BS: Film : Avatar

Subject: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:09 PM

I thought the basic storyline was a little trite. But the special effects and action were great. The art direction in general was quite innovative. Has anyone else seen it yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:26 PM

I'm not sure I'm up to another genocide movie, even if the special effects are great.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:04 PM

I heard Howie Movshovitz say it was the worst, most trite movie he'd ever seen, then another one on NPR, later, RAVED about it. I won't watch apocalyptic movies, either.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:08 PM

Roger Ebert raves about it too if that means anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:39 PM

n the new blockbuster Avatar, humans visit the habitable - and inhabited - alien moon called Pandora. Life-bearing moons like Pandora or the Star Wars forest moon of Endor are a staple of science fiction. With NASA's Kepler mission showing the potential to detect Earth-sized objects, habitable moons may soon become science fact. If we find them nearby, a new paper by Smithsonian astronomer Lisa Kaltenegger shows that the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) will be able to study their atmospheres and detect key gases like carbon dioxide, oxygen, and water vapor.

"If Pandora existed, we potentially could detect it and study its atmosphere in the next decade," said Lisa Kaltenegger of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA).
So far, planet searches have spotted hundreds of Jupiter-sized objects in a range of orbits. Gas giants, while easier to detect, could not serve as homes for life as we know it. However, scientists have speculated whether a rocky moon orbiting a gas giant could be life-friendly, if that planet orbited within the star's habitable zone (the region warm enough for liquid water to exist).

"All of the gas giant planets in our solar system have rocky and icy moons," said Kaltenegger. "That raises the possibility that alien Jupiters will also have moons. Some of those may be Earth-sized and able to hold onto an atmosphere."
Kepler looks for planets that cross in front of their host stars, which creates a mini-eclipse and dims the star by a small but detectable amount. Such a transit lasts only hours and requires exact alignment of star and planet along our line of sight. Kepler will examine thousands of stars to find a few with transiting worlds.

Once they have found an alien Jupiter, astronomers can look for orbiting moons, or exomoons. A moon's gravity would tug on the planet and either speed or slow its transit, depending on whether the moon leads or trails the planet. The resulting transit duration variations would indicate the moon's existence.
Once a moon is found, the next obvious question would be: Does it have an atmosphere? If it does, those gases will absorb a fraction of the star's light during the transit, leaving a tiny, telltale fingerprint to the atmosphere's composition.
The signal is strongest for large worlds with hot, puffy atmospheres, but an Earth-sized moon could be studied if conditions are just right. For example, the separation of moon and planet needs to be large enough that we could catch just the moon in transit, while its planet is off to one side of the star.

Kaltenegger calculated what conditions are best for examining the atmospheres of alien moons. She found that alpha Centauri A, the system featured in Avatar, would be an excellent target.

"Alpha Centauri A is a bright, nearby star very similar to our Sun, so it gives us a strong signal" Kaltenegger explained. "You would only need a handful of transits to find water, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and methane on an Earth-like moon such as Pandora."
"If the Avatar movie is right in its vision, we could characterize that moon with JWST in the near future," she added.

While alpha Centauri A offers tantalizing possibilities, small, dim, red dwarf stars are better targets in the hunt for habitable planets or moons. The habitable zone for a red dwarf is closer to the star, which increases the probability of a transit. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:48 AM

Amos,
Errrr...wow! That's deep.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 12:22 PM

As best I can tell, its more insurgency then genocide.

Carol want to see it because of the groundbreaking tech.
It will be after Christmas before we can go.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 01:35 PM

I saw it last night with a friend half my age who didn't like it either. What follows is a slightly franker version of what I posted to imdb. I don't think it has any plot spoilers (that would be impossible as the plot is a retread of the 'evil technos on innocent savages' theme), but I refer to peculiarities of the movie:

In some ways this movie is trying to be an adult version of Ferngully
The Last Rainforest. The part of the world inhabited by these
creatures, the 'moldy h icans' is like a director's wet dream of Eden,
only with attractively plant draped mountains that float (instead of bolting into
space). Meanwhile the inhabitants are a wide range of large or
stretched versions of creatures we are familiar with: Big big bugs or
flying reptiles.

It is a concept flick- man through technology transmits mind into
fabricated creature that can live among the intelligent kind of its
homeworld. The homeworld has something we (evil humans) want. Humans cannot live on
planet but we want a precious material which defies gravity, baldly
called unobtainium. The aliens are blue, and look (pick one) like
elongated supermodels (every one of them) or cat people with no fur or
whiskers. Either way you get wide faces and big yellow eyes right off
those 70s paintings on black velvet. I forgot to mention pouty lips.
Somewhere there must be a sociologists thesis on what are the elements
of face and body type that denote attractiveness while deforming other
characteristics. The one possibly somewhat original idea is that the
intelligent social aliens have tails, at the end of which are exposed
nerve fibers that can bond with significantly useful critters to ride,
such as a reptilian eyed large flyer, or other critters where the nerve
endings might come from other parts of their bodies like a tail to head
mind-meld.

I do not recall any of these sharp toothed creatures eating or any
significant blood flow from anything. Even the roots of the trees are
nerve endings according to the Sigourney Weaver character. Meanwhile,
there are no latrines, these natives apparently wander around the
vertical environment making nerve contact with wondrous beings but
don't need to eat, shit, raise children, set broken bones, sign
contracts, clear leafmold, or establish a government. They don't
apparently make music unless they are all arrayed in a large pattern
helping the roots save someone's life or convert them to alienhood.
It's like woodstock without the rain, the mud, or for that matter, the
music. The movie soundtrack was by James Horner who seemed to channel
tangerine dream at times, and John Williams at other times. So
sometimes the music was spacy, and other times it was starwars.

It goes on for 2 and a half hours and is excruciatingly unbelievable on
its own terms. More than the ten bucks, it's the 2 and a half hours
I'll never get back and the pained look I could feel on my face as the
bad guys were made to look really bad, driving bulldozers ten stories
high or trying to destroy an especially important part of the fiber
tree of life.

If you loved the self-righteous extermination of the environment to
make a point such as "On Dangerous Ground" where the good guys blow up
an arctic oil refinery in order to promote environmentalism, this film
may resonate with you.

Personally, I think putting the ten dollars to a meal with a lot of
fiber in it would have had more agreeable results with a better end
product.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Lox
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:30 PM

Amos,

Wouldn't there be a problem for survival on such a planet even if it did have the right atmosphere as a result of the orbit of the moon round the planet and the possibility of extended periods of time when the moon were shielded from the light of its star by ht eplanet it orbits ...

... not to mention, that here on earth, the angle of the poles means that we have hot summers and cold winters. A moon orbiting a planet would alternate between being much closer at one point in its orbit and significantly fyrther away and hidden from the star at another point.

Wouldn't this result in wildly fluctuating temperatures?

And finally, would a panet that size orbit close enough to a star for its moons to be warm enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Lox
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:36 PM

"Wouldn't there be a problem for survival on such a planet"

I mean such a moon ...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM

If there was water and air on our moon it would be close enough to the sun. Wouldn't it? The average distance from the sun would be the same as Earth's with a fluctuation of just half a million miles due to the orbiting of the earth. And the trees and natives could grow very very tall due to 1/6th gravity.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 05:01 PM

Avatar - "Dances With Smurfs"

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 07:20 PM

They should have made them look more like hamsters.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 11:15 AM

I saw it today - in 3D. It's certainly a treat for the eyes!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 12:03 PM

We saw it in 3D on an IMAX big screen. Pretty amazing, visually speaking. For an action film, it was long enough to develop the story a bit. But, you're right, they couldn't fit all the details in, and the good guys and bad guys were pretty black and white. Entertaining, but I didn't find myself emotionally involved (something I can be sucked into pretty easily).

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:07 PM

We saw it a couple of days ago. JtS and my son both think it may be the best movie they've ever seen. My son has a fine arts degree in film. I loved it also. I don't care about whether or not it was believable. I don't care whether or not it includes all of the details of the lives of the creatures. I see it as a fantasy rather than science fiction, and it's got enough of what it needs to work in that genre. It was also the first movie I've ever seen in which I didn't mind the fighting at all. And genocide is averted in this movie, so it's not a genocide story. For those who tend to root for the indigenes (like me), it's a very satisfying movie. And very beautiful to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:00 PM

It seems to have got geeks, nerds and techno-types frothing with excitement, which is usually a bad sign for me. Å friend who has seen it gave it 10 out of 10 for the visual effects and 0 out of 10 for acting and plot. On balance, I think I'll give it a miss.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Becca72
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:27 PM

I want to see it but I'm concerned about going...I definitely can't see it in 3D or IMAX because I get motion sickness VERY easily and I'm concerned it will cause a migraine. Anyone with similar issues who can give a report?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:39 PM

I get motion sickness and migraines very easily from certain visual stimuli, and this 3D technology didn't bother me at all. I was concerned that it would. I didn't see it in IMAX, though. I did get motion sickness from a movie I saw in IMAX once, when it looked like I was in a plane coming in for a landing. We're thinking about going to see it at the IMAX in Myrtle Beach at some point, so I if we do, I'll find out if it gives me motion sickness.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:43 PM

I thought that the acting was quite good, though much of the body language was computer generated and had no problem at all with the plot.

There was no genocide even attempted or considered. There were two battles over two specific small sectors of the planet.

It is a sci-fi movie, and not the most "realistic" but it is exceedingly well made and where Cameron chose to be unrealistic, it was to further the visual spectacle, which was beyond groundbreaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Becca72
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, Carol!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:51 PM

Genocide was implied. A lot of things were hinted at, there were a lot of other films suggested by various aspects of the plot, everything from Harry Potter to Dances With Wolves and more than a passing nod to Heart of Darkness.

A lot of people will be able to find a lot to talk about in that film. I went last week, and because I missed the first few minutes (people should decide what film they want to see BEFORE they're standing in a big gob of people at the ticket window) I hung around and went back in to watch the beginning. And stayed.

Visually this film is astonishing. I heard an interview with Cameron (Fresh Air, I think) and he said the software and technology are open for other filmmakers to use and they had others come in and watch. They want to see this move forward. It was the most visually stunning film I've ever seen. I suspect if the story had been too convoluted, it would have been too difficult to follow because there was simply so much to look at and think about as far as the world they created and how it all looked.

In a Darwinian sense, there is an evolutionary presence in the film, as you see the elongated characteristics and the sensor organs on many creatures, suggesting the same kind of evolution as on earth (where most creatures are bilateral, two eyes, ears, one mouth, two lungs, pairs of legs, etc. They had to be recognizable to the humans watching to bring engagement to the story. And the seeds of the sacred tree, looking like jelly fish (with no brain, no motive other than existence here on earth, and there, the "purest" form they recognized) acting the role that butterflies might in a film set in a wild place on Earth.

The story was a very respectable mystery, with all of the players introduced along the way, including some red herrings, and the end made sense because of those red herrings. Bad guys who weren't really bad guys, they were predators in the system who the newcomer wanted to obliterate but the locals knew were an important part of the system (Aldo Leopold's "Thinking Like a Mountain" essay comes to mind).

The complaints about the American Indian aspect is a typical American response--this could represent indigenous people anywhere on the planet, not just here in the U.S. or North America. The complaint that the "hero" is not from that planet (he's the fantasy equivalent of a halfblood), that he is more like the Costner character from "Dances With Wolves" is bound to come up. But you don't have to look far to see that codes were being cracked in both directions, and that narrative stance of the main character was as marginal a protagonist as most viewers will have identified with in a long time.

Having muddied the waters a bit, I hope people will go with minds open and enjoy the spectacle of it, the art of it, and the story at whatever level makes you comfortable. It is a remarkable turning point in the business and art of film making. You might want to be able to look back later and tell your kids that you were there.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 07:16 PM

A couple of days after seeing Avatar I was in an exercise room with different vids playing on the wall and one of them was Wizard of Oz. I couldn't help but make the comparison between the technology change in 70 years versus the need of a good story, good acting, good emoters. I thought Wizard had it all over Avatar. Even in the world of effects the imagination was greater. The term 'winged monkeys' has made it into common parlance and I doubt me that flying lizards will have the same cachet in even one year. As for the storyline, Wizard has one. Avatar's bad guys good guys was a setup akin to Mighty Ducks. The movie bludgeons one into rooting for the gentle blue people and sets us up to expect them to be decimated by a technological juggernaut except somehow we know there will be a last second comepuppance where the Indians are able to defeat the cavalry.

As my right wing co-workers came in this morning from seeing the film, I was intrigued that many of them liked it as a movie. I teased them a bit, with "You know that was an extreme left wing tree-hugger plot and you were paying Hollywood elitists who underwrite Obama and the whole left wing conspriacy, including gun control, don't you?"

Blinking response. "It was a movie!"

Two nights ago I got to see Dark Knight on an HD system, and I thought it had more visual impact than Avatar. Its plot was less understandable because of the frequent cuts, but the character of the Joker dominated and had way more impact than any character of Avatar.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 07:46 PM

The Wizard of Oz, Batman, and Heart of Darkness. We're dealing with wildly different audiences and interpretations with these three.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: open mike
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 03:58 AM

i love the name unobtainium--

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Darowyn
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 04:29 AM

Bike and car racers have used 'unobtanium' for many years to describe the exotic materials used in the works machinery, and to which the privateer competitors have no access.
I think I first read it in "Cycle" magazine in the early 1970s.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 12:51 PM

My own opinion is that trying to compare other movies with Avatar is like trying to compare different kinds of fruit with a truffle. They're too different to evaluate in comparison with one another. At least I wouldn't try it myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Abdul the Bul Bul on laptop
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 01:43 PM

Saw it last night and thought it was a magnificent film. It reminded me of going to see Starwars the first time and being stunned by the effects. I've not seen a 3D movie before and can only say that this has to be the 'next step' in movies. What a lot of twaddle up in the thread. It's a movie, it's a story. It's goodies and baddies, of course we've seen it before. Wonderful stuff, can't wait to see it again.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 05:19 PM

If you're satisfied with twaddle, Abdul by all means see it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

Well, maybe I'll give it a try and report back.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:47 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:12 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

There are people whose salaries depend on being able to make alien babes hot. It dates from before Star Trek, but ST I made it so frickin' obvious that on a more recent Stargate episode one of the characters said to another "You went all Captain Kirk on her, didn't you?" I hit the floor laughing.

On the 'hot' male alien side we've even got a song reference, courtesy of Julie Brown: "Earth Girls Are Easy", which song led to a movie with Jeff Goldblum and some other guy who was willing to be painted - blue?

And THAT flick was more watchable than Avatar!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:21 PM

Robomatic: I think you must have forgotten to put on your 3D glasses!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:58 PM

sigourney weaver looks pretty good also

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

Recommended by eleven-year-old grandson. Don't go to the flicks, but I am signed up for a copy when it is released on DVD.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

Q: I recommend the reverse. If you're going to see it, see it in 3D. That is the experience that generates the raves. If you see it on a small screen, even if HD, and if you care about story at all, you will not get through it, and you'll be left with an expensive beer coaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:54 PM

3D's definitely better.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:00 PM

3D is amazing, with this film. Every so often I would tip the glasses down to see what it looks like. I imagine the film on a regular high definition or Blu-ray delivery will be attractive, but 3D isn't just a gimmick, it really is an important part of the delivery.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:30 PM

I saw it in 3D and I highly recommend it. The story line is kind of like "Dances With Wolves" had sex with "The Last Samurai" and this is the offspring. But it was done well, and the effects are absolutely to die for. I went expecting to find a glorified cartoon, and found myself buying into it completely. I agree completely with Maggie, the 3D was beyond any rendition I have seen so far, and very important to the delivery. You actually felt the sensations of flying during those sequences. While I might not give the screenplay a 10, it certainly was very good and easy to buy into. Overall I agree that this is one you should spend some shekels on and see in the theater.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:38 PM

Conversely, I understand someone will be selling 3D TVs in the not too distant future, so if someone is totally averse to seeing a movie in the theater and has some money to burn, that might be an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 10:01 PM

How might this look on a standard home TV DVD as secured from Netflix?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 12:16 AM

It will still be an interesting movie, but if you're watching it on a regular screen it will be so small that you'll miss most of the effects. If you can get out to a theater now to see it in 3D I think you'll find it well worth the effort.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 05:21 AM

I thought it was excellent. It is basically an anti-war of aggression movie. just what young people today need to see. and very artistically done.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

This film has been very, very well marketed .... makes one like you absolutely have to go see it ... from the trailer I watched it seems the effects appear to be like any out of a virtual computer game ... especially those avatars and natives... typical virtual eyes, Geeesh .... I keep hearing the "best movie ever" ... that statement in itself makes me want to shy away from it ... especially dropping big $money$ to go see it.

Remember the last "best movie ever", the Titanic (also by J. Cameron) ... were you were a nobody unless you went see it .... well, 13 years or so later it pretty well would not be considered by many to have been the "best movie" ever.

Oh well ... guess I'm a bit of grump to fall for all these mass frenzied cinema attractions. I guess I expect something else out of a movie.

I should also add the people I know who were all caught up in the 'best movie ever' hype warned me not to go see Sherlock Holmes. Well, me and the missus went to see it .... I enjoyed it immensley, no computer generated funny looking beings with those dreadful big pie eyes blinking away ... I certainly would not consider it the best movie ever ... but I didn't feel like I was ripped off on the admission fees and the popcorn.

well ... that was my 2 cents worth ... all I got left (until payday) after spending my $money$ at the cinema.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:23 AM

No amount of reading reviews or watching 2D trailers will prepare you for the 3D experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:28 AM

I'm not really interested a 3D experience.

Experiencing life is better.

biLL :)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:00 PM

Different strokes, 6, but you won't really be able to say for sure whether or not you like it if you haven't seen it.


One of the things I liked about the story is that although it has an anti-war of aggression message, it doesn't vilify warriors and people with a warrior mindset. It just gives them a different kind of possible outlet for their warrior nature; one that I happen to agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:23 PM

Number 6: I fear that you are a prisoner of your own lack of vision.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Good one Tunesmith. :)

I'll wait for about year and then it will be in the $3.00 DVD bucket at the local Superstore ... I'll purchase it. I still saved my red and blue cellophane viewer that I got when I saw the movie 13 Ghosts many years ago when I was a kid. This old viewer will allow me to experience Avatar in 3D.

CarolC .... I agree about the 'different strokes' ... just expressing my stubborn smart ass opinions here. About the anti-war message in the movie ... all I can say is that there is not enough of these messages in movies.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 03:53 PM

I paid $7 for the matinée I went to. It wasn't any more than the other films showing.

This film also didn't waste a lot of time with jealously. There is a scenario where that could be a time-waster, but that seems to be something they didn't build into this new culture.