Secrets of a good singaround?

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 08:47 PM

1. Good songs, singers and musicians.

2. Guiness, Pear Cider and Whisky.

3. Short introductions!

4. Everyone gets a go (beginners, the not so good singers and not so good musicians)

I sometimes have to run the singaround and find it fairly important to remember the following.

1. I was once a beginner at singing.

2. I was once learning to play guitar.

3. Even though I am able to do Arthur McBride (and several other songs) without reference to a book. I sometimes need an aide memoire.

4. If it hadn't been for all the tolerant, encouraging people I met when I started, I might have given up.

For all those who know me who have just said "I wish he would"!

Unlucky!!!!!!

That said I do find the following a bit disconcerting at times.

1. Sober people who have the words written in a book to refer to and still forget them!

2. Those who say they are going to sing such and such a song but forget to inform the rest of the session that it is not the normal tune but their own arrangement in several unrelated keys!

I can also agree with a previous poster with regards to those who, despite knowing their turn is coming, spend valuable singing/playing time, getting their instrument out, tuning it and giving a lengthy introduction to a well known song when their turn arrives.

Unfortunately though, these people do exist and it is unlikely they will disappear in the future. Luckily it doesn't happen very often!

Best wishes to you all and long may we sing and play.

CC

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 09:34 PM

That's a very thorough and well thought out list Commander Crabbe and sums up very concisely many contributions on postings on this thread.
Good stuff Sir!
I would,however,add a good selection of hand-pulled real ales to the favoured drinks menu!

Chris

P.S : By 'Arthur McBride' did you mean to say 'Willie Mcbride' (The Green Fields of France) or is this a different song altogether?

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: gnomad
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 03:50 AM

It's a different one, Chris, I know CC & his repertoire well enough to say that with confidence. AMcB is a longer and (I should say) older song about recruiting. There is one version here.

CC runs a good show when called upon, but is just as happy to contribute to one run by someone else. That is the type of modesty that helps a good singaround to function. You are right, though, he did omit that one significant menu item.

I would just add that those who feel they must give an introduction really need to know their facts. A rambling introduction is bad enough, but when it gets the known origin, purpose, or title of the song wrong that is downright embarrassing.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 04:57 PM

CC
I couldn't agree more the encourage I have had from Singer arounds and sessions is great. I laugh and joke a lot on Mudcat and folk know me sense of humor.
But encouragement from others is memorable and above all necessary. no joke.
Kind regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 05:34 PM

The secret of a really good singaround is that it's run really well by the MC but people don't notice that there was any skill involved....

Acorn4 - Hamish sang (and credited) one of your parodies at last night's Banbury Song & Ale singaround.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: RamblinStu
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 05:47 PM

Bob Kenward can run a bloomin good singaround too

Keep the Woodsheds Burning.

Stuart Pendrill

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 09:09 PM

Thanks gnomad.
The Arthur McBride song looks like a great song and obviously far older than the Willie McBride (The Green Fields of France) song and is about recruiting men (by fair means or foul) to the navy.
I have been trying to get the tune for this but so far have failed.
But will keep trying.
Many thanks for your kind reply.

Chris

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM

Chris - Arthur McBride is also known as "The Recruiting Sergeant". Here's Planxty's version (Paul Brady's is also worth a listen).

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: janemick
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 03:56 AM

I personally hate the 'jump up' type of singaround - the excess adrenalin often makes me pitch a song far too high (another bonus for singers with instruments for accompaniment)so I have to stop and re-pitch it.
I think MCs should try to balance giving nervous/words-reading/marathon ballad singers a go, but perhaps encouraging them to change their ways eg: "I expect you'll have that off by heart by next time"
A system that doesnt circle the room allows the MC to avoid more than a single 'go' for a really poor singer, and so keep the session going well.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 04:20 AM

Thanks to all of the above - lots of excellent advice

L in C

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 05:16 AM

giving nervous/words-reading/marathon ballad singers a go, but perhaps encouraging them to change their ways

Should marathon ballad singers change their ways?

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST, RBotob
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 05:39 AM

Stamping on banjo players who keeep jumping in (often over other quieter introductions) helps. Some people know who the offensive banjo player I have in mind is. A very good tenor player with absolutely no consideration for others and a range of guilty secrets.

A host who does not hold up the singing by holding court and telling shaggy dog stories to his immediate circle of friends also helps. Again, I suspect the guilty party knows who I mean (it isn't the Bard nor the Mixer)

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 06:00 AM

People should should sing what they like. If the session has no guidance who can complain.

If it is a Singer-Songwriter Session - I guess such a beast exists - then a marathon ballad would make a welcome change. If the Session is "Songs mostly but not exclusively traditional" (Sog my butnet) then songs of known origin are claerly welcome.

People stamping on banjo players is, in my experience, not mentioned in guidance to session. It is worth remembering that a banjo, particularly a damaged banjo could be an appropriate object to wrap around the neck of banjo and banjo player damagers.

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Paul Reade
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 06:12 AM

I think any musicians, not just banjo players, need to be sensitive to what is going on when joining in.

If it's an unfamiliar song, or an unaccompanied singer has just kicked off in a very obscure key (I do it all the time I've been told), it can be very offputting. I find guitarists are usually OK as they tend to play very quietly until they pick it up, but at a recent session someone played a clarinet so loudly, with no empathy with the tune, that the singer had to stop and ask them (politely) to stop.

I'm also surprised at the number of amateur percussionists that don't seem to have a sense of rhythm!

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 11:16 AM

Thank you very much Pip Radish for the Planxty's version of Arthur McBride. That's very much appreciated. It really is an excellent song.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Acorn4
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 12:17 PM

I've found that melodeon players can be guilty of jumping in a nanosecond after (or even before) someone has just finished.

I'd back a melodeon player to beat a banjo player on jumping in any day.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 01:13 PM

Jumping in is usually a brutal practice. As well as trampling the less pushy, it means that anyone singing or playing as a duo, trio or more has next to no chance of getting started.

If there was a group understanding that no-one should claim more than a single turn before everyone in the room has had a bash it might be a bit more equitable, but it's more likely that the group will behave like a shoal of piranah going after a lone paddler.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 01:22 PM

Is it worth pointing out that this thread is concerned with fully sensient adults, willingly gathering in a room, to sing and / or play music together and that most of us, by most standards, are kind of OK and a few are raelly good?

L in C

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST,Tootler away
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 01:40 PM

An alternative to jumping in is the nominate system. When you have finished singing, you nominate the next one to sing. Of course, there is still a chance of a small group hogging the sessions but a rule that no one gets a second song until every one in the room has had chance of a first should avoid that happening.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 04:49 PM

When you have finished singing, you nominate the next one to sing.

That's an interesting one - can anyone report on how it works in practice?

Someone upthread mentioned the sing-pass-or-nominate system. I've never seen that either, but always been a bit wary of it - I can see it developing into a popularity contest for the votes of the non-singers, which isn't really how I see singarounds! Same question - do people find it works in practice?

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Tootler
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 04:59 PM

I've only known it late at night when the "official" singaround has finished and it was used for those who wanted to carry on. It works quite well in that situation as it is less formal and people are drifting away. I find it better than jumping in as it allows for a pause between songs and does not disadvantage the unaccompanied singers which jumping in does.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 05:18 PM

I don't mind a jump in/dive in session if the numbers are few and the people know and respect each other. If some are reluctant to dive in, you can say 'How about a song from ....?'

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 06:38 PM

I entirely agree with Herga Kitty (at 05;34 pm) and hope that the numerous singarounds I have run at various festivals have ben run in this way.
geoff turner

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Acorn4
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM

I've actually started running singarounds recently as well as just taking part in them. The most difficult part I find is timing. You want to make sure that everyone gets a second/third go if possible, but you have to do a mental calculation in your head as to how much time is left and how many people left to have a go.

It can sometimes get upset by things like people doing long songs, people turning up late unexpectedly. When everyone can't get a go on the last round you have to make difficult choices.

Interesting to see it from that side of the fence.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:13 AM

When we don't have time for a complete circuit to finish the evening, we raffle off the spare time. The holder of a winning ticket (saved btw from the halftime raffle) can either sing or nominate someone else. This method has lead to some of our best ever singarounds and has alleviated the problem of late night mental arithmetic.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Brakn
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:57 AM

I'm no expert but I think the fairest ways is "by time of arrival" which of course will need an aware and organised MC. A singer who turns up at eight should be able to sing more songs than someone who strolls in at a quarter to ten.

I've yet to go to a singaround where everybody couldn't have had a second song though I have been to one where early arrivals got one and later arrivals got four - you just don't go again.

I like to know a bit about the songs people sing though I draw the line at ten minute ramble on how the singer spent his/her weekend and what their journey to work was like this morning. Again it require a strong MC.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: janemick
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:03 AM

Pip asked: 'Should marathon ballad singers change their ways?'

to which I reply: possibly not, if they can manage to engage their audience in what should be a gripping and often gory tale. However, there are few performers who can achieve this. Most long ballad singers lose their audiene by the fifth verse, and carry on unaware...

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 09:42 AM

I've heard Lord Bateman, Young Hunting, Tam Lin and Little Musgrave done in singarounds, and never been bored. The only boring long ballad I can ever remember sitting through was a performance of Sir Patrick Spens (the long version, where they sink on the way back) - and that was only boring because the singer was also an accomplished guitarist with a knack for improvising twiddly bits between verses, and thought it would be a good idea to show off this skill after every single verse. (Also because I was hoping to get called myself some time that night. Which I didn't.)

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: IanC
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 10:56 AM

Many of the traditional "singing pubs" had a nominated person who was effectively an MC and decided who sang next. With someone who is perceptive and basically fair, that works very well. It's essentially a "benign dictatorship" approach.

Failing that the "co-op method" works partially and for part of the time and the "jump in" method tends to work well for listeners but not so well for anybody who might be intimidated.

The session I run, people look to me for leadership and I'm forced to give it. At the start, it's pretty much round the room and in the end it's all together. The bit in the middle is usually where some leadership is called for.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: mg
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:27 AM

Very best...no taking turns, no books, let the leaders lead and the rest of us sing in the choruses and occasionally ask if someone wants to lead one. Not for everyone, but I don't have the patience any more to sit through 10 solos to hear one song I truly want to hear and sing along with. mg

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:38 AM

The nominating system can be quite depressing if you never get nominated and is also subject to the old pals act. I think of all the previpous ideas that is the worst and should be avioded at all costs.

Joe Nicholson.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: IanC
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:55 AM

Just works. Can have a crap leader but ...

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 08:43 PM

Seems like you've just got to hope that magic happens.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:27 AM

One suggestion. Tune your friggin' instrument before the sing around starts. It is so annoying to see someone wait until they have the floor to start tuning.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: buddhuu
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

I'm not entirely au fait with nomenclature, but I think what we do is kind of a singaround with instruments.

Great ones may happen spontaneously, but if you run a regular one it can take a surprising amount of discreet work to keep it running smoothly.

Things which contribute to a positive experience.

1) Courtesy:
* Making sure your instrument is in tune (if tunable)
* Acknowledging everyone's contribution with applause, a nod, a murmur or whatever
* Not tuning up loudly or talking loudly while other participants are singing/playing
* Not stopping the person who called/started the tune or song after 8 bars because that's not the version you know, so are they sure they're doing it right?
* Not jumping in out of turn because you just thought of a good one
* Sitting a song out if you don't know the song or are not confident of being able to play along without ruining it for the person taking their turn

2) Discipline - no iron fist, just preventing chaos
* Not widdling loudly between songs, or "practising [loudly] until the next song starts"
* Tuning up, finding your capo and any lyrics or music you need before your turn arrives.
* Offering to pass on your turn if you can't get your arse in gear promptly
* Not starting songs that you will have to abandon halfway through because you are not prepared.

Technical ability is not the most important thing, IMHO. As has been observed, many people can't sing "well", but their performances are enjoyable, nonetheless.

We have a chap at our session who doesn't play guitar well or sing well, but his attitude is spot-on and we're all rooting for him. He actually does the Father Ted thing... "Wait, wait - I can get this bit!" KERRANG! It all adds to the atmosphere and the fun.

If a session/singaround takes place in a pub I would suggest that it is considerate of the MC to have at least some aspirations to entertain the other punters who may be present in addition to members of the session. Some of my points above - the widdling and playing half a song, for example - are made with this in mind.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Hamish
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:24 AM

(Nearly) all of the above, plus:

a space that's not quite big enough. By which I mean it's always better when you're all crammed together rather than spread thinly over a large area.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:27 AM

Someone said they didn't like themed singarounds: this is something we do once a month a one club I go to, and usually works well. Inevitably someone will turn up not knowing it was the theme week, so we then invent the most tenuous and devious connections between what they choose to sing and the theme - all part of the fun and hilarity. It also encourages people to look outside their usual repertoire, with sometimes stunning results.
On discipline and etiquette, probably also worth making a statement about letting folk say if they wish to be strictly UNaccompanied, or whether they are happy for all and sundry to join in on whatever battery of voice and instruments turn up. I saw one a cappella trad singer doing an amazing job of putting would-be accompanists off by liberal use pregnant pauses and extreme rubato - and it just about worked!

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Paul Reade
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 10:27 AM

Someone said if you really want to put off accompanists, do a song in the key of B. Mind you some accompanists would regard this as a challenge so it could end up even worse!

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Marje
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 11:05 AM

The singarounds I've enjoyed most have generally been completely unaccompanied ones. This gets rid of the problems of inappropriate accompaniments, out-of-tune instruments (buy not, alas, tuneless voices), long instrumental episodes that break the flow of the song, and the instrumental noodlers who hog the bandwidth and make it difficult for anyone else to get started.

I can see that some singers don't like to "push in", so some sort of turn-taking is usually best. I find it makes me jumpy not knowing when my turn is coming, so I prefer not to be "nominated" without warning. The system where you pass some object around the room, and take your turn when you've got it, (like the stick in Sidmouth Middle Bar) can work well, as long as the singer passes it on to someone else as soon as their own turn begins. That gives the next singer time to think of something that's suitable to follow on from the current song.

Marje

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:08 PM

I'm not completely adverse to the "jump-in" method - but the wife complains every time!

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:16 PM

Very best...no taking turns, no books, let the leaders lead and the rest of us sing in the choruses and occasionally ask if someone wants to lead one.

To me that totally misses the point. If that's what you want, you might as well go to a concert. A singaround is about participation and most people go to a singaround expecting to be asked to sing - to take part. There are a few who are happy to listen, but they tend to be the exception.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Ref
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 07:04 PM

"Very best...no taking turns, no books, let the leaders lead and the rest of us sing in the choruses and occasionally ask if someone wants to lead one."

Once again, "the books" comes up. I'd rather have someone sing/play from a book, just about any book, than have to put up with someone who can't remember his words or music. I also agree with Tootler that everyone ought to have the opportunity to lead or choose a piece.

I do NOT want to hear a complaint that the song I choose "isn't in the book." People need to be ready to hear and learn something new, and some songs are just better with a solo on the verses and group on the chorus.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:02 PM

You have to decide up front what you want, and they are diametrically opposed, I think.

Do you want a community experience that involves sharing and supporting? It includes music but the community experience is the important thing. Go to Plan A.

Do you want the best possible music, and is that in place already? If it is not, I don't really know how you will get it, but assuming it is in place and you want to keep it that way, go to Plan B.

Plan A.
Take turns. Religiously. Have a great big circle, the bigger the better and keep moving the chairs back and back. Allow if not encourage the blue books. Don't worry if they are not to GB yet. They are on their way. In fact, paperless options are now on their way. Get your computerized projector out. Turn the flourescent lights on as bright as your eyes can stand so that people can read their music.

Plan B. If you already have great singers, do what they do. Ask them what they like and what will make them show up and not show up. If they like Plan A, you are home free. Chances are they won't but they won't tell you but then they won't show up either.

Default is Plan A. It can be very enjoyable for all who come. The others will be somewhere else, and if I knew where I would join them and just listen and not care if I personally got a turn or not.

There is no right or wrong. I am more about preserving great music conclaves rather than setting them up afresh. If it is great don't mess with it. mg

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:02 PM

Over-organizing—over-planning—can kill an otherwise potentially good songfest.

The best, most enjoyable (by everyone) songfests I have ever been to—and I went to my first sometime in 1952—have been of the "no host," and definitely "no M.C." variety, where we gather in someone's living room, and when "critical mass" is achieved (most of those who are expected to show up), we tune up, then someone starts off. It bounces back and forth in no particular order. If someone sings a couple of songs in a row, no sweat. Often an exchange of songs will happen in the form of a sort of dialog. Someone sings a song, then someone else says, "That reminds me of—" or something like that. We may beat on a particular theme for awhile, then someone will hop in with something different.

No body is put on the spot and anyone is free to jump in when and if they are so moved.

Spontaneity.

The main thing to keep in mind is simple courtesy, which says, "Don't hog the show." Everyone should be cognizant of the other people in the room, and if someone is sitting there looking eager, a simple, "You got something, Helen?" is in order.

Don't tell me it doesn't work, because these are the ones I've seen work the best. If someone is monopolizing the show, someone should give them a discreet dig in the ribs. But a designated "Sergeant-At-Arms" is a bit over the top and shouldn't be necessary.

By the way, I never saw anyone singing out of books or off crib-sheets until very recent times.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 10:28 PM

I'm a bit worried now!

GUESTmg said above: "Take turns. Religiously....Allow if not encourage the blue books. Don't worry if they are not to GB yet. They are on their way."

I hope I am wrong and that mg was not referring to 'GREAT BRITAIN' when he/she referred to 'GB'.

Otherwise it sounds like some kind of ominous plot or 'call to arms' to invade Great Britain with floods of the 'blue books' and somehow brainwash us all to hymnals so we all end up singing from one book (the 'bible' of permitted songs) and we all end up singing the same old songs over and over like we are in Church. God forbid!

Bloody hell, we're still fighting the ruddy Mormons from our doorsteps for God's sake! Give us a break.

But joking aside, I am sure that that was all a bad dream and that I have completely misinterpreted mg's reference to 'GB' and that no global invasion is intended at all (or is it?).

Anyway; we have a history of repelling invaders from our shores so you 'aint got no chance cobber and it will never work!


.....unless you come to help us (Oooops!)

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 10:35 PM

Vigilance is always wise, Soldier boy.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:25 AM

mg - you're conflating two very different things: the singaround (where everyone takes turns to sing a song, usually from memory, some with choruses and some not) and something that sounds more like community singing. I've never seen these 'blue books' and hope I never do!

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: buddhuu
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:58 AM

I've been running our acoustic session/singaround/tune session Frankenstein hybrid for about 5 years now. It has assumed various forms.

The Plough in Ley Green, Herts is a rural pub in a tiny village. It does not, by default, have a huge number of customers on a Tuesday evening. There are more these days because of the music. We have to try to hook and retain every guest who turns up and morph them into a regular.

In the beginning it was largely a folk song session that turned into an informal performance. We had one very strong, very trad, singer (Pete Bliss from Luton). By necessity there were no turns as such: it was an ensemble thing. We all introduced songs into the repertoire and Pete sang them (with occasional vocals by a couple of others) as he was the only singer we had.

That was fine until a few more guys joined who had a rock and roll background and Pete left to live in Portugal. The rock and roll guys gradually lapsed into their comfort zones, and I let it slide. Before I knew what was happening we were a skiffle/rock and roll band with comedy folk instruments. A 9-piece band called The Ploughmen emerged and became pretty popular in pubs and clubs locally.

Fortunately(?!) the band tired of playing in The Plough every Tuesday and decided to spread it about a bit. Out of loyalty to my local, and seeing a chance to restore the folk direction, I quit the band (amicably) that I had inadvertently founded to concentrate on the pub session.

Now, The Ploughmen play on the second Tuesday each month and all other Tuesdays are singaround/session.

So, if one is too relaxed, and imposes no guidance at all, things can go pretty off-course, and it can be very hard to restore direction.

I am quite determined that this time things will, at core, stay as intended.

The format I currently have is the big (geometrically questionable) circle. We go round in turns. Each participant, at his/her turn, has a number of options:

* Sing/play a song or tune, solo or accompanied
* Request/suggest a song/tune from another participant
* Start an ensemble standard from our common pool of tunes so everyone joins in on equal terms and really goes for it
* Pass on the turn to the next person

There is no obligation to lead/start a tune. People can pass on every turn and just join in with other people's tunes if they wish. As host, I mostly do this, with the exception of a few trad dance tunes I play with another guy.

Latecomers get fewer songs by virtue of the fact that earlier arrivals simply get more turns.

I make it clear to all musicians and audience that all comers are welcome to join us, and any musicians they know should be encouraged, by physical force if necessary, to come along and have a crack.

We have a no-amplification rule, apart from one mic that captures the overall ambience and which can be pointed in the general direction of a particularly quiet soloist.

Electric bass is allowed on very rare occasions where the player has contacted in advance to see if it's ok. But, as I say, default is no amps.

So far, this latest incarnation is working very nicely. There are already signs that another band (a folk/blues trio) may emerge from this session, but the two things will be kept separate this time.

Apologies for a long and dull post, but the first part depicts the kind of derailment that could strike many an inexperienced host. I though it may be worth sharing.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: buddhuu
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:08 AM

The physical force thing in my previous post was a joke, BTW.

Song books are welcome. Amnesia may be induced by nervousness. We want people to be comfortable.

We don't frown on capos either.

With respect to people who consider that everyone should learn songs by heart and, for that matter, that all players should be able to play in all keys by shifting position etc etc etc... We are not professionals. We are people with too few hours in each day to practice and learn as much as we would like, having a bit of social, musical crack. If the shy, or musically undeveloped need a crutch, well what the heck. I can always find room for a music stand or two.

Subject: RE: Secrets of a good singaround?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:28 AM

Seems to me a hundred things make for a good Singaround but the most important ones are that people know songs and sing 'em

L in C