BS: Victoriaaaaaar

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 12:53 PM

...once pronounced as "conTROVersy", now pronounced as "CONtroVERSy".

Not by me.   But, to use the current idiom, I'm not bovvered. Language changes, always has. So long as I can understand what they are saying.

Mind, that's quite a proviso. I sit on a train and hear people chattering away in what I take to be a foreign language, and then it dawns on me, they are speaking English.

I don't mean they are foreigners speaking English, or even people from an immigrant background with a significantly different way of using the language. And it's not a matter of new words or strange words, it's the intonation and the rhythm, the kind of things that allow you to recognise a language even when you can't make out the words. Except in these cases, I couldn't do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 12:39 PM

And we have The Bill to thank for "BURGUWRY"!!

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: mandotim
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM

My favourite hate; using 'diffuse' when meaning 'de-fuse'. Ugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:49 AM

Rog Peek, you write of the 'miss use of words'.

Who she?

I assume you mean 'misuse'.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Rog Peek
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:25 AM

Of course, if it were a Bristolian speaking, it would have been Victorial station, and to be using Victorial station to catch a train would have been a very good ideal.

I don't really have a problem with regional pronunciation, what really gets my goat is the miss use of words like 'of'. For example, I heard a minister of the crown say on the radio the other day that she "was fed up of carrying her passport", when speaking in support of identity cards. Similarly, Gabby Logan used the same expression yesterday on the TV while presenting the Rugby.

While being more understandable perhaps, the expression "he should of ........." I find equally irritating.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:17 AM

And then there is the extra Y appearing from nowhere as in NOya, D becoming T etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:01 AM

To continue.....the market traders in Surrey Street Market in Croydon -


"PAN A BOAW" - what the hell does that mean????? You walk along and hear from all angles "PAN A BOAW" "PAN A BOAW". Then I noticed that fruit was set out in bowls, and someone was handed 4 £1 coins as change for a £5 note.


Ah..........."POUND A BOWL"........now I get it!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:01 AM

Ah - there's the rub: it might start out as laziness, but it ends up as part of the culture...

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:56 AM

I pressed the wrong key, this is not an evolving language, it's lazyness.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:54 AM

And as for the hideous raising of the voice at the end of every sentence - I totally despair.

Then there are the W people who change the L on the end of a word to W - a great proportion of the mob do this

CHEWLSEA, ARSENAW or more likely ARSNAW, FOOTBAW

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bainbo
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM

Mmm. I've just heard a radio reporter say that a football (soccer) player only managed to score becuase the ball landed "literally in his lap".

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:00 AM

One of my pet hates is to hear people say,"pacifically" instead of "specifically".I also shout at the television or radio when the word, "literally" is misused yet again.Must be getting old!

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:57 AM

All part of the "REEsearch" that's carried out these days - as opposed to the "reSEARCH" of yesteryear.

I recall my 6th form English master reading out the Prologue to Chaucer's "Nun's Priest's Tale" to us (working from the original rather than the well-known "translation" by Nevill Coghill). He used a northern-style accent - Yorkshire, Lancashire, take your pick - in which to read it, and it all suddenly seemed understandable and very modern. The theory at that time (early 1960s) was that Middle English period pronunciation was similar to a north-Britain accent than anything else. Our "received" pronunciation is, after all, a construct rather than a given.

With apologies to US 'Catters, to whom all this must seem very arcane!

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:52 AM

Why do so many English people , young and old , add that   "r" after a vowel ending ,if it is followed by certain first vowels or consonants ?and sometimes even if it is not ?
What is the "rule" ? anybody ? just curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:44 AM

If you left something out in the rain for ten years, it might well be decayed but it would have been there for a decade which, even among the educated middle classes, seems to be prounounced the same rather than dec-ade.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:11 AM

Examples of pronunciation changing over time include words like "controversy" - once pronounced as "conTROVersy", now pronounced as "CONtroVERSy".

The opening credits of the BBC2 "Eggheads" programme describe the resident team as "forMIDable", whereas, as any properly brought up chap knows, it should be "FORMidable".

As for usage, let's enjoy "to critique" - an ugly back-formation if ever there was one - long used in university committees! And if I ever hear "decimate" used to describe the destruction of more than 1/10th of anything ever again...

C'est la vie.

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:01 AM

How many times has anyone heard JEWELLRY pronounced correctly on the radio ? It seems to be accepted everywhere as JOOLEREY ! If Auntie Beeb lets standards slide there is NO Hope !

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 08:45 AM

Well, yes, that's what happens with a spoken language. Its pronunciation, accent and usage all constantly change over time in different ways, depending on the location, education and environment of the speaker(s) at the time. I'm not particularly enamoured of the example you give either, but then I'm quite amused by this as well: Brian Sewell.

It'll be interesting to see how future generations view the way we speak now - just as it's fascinating to hear people like Neville Chamberlain enunciating on his return from Munich (for example - no overt political comment intended, just an example of 1930s speech).

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 08:31 AM

Unfortunately, not many are "bovered" which is a shame. The Essex accent has been at risk from south east London (Estuary, I think it is called) since Victorian times.

Essex Record Office produced a CD and booklet which preserves some of the old Essex accent.

CD to preserve Essex Dialect

Subject: RE: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 07:36 AM

I thought you meant Victoooooooriaaaaah at first, but obviously not.

Subject: BS: Victoriaaaaaar
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 07:32 AM

At Victoria underground station last night we heard a young lady - sporting the most mini of mini skirts ever seen, say into her treasured mobile phone - "we're at Victoriaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar" which is my representation of Victoria in what has become the hideous Croydon accent.

So brother has become bruvaaaaaaaaaaar and on it goes. How on earth have they crucified English pronounciation like this I wonder?