BS: The reputations of birds

Subject: BS: The reputations of birds
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 07:56 AM

Do the reputations of birds affect how we think of them? Everyone loves the friendly robin (even though it is ferociously territorial), the little jenny wren, the sweet-sounding lark, thrush and blackbird and the wise owl. But what about the cruel, thieving magpie – and why is it a 'murder' of crows and an 'unkindness' of ravens?

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:41 AM

It's 'cos they're black - automatically bad!

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:47 AM

I like vultures and buzzards cuz they taste so good.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:50 AM

(By the way -- the raven is honored as the bringer of fire, among other reasons, by the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest. Perhaps we have a little bit of local prejudice here?)

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:54 AM

'poetic collective nouns particular to the type of bird'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_nouns/Birds

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: maeve
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM

While I delight in the bird folklore of the world's cultures, what I think about birds is based on my observations and research. I like 'em.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if the malific reputation of the corvus family derives from their opportunistic scavenging nature. Imagine seeing a flock of cawing crows perched in nearby trees, or hovering about over a bloody battlefield - waiting for the opportunity to descend and feed on the fresh meat of the dead and dying.. In Irish myth, the war Goddess Maeve is known as "Battle Crow" and she hovers in her totemic crow form, over those she has decided will die in battle.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:59 AM

I love the fact that they are dinosaurs. I like looking at all the little dinosaurs around. And I thought the celtic morrigan was a raven?

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:05 AM

Video demonstrating the intelligence of crows CLICK

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:06 AM

I like most, but I have my favs and one is the raven. Especially bog ravens... the ones who claim prime territoy in the "way back" bogs of Kent County, NB, CAN are huge.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:21 AM

The only birds I don't like are introduced species whose populations expand at the expense of native species. The fool who introduced the European starling to North America deserves to spent eternity tied to a stake while displaced native birds peck his eyes out.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:23 AM

"Imagine seeing a flock of cawing crows perched in nearby trees,"

They'd more likely be rooks. As the old saying goes - if you see a flock of crows, they're rooks; if you see a solitary rook, it's a crow.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:37 PM

I like Chickadees (tits to you, Liz)'cause they're cute and gulls 'cause they're doofy...but only from afar. I don't trust anything that poops and flies at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:43 PM

If you could fly too, you might feel differently about that.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:49 PM

The Chickadee is on the front page of the Canuck Hinterland Who's Who.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 04:05 PM

I was lying down looking at the sky
When a little bird pooped in my eye
But I'm a big boy
So I don't cry.
But I'm so glad that cows don't fly.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:19 PM

gnu - they've got a rotating gallery of images -- it took quite a few screen refreshes to get that chickadee for me!

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:08 PM

I love magpies and crows and ravens! Somewhere, was it Scandinavia, magpies are considered good luck?

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:25 PM

A sailor meets a pirate in a bar, and they take turns telling about their adventures on the seas. The sailor notes that the pirate has a peg-leg, a hook and an eye patch.

The sailor asks "So, how did you end up with the peg-leg?"

The pirate replies: "We were in a storm at sea, and I were swept overboard headed for Davy Jones' Locker. Just as me men were pullin' me out, a shark bit me leg off."

"Wow!" said the sailor. "What about the hook?"

The pirate went on, "We were boarding an enemy ship and were battling the other sailors with swords. One of the enemy cut me hand off."

"Incredible!" said the sailor. "And how did you get the eye patch?"

"Arrr. That were from a seagull dropping fell into me bloody eye," replied the pirate.

"You lost your eye to a seagull dropping?" the sailor asked incredulously.

"Shiver me timbers!" said the pirate. "It was me first day with the hook..."

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:39 PM

My Cairn terrier is having a great time with ravens these days. She knows that if there is a group of ravens gathered 'round, there is good reason to think that there is food involved. So she rushes them, making them lift off, and sniffs around to see what it might be. Then they do their part: they galumph up behind her and tweak her plumy tail. She turns and rushes them. They flip away and land a couple of feet away and it begins again.

They're completely friendly about it, it's a game, a game that my dog enjoys as much as they do.

I have seen my dog wag her tail at a lone raven as she passes by.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:11 AM

===Somewhere, was it Scandinavia, magpies are considered good luck===

Depends here on how many there are, Kat. Don't you have the superstition rime over there re magpies; "One for sorrow, Two for joy, Three for a girl And four for a boy". I have never BTW understood this final couplet. What it supposed to mean, can anyone enlighten me? But the 1 & 2 predictions are clear enough.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: GUEST,999--found on the 'net at
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:39 AM

Crow or Magpie Augry (the practice of foretelling the future based on the number of birds seen) has been around for centuries, and spawned many version of the "counting rhyme". These are a few of the ones I've collected. As you can see, there's quite a variety, but most follow the same themes.

The older ones and the European ones tend to be about magpies, while the newer ones and the North American ones tend to be about crows, suggesting that the subject switched from magpies to crows around the same time that people were crossing the atlantic.

Counting Rhyme (from The Folklore of Birds, by Laura C. Martin, 1993)

One for sorrow, two for mirth,
Three for a wedding, four for a birth,
Five for silver, six for gold,
Seven for a secret not to be told.
Eight for heaven, nine for hell,
And ten for the devil's own sel'.


Counting Crows (Emailed to me by a 'Net acquantance)

One for sorrow,
two for joy,
three for a girl,
for for a boy,
five for silver,
six for gold,
seven for a secret,
never to be told,
eight for a wish,
nine for a kiss,
ten for a time
of joyous bliss.


Magpie Rhyme (from Bird Brains, by Candace Savage, 1997. The Rhyme she quotes is from The Dictionary of Superstitions published by Oxford University Press in 1992)

One for sorrow,
two for mirth,
three for a wedding,
four for birth,
five for rich,
six for poor,
Seven for a witch,
I can tell you no more.


Counting Rhyme (another from an email acquaintance)

One crow sorrow,
Two crows mirth,
three, a wedding,
four, a birth,
five brings silver,
six takes wealth,
seven crows a secret,
More I can nae tell.


Counting Crows (again, from an email aquaintance)

One for sadness, two for mirth;
Three for marriage, four for birth;
Five for laughing, six for crying:
Seven for sickness, eight for dying;
Nine for silver, ten for gold;
Eleven a secret that will never be told.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:44 AM

From this site.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:50 AM

Many thanks, 999: fascinating. But i still don't understand the 3-girl 4-boy formulation — unless it were a pregnant woman or expecting couple seeing them. Anybody explain?

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:58 AM

IMO, it rhymes. Your guess at it is a good one. Whether it will be accepted as definitive--who knows? The rhyme changes from place to place it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Stu
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:22 AM

The druids used to use crow flight as a form of divination. Corvids are fascinating birds, and way more intelligent than often given credit for. Rooks have up to 240-ish separate vocalisations and communicate with each other regarding the best feeding sites. Magpies have been observed performing rituals around a dead magpie (I can't find the source for this at the moment, but was somewhere here.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:45 AM

"The druids used to use crow flight as a form of divination"

There's a fascinating bit about cranes and divination in Robert Graves' 'The White Goddess' and also about lapwings.

Ravens are supposed to belong to Hecate. And, of course Bran the Blessed, guardian of Britain, has the raven as his totem - hence the ravens at the Tower of London. Unfortunately, we don't get ravens as far east as where I live, but there are plenty of crows, rooks and magpies.

Subject: RE: BS: The reputations of birds
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:33 PM

I was just reading about crows, rooks and ravens. According to it, the 'carrion crow' (endemic only across the Atlantic?) is "larger than a rook but smaller than a raven".

Are rooks small? Or are your crows larger than ours?