Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST Date: 31 Jan 22 - 05:11 PM This little planter's poem has apparently gone through many changes over the years. I say that based on all the variations I found in my search. The variations probably resulted because the poem most likely was verbally communicated and not written down until recently. In Kansas the poem I heard was; One for the worm and one for the crow, One to lay fallow and one to grow. I have never heard this version of the poem in a song (however, my relatives are not that musically inclined). It was always recited as a poem. My family roots are English farmers but I have had no luck in linking this poem back to England. - Jim |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST,JeffB Date: 29 Dec 20 - 11:09 AM Thanks SandyM. That sounds plausible. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST,SandyM Date: 28 Dec 20 - 12:43 PM Re 'the old drum': Can't give you an authoritative answer, but educated guess: it says '...stands till the old drum gets here'. Threshing machines usually employed a drum to thresh and would often (always?) be hired out rather than owned by a single farm. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: JeffB Date: 12 Jul 20 - 05:01 PM Does anyone know what the 'old drum' was? Was it a rope which went around the stack? |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: Howard Jones Date: 12 Jul 20 - 03:34 PM An acre can of course be any shape, but traditionally was 1 furlong by 1 chain (660 ft x 66 ft). However a furrow was maybe 9 inches wide, so that would mean 88 times up and down the field. That gives you your 11 miles, and that's without walking to and from work from home, and from the farm to the fields and back. They were hard old boys. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: cnd Date: 12 Jul 20 - 10:39 AM 11 miles is just typical singing exaggeration. The number eleven (probably) has the right number of syllables to fit the rhyme scheme and is a reasonable yet long distance to walk each day. While some people who are in very good shape can walk 20+ miles a day (even through rugged terrain), most people have there upper limits around 10-15, and doing this every day takes its toll on your average person. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: quantock Date: 12 Jul 20 - 10:25 AM I first heard Sue the Borderer sing this in the Middle Bar at Sidmouth a few years ago. I loved it, partly because it reminded of the rhyme my mother used to say: "One for the rook, one for the crow, one to rot and one to grow". I'm now in the process of learning the song, but there's one bit I'm curious about at the end of the 2nd verse: "He could plough and acre in a day, but he'd walk eleven miles and say...". Does anyone know the significance of him walking eleven miles? |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 19 - 06:39 PM The rhyme is older than anyone here has suggested; in the early 18th century Virginia it was: 'One for the Blackbird, one for the Crow, one for the Cutworm, and one to grow'. I surmise it predates the colonial period here, and that it is fairly ancient. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST Date: 05 May 12 - 09:37 AM Just heard it as we walked through the EEL FAIR at Ely sung by a group. People were humming it along the road as we walked away. |
Subject: RE: One for Rook, One for Crow-chorus songs From: peregrina Date: 30 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM Thanks very much Mr. Fox, for posting Carolanne Pegg's song that uses this refrain. A good one. I'm curious about the tune now...and how many more songs will turn up that use this chorus... |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: Sue the Borderer Date: 29 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM Thanks for the info about Martinmas/Michaelmas, Paul. Maybe, since I dance with Rattlejag Morris from your part of the country (even though I live in Devon) I will revert to singing Martinmas. Sue |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: Mr Fox Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM Peregrina - Found it! (Didn't take me as long as I expected!) Here goes - Mouse and the Crow Carolanne Pegg One for the mouse and one for the crow, One for to rot and one for to grow Big fat bird flying high I'll get there by and by. Little old lady, broom nearby, Keeping cobwebs away from her eye, But the cat's got the bacon, rat's got the rind, I'll stay blind if you don't mind. Tonight we'll dance, tonight we'll sing, Tonight we'll do most anything. So clap those hands, shake those bones, Tap those toes, I'm coming home. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The tune is an odd mix of folk and country (kind of square and morris dance)with a jig to close. |
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman) From: GUEST,vectis Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:01 AM Is there a recording or midi out there? I know the chorus but have forgotton the tune for the blooming verse. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: peregrina Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:18 AM Mr Fox, thanks, yes, I'd be very interested--and that makes me think now that there are three or more songs that use a version of these lines. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Hamish Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:55 AM Fab song which I heard at Banbury a couple of weeks ago and immediately put high on the must-learn list. And now with the words (thank you, Paul!) there's no excuse! Except... there are a lot of words, aren't there? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:23 AM I first heard it from Bernard Miles, a comedy (rural character) EP called "Over the gate", c. 1961. Jon Bartlett |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Mr Fox Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM From: peregrina Date: 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There was a song on Carolanne Pegg's one and only solo album that had the chorus One for the mouse, one for the crow One for to rot and one for to grow I have the CD somewhere and can look up the verses if you wish, Peregrina. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Paul Davenport Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:00 AM The reason we sing 'Martinmas' instead of 'Michaelmas' is a cultural thing. Where we come from, a little further north than Mike, the hirings at Martinmas were the commencement of the early ploughing. The tradition of plough-lads dancing in the villages of East Yorkshire also occurred at this feast. (There's nothing in the song that's overtly regional apart from the title) We altered the word because it feels more 'comfortable'. Thanks for singing it to such an appreciative crowd Sue, the song deserves all the support it can get. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: GUEST,JimP Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:50 AM This line was used on "I Say No" on the In Harmony's Way CD. I'm sorry, but I don't remember who sang lead on this one, possibly Kim Hughes? Anyway, from the IHW website: I Say No Preacher man wanna save my soul an' a He say "Hellfire!", I say "No," an' a He say "Give!" an' a I say "Go!" an' a He say "Hurry-up!" an' a I say "No," an' a How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a (4 times) Auction man in a 'bacca row an' a He say high an' a I say low an' a He say three an' a I say fo' an' a He say two an' a I say no an' a Purty woman make you walk the flo' make you Beg fo' mercy make you, beg fo' mo' an' a She say "Come on Daddy" I say "Go!" an' a She say "Please?" an' a I say no an' a Plantin' time an' a water's low an' a They say "Give it up" an' a I say "No, I'll plant One fo' de cutworm an' a one fo' de crow an' a One fo' de squirrell an' a one gon' grow!" an' a Weight down, weight down a-han-a (3 times) Weight down me, an' a How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a How somebody gonna weight down me? Listen: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/inharmonysway |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Folkiedave Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:47 AM Mike is Damien's father. Craig Morgan Rbbson also perform it. It is on their latest CD Hummingbird's Feather (Reiver REcords RVRCD10) They add Mike's grandfather was a teamsman at Guist in Norfolk, hence the title. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Leadfingers Date: 24 Apr 10 - 07:30 PM When the query was first posted , I was wracking my tiny brain trying to remember where I had heard it recently ! Damien Barber at Maidenhead of course ! And what anexcellent evening it was ! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Sue the Borderer Date: 24 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM Hi MuddleC Yes, it was me singing The Guist Ploughman at Crediton. The song grabbed me in exactly the same way when I first hear Paul and Liz Davenport sing it. I wouldn't let them leave the building until they'd sold me their CD. I sing the words much as Paul has written them out above, though I realised recently that Mike Barber actually sings Michaelmas (rather than Martinmas)so I've changed to that. I had to rush off on Sunday cos I was running some morris at the Ring o' Bells.... Sue |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Jim Dixon Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:04 PM A few more: From Documents of the Assembly of the State of New York, Volume 11, 1874, page 299: The number of kernels in a hill may be designated thus:
One for the cut-worm, and one to grow. Monthly Packet of Evening Readings, Volume 19, (London: Mozley and Smith, 1875), page 213: —and the rule for sowing is,
One to rot, and one to grow' Annual Report of the Secretary of the State Board of Agriculture ..., Volume 19 (Lansing: State of Michigan, 1880), page 148: I do not believe in the old rhyme—
One for the crow, One to get mouldy And one to grow." Work and Leisure: The Englishwoman's Advertiser, Reporter and Gazette, Vol. 7 (London: Hatchards, 1882), page 211: The old farming adage—
One to rot, and one to grow,' Gardeners' Chronicle, Vol. 8 (London: Haymarket Pub., 1890), page 686 There is an old country saying—
One to rot, and one to grow, One for the pigeon, and one for the crow." |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: peregrina Date: 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Herga Kitty Date: 20 Apr 10 - 02:38 AM Snuffy - Paul posted the words, above.... Kitty |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: MuddleC Date: 19 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM That's right, it was Sue...I was too busy listening to the song to take notes!!! and she wizzed away early to boot! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Snuffy Date: 19 Apr 10 - 06:57 PM It was Sue the Borderer who sang it at the Mudgather. I know, 'cos I was there. Try a PM to her for the words. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Apr 10 - 06:26 PM Sue the Borderer sings it (and was at the Mudgather at Crediton), and so do Capstan Full Strength (who sang it at the Banbury Song & Ale the previous weekend). And also Craig, Morgan, Robson, who sang it when they guested at Herga last month - I had a little discussion with Carolyn at the interval on the subject of singing parents who are also now known as the parents of famous singing children (Damien, in Mike's case, and the Tabbush sisters in Carolyn's case). Kitty |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN (Mike Barber) From: Paul Davenport Date: 19 Apr 10 - 04:45 PM The song is called, 'The Guist Ploughman' by Mike Barber of Fakenham, Norfolk. We recorded it on our album, 'Songbooks' HATRACD02 in 2008. Great song and one that deserves a lot of singing. THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN (Mike Barber © 2003) Grandfather was a teamsman true and bold Loved his horses more than gold He would tend them night and day For the sake of the harvest he would say One for the rook, one for the crow One to die and one to grow One for the rook, one for the crow One to die and one to grow When Martinmas comes the year turns round Time to till the stubbled ground He could plough an acre in a day But he'd walk eleven miles and say When winter's o'er it's harrowing time Break the clods down nice and fine Make a bed for the seed to grow And a mawkin stands to scare the crow There's a boy who walks around the field Turn the rattle, increase the yield If we catch him sleeping through the day Twist his lug and dock his pay Now the corn is ripe for the harvest mow Round with the reaper binder go Sails set tight the sheaves to bind Stook them up the ears to dry The stack's growing high all in the yard Carting always seems damned hard Keep them corners tight and square So it stands till the old drum gets round here The thresher is driven by steam this year Plenty of dust so bring on the beer Corn's in the sack all to be ground And once more the year turns round Here's one for the rook, one for the crow Success to the seed that lived to grow We'll be around at a number of festivals through the year and would be happy to sing it to your hearts content. Visit our website for gig list http://www.hallamtrads.co.uk good singing Paul |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: peregrina Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:29 PM refresh--yes, OP, I realize you wanted to know the song with those words--I know of it, but couldn't find it on my first search. Maybe someone else will know it. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: peregrina Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM here How to sow Beans. 'One for the mouse, One for the crow, One to rot, One to grow.' [1850 Notes & Queries 1st Ser. II. 515] 'Kernels,' said Pa. 'Four kernels. ‥One for the blackbird, One for the crow, And that will leave Just two to grow.' [1941 L. I. Wilder Little Town on Prairie ii.] Careful farmers‥sow their seed broadcast, saying: One for wind and one for crow One to die and one to grow. [1961 N. Lofts House at Old Vine i. 34] |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: peregrina Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:01 PM The phrase is derived from an old widely disseminated planting rhyme. I've seen a version in George Ewart Evans' book Ask the Men who Cut the Hay (where it's said of 'corn', ie wheat to Americans). There's a version on an American seed catalog website where it's called a corn-planting (ie maize-planting to UK-ians) rhyme: "One for the cutworm, one for the crow, one to rot, and one to grow" ...and no doubt many others. The hard life of knowing you couldn't eat, or use as feed, the seeds what you planted, but that pests would. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: MuddleC Date: 19 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM -might be called 'Four seeds in a row' |
Subject: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow From: MuddleC Date: 19 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM Howdy surfers! Heard a song sang down at the Crediton Folk Fest this weekend just gone and I wannit! Chorus goes: One for the Rook, one for the Crow, One to whither, one to grow.... over to you sluthes, sloths and fonts of knowlege..the game is afoot! |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |