BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?

Subject: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:14 AM

What percentage of Uk compared to US troops have been killed in Afganistan in terms of a percentage of total troops commited to fight in that hell hole by both Governments?

My question is not antagonistic or hostile to any one party so please do not go there.
I mention Us and UK troops here because they are the main 'players' in this war, albeit I believe US troops outnumber UK troops by a ratio of about 10 to 1 or even higher.

I raise this question because I am a UK citizen and I believe that there is a huge safety issue hanging over British troops in Helmund Province that sits like a black cloud which has not been explained or has been feebly covered up by the British Government.

My heart sinks and bleeds whenever I hear on the news that more soldiers have been killed in Afganistan, whatever nationality those brave souls have.
BUT it seems to me (and I could be very wrong), but it seems to me that there is a disproportionate number of UK soldiers being killed in Afganistan compared to other nations who have sent troops out there.

It seems almost daily now that we hear of another UK death there and then parades of our glorious fallen through Wooten Bassett (I'm not sure about the spelling of this town - sorry!)and the great majority of these deaths have been inflicted by I.E.D's (Improvised Explosive Devices) buried in, or near, the roads on which our troops have to travel.

There have been many and growing reports about our UK troops being sent to war to risk their lives but have been let down by the Nation that sent them there because of inadequate protective vests, equipment, protected transport vehicles, weapons, ammunition, first aid, medical support, helicopters and shelter etc, etc, etc and are now frantically trying to cover up their errors.

I'm also pretty sure that the American forces must think that we Brits are one big joke and that we don't belong with the 'big boys' in such a theatre of war. I'm also pretty sure that they have been told to zip it and say nothing to rubbish or shame their only 'major ally'!
It's all about some kind of comical and misguided 'diplomacy'.

And you are quite right, our US brethren, we don't belong there because we are out of our depth. We cannot afford it; both in terms of the financial cost to drain our public purse and the cost in the priceless loss of human life.
The UK puffs out it's chest and pretends to be a world leader and a super power but those days have long gone; we no longer have a Commonwealth that dominated half the planet and it is time that we realised that and just accepted that we are now just a minor league player on the world stage.

We can't keep up with 'the big boys' and if we keep trying to pretend that we can, we will just cripple this noble nation into bankruptcy and emotional despair.   

So what the hell is going on?
Why are we sending our blessed lambs to the slaughter without sufficient planning, protection and propriety?
Surely this is a criminal act; akin to our Social Services not acting to save a vunerable child from harm!
They (our glorious leaders/our Government) should be prosecuted!
I'm sorry, but it makes me so mad.

But back to the initial question of this posting - Is there a disparity/disproportion between the numbers of UK troops killed in Afganistan compared to other nations (chiefly the USA) in terms of the percentage lost compared to the number of troops 'active in the field'?

Such figures never seem to be disclosed and whilst we don't really want to know the awful truth I really now believe that we should ask this question to give some real perspective to the cost of this war in terms of lives lost.

It is our right to ask and learn the truth. So how do we learn the true facts that could shame our Government?

All suggestions and advice about how we can apply pressure to get to the bottom of this and come up with the real facts of this horrible and 'unwinnable' war will be most welcome.

I don't mean to sound cold-hearted here because I truly care and support all our troops and hope that they believe that they are fighting a 'just war'.

But we must also be clinical in asking such a question and get the true facts and truth from politicians that have so far run a mile from providing any kind of answer to this question.

What do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 04:17 AM

In order to reach a view from casualty ratios about whether adequate support was being provided by the UK for its troops in Afghanistan we would also need to understand the distribution of tasks locally undertaken. I may be wrong but I think that UK troops are doing a proportionately larger share of dangerous footsoldier work.

One ought also not to forget Canadian troops: they are still there are they not (or have they been withdrawn already)?

Another interesting statistic would be the number of friendly fire incidents - which body of troops most often kills or wounds its own allies?

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:59 AM

I was quite amazed that the sums had not already been done and posted somewhere - But they don't seem to have been!

Very roughly - The first number is the total number of deaths, the second is the current number of troops and the third is the percentage. Only from Wiki I'm afraid but I presume it is verifyable?

USA 1020 23000 = 4.4%

UK 270 5700 = 4.7%

Not a big difference and, as Richard says, there are many other factors to account for before making anything significant out of it. The number of troops there at various times would also need to be factored in to give us an average rather than the current figure.

Someone else can work it out!

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:55 AM

Soldier Boy, you seem to have a national inferiority complex going on in your mind.
How about considering an alternative view?
The forces on the ground are subject to government interference, rather than being left to get on with the job in their own way.
The governments in turn are hugely at the mercy of popular opinion which is generated by media cover.
Our enemies know this, and play on it to the best of their ability, knowing that it is their best way forward to win, or to obtain a favourable result from their perspective.
Our (UK) forces are second to NONE.
The US forces are the best equipped, bar NONE.
But, lamentably, the public at large, who are ill-informed at best, are allowed to interfere to the detriment of those who are tasked with providing their freedom and safety in this increasingly mad world.
Having a public discussion as to the merits of the individual forces, their political motives, their suitability or their willingness, only goes to hinder this task.
You cannot win a war with one arm tied behind your back!
And you want to hold the rope.
I served with the British Army in Northern Ireland. A conflict which lasted for over 30 years (Op Banner) on British soil, and within 30mins flying time from Liverpool!
During that period (1969 - 2007) 1,188 British Security Forces personnel are recorded as Fallen in this conflict.
In the year I was involved, 1972, there were 192 soldiers killed.
There were 1,853 bombings, 10,564 shootings.
For comparison, the number of British military personnel killed on operations in Afghanistan since 2001 stands at 273.
There were NO Ramp Ceremonies held for our repatriated dead.
NO Wootton Bassett tributes.
And the Royal British Legion refuse to allow us to have our own Op Banner garden of remembrance.
End of rant. (nothing personal, Soldier Boy)

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: CET
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:06 PM

Soldier Boy's post is horseshit from beginning to end.

He claims not to want to antagonize anybody and accuses the Americans of not pulling their weight in Afghanistan.

He plays the patriot and spits on the reputation of British soldiers. These are the people he insults when he says that "American forces must think that we Brits are one big joke". Unlike Soldier Boy, I have actually met and worked with American forces, and I can tell you that the British Army is held in very regard by Americans (as it is by Canadian soldiers).

I can respect an honestly held view that the war in Afghanistan is misguided, but I despise this brand of weepy, dishonst sentimentality by people who pretend to love soldiers.

By the way, for what it's worth, the Canadian Forces have, or had until recently, the highest percentage of fatal casualties in Afghanistan.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:48 PM

Whatever the reasons for starting this thread, nobody had been announcing the casualty figures for our allies, and I must admit I was curious.

Unlike the OP however, the figures, when they came were almost exactly as I had expected.

It's pretty clever to manage to insult all the participants, even the ones you are supposed to be supporting.

Do you enjoy having that foot in your mouth, soldier boy, or is it a birth defect?

The moniker doesn't ring true either. Hard to believe that a soldier, past or present, would be unaware that the British Army is regarded as one of the most professional in the World.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:00 PM

I did not see anything directed against the U.S. in Soldier Boys post.
But he should be aware that only British losses are mentioned in the British media, not American or other nationalities unless it is considered 'newsworthy'.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:04 PM

I know it is not my place, as I have been told before, to comment on military matters, but, I risk this... the Brits are the best at warfare.. since 1066.

As far as the politics, if anyone thinks the Commonwealth is defunct and the Yanks run the world through their military and economic strength... well, gee whiz.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: GUEST,CET
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:34 PM

Gnu, as far as I am concerned you are welcome to comment on military matters. If I disagree with you on something important, I'll tell you, but that doesn't mean I think you have no right to voice an opinion.

Actually, I have to disagree with you about the Brits being the best at warfare since 1066. There have been times when British armies have been absolutely atrocious at warfare - most of the 16th and 17th centuries for example. In the Second World War it took the Brits some time (as it did the Americans and the Canadians) before they were the equals of the Germans and Japanese at fighting.

I agree with you about the absurdity of the attitude that the Americans rule the world because of their economic and military might. The U.S. cannot do everything, everywhere and at all times.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:45 PM

Forget the numbers game-if you want to learn about the individuals who have been lost go to

Afghanistan

5 American dead on 1 March 2010 -completely tragic

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: CET
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 08:00 AM

Thank you for the link, Linda. You're right. The numbers game is not worth playing.

The site is not up to date, though. The last Canadian death listed is from September 2009. We have had, alas, several more since then.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: 3refs
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 05:39 PM

"By the way, for what it's worth, the Canadian Forces have, or had until recently, the highest percentage of fatal casualties in Afghanistan".
I think it's been that way since The Great War. When we go, it's "all the way".

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 05:49 PM

I can't answer the question; in any case, the numbers are too high.

One of the most poignant moments I can imagine is when PBS TV periodically broadcasts the name,hometown, rank and photo of recently fallen. Sometimes it is only 5, other times it is 8 or 10.

It is done in profound silence.

Subject: RE: BS: What% UK/US troops killed in Afganistan?
From: CET
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 07:58 PM

Actually, 3refs, it has not been that way since WWI. Our losses were certainly substantial for a nation of only about 9 million people (about 60,000 dead I think), but Australia and New Zealand lost similar numbers, and possibly more. As for France and Russia I would be amazed if their percentage of fatal casualties was not considerably higher. In WWII Canada had a higher population and suffered fewer fatalities.

In any case, I did not mention Canadian casualties in Afghanistan to provoke flag waving and boasting about how rugged we are, but only in response to the suggestion that British soldiers were suffering more casualties than anyone else.

As Linda said - forget the numbers game.