BS: fortune telling = death?

Subject: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 11:09 AM

Lawyer: Saudi could behead Lebanese for witchcraft
            
Bassem Mroue, Associated Press Writer – 3 mins ago

BEIRUT – The lawyer of a Lebanese TV psychic who was convicted in Saudi Arabia for witchcraft said Thursday her client could be beheaded this week and urged Lebanese and Saudi leaders to help spare his life.

Attorney May al-Khansa said she learned from a judicial source that Ali Sibat is to be beheaded on Friday. She added that she does not have any official confirmation of this. Saudi judicial officials could not be immediately reached for comment.

A Lebanese official said Beirut has received no word from its embassy in Riyadh about Sibat's possible execution. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

The Saudi justice system, which is based on Islamic law, does not clearly define the charge of witchcraft.

Sibat is one of scores of people reported arrested every year in the kingdom for practicing sorcery, witchcraft, black magic and fortunetelling. These practices are considered polytheism by the government in Saudi Arabia, a deeply religious Muslim country.

Later Thursday, a dozen people demonstrated near the Saudi embassy in Beirut's western neighborhood of Qureitim. Four of the men wore masks to look like executioners and carried a wooden gallows with a cloth bag hanging from it.

One of the men carried a small banner that read in Arabic: "Don't kill."

Al-Khansa said she has called upon Saudi King Abdullah to pardon Sibat, a 49-year-old father of five. She also says she is in contact with Lebanese officials about the case.

She added that Sibat did not make predictions in Saudi Arabia and was neither a Saudi citizen nor a resident in Saudi and therefore should have been deported rather than tried there.

Sibat made predictions on an Arab satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut. He was arrested by the Saudi religious police during his pilgrimage to the holy city of Medina in May 2008 and sentenced to death last November.

"Ali is not a criminal. He did not commit a crime or do anything disgraceful, " al-Khansa said. "The world should help in rescuing a man who has five children, a wife and a seriously ill mother."

She added that Sibat's mother's health has been deteriorating since her son was sentenced to death.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said last year that Sibat's death sentence should be overturned. It also called on the Saudi government to halt "its increasing use of charges of 'witchcraft,' crimes that are vaguely defined and arbitrarily used."

Last year, the rights group presented a series of cases in the kingdom, including that of Saudi woman Fawza Falih, who was sentenced to death by beheading in 2006 for the alleged crimes of "witchcraft, recourse to jinn (supernatural beings)" and animal sacrifice.

On November 2, 2007, Mustafa Ibrahim, an Egyptian pharmacist, was executed for sorcery in the Saudi capital of Riyadh after he was found guilty of having tried "through sorcery" to separate a married couple, Human Rights Watch said.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 11:24 AM

The Saudi government doesn't give a crap whether or not anyone practices sorcery. They're just using this as one more part of their effort to hold on to power in a completely anti-democratic and totalitarian state. Because of the fact that the US government is propping up this dictatorship (because they are willing to play ball with us over their oil), that means that you and I, beardedbruce, and all US taxpayers, are complicit in this man's fate. If you care what happens to him, maybe you should start campaigning the US government to stop propping up the Saudi regime.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:50 PM

Their country their laws. I doubt that the laws were not known to those accused. They have protesters and an opposition to the sentences. Let them sort it out.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 03:14 PM

JtS,


"She added that Sibat did not make predictions in Saudi Arabia and was neither a Saudi citizen nor a resident in Saudi and therefore should have been deported rather than tried there.

Sibat made predictions on an Arab satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut. He was arrested by the Saudi religious police during his pilgrimage to the holy city of Medina in May 2008 and sentenced to death last November."


So, if YOU ever go to Saudi Arabia, they can execute you under their law for what you have done here.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 03:22 PM

Hmmmm, that is ironic considering why he was there.

I won't be going to Saudi on a pilgrimage.

Why do you care? Are you a Warlock?

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 03:29 PM

Well, here, when corporate executives defraud the entire country, ruin many peoples lives and cause economic upheavel, they get away with it. If you defraud someone in SA, you get yer head cut off. Hmmmmm...

I'm just sayin.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 03:40 PM

So, you will approve of the beating of any women from here that go to Saudi Arabia, and are arrested for NOT having worn a burkha here?

After all, that is their law.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:02 PM

So have you contacted the US government and demanded that we stop propping up the Saudi regime, beardedbruce?

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:51 PM

No Bruce, but i might advise her not to go there in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:55 PM

Are you thinking of going on a Haj without a burka Bruce? I think your beard will keep you safe.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:28 PM

Couldn't he see all this coming?

Televangelists next, I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:39 PM

Sorry, JtS.

It is illegal for me to vist Saudi Arabia, or Mecca. Just like it is illegal for me to live in Jordan, the Arab Palestinian Homeland.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:12 PM

Jews can visit Saudi Arabia. You might be disqualified if they were to find evidence that you have visited Israel, though.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:18 PM

"How Saudi Arabia Discriminates Against Jews
And How the U.S. Government Enabled the Bigotry for Years
By Pierre Tristam, About.com Guide

In 2004, U.S. Rep, Anthony Weiner, a New York Democrat, called on President Bush to deny travel visas to Saudi Arabians until the Saudi government explained what appeared to be a policy of banning Jews from traveling to the Kingdom.
The Saudi government's official tourism web site in 2004 listed four groups of people who would be denied visas regardless:

Israelis and anyone with a passport "that has an Israeli arrival/departure stamp."

Those who don't abide by Saudi traditions, and those under the influence of alcohol.

Non-Muslims intending to go to Mecca or Medina, where non-Muslims are banned.

"Jewish people."

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:19 PM

Also, you keep saying that Jews are not allowed to live in Jordan. I've been looking around for a long time to find some evidence of that and I have not been able to find any. Please provide some evidence (in the form of a law or regulation from the government of Jordan that I can look up myself) that you're not just blowing smoke when you say that.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:21 PM

Well, he's not telling the truth.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Saudi_Arabia

Nationals of Israel and those with evidence of visiting Israel will be denied visas, although merely being Jewish in and of itself is not a disqualifying factor.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:22 PM

The 2008 U.S. State Department report on religious freedom in Saudi Arabia summed up conditions there:

In accordance with the country's official interpretation of Islam, it is considered acceptable to discriminate against religions held to be polytheistic. Christians and Jews, who are classified as "People of the Book," are also discriminated against, but to a lesser extent. This discrimination is manifested, for example, in calculating accidental death or injury compensation. In the event a court renders a judgment in favor of a plaintiff who is a Jewish or Christian male, the plaintiff is only entitled to receive 50 percent of the compensation a Muslim male would receive, and all others (including Hindus, Buddhists, and Sikhs) are only entitled to receive 1/16 the amount a male Muslim would receive. Furthermore, judges may discount the testimony of non-practicing Muslims or individuals who do not adhere to the official interpretation of Islam. For example, testimony by Shi'a can be deemed to carry less weight than testimony by Sunnis or be ignored in courts of law altogether, despite official Government statements that judges do not discriminate based on religion when hearing testimonies. Moreover, a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's, and a non-Muslim's testimony is worth less than that of a Muslim's.

Subject: RE: BS: fortune telling = death?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 11:18 PM

You've just changed the subject. That doesn't say anything about Jews visiting.

So have you started your campaign to get the US government to stop propping up the Saudi regime yet?