Lyr ADD: The Boys of Barr na Sraide

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: Rog Peek
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:06 AM

Sorry, the "h" was unintentional.

Rog

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: Gabriel
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 07:56 AM

The precise text given in the published work of Sigerson Clifford differs from the usual lyrics. Unsurprisingly they have mutated over the years. But some of the Clifford original touches are very interesting. Amongst many other changes, the place names which are in their anglicised form in the original have become Irish and the original name of one of the 'boys', 'Dawly', has become 'Daly'. Most interestingly Clifford referred to the bird as 'wran' rather than 'wren'. Whilst the change from 'wran' to 'wren' is entirely understandable, some of the other changes aren't. I'm about to learn the song and am going to try the original Clifford words.
The published text reads:

THE BOYS OF BARR NA SRAIDE

O the town it climbs the mountain and looks upon the sea,
At sleeping time or waking time, 'tis there I long to be,
To walk again that kindly street, the place I grew a man,
And the Boys of Barr na Sraide went hunting for the wran.

With cudgels stout we roamed about to hunt the droileen
We looked for birds in every furze from Letter to Dooneen:
We danced for joy beneath the sky, life held no print or plan
And we Boys in Barr na Sraide, hunting for the wran.

And when the hills were bleeding and the rifles were aflame,
To 'the rebel homes of Kerry the Saxon stranger came,
But the men who dared the Auxies and fought the Black and Tan
Were the Boys of Barr na Sraide hunting for the wran.

And here's a toast to them tonight, the lads who laughed with me,
By the groves of Carhan river or the slope of Beenatee
John Dawly and Batt Andy, and the Sheehans Con and Dan,
And the Boys of Barr na Sraide who hunted for the wran.

And now they toil in foreign soil, where they have gone their way
Deep in the heart of London or over in Broadway,
And I am left to sing their deeds, and praise them while I can
Those Boys of Barr na Sraide who hunted for the wran.

When the wheel of life runs down and peace come over me,
O lay me down in that old town between the hills and sea,
I'll take my sleep in those green fields the place my life began,
Where the Boys of Barr na Sraide went hunting for the wran.

Source: Sigerson Clifford. Ballads of a Bogman. p84-85. Mercier Press, Cork: 1986.
ISBN 1 85635010 X

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: Gabriel
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 08:35 AM

The last line of the final verse should read And when the wheel of life runs down and peace comes over me'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 09:49 AM

If you search on Google Maps for Barr na Sraide you'll find it in Cahersiveen; it looks distinctly chi-chi nowadays with nice big comfortable houses along the road - what a different country Ireland has become since those hungry days.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,Wayne 27
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 04:52 PM

This is the original listing from Ballads of a bogman 1955.
O, Drink your porter, Tinker Man
The Ballad of a Tinkers son.
The Winkle Woman
The Ballad of a Tinkers wife
I am Kerry
The Tinkers Wake
The Fiddler
The Ballad of a Tinkers Daughter
The tale of the Tinker man
The Boy remembers his Father
Brother Mick
Gubby Donovans Pig
The Circus
The Ballad of Lascar Rock
Country Pub
The Races.

In the later editions of this book The Boys of Barr na Sraide appears.
Why was it not in the original 1955 edition?
I received this listing from Eamon Browne of Kerry County Library in 2004.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 05:25 AM

The owner of the 'Sibin' pub, outside of Baltimore, West Cork was Seanie Daly- this was a song he sang regularly at the Sunday evening singing sessions about 30 years ago.
Regarding Irish pronunciation and the ' John Dawly' in the lyrics given above, Daly was normally pronounced Dawly or Darly by the people of the Mizen area.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 01:59 PM

in my experience and i have livd on the mizen for 30 years Daly is pronounced daly,
ina daly is daly, the td her relative jim daly is daly so have all the other dalys i know of in the mizen peninusula.
yes i played at that pub too, and the land lady told me her name was pronounced daly.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 02:12 PM

With the greatest respect to Jim Bainbridge, the pub called j daly in ballydehob is called Dalys by everyone.
I would appreciate it if when Jim replies he does not reiterate any more personal abuse in my direction as he did once before calling me a pain in the arse
For the sake of accuracy, daly is not normally pronounced anything but daly in ballydehob which is on the mizen peninsula, her relative jim daly is also pronounced daly not darley or dawley

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 20 - 04:43 PM

Of course in this country we have The Cutty Wren..
You can't help but wonder what that poor little bird did to raise such ire.

I think I am on the wren's side.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: RunrigFan
Date: 24 Aug 20 - 06:43 PM

Danu

Oh the town it climbs the mountain and looks upon the sea,
In sleeping time or waking time ‘tis there I long to be,
To walk again those kindly streets, the place my life began,
And the boys of Barr na Sráide went hunting for the wran.
With cudgels stout we roamed about to hunt the dreoilín.
We searched for birds in every furze from Letter to Dooneen.
We danced for joy beneath the sky; life held no print or plan And the boys of Barr na Sráide went hunting for the wran.
And when the hills were bleeding and the rifles were aflame
To the rebel homes of Kerry the Saxon strangers came
But the men who fought the Auxies and who beat the Black and Tans Were the boys in Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wran.
So here’s a health to them tonight, those lads who laughed with me
By the groves of Carhan River or the slopes of Beenatee John Dawley and Batt Andy and the Sheehans Con and Dan
And the boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wran.
But now they toil on foreign soil where they have gone their way
Deep in the heart of London town or over in Broadway
And I am left to sing their deeds and to praise them while I can
Those boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wran
And when the wheel of life runs down and when peace comes over me
Oh lay me down in that old town between the hills and sea
I’ll take my sleep in those green fields the place my life began
Where the boys of Barr na Sráide went hunting for the wran.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: RunrigFan
Date: 24 Aug 20 - 06:44 PM

Christy Moore

Boys Of Barr Na Sráide

Author: Sigerson Clifford

*Dreólín is the Irish Gaelic word for wren.

Ivy Ruler

Oh, the town, it climbs the mountains and looks upon the sea
At sleeping time or waking time, it’s there I’d like to be.
To walk again those kindly streets, the place where life began,
With the Boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wren.

With cudgels stout they roamed about to hunt for the dreólín*
We searched for birds in every furze from Litir to Dooneen.
We danced for joy beneath the sky, life held no print nor plan
When the Boys of Barr na Sráide went hunting for the wren.

And when the hills were bleedin’ and the rifles were aflame
To the rebel homes of Kerry the Saxon strangers came,
But the men who dared the Auxies and fought the Black-and-Tan
Were the Boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wren.

But now they toil in foreign soil where they have made their way
Deep in the heart of London or over on Broadway,
And I am left to sing their deeds and praise them while I can
Those Boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wren.

And here’s a health to them tonight wherever they may be.
By the groves of Carham river or the slope of Bean ‘a Tí
John Daly and Batt Andy and the Sheehans, Con and Dan,
And the Boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wren.

When the wheel of life runs out and peace come over me
Just take me back to that old town between the hills and sea.
I’ll take my rest in those green fields, the place where life began,,
With those Boys of Barr na Sráide who hunted for the wren.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 06:20 AM

Sandman may be right about pronunciation of Daly in some areas-it is the more common one, and I may have been wrong to generalise about this in the Mizen, although I did live there for about 12 years & sometimes came across the 'Dawley' form.

The earlier discussion strayed to a query about one surname in this lovely song - that name being Dawley.

Seanie Daly of the Sibin in Baltimore sang this song & he was a Kerryman and pronounced his name Dawley, whater his widow Maureen did- that was her choice!

Our neighbour in Dunbeacon often spoke to us of a nearby farm belonging to one Mary Daly (pron. Dawley).

My response was simply to try & give a little background which might help understand why Daly & Dawly might be the same in the oral tradition.

Sandman appears to be trying to revive a discussion/argument we had some time ago. I have not changed my opinion of Sandman, and would ask him yo please accept that I was trying to add some information to the thread, so could he please go and argue with someone else

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 10:59 AM

I am going to stick to facts, everyone i have met on the mizen penisula who was called Daly pronunced it Daly, as jackie daly pronounces it.[about four or five]
It is not about arguing for the sake of it as Jim seems to be under the impression.it is about being factually accurate,it is difficult enough for uk people to pronounce irish names correctly o mahony is a case in point, whooley is another which has at least two alternatives. coughlan is also prponounced differently in cork city, to in ballydehob.
as someone who is interested in dialects and accents i am fascinated by this and believe it important to try and be accurate
For the record i have twice booked jim at my festival. he has always been paid his agreed fee.
I also passed on his details to an organiser who wanted to book him
.[Hello Dick

Thanks for replying on the Mudcat link.
Ours is a monthly concert club in South Lincolnshire and Jim is somebody who we would like to ask, at some point, to guest for us. A contact number, or address, would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Alan Wood   pp Traditional Music & Song at The Barn in Baston ]


however , why should i bother in future, you put a lot of work in to organising events give people work, pass on info so they can gig and you get this old squit

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 05:04 AM

Dick- please stop this. I have tried to add to the discussion about the song. The last time we had any mudcat contact, you told me to feck off.

You have stated your case- I accept you have a point of view, but I have one too, and think it is a demonstration of serious arrogance as a foreigner in the country to set yourself up as an expert on Irish pronunciation as well as its music- both will thrive without your assistance.
I am not interested in your entrepreneurship, nor the 'gigs' you value so much- I acknowledge your booking me twice at your festival, but told you I did not want to come again & you seemed to find this difficult to accept!
I have never heard of Alan Wood, nor am I in the market for your 'gigs' for some years!

Now if you have anything else about the song in the title thread, please add it, otherwise DROP IT!

Subject: RE: Lyr ReThe Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 07:54 AM

some clarification,
I organise a festival, that does not make me an entrepreneur any more than any folk club organiser, any money that is made goes in to a bank account and kept for the next year, you are welcome to come down to my home and examine the account, in 8 years there is a surplus of 2 grand it takes approx 4.5 grand to run, the benefit is to the local community.
I have paid you your agreed fee and passed on your details to the organiser of a concert club in South Lincolnshire.
the above song The Boys of Barr na Sraide is a modern composotion, how it is sung is to some extent up to the writer
however there were words that were used and which i have recited and sung whilst doing the wren and some info on the custom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeTsyueyGuo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 11:08 AM

and your point is?- I repeat DROP IT (thats being polite)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 11:16 AM

Anybody notice how people who try to fight with folks (ie "troll") get booted out of Mudcat? Weird, eh?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 01:16 PM

where are you getting all of this Sandman. I have done your festival, been paid OK- I have no reason to doubt your honesty and HAVE NEVER IMPLIED THAT- what goes on in your head I do not know -the word entrepreneur does not mean dishonest- consult your dictionary.

We disagree about a lot of things but I entered this thread ONLY to add what I thought might be a helpful point about something raised in the thread- NOT to argue with you- I stand by the point which provoked all this bile from yourself.

I now repeat- PLEASE stop this- it is irrelevant to the thread and very boring to me and everybody else

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 01:43 PM

Was In Fact Written By My Grandfather Dan Courtney of Caherciveen Co Kerry, PERHAPS MODS SHOULD CREDIT THIS IN THREAD TITLE

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 02:13 PM

sorry the above was a quote
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,Caoimhin O Curnain - PM
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:55 AM

It is widely accepted down here in South Kerry that Dan Courtney living 8 miles south of Cahirciveen composed this song. the last verse was changed , Dan originally wrote
And when i take my long last sleep and death shall come to me
then lay me down by that old town beneath the hills and sea
Ill take my sleep in those green fields where first my life began
where the Boys of barr na Sraide went hunting for the wren.

A new book called Songs of Iveragh has just been published , a no of Dans other songs have now been published. www.binneas.com
Dan Courtney / Donal O Curnain ( 1888 - 1963)
quote
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,Cornelius Sullivan - PM
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:28 AM

Boys of Barr Na Sraide....was written by my Grandfather Dan o curran (courtney) from Maulin Caherciveen

you can ask anyone from Waterville/ Dromid area they all know who wrote the song originally

its sad to see Clifford getting all the praise for something he didnt do

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 03:40 PM

what a wonderful song

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 06:12 PM

Fascinating, in some ways it is backward looking but it touches on the themes of forced emigration, why were people forced to emigrate and work in foreign fields. iperhaps a pertinent question imo, beautiful tune.the song does not over romanticise the past.Poverty. lack of jobs , the reasonwhy they all had to work abroad. whose fault was that?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: mg
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 12:32 AM

i am trying to figure out how else to say o'mahoney...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 01:31 AM

it is usually pronounced o marny , but a lot of uk people mstakenly say o ma honey to rhyme with phoney

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 03:13 AM



The answer to the question is fairly simple. The song makes references to "the Auxies" and "the Black and Tans" so that puts it in the period after 1921 and the end of the Anglo-Irish War. What followed was a civil war in Ireland between the "Free Staters" [The Government of Ireland at the time] and the IRA. When it became obvious that the Government was going to win this civil war, a campaign of wanton destruction was embarked upon by the IRA that seriously hampered the ability of the economy of the Irish Free State to grow. One of those who actively encouraged the IRA in their fight was one Eamon de Valera and later when he came to power in Ireland, his attitude towards the British and trade with the British held the country back even further. Net result of this Dick, was that there was no work to be had in Ireland, so the labour force went to where the work was.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 03:55 AM

The modertors have threatened me sevral times with removal from this forum, so I will not be drawn in to discussion, but let others answer your comment

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: mg
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 12:41 AM

i am in usa and have never heard anything but o ma hone ee.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Boys of Barr na Sraide
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 02:06 AM

well , perhaps you should be aware of how irish people pronounce it ,it is an irish name.