BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists

Subject: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 08:50 AM

From my reading of the postings by my fellow Mudcatters. I have concluded their politicial affiliations are predominantly, as per the title of this thread.

Discuss

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:10 AM

Discussting! ;-) (sic)

I keep being told I'm a liberal lol

oh well, not the first time I learned today not to believe everything your read on the www.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:35 AM

Any surviving US socialists are deemed Democrats, whether they like it or not. And many UK folkies support the Labour Party, which is hardly a bastion of socialism.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:37 AM

When I was in America, I was a member of the DSA. The Democratic party was too far to the right for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:51 AM

I am an anar chIst. Don't know what I want... but I know how to get it.

I wanna be anarchy!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:55 AM

Well, maybe - but I think it may be than more that. Those whose interest in folk derive from the music and spirit of the protest movements of the early and mid-twentieth are more liberal than otherwise and move toward the Democratic Party. {For the sake of forestalling thread drift, I'm using the American dictionary definition of liberalism here, not the Rush Limbaugh/Glen Beck one nor that used in the UK.} Given the two available options (and the US is a two-party nation, regardless of the existence of minor third parties), that is the only place they are comfortable. Many are only nominal party members, if they belong at all, and will insist that they "vote for the person, not the party". In that sense, you are entirely correct.

There is another mainstream musical movement in the US that has its general origins in the Appalachian Mountain country, and that is country-western and its stepchild country. Or maybe it's the other way around - arguments can be made either way. Is country folk? Define folk...or better yet, don't. The adherents of this movement can, with exceptions, be found firmly on the right. Of course, they would uniformly sneer at the idea that they are "folkies".

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 10:00 AM

Another thought. Why is liberal a dirty word in the US, but almost the reverse here.
I do mean liberal, and not Liberal.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM

liberal ['lIbErEl or 'lIbrEl] adjective
    1             relating to or having social and political views that favour progress and reform

    2             relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom

    3             giving and generous in temperament or behaviour

    4             tolerant of other people

    5             abundant; lavish
            a liberal helping of cream

    6             not strict; free
            a liberal translation

    7             of or relating to an education that aims to develop general cultural interests and intellectual ability

    noun
    8             a person who has liberal ideas or opinions

            [C14: from Latin liberalis of freedom, from liber free]
        *liberally adverb
        *liberalness noun

Hradly something to feel ashamed about either being or being called it as an insult is it?


As for Folk music vs Country & Western. One quote always jumps out at me...

... in the New York Times newspaper, 7th July 1971, Louis Armstrong is quoted as saying "All music is folk music, I ain't never heard no horse sing a song." Some hate it. Some love it. The reasons? See here. It could almost be a mantra

:-)

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: GUEST,tealeaf
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 10:40 AM

Dont burn the Flag, lets burn the bush

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 05:52 PM

In America, if you're a socialist, and you don't want to be totally disfranchised, you hold your nose and vote for the Democrat.

However, we do have one socialist in the Senate: Bernie Sanders.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Royston
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 07:06 PM

I am a socialist, there are no mainstream socialist parties in the UK, but there is a socialist movement growing around the 'Left List' in London politics, led by Lindsey German, who I admire greatly.

American politics. Democratic Party. Like the UK, no socialism, not even much civilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 07:32 PM

Wisely said Jim. Try to teach Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 09:22 PM

John, I certainly don't think of "liberal" as a dirty word. Heck, people call me that all the time. Hmmmm. I had a girlfriend who told me (in bed), "Gee, you sure are liberal." Shortly afterwards, she dumped me. I guess I'd prefer to call myself a Social Democrat, but we don't have Social Democrats in the U.S. Willy Brandt is still my all-time political hero.


But there has been a faction in the US that has spent the last 50 years attempting to portray "liberal" as the personification of evil. Nixon did it, Reagan did it, George W. did it - and now we have the talk shows and FoxNews (and Sarah Palin) portraying liberals as Satan himself.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 11:42 PM

"Socialist" is the dirty word of the moment in the U.S., particularly as it relates to healthcare. NPR had a story this morning about how the Republican National Committee is using fears of Obama-big-government (ha!) as a move toward "socialism" as a fundraising ploy. Not a new one, I would say.

Me, yes, I fall rather left of center. (Thus the "ha!", above.)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 11:02 AM

Socialist, liberal - yes, that's me and as proud of the fact as my grandfather was. As to my political party affiliations - I'm a member of the Green Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: Royston
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM

Well done, theleveller.

I vote Left List in London elections and Green nationally and for Europe.

For a socialist to vote any other way in this country is just a defeatist cop-out.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:56 PM

I remember a scene from Don't Look Back ,the film made about Bob Dylan's tour of England in the sixties. After being told that he had been called an anarchist the day before -I think by the BBC on their report of the tour - Dylan shakes his head and says in his usual grouchy way something like ,
"They call me an anarchist over here. It must be that the word communist doesn't sound quite so bad here in Europe as it does back home."

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:18 PM

Illiberal. 1 Not befitting a free man; not pertaining to or acquainted with the liberal arts, unscholarly; ill-bred, ungentlemanly; base, mean, vulgar, rude. 2. Not generous in respect to the opinions, rights or liberty of others; narrow-minded, bigoted; opposed to liberal principles 3. Not free in giving; stingy.

From The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (Third Edition 1983.)

Seems a very reasonable summary to me. Youi wouldn't want to hang around too much with people like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Folkies - US =Democrats & UK =Socialists
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:34 PM

That's the rub Mr McGrath............Many people call themselves liberals. Many Mudcats term themselves liberals, but some of those "liberals" are the most illiberal people I have ever encountered.
"Liberalism" is an extremely easy place for a fascist to hide.

I, like Tam, believe that I am an anarchist....in transition of course!