

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:25 AM

Nobody doubts that you love the music, Lizzie - and you can't decide not to listen to the music just because you don't enjoy it in the same way as some other people do. Is it possible to stop listening to the music just because someone here said something nasty to you.

But this thread wasn't about Eddie Reader's voice. No-one objected to you saying she has a lovely voice. The thread is entitled "Eddie Reader - Undervalued?" That'a completely different topic.

It's not spite or nastiness, Lizzie. Truly it isn't.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

Course you can't. She leapt up onto her "look at me, I'm a victim" bandwagon all by herself.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:21 AM

Sorry, but I don't see Walkaboutsverse as the person needing regulation. If you find him disagreeable, leave him alone. We prohibit personal attacks, not distasteful thinking. It appears that you are far closer to being in violation of Mudcat rules than he is. The fact that a sizable mob at Mudcat has been treating WAV as a scapegoat for a considerable length of time, is no justification for the the continuation of this harassment.
If you don't like his poetry, leave him alone. This self-righteous mob harassing WAV and others, is an embarrassment to Mudcat.

Joe Offer, from the England mu England thread.

So what happens to the sense of this if we substitute LC1 for WAV? Especially in the light, or otherwise, of JO's posts above.

Man, the bullshit piles up to fast on Mudcat you need wings to stay about it!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Guest John Hartford
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:16 AM

I'm with Michael here.

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

I too am surprised to see the usually calm Joe wade in so strongly.....and IMHO wrongly !!

Not knowing what " a false dichotomy " is I do agree strongly with Michael's point about musicians being inspired both to play and perform by having listened and continuing listening to music and being captivated inspired by it.

Obviously with music having such wide ranges not every one is going to have the indentical tastes.

Like Michael I have been a performing musician and though I no longer play in public I still am an enthuiast.

I too detect the almost hatred of anything and anybody having even the slightest interest in "commercialism".

There appears to be a sense of snobbery attached to enjoying non-commercial music and a belief because of this it is in some way better.

This raises it's head in many of the threads here at Mudkat to a point of boredom.

Music should be enjoyed for what it is and not to create a class division as is often is here.

Just because you don't like something does not make it bad....

I will leave it here on this note before I fall off my soapbox !!

John

Surely to way to value music is by it's sound and not whether is makes money or not.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:19 AM

WHY do I always have to justify myself? Why can I not be left free to simply LOVE the music in my own way.

By all means love the music, Lizzie - and good luck to you with your enthusiasms. However, others will disagree, and not necessarily because of any so-called "snobbishness" about being folk or un-folk or anything else. You give the impression of seeing critical phantoms everywhere, as in:

(a) Eddi Reader is a great singer - but...
(b) Eddi Reader is not Top of the Charts or In the Public Eye - so...
(c) Eddi Reader is undervalued - therefore...
(d) Eddi Reader is the victim of - choose your "-ism"

My personal taste is what my personal taste happens to be - but I don't care two hoots if no-one else gets it. It's also perfectly possible to appreciate someone's talent and yet be unmoved by their performance. Here's an example from my own experience: Frank Sinatra. I can absolutely understand his artistry, the superb voice and breath control, the pitching, the interpretation of a song's lyrics, the phrasing, the lowering and heightening of tone, etc., etc. But I can't bear him as a performer and never have done. Simple as that. I used to play in 60s funk/jazz outfit and, with one exception - me - they all loved Sinatra. "Frank" they said in hushed tones when talking about him. And when they talked about him, I just kept silent!

You posted a link to "He Got All The Whiskey". Well, it's a great song but - IMHO - John Martyn and Eddi Reader just about buggered it up. The Bobby Charles original is excellent (written, I believe, about Albert Grossman), but they lose all the irony and grit of the original. But, you see, that's just my view of the track. You have your view. Enjoy - but don't ask me to enjoy it. :-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:41 AM

And to put this thread back on track....

Eddi and John Martyn - 'He Got All The Whiskey'



And yes, Joe....I hear you...."Don't post until four more posts have been posted, Lizzie, your new restrictions!"


Sod being 'restricted'...I'd rather be banned...