BS: Remote Start for vehicles

Subject: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:32 PM

Why does the intsaller need BOTH (actually ALL, if you have more than two) keys to install a remote start?

I have a Ford, and there is a "chip" in each keys. So what? if the chips in all the keys are programmed the same, what's the diff? The key isn't in the ignition when I use the remote.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:33 PM

Dunno, could it be that he needs to modify the keys to work with the starter?

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: open mike
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:14 PM

and you better hope it's not in gear, either!!
I have seen these things...an electronic device
that allows you to start the car from inside the
house..it could be warm (or cool in summer) by
the time you get in it if you plan it right...

heater, a.c., etc. also the engine could be warmed
up and ready to drive...this could be especially
usefull in cold climates, eh, gnu?

maybe it is a safety deal so you must have the key
adn cannot run away with the car or hi-ja

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:18 PM

Have this, LOVE it, plus our guys added an MP3 patch cord.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: open mike
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:24 PM

hi-jack it unless you are the one with the keys...

do you still need the keys to get in it even if
it has been automatically started..?

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 12:11 AM

Details of the chipped keys aren't easily available; but it wuould be expected that each key should include an identifier for the vehicle for which it is to work and an additional ID that indicates the specific key being used. Both codes, vehicle+key, (or an entire code specific to a single key and registered in vehicle memory) must be fed to the starting circuit in order for the car to start.

It is not easily confirmable; but it appears that it is NOT necessary that all the keys that work in a specific vehicle have the same code. You don't "duplicate" a chipped key. You get a new one and add the code for the new key to the vehicle's memory.

Quite probably, each "authorized key number" is stored in ROM in the vehicle starting circuit.

With the systems used, it appears that if one key is lost, starting using that key can be disabled without preventing the remaining key(s) from working.(?)

From the security standpoint, it would be ideal if one of the keys must be "close enough to read" for the remote-start device to work, since "having the key" is the only way the car knows that an authorized operator is the one using the starter. This requirement might exist without being noted in the instructions, but would allow you to disable the remote starter by wrapping the key in aluminum foil (or by sticking it in your ear under your hat). You should be easily able to check whether this applies to your remote starter.

As an alternative, some remote starters allow "anyone" to start the engine, but a "real key" must be inserted before the vehicle can drive away. (Most such vehicles claim that the vehicle will shut down after a short distance if "hot-wired" to start.) This method may mean that the starter device needs to know when a real key has been inserted(?) in order to "transfer" control to the vehicle, in which case the starter unit might need to know all "good key" numbers.

If the remote start device simply supplies the key code, then anyone who picks up the device can start the car. For most/many "chipped keys," any locksmith can cut the mechanical key pattern, and the "cut key" will open the doors, with or without a chip; but the chip (or at least its ID) is required to start (and run) the vehicle.

As with most newer automotive stuff, the driver is assumed to be too stupid to understand how anything works, so any useful information is withheld and available only to dealers (or to adept industiral spies who formerly worked for dealers before going to work for even better pay at the chop shops). Even Microsoft has begun to apply this philosiphy ("the user is stupid"), although one wonders why they chose to copy the auto industry as a profit model.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:30 AM

Because he does!

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:08 AM

If we have remote keys for our vehicles, why can't we have one for our houses?

Many's the time I've been struggling up the path with shopping and stuff, only to have to drop it all to fumble about with the keys... a remote key sensor would make life so much easier as I could have the door unlocked and ready to open as I come up the path. Why don't we have it?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:24 AM

Hi, Liz-
Googling Keyless house entry will fulfill your every desire.

I'll be glad to install one for you - just pay transportation (and lodging) for me and my tools.....


-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:46 AM

Only trouble is, if you ever need another key, it's a lot more expensive and inconvenient to get one.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 10:14 AM

The remote starter has to be trained to accept only the keys for the particular vehicle. You must have two keys to train the remote starter. Security.

Now, that is for a Ford with a "chip" key.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 10:48 AM

Thanks Joe, but I'm afraid that isn't all I desire.. but if I could afford to fly you and your tool over here, that might be a different matter!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 11:17 AM

LTS -

Put an electric garage door opener on one of your entry doors. For a very few bucks you can get a "keypad" that allows you to program in a "PIN" number, usually 4-digits, that will open the garage door for you and turn on the light. You can program changes to the PIN number yourself, usually just by popping out the backup battery to clear the memory and punching in a new number.

Alternatively, the opener will come with "remote" openers so that you can open the door (and turn on the lights) before you leave your vehicle, and new openers can be "coded" (by you) quite simply, or a lost remote can be "cleared" so it will no longer work.

Of course, if you have to build a garage to have a place to put the opener it might get a little more expensive, but ....

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 11:22 AM

but if the hands are to full to manage keys how are you going to work a remote?

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 11:24 AM

I've looked into a remote starter but was told by a couple of garages that because I have a manual transmission the only place in my area that can install one is called "Dr. Stereo". I just don't trust stereo guys with the transmission of my vehicle...

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:21 PM

manitas -

The remote should be in your vehicle, and you shouldn't be driving with your hands too full to work the remote since having your hands full while driving makes it difficult to tune the radio while texting - or doing all those other things necessary to typical commuting.

It may be noted that some do gather their packages before getting out of their vehicle, but scant consideration of the task at hand would indicate it is more efficient to stop (park) the vehicle, operate the remote to open the door, exit the vehicle, then gather up your parcels and get a secure grip on them before proceding through the open door.

If necessary, those who have trouble walking and chewing simultaneously might insert the additional step of depositing their chewing gum on the back of the outside rear-view mirror before gathering their packages.

Of course a slightly different analysis of most efficient procedure would be required if using a keypad (which was the first suggestion) but one of the neighborhood kids can probably help with that.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:42 PM

The remote start is used to start the vehicle from a distance so that it will be warmed up when you are done your tea or when you get off work or....

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:55 PM

-30C at night for weeks is common here.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:09 PM

Our local prognosticators are quite excited that the predicted low of about -5F (-20C) tonight will be the first actual sub-zero (F) reading since about 1985 or so. We've had lower temps nearby on a regular basis, but get enough "industrial heat" to keep extremes more moderate in the big city.

For some time, it was illegal here to leave a vehicle running and unoccupied, since it was concidered to be "facilitating a theft;" but apparently enough people got smart enough to get a spare key so they could lock up during warm up that the ordinance was dropped recently. They still have to repeat warnings about warming up the vehicle inside a closed garage, etc, since some of our people seem inclined to warm up before wake up and don't think too clearly in cold weather (or something like that).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:12 AM

Our Toyota will not accept a recut key, because there are identifiers in the key itself, which must be in the ignition, before the car will start. The remote unlocker-fob is separate.
That system would have to be bypassed to do a remote start, because the key isn't in the ignition. Maybe something to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 12:40 PM

My experience with adding a remote starter a 2001 Pontiac Montana minivan which I assume is typical:

There has to be a key with a "chip" in the ignition before it will start.

I had to get a module that gets hidden under the dash with a wire loop extendsd to and wrapped around the ignition switch.

An extra working key with a chip goes inside the module and it transmits the signal from the chip to the ignition system as if a key was in the ignition switch.

This means you do not have a spare key anymore but you can buy them inexpensively on EBay and elsewhere like $15 or less vs $75 at a dealer. You can get them cut to match you existing key at Home depot for a buck.

Then you have to follow a routine found either online or in your owners manual to program the chip in the new key using your original working key.

The chip is a programmable transponder that receives a signal and then transmits a signal back with a code which is unique to your car. This programming can be done using an existing working key, Sometimes you need to insert BOTH working keys before you can program the third one.

I hope I haven't repeated anything already posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:56 PM

I forgot to say how damned nice a remote starter is for a school teacher at 6 AM on a frigid, snowy, icy morning like this morning was.

It is well worth the headaches.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 12:33 AM

I have heard quite a few reports of electronic problems created by the installation of one of these devices by aftermarket providers.

Subject: RE: BS: Remote Start for vehicles
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 08:20 PM

"The remote should be in your vehicle" - but "...struggling up the path with shopping and stuff" rather suggests that Liz might not be driving a vehicle at the time.

Walking is not a totally forgotten practice in some parts of the world.